[lace] Re: Question

[Maria Greil]

Many thank to the 3 persons that helped me in finding out bout the Urling's
lace.
Now I am a lot wiser !!!

Maria
a German living in Spain

El vie., 13 mar. 2020 a las 22:42, Maria Greil ()
escribió:

> Can anybody help me ?
> I just read an article in an old magazine (The Ladies' Monthly Museum,
> August 1822, pg. 109 - The Mirror of Fashion) and a kind of lace is
> mentioned several times I do not know: *Urling's lace*.
> Since the publication is English and there are a lot of arachne-members
> from the UK, would it be possible that someone from there could tell me?
> Lots of thanks in advance for your kind support.
>
> Maria Greil
> a German living in Spain
> (where we struggle now with the virus)
>
>
>

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Dear Adele,

I have read about the use of a little scrap of fabric or bag used to hold
the finished lace while you are still working. Apparently it was typically
dark blue to keep the lace bright white (an old laundress's trick, add blue
dye to your whites). Perhaps dark blue could appear black in a shadowy
painting?
Very interesting indeed!

Best,
Elena

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Devon Thein]

Dear Adele,
That is a very interesting idea. Looking closely at the Old Lacemaker and
the "attributed to Gabriel Metsu" paintings, it appears that they have
something like you describe on them too.
Devon


>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2019, at 9:56 AM, Devon Thein  wrote:
>
> I have no idea what purpose the black appendage on the top of the pillow
> serves. It doesn't look like the sort of thing that you wind finished lace
> on, or protect finished lace in.
>
>
>

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Adele Shaak]

Hi Devon:
I’ve taken a look at this weird little thing in extreme closeup. If it’s a
decoration it is odd that it is completely plain. I am struck by the fact that
it is in line with the pricking, and it covers the space between the top of
the pricking and the drawer opening, and I wonder if it could be just a piece
of cloth (it’s not black, more of a dark green, maybe a piece of velvet?)
meant to cover the completed lace from the time it leaves the pricking until
it reaches the safety of the little drawer.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)



> On Sep 4, 2019, at 9:56 AM, Devon Thein  wrote:
>
> I have no idea what purpose the black appendage on the top of the pillow
> serves. It doesn't look like the sort of thing that you wind finished lace
> on, or protect finished lace in.

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Devon Thein]

Interestingly, it seems Maes used exactly the same pillow in his painting
of the Old Lacemaker in the Mauritshaus Museum.
https://www.mauritshuis.nl/en/explore/the-collection/artworks/the-old-lacemak
er-1101/#
  Perhaps it was a family possession? The pillow is the same even to the
hanging scissors. But, the Old Lacemaker appears to be using a stand,
whereas the Met's lacemaker clearly is not. Also, interesting, the Old
Lacemaker is wearing glasses!

There is another Maes painting in the National Gallery of Canada that looks
like it may rely on the same pillow, this time used on a table.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nicolaes_Maes,_Lacemaker.JPG

Also in the Fine Arts Museum in Belgium there is a similar pillow in
painting by Maes of a Dozing Old Woman.
https://www.fine-arts-museum.be/nl/de-collectie/nicolaes-maes-ingedutte-oude-
vrouw?artist=maes-nicolaes-1

In the Guildhall Gallery in London there is another Maes, of a Woman
Sewing. She appears to have the same lace pillow but from another angle.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nicolaes_Maes,_Young_Woman_Sewing,_16
55.jpg

Also there is a painting in the Kunsthistorische Museum “attributed to
Gabriel Metsu” that looks quite similar.
https://www.khm.at/objektdb/detail/1215/


Devon


>>

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[The Lace Bee]

Elana

I used to dress up as the lacemaker in this painting.

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30098126

Sent from my iPad

> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I have a question about lace pillows in the 17th century Dutch Republic
>> that I hope you can help me with.
>> 
>> I'm giving a talk at the end of the week on lacemaking in Holland in the
>> 17th century, focusing mainly around Nicolaes Maes's 1656 portrait "The
>> Lacemaker" (as seen at the link).
>> 

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Devon Thein]

Debbie Stoller,
I would say that the pillows are not exactly the same because the one you
show has a "lectern-like" base, a term I have now read in the English
translation of the bobbin and pillow book which I would not have remembered
that I have had Diane not mentioned it. The pillow in the Maes painting
seems to me entirely flat on the bottom. Also it is more deeply curved,
almost like a bolster cut in half. I think the one in the painting that you
sent would be easier to work on.
Devon


>

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Debbie Stoller]

This lady has the same exact kind of half-circle pillow:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/79/a7/dd79a713eed7a7ddc027022a2535c972.jpg



> On Sep 4, 2019, at 12:56 PM, Devon Thein  wrote:
>
> Dear Elena,
> There is a book, Kloppel, Kissen, Stander about pillows, bobbins and
> stands. Unfortunately it is in German. It does not have a pillow exactly
> like this one, although there are similar ones. The book, as far as I can
> tell physically describes the photos of the pillows and I don't think there
> is a lot of description beyond what is available to the eye. Interestingly,
> most of the Belgian pillows, which this resembles, have stands, as does the
> pillow in Vermeer's Lacemaker. Years ago, I was in a class with Maria
> Provencher. Someone did not have a stand and she suggested that they hold
> the pillow in their lap and put a stool under their feet, saying that this
> was how the Belgian lacemakers often worked and that it was a very
> comfortable position that they could hold for hours. I cannot tell if the
> lacemaker has a small stool under her feet. Perhaps you can tell from the
> painting. I think she might.
> I can't really read the text in the book, but I can try to describe the
> pillow in the painting. I invite others to correct this description or to
> add to it.
> I would say:the pillow is a nicely decorated version of a utilitarian
> object. Perhaps it was a special gift.  As you can see from the painting,
> there is a drawer in it (facing the viewer) that can be used to store tools
> and other objects, although the worker seems to have her scissors suspended
> from the pillow or her dress, undoubtedly signalling that they are used
> more than any other tool. The pillow is sloped on either side and maybe
> also on the part closest to the worker. The allows gravity to assist in the
> tensioning of the threads.  Although the worker appears to be making a
> straight border, she is not using a roller for her work surface. Presumably
> she will have to move the work up from time to time, which seems a little
> bit cumbersome. I don't know if they didn't have roller pillows in this era
> or if the artist thought it would be a less effective painting. It looks to
> me as though she is trying to shorten the thread on her bobbin, possibly by
> using a pin to loosen the hitch on the bobbin so that she can roll the
> thread onto it, turning the bobbin toward the pillow. I expect that she
> uses the continental way of winding the bobbins, which is what I use. So,
> she would hold the bobbin that way when shortening, turning it horizontally
> the opposite way when lengthening it.
> The bobbins are bulbed bobbins which are common on the continent, verses
> the straight spangled bobbins of the English. Bulbed bobbins allow the
> worker to tension easily by tugging the bobbin slightly when ever she picks
> it up.
> I have no idea what purpose the black appendage on the top of the pillow
> serves. It doesn't look like the sort of thing that you wind finished lace
> on, or protect finished lace in. Maybe it is simply decorative?
> What have I left out or gotten wrong?
> Devon
>
>
>>
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Devon Thein]

Dear Elena,
There is a book, Kloppel, Kissen, Stander about pillows, bobbins and
stands. Unfortunately it is in German. It does not have a pillow exactly
like this one, although there are similar ones. The book, as far as I can
tell physically describes the photos of the pillows and I don't think there
is a lot of description beyond what is available to the eye. Interestingly,
most of the Belgian pillows, which this resembles, have stands, as does the
pillow in Vermeer's Lacemaker. Years ago, I was in a class with Maria
Provencher. Someone did not have a stand and she suggested that they hold
the pillow in their lap and put a stool under their feet, saying that this
was how the Belgian lacemakers often worked and that it was a very
comfortable position that they could hold for hours. I cannot tell if the
lacemaker has a small stool under her feet. Perhaps you can tell from the
painting. I think she might.
I can't really read the text in the book, but I can try to describe the
pillow in the painting. I invite others to correct this description or to
add to it.
I would say:the pillow is a nicely decorated version of a utilitarian
object. Perhaps it was a special gift.  As you can see from the painting,
there is a drawer in it (facing the viewer) that can be used to store tools
and other objects, although the worker seems to have her scissors suspended
from the pillow or her dress, undoubtedly signalling that they are used
more than any other tool. The pillow is sloped on either side and maybe
also on the part closest to the worker. The allows gravity to assist in the
tensioning of the threads.  Although the worker appears to be making a
straight border, she is not using a roller for her work surface. Presumably
she will have to move the work up from time to time, which seems a little
bit cumbersome. I don't know if they didn't have roller pillows in this era
or if the artist thought it would be a less effective painting. It looks to
me as though she is trying to shorten the thread on her bobbin, possibly by
using a pin to loosen the hitch on the bobbin so that she can roll the
thread onto it, turning the bobbin toward the pillow. I expect that she
uses the continental way of winding the bobbins, which is what I use. So,
she would hold the bobbin that way when shortening, turning it horizontally
the opposite way when lengthening it.
The bobbins are bulbed bobbins which are common on the continent, verses
the straight spangled bobbins of the English. Bulbed bobbins allow the
worker to tension easily by tugging the bobbin slightly when ever she picks
it up.
I have no idea what purpose the black appendage on the top of the pillow
serves. It doesn't look like the sort of thing that you wind finished lace
on, or protect finished lace in. Maybe it is simply decorative?
What have I left out or gotten wrong?
Devon


>
>

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Re: [lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Maria Greil]

Hello Elena,

The only information I could find is a book in German, which was edited in
2002, about the collection of (Hannelore Schulte of) old lace pillows in
Europe. I am sending a picture of the cover page to you privately.
I wish you the very best of success regarding your talk

Regards,
Maria Greil
a German lace maker living in Spain

El mié., 4 sept. 2019 a las 18:10, Elena Kanagy-Loux (<
enkanagyl...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a question about lace pillows in the 17th century Dutch Republic
> that I hope you can help me with.
>
> I'm giving a talk at the end of the week on lacemaking in Holland in the
> 17th century, focusing mainly around Nicolaes Maes's 1656 portrait "The
> Lacemaker" (as seen at the link).
>
>
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/436932?=All
y=Relevance=the+lacemaker=0=20pos=1
>
>
> Although I have combed through several books that discuss global bobbin
> pillow types (such as Gertrude Whiting's Tools and Toys of Stitchery) there
> is not much information on Dutch pillows.The pillow pictured appears to be
> similar to one of the Belgian pillows pictured in Whiting's book, which
> makes sense, but there is not much detail about it. It is certainly I type
> I have seen depicted but not described often.
>
> Can anyone point me towards more specific information?
>
> Thank you very much!
> All the Best,
> Elena
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

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[lace] Dutch Lace Pillow Question

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about lace pillows in the 17th century Dutch Republic
that I hope you can help me with.

I'm giving a talk at the end of the week on lacemaking in Holland in the
17th century, focusing mainly around Nicolaes Maes's 1656 portrait "The
Lacemaker" (as seen at the link).
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/436932?=All=Relevance=the+lacemaker=0=20pos=1


Although I have combed through several books that discuss global bobbin
pillow types (such as Gertrude Whiting's Tools and Toys of Stitchery) there
is not much information on Dutch pillows.The pillow pictured appears to be
similar to one of the Belgian pillows pictured in Whiting's book, which
makes sense, but there is not much detail about it. It is certainly I type
I have seen depicted but not described often.

Can anyone point me towards more specific information?

Thank you very much!
All the Best,
Elena

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Thanks Bobbi. and I also have the diagrams attached. I will print your
message with the diagrams to keep for future reference.

Karen in Malta


>
>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Thanks for the reply.
Karen in Malta


>
>

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Re: Re[7]: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

To help: At the top of the first page, beside the tab Albums, see the tab
Photostream.

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 1:54 PM  wrote:

> Are you all looking at the photostream in Arachne's flickr account?
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/  On my screen they show up as
> the first two photographs.  I did not add them to Bobbi's album
>
> Sue
>
> suebabbs...@gmail.com
>
> --
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>
-- 
Sent from my iPod

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Re[7]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Are you all looking at the photostream in Arachne's flickr account?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/  On my screen they show up as
the first two photographs.  I did not add them to Bobbi's album

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

--

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Re[5]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Bobbi's diagrams are on the photostream of our Flickr site

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

The link for this is shown at the foot of all Arachne emails.  No
password is needed to see this site

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

-- Original Message --
From: "Lorri Ferguson" 
To: "suebabbs...@gmail.com" 
Sent: 6/23/2019 1:07:32 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re[2]: [lace] Lassen question

>I was unable to see "Bobbi's diagrams", can you give a 'link' to where
>they are & send it privately?
>
>Lorri Ferguson
>  lorri...@msn.com
>
>

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[lace] Lassen question

[Alice Howell]

The overlapped section will not fray.  With every millimeter  of the lace 
threads tightly wrapped, there's no way any of the threads can move.  If a 
thread gets cut, then it would loosen, but that's an extreme case.  Normal use 
will not loosen it.

The first time you do it, it is a bit scary to cut off the two ends. Just do it 
very carefully -- one thread at a time.

As Bobbi said, choosing the pathway to sew across the lace is important.  You 
want to use a solid line, not open work. It's sort of like selecting a place on 
a pattern to start -- along the edge of the design. Whether you are 
overlapping, or tying and sewing in ends, the finishing method is best hidden 
along design edges.

Alice in Oregon

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Kathleen Harris]

The stitching is very close and tight, so I think there is no chance of fraying 
 over time, as long as the treatment of the lace is reasonably gentle as it 
always should be.

Kathleen, in a hot and humid Berkshire, UK, expecting thunder any minute!

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Jun 2019, at 12:32, Karen ZM  wrote:
> 
> Interesting to follow the discussion on lassen.
> 
> What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
> of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
> not have a frayed edge)?
> 
> Karen in Malta
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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Fw: Re: Re[2]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Bobbi's diagrams are now posted on the arachne flickr site.  Go to link
at bottom of email to see them

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen 2.jpg]

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bobbi Donnelly]

Good morning Karen and everyone else.
I've been watching this and have finally decided to jump in.
Karen, attached is a photo/diagram. Starting at #1 you make the piece of 
lace.
You finish at #2. (ha ha... can  you tell I do a lot of Tonder? footside on 
the left)
You over lap the two ends to match up exactly. You then basically whip 
stitch
both layers together doing three whip stitches on EVERY pair of the top and 
bottom
layer, moving from the footside to the head side and then back to the foot 
side.
This way you have a good place to hide those ends of your whipping thread.
This is a firm enough connection (not sure how well it holds up to lots of 
washing?)
Then you cut off the loose ends of lace.
If you physically put your hands together in front of you
lay your wrists back to back (palms facing up and down) the wrist area is 
what
you are sewing together. Once it's sewn you cut off the hands.
However, before you start the whole process you must decide where you are 
going to do
that join. Start above that join (this doesn't have to be pretty as you are 
going to cut
it off) and the 'rule' is to do one repeat above and one repeat below the 
join. (see lassen 2)
I have always used the finest thread I can get my hands on because I want 
the
join to be as close to invisible as possible. Doing three wraps around each 
pair
thickens up the area so the finer the better in my mind. Another thing to 
consider
is areas that are easier to do that join in. Avoid half stitch areas like 
the plague.
Linen is not much better. Ground is the best and around or along a gimp line 
is
also good.
I really do like this technique although it is not (as far as I know) 
attached to
a particular type of lace. I would also suggest that you try it with a 
thinner
piece of torchon lace first to get the hang of it. Flanders lends itself to 
this
and I have had much success with it there.
Does this make sense or just muddy the water further?
Good luck!
bobbi
===
What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
not have a frayed edge)?

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen 2.jpg]

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Interesting to follow the discussion on lassen.

What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
not have a frayed edge)?

Karen in Malta

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Ann Bucks book on the Thomas Lester laces shows many Bedfordshire designs
with turned corners, dating from the last half of the 19th century. I have
seen Tonder patterns with turned corners, but have no way to date the
examples. So I am not sure if they are 19th or 20th century, but they do
contain the same problems as designing corners for Bucks -- the flattened
grid for the ground. 
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

Pam Nottingham was emphatic that she and her students were the first to
design flat corners for edging handkerchiefs, in the mid-twentieth C. She
must have meant only Bucks 

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[lynrbailey]

My bad, forgot to edit.  Lashing myself with a wet noodle as I type.  lrb


"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[lynrbailey]

I agree with whomever said 'lash' to tie or fasten together tightly and firmly, 
Cambridge English Dictionary.

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where the weather couldn't be better.  Sunny, 
breeze, comfortable.


"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."


-Original Message-
>From: Lorelei Halley 
>Sent: Jun 22, 2019 6:12 PM
>To: 'Bev Walker' , 'Gon Homburg' 
>Cc: 'Adele Shaak' , 'lacelijst -' 
>Subject: RE: [lace] Lassen question
>
>???Lasso, as in attach a cow to a rope???   ???  Lassen, as in tie a
>lace to itself???
>
>-
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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Jane --  As I understand it the technique of attaching strips of Chantilly
or other laces together, to make a large object, is called "point de
raccroc" (spelling??)  It attempts to imitate the same thread path as the
ground, but there is no overlap. Lassen overlaps the end of the lace onto
the beginning.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

Is this the name that is used for the stitching to attach bands of Chantilly
together to form the really big shawls? Or does that have another name?
  
  
  


 From: "Bev Walker" 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 12:31 PM
To: "Gon Homburg" 
Cc: "Adele Shaak" , "lacelijst -" 
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question   
Then I wasn't far off the mark after all.
Thanks for the background information. Lassen and lace are "tied together"
in origin.
I like words.
Bev in Shirley BC Canada

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Flanders also uses lassen.


-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de
Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"?   Nancy, did you see
any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos.

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

It's called point de racroc, and is quite a different technique--it doesn't
overlap the two pieces at all but sews in a thread between the two pieces
of net that follows a path that connects the two pieces as if they were one
piece of net. In lassen, the sewing thread whips around the bars of the net
in the overlap area and will inevitably make a thicker area of net.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 16:26 jviking @sover.net  wrote:

> Is this the name that is used for the stitching to attach bands of
> Chantilly together to form the really big shawls? Or does that have
> another
> name?
>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

"racroc" maybe, I think?
Yes it does have a different name.
ok, found it in Alex Stillwell's dictionary. Point de rac(c)roc or Point de
raccroche



On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 1:26 PM jviking @sover.net 
wrote:

> Is this the name that is used for the stitching to attach bands of
> Chantilly together to form the really big shawls? Or does that have
> another
> name?
>


-- 
Bev where the sun is shining through the sea fog in Shirley BC, near Sooke
on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[jviking @sover.net]

Is this the name that is used for the stitching to attach bands of 
Chantilly together to form the really big shawls? Or does that have another 
name?
  
 Thanks, Jane in Vermont USA where it is gorgeous!
 jvik...@sover.net
  
  
  


 From: "Bev Walker" 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 12:31 PM
To: "Gon Homburg" 
Cc: "Adele Shaak" , "lacelijst -" 
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question   
Then I wasn't far off the mark after all.
Thanks for the background information. Lassen and lace are "tied together"
in origin.
I like words.
Bev in Shirley BC Canada

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

Then I wasn't far off the mark after all.
Thanks for the background information. Lassen and lace are "tied together"
in origin.
I like words.
Bev in Shirley BC Canada

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 8:57 AM Gon Homburg  wrote:

> The etymology of the dutch word ‘lassen’ is:
> From Middle Dutch  lasschen
>

>  (“to join together”). Further etymology is unclear, but probably
> borrowed from Old French  lacer
>  (“to tie”).
>
--
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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Gon Homburg]

The etymology of the dutch word ‘lassen’ is:
>From Middle Dutch  lasschen

(“to join together”). Further etymology is unclear, but probably borrowed
from Old French  lacer
 (“to tie”).
Best regards
Gon Homburg, Amsterdam, The Netherlands



> Op 17 jun. 2019, om 17:41 heeft Adele Shaak  het volgende
geschreven:
>
> I always think of the word “lash” as in “lash together”
>
> Adele
>
>> Possibly the logic for offering the term "weld" is that two pieces of
>> It would be interesting to know the etymology of "lassen" - maybe has a
>> Latin origin. "Lasso" comes to mind, as also the root word of "lace" but I
>> could be over-thinking!
>> Bev in Shirley BC Canada
>
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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Adele Shaak]

I always think of the word “lash” as in “lash together”

Adele

> Possibly the logic for offering the term "weld" is that two pieces of
> It would be interesting to know the etymology of "lassen" - maybe has a
> Latin origin. "Lasso" comes to mind, as also the root word of "lace" but I
> could be over-thinking!
> Bev in Shirley BC Canada

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

Possibly the logic for offering the term "weld" is that two pieces of
something are joined together (in some way) to look like one.
Sew together is more relevant.

It would be interesting to know the etymology of "lassen" - maybe has a
Latin origin. "Lasso" comes to mind, as also the root word of "lace" but I
could be over-thinking!
Bev in Shirley BC Canada

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 6:26 AM Gon Homburg  wrote:

> Hi Jane,
>
> I think there is no translation of “lassen” used for lace in one word.
You
> could translate it as sew together.
>
--
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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Gon Homburg]

Hi Jane,

I think there is no translation of “lassen” used for lace in one word. You 
could translate it as sew together. You are sewing one end of the lace to the 
other, just as you do with welding of metal pieces. The big difference is that 
welding is done between two ends of metals and the sewing together or lassen of 
lace is done by making an extra repeat in other to overlap and than sen 
together on the best possible spot, so that the sewing is invisible when the 
overlap is cut away.

Best regards

Gon Homburg, Amsterdam, The Netherlands



> Op 16 jun. 2019, om 23:54 heeft Jane  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> Hi Helen,
> 
> After reading your email, I was curious enough to look on line and there 
> appears to be a course at the Kantcentrum
> 
> "Lassen en innaaien van kant"
> 
> G**gle translates the course description as:
> 
> Welding and sewing in lace
> We end one side. Welding and sewing is the complete finishing of a edge.
> The edge must be welded and fabric sewn with a lace for a square edge and an 
> incrustation for a circle.
> This gives a nicely finished edge.
> 
> Welding lace?!! Maybe someone can come up with a better translation?
> 
> If you want to find out more, the course is at the end of July
> https://www.kantcentrum.eu/en/summer-courses/lassen-en-innaaien-van-kant
> 
> Best wishes,
> Jane Read
> New Forest, UK
> 
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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

Hello Helen and everyone

The neat join called "lassen" is really effective. I followed the
instruction in the Book of Flanders by Niven; equipment required is one
very short, very fine needle, a pair of finely-pointed scissors, and a
joining thread that exactly matches the shade of the lace thread, and --->
two... counts finer. Not difficult to find. I have not seen anything about
6 times finer, maybe the scholarly booklet "Het Lassen" offers some
information.

"Lassen" worked for me, joining over the first and last repeats of a
circular edging in Flanders lace, and for a Binche lace hanky, joining
along one of the sides. Somebody mentioned corners. I do not think "lassen"
is done at a corner. I have seen mitred joins, but not the overlap join at
a corner.

Hope this helps.

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 1:11 AM H M Clarke  wrote:

>  Was there some secret extra-fine thread ...
>
> --
Bev cool in the fog of in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver
Island, west coast of Canada

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

When I blow up the photos to be able to see the path of the thread as it
whipped around bars in the net, it looks to me like the thread used for the
join is the same thread that was used to make the lace. It's certainly not
significantly finer.

Nancy

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 7:05 PM Devon Thein  wrote:.

> ... What do you think about the thread size?
>
>>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

Adele,

I'm thinking that a lassen technique might have developed when flat corners
meant one no longer had the gathers at the corners in which to hide the
seam. That's why I've asked in my last post if the seam is indeed in a
gathered part in handerkerchiefs with gathered corners. In handkerchiefs
with flat corners, I was trying to date the ones with drafted corners by
what I had understood from Pam Nottingham (but I'm convinced now that she
was talking only about point ground laces), because if the development of
lassen occurred because drafted corners took away the place to hide the
seam, dating drafted corners would tell us whether lassen was a recent
development or not.

So you are quite correct that lassen is whipping together an overlapped
section with matching pattern, but when and why lassen was developed might
have something to do with the occurrence of flat corners instead of
gathered corners. That's the association I see.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 6:44 PM Adele Shaak  wrote:

> My understanding is that lassen is used when the end of a pattern overlaps
> the beginning; and the patterns therefore match. This would have nothing to
> do with corners; it would be done in the one place in the lace piece where
> the end overlapped the beginning. So, if you were making a hankie that had
> drafted corners, you would work all the way around the pattern and then an
> inch or two past where you started so you can overlap and lassen it
> together.
> ...

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Devon Thein]

I put up on laceioli.ning the phtos of 63.196.17. Also, I did find some
lassen. One is dated about 1800, which I am somewhat doubtful about. The
other is joined lappets dated early 19th century. But, I would expect that
if they were joined it was somewhat later than the date of the lappets,
since lappet wearers didn't wear them joined. What do you think about the
thread size?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Adele Shaak]

My understanding is that lassen is used when the end of a pattern overlaps the 
beginning; and the patterns therefore match. This would have nothing to do with 
corners; it would be done in the one place in the lace piece where the end 
overlapped the beginning. So, if you were making a hankie that had drafted 
corners, you would work all the way around the pattern and then an inch or two 
past where you started so you can overlap and lassen it together.

It looks to me from the hankie Devon has put up on Ning, and the way the 
pattern continues straight around, that they had a long straight piece of lace 
edging, and that was folded back on itself to create the 90 degree corners. If 
it were me I would have sewn the lace seam in place before I cut the triangle 
off, and then overstitched the cut ends. I can’t say for sure that is the way 
this one was made, but I am struck with how perfectly lined up the threads are, 
just before they hit the seam, so I don’t think the lace was cut first and sewn 
later. (still nothing to do with Lassen, I know).

Hope this helps. It would be interesting to look at things like doily edgings, 
picture frames, and the like, to find use of the lassen technique. I seem to 
recall seeing it used on a piece of Tonder; I think the technique  would be 
useful for many different lace types.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Devon Thein  wrote:
> 
> < the Met and tell us how the joins are made.>>
> Funny you should ask. I was looking at one of the binche handkerchiefs from
> Princess Alice of Monaco, 63.196.6. The joins are in the corners and they
> do not use lassen, although they are very skillfully done. I have posted
> photos of the four corners on
> http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history?xg_source=activity the
> laceioli.ning site in identification/history. The handkerchief dates from
> 1888-1902 based on the monogram which changed when the owner became
> divorced.
> I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de
> Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"?   Nancy, did you see
> any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos.

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

Devon,

Quite a few of the handkerchiefs that were donated by the Duchesse de
Richelieu, in memory of the Princess Alice of Monaco, in 1963, were of
interest, largely because I couldn't see an obvious join in most of them.
Several had flat corners: e.g., 63.196.17.  In the ones with gathered
corners, I'd be interested again in the join and if it was "hidden" in the
gathers: e.g., 63.196.3.  I noted the accession numbers of several others
in that donation as ones to look at, but stopped making detailed notes
because I couldn't tell much from the photos: 63.196.2, 63.196.1,
63.196.16.  Others not in that donation: 59.62.7, 41.14.16, 08.47.27,
54.94.3, and 41.14.15.

The one that impressed me out of that batch donated was 63.196.12, a
figural Binche, but there the join was obvious (I think).

Your photos on ning IOLI are very good. That piece was one I had noted, and
thought it looked like the corners all had a seam.

Some of the needle lace handkerchiefs are quite distracting. :-) I really
regret being totally unable to do satisfactory needle lace.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA


On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 5:55 PM Devon Thein  wrote:

> ...Nancy, did you see any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have
> photos.
>
>>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Devon Thein]

<>
Funny you should ask. I was looking at one of the binche handkerchiefs from
Princess Alice of Monaco, 63.196.6. The joins are in the corners and they
do not use lassen, although they are very skillfully done. I have posted
photos of the four corners on
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history?xg_source=activity the
laceioli.ning site in identification/history. The handkerchief dates from
1888-1902 based on the monogram which changed when the owner became
divorced.
I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de
Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"?   Nancy, did you see
any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos.

Devon
Vis a vis Pam Nottingham. If you are doing Bucks it is quite difficult to
do a corner because there is a grid and it is not a 90 degree angle, so
perhaps she and her students did invent a way of handling this grid
disassociation by inserting a motif in the center of the corner to muddy
that issue. Corners in needle lace or Milanese would not present that
problem. Sometimes  you see chalice covers or patten covers with corners in
these laces.

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

I guess I have to confess that I believed a source and shouldn't have, or I
totally misunderstood her: Pam Nottingham was emphatic that she and her
students were the first to design flat corners for edging handkerchiefs, in
the mid-twentieth C. She must have meant only Bucks because I've just
surveyed handkerchiefs in the Met's on-line catalog, and there are lots of
flat corners from the 19th C but in other types of lace. I saw only a
couple of joins, but the pictures aren't detailed enough to tell whether
there are joins hidden in the gathered part around a corner.

Go to  https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/  and put in
"Handkerchief lace". (without the quotes) Lots of the pieces that come up
in the 121 hits are needle lace but there are some really gorgeous pieces
so not painful to look at as you look through for the bobbin lace.

I think we need to assign Devon to look at all the bobbin lace ones in the
Met and tell us how the joins are made.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA


On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 2:49 PM N.A. Neff  wrote:

> I have few older handkerchiefs so I'm like Devon -- I can't say for sure,
> but I think in the ones I have that have gathered corners, there's a quite
> visible join. (They are in storage but I will try to dig them out soon.) I
> do know that the flat corners are a recent development (i.e., starting in
> the mid-20th C), and I agree with Devon, I think lassen may be a recent
> development dating from trying to make a continuous flat circular or square
> edging -- i.e., no older than mid-20th C. If this is true then there would
> be finer thread available (although I'm not sure about the 6-times finer),
> because modern straight lace edging is typically worked not much finer than
> about 140/2 Egyptian cotton, and there's 185/2 Egyptian cotton readily
> available, and I even saw 210/2 Egyptian cotton somewhere recently.
>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[N.A. Neff]

I have few older handkerchiefs so I'm like Devon -- I can't say for sure,
but I think in the ones I have that have gathered corners, there's a quite
visible join. (They are in storage but I will try to dig them out soon.) I
do know that the flat corners are a recent development (i.e., starting in
the mid-20th C), and I agree with Devon, I think lassen may be a recent
development dating from trying to make a continuous flat circular or square
edging -- i.e., no older than mid-20th C. If this is true then there would
be finer thread available (although I'm not sure about the 6-times finer),
because modern straight lace edging is typically worked not much finer than
about 140/2 Egyptian cotton, and there's 185/2 Egyptian cotton readily
available, and I even saw 210/2 Egyptian cotton somewhere recently.

This needs a little research I'd say. Interesting question.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 1:37 PM Clay Blackwell 
wrote:

> ...Corner work is continuous.  It doesn't require the finer thread. ...
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:03 AM, Devon Thein  wrote:
> > ...whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the
> need to
> > match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners.
>
>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Clay Blackwell]

Lassen is a technique for joining fine lace.  It is done with very fine thread 
which is used to wrap small bundles invisibly.  

Corner work is continuous.  It doesn't require the finer thread.  

I'm frustrated that I can't remember more!  I also can't find my copy of "Het 
Lassen", which covers the technique and applications quite well, assuming you 
can muddle through translating!

Clay

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:03 AM, Devon Thein  wrote:
> 
> Add this to the list of things I should be looking for when I look at lace
> in the museum! This is something I never thought of before. I had a quick
> look through my photos and I couldn't find an example of lassen, although I
> have been taught how to do the technique in several classes. It would be
> interesting to see if someone has a historical piece that has lassen on it,
> and then we could assess whether it is true that the thread used was six
> times finer. One random thought that crosses my mind, based on nothing, is
> whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the need to
> match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners.
> Devon
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Devon Thein]

Add this to the list of things I should be looking for when I look at lace
in the museum! This is something I never thought of before. I had a quick
look through my photos and I couldn't find an example of lassen, although I
have been taught how to do the technique in several classes. It would be
interesting to see if someone has a historical piece that has lassen on it,
and then we could assess whether it is true that the thread used was six
times finer. One random thought that crosses my mind, based on nothing, is
whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the need to
match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners.
Devon


>
>
>

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[lace] Lassen question

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

Since the list is silent, I would like to ask an historical question. I will 
state here that I have asked the question before years ago but didn’t get a 
satisfactory answer so here I go again ...

For lassen (I think that is the word), where the ends of lace are overlapped 
and (almost) invisibly joined by oversewing, what thread did they use?

We often hear about how the finest threads were used to make the lace. Then I 
got an answer that said that the lassen thread was six times finer than that. 
Presumably they always used the same type of thread (linen, cotton, silk or 
whatever) for both. Therefore, I am in something of a quandary and I am really 
hoping that someone can explain. Was there some secret extra-fine thread that 
was only available in short lengths? Whatever it was, it had to be strong and 
well-spun and available to these skilled artists. Just how fine are we talking 
about? I understand that there are a few specialists who still do this work so 
maybe one of you have used their talents and know something about it? 

Over to you all, thank you in advance,

Helen (in hot British Columbia)

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RE: [lace] Bobbin question ( a ?maker? responds)

[Brian Lemin]

Hi,

I suppose I need to chime in here on the bobbin question.
Certainly fruit woods are great for bobbins as the early makers found and
also those woods were plentiful at that time.  Almost every home had an
apple tree at least!  Basically they are fine grained woods and polish very
well. The wood does need to have been properly dried properly or some
bending (even splitting in an extreme case)
In recent years a wide range of woods have been available to bobbin makers,
some very decorative and make excellent bobbins.  Modern sanding and
polishing materials in the hands of an experienced turner should basically
eliminate any roughness, and depending on the finish the bobbins in
exotic/modern(?) woods can have a very nice attractive finish.

Bobbin makers are variously motivated.  Some just make them for family and
friends, other endeavour to glean some sort of income from their efforts.
Some are well known for a particular style and sell them quite well.  Others
demonstrate some extremely skilled turning and variation in their output.
There are some truly fantastic wood turning skills demonstrated in some
modern bobbins I see.  I doubt if the makers get a good return on this
demonstration of their skills; but this is true of most dobby crafts, you
rarely get true value from your efforts if you sell.

With the , initial completion of my English Antique lace bobbin dictionary
(and collecting) [www.brianlemin.com]  I am turning my mind to other aspects
of lace bobbins.  There is a whole field of study in antique hand carved
bobbins that Diana Smith has an interest in.  They are in an area of
difficult study, but this genre has a life of its own, sometimes in
historical and social history, but I love speculating as to why, perhaps a
husband, son or boyfriend would have made them for his special lace maker
friend.  Just think all the time they whittled away at that piece of wood to
make a bobbin they were thinking of someone special.  For that reason alone,
hand carved bobbins should be cherished. 

Not that I am in any position to study them, being a very feeble artist, but
the hand painting of bobbins (Particularly the East Devon Bobbins (Honiton))
are totally amazing and have brought a whole new area of artistic bobbins to
be enjoyed, used and collected.

I do need to say that in a general sense, the antique BONE  English bobbins
that we collect and use are probably "favourite" amongst collectors.  I
suggest that this is still true of modern bone bobbin makers. Collectors and
users of these should not underestimate the amount of preliminary work that
has to be done to prepare bone for turning is extensive (and perhaps
smelly!!)  It is a most satisfying material to turn and lends itself to
great decorative turning. The material and work put into bone bobbins must
reflect in their price; and in my opinion it reflects in the enjoyment we
get from lace bobbins.

I know you all enjoy these wonderful tools and may that enjoyment continue
for you

Brian

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Lorri
Ferguson
Sent: Sunday, 17 February 2019 5:27 AM
To: Arachne list ; Adele Shaak 
Subject: Re: [lace] Bobbin question

Even a home hobbyist can produce very fine bobbins.  It is all in the
sanding and polishing.
I have made bobbins from various woods, one just has to take some time with
the finishing.

Yes, some woods are better than others - fruit woods are probably the best.
I made some from the wood of the apple tree in the yard of the house I grew
up in.  It is super to work.  But I have also used much coarser grained
woods and with the proper finishing they can be just as good.

Lorri Ferguson
Renton, WA


From: owner-l...@arachne.com  on behalf of Adele
Shaak 
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 9:15 AM
To: Arachne list
Subject: Re: [lace] Bobbin question

I think we need a woodworker to chime in here, but I believe that bobbins
that are not professionally made may also be rough because of the type of
wood used. A coarse-grained splintery softwood is never going to give you
the finish of a dense hardwood. Or so I understand.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada, home of the splintery softwood


> Sue wrote:

> I felt that most of these bobbins were hand made and often a bit rough 
> and
ready so not necessarily a style but maybe as a result of inexperience and
not made by a skilled craftsman perhaps.

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Lorri Ferguson]

Even a home hobbyist can produce very fine bobbins.  It is all in the sanding
and polishing.
I have made bobbins from various woods, one just has to take some time with
the finishing.

Yes, some woods are better than others - fruit woods are probably the best.
I made some from the wood of the apple tree in the yard of the house I grew up
in.  It is super to work.  But I have also used much coarser grained woods and
with the proper finishing
they can be just as good.

Lorri Ferguson
Renton, WA


From: owner-l...@arachne.com  on behalf of Adele Shaak

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 9:15 AM
To: Arachne list
Subject: Re: [lace] Bobbin question

I think we need a woodworker to chime in here, but I believe that bobbins
that
are not professionally made may also be rough because of the type of wood
used. A coarse-grained splintery softwood is never going to give you the
finish of a dense hardwood. Or so I understand.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada, home of the splintery softwood


> Sue wrote:

> I felt that most of these bobbins were hand made and often a bit rough and
ready so not necessarily a style but maybe as a result of inexperience and
not
made by a skilled craftsman perhaps.

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Malvary Cole]

Many of the English bobbins are made from fruit wood.  Most regions would 
have grown fruit trees and so it would have been readily available.


I have a couple of the Malmsbury bobbins that are tapered style.  From my 
memory of them they are fairly dark coloured and therefore probably not 
fruit wood.  They are modern reproductions as far as I know.


Malvary in Ottawa where we had a mini thaw yesterday, but bright and sunny 
today and a bitterly cold wind.


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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Adele Shaak]

I think we need a woodworker to chime in here, but I believe that bobbins that
are not professionally made may also be rough because of the type of wood
used. A coarse-grained splintery softwood is never going to give you the
finish of a dense hardwood. Or so I understand.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada, home of the splintery softwood


> Sue wrote:

> I felt that most of these bobbins were hand made and often a bit rough and
ready so not necessarily a style but maybe as a result of inexperience and not
made by a skilled craftsman perhaps.

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[elizabeth.pa...@talktalk.net]

Hello Sue,
I've got over 100 antique 
Malmesbury bobbins in both versions - with neck or tapered.  They are 
all straight and blunt ended.  None were converted to take spangles, 
which you sometimes see on very old, tiny, lightweight bobbins or 
continentals sold to the English market in days gone by.
They
 average 100 mm. in length and vary from  4 to 6 mm. diameter.  The 
bobbins with a neck were obvously used with extremely fine thread as the
 gap on most of them is only 10mm.  You wouldn't get much Cordonnet 40 
on them!  I wonder when fashions altered,  if the change to heavier lace
 and slightly thicker thread caused the tapered style, as it would be 
possible to wind on much more thread without the collar.
There
 is only simple decoration on the shank, mostly turned rings, although 
the collar may have a little shaping.  Only three bobbins show signs of 
extra embelishment; one has a few pokerwork dots near the tail end;
another has been slashed and the third covered with a thin layer of gold
 paint.
I also have half a dozen Malmesbury 
gimp bobbins.  They are thicker, about 9mm. diameter, and longer, 
varying between 100mm. and 108mm.  One is still wound with gimp thread, 
and all have a neck which measures about 15mm.
These
 bobbins are lovely to use; they are so smooth and have the patina of 
many years use.  I would recommend a Honiton type pillow so that the 
bobbins can hang down vertically.  They will roll too much on a mushroom
 pillow.
If you would like some photos, please let me know.
With all good wishes,Liz Passin Poole, Dorset, where it's still dull and very 
mild for the time of year.

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Sue]

I felt that most of these bobbins were hand made and often a bit rough and 
ready so not necessarily a style but maybe as a result of inexperience and 
not made by a skilled craftsman perhaps.

Sue in dull damp Dorset UK, hoping for a bit of sunshine


Thanks Alice—good to know! I wanted to understand whether a tapered neck 
was

a specific feature or an interpretation of the form by individual bobbin
makers in those areas. Looking forward to some “new” Malmesbury & Devon
style bobbins made by an expert! Sincerely, Susan Hottle FL USA

Sent from my iPad


On Feb 16, 2019, at 2:20 AM, Alice Howell  wrote:

I haven't seen the pictures you refer to but my antique Malmsbury bobbins

are not tapered.  They are straight cylinders, about 3/8 inch or less thick,
about 4 inches long, with a thread area cutout about 1/2 inch long.  The
bobbins are mostly plain but may have a groove or two, or many, circling the
shafts.  Each one I looked at was a bit different.  Since my assortment
probably came from many bobbin makers, there could easily have been others 
who

cut their bobbins a bit differently.  They look something like flat-bottomed
Honiton bobbins -- no spangles.  They were intended for very fine thread so
needed to be light-weight.


Alice in Oregon -- where we had snow for a day or so, and now rain most of

the time

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Susan]

Thanks Alice—good to know! I wanted to understand whether a tapered neck was
a specific feature or an interpretation of the form by individual bobbin
makers in those areas. Looking forward to some “new” Malmesbury & Devon
style bobbins made by an expert! Sincerely, Susan Hottle FL USA

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 16, 2019, at 2:20 AM, Alice Howell  wrote:
>
> I haven't seen the pictures you refer to but my antique Malmsbury bobbins
are not tapered.  They are straight cylinders, about 3/8 inch or less thick,
about 4 inches long, with a thread area cutout about 1/2 inch long.  The
bobbins are mostly plain but may have a groove or two, or many, circling the
shafts.  Each one I looked at was a bit different.  Since my assortment
probably came from many bobbin makers, there could easily have been others who
cut their bobbins a bit differently.  They look something like flat-bottomed
Honiton bobbins -- no spangles.  They were intended for very fine thread so
needed to be light-weight.
>
> Alice in Oregon -- where we had snow for a day or so, and now rain most of
the time
>
>

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Re: [lace] Bobbin question

[Alice Howell]

 I haven't seen the pictures you refer to but my antique Malmsbury bobbins are
not tapered.  They are straight cylinders, about 3/8 inch or less thick,
about 4 inches long, with a thread area cutout about 1/2 inch long.  The
bobbins are mostly plain but may have a groove or two, or many, circling the
shafts.  Each one I looked at was a bit different.  Since my assortment
probably came from many bobbin makers, there could easily have been others who
cut their bobbins a bit differently.  They look something like flat-bottomed
Honiton bobbins -- no spangles.  They were intended for very fine thread so
needed to be light-weight.
Alice in Oregon -- where we had snow for a day or so, and now rain most of the
time

On Friday, February 15, 2019, 1:13:24 PM PST, Susan 
wrote:

 Someone is willing to make replica bobbins for me & I noticed that both Devon
Trolly & Malmesbury bobbins, pictured in Springett & on Brian’s online
dictionary, have tapered necks. Can anyone shed some light on this? Just
wondering if this is a specific feature to these types of bobbins. Many
thanks. Sincerely, Susan Hottle, FL USA

from my iPad

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[lace] Bobbin question

[Susan]

Someone is willing to make replica bobbins for me & I noticed that both Devon 
Trolly & Malmesbury bobbins, pictured in Springett & on Brian’s online 
dictionary, have tapered necks. Can anyone shed some light on this? Just 
wondering if this is a specific feature to these types of bobbins. Many thanks. 
Sincerely, Susan Hottle, FL USA 

from my iPad

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Re: [lace] Identification question

[Jane Partridge]

Honeycombe stitch as a ground is also known as Spanish Ground - might this have 
any bearing?



 Original Message 
Subject: [lace] Identification question
From: Devon Thein

The most distinctive thing about these two pieces is that they both
have a honeycomb background mesh.  Any thoughts about this? Does anyone 
else know of laces with a
honeycomb background mesh?

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Re: [lace] Identification question

[Marianne Gallant]

Devon, I looked through the book of bobbin lace stitches by Cook and 
Stott, and to me the ground stitch looks more like the braided kat 
stitch that is on page 122 of the book. That would make more sense if it 
is considered a Flemish type lace, since kat stitch (or Paris) is more 
closely related to that area, while honeycomb ground is more related to 
point ground laces.

*Marianne*

Marianne Gallant
Vernon, BC Canada
m...@shaw.ca
http://threadsnminis.blogspot.ca, https://www.facebook.com/GallantCreation/

On 2018-10-25 1:18 p.m., Devon Thein wrote:
> Earlier I posed a question about a piece of lace in the museum that I
> am having trouble categorizing. The museum has it pegged as Flemish.
> I posted the photo on the Laceioli.ning site
>   
> laceioli.ning.com/groups/group/show?groupUrl=identification-history_source=activity
> This should be viewable by everyone.
> Oddly enough, Lorelei had a piece very similar to it which she posted.
> The most distinctive thing about these two pieces is that they both
> have a honeycomb background mesh. Today I had a brainstorm and I
> actually looked through entries for all the bobbin lace in the museum
> from 1800-1900. I found only a very few with a honeycomb background
> and all but one of them was donated by the Society for Women's Work in
> Stockholm in 1908 and were considered to be Swedish. The only other
> one was from Northhamptonshire. I have posted photos of  these on the
> Laceioli.ning site at the above location.
> I think it is very odd to have a relatively simple lace with a
> honeycomb background mesh. The more I think about it the odder it
> seems. Any thoughts about this? Does anyone else know of laces with a
> honeycomb background mesh? How about the Swedish connection? Does that
> ring a bell?
> Devon
>

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[lace] Identification question

[Devon Thein]

Earlier I posed a question about a piece of lace in the museum that I
am having trouble categorizing. The museum has it pegged as Flemish.
I posted the photo on the Laceioli.ning site
 
laceioli.ning.com/groups/group/show?groupUrl=identification-history_source=activity
This should be viewable by everyone.
Oddly enough, Lorelei had a piece very similar to it which she posted.
The most distinctive thing about these two pieces is that they both
have a honeycomb background mesh. Today I had a brainstorm and I
actually looked through entries for all the bobbin lace in the museum
from 1800-1900. I found only a very few with a honeycomb background
and all but one of them was donated by the Society for Women's Work in
Stockholm in 1908 and were considered to be Swedish. The only other
one was from Northhamptonshire. I have posted photos of  these on the
Laceioli.ning site at the above location.
I think it is very odd to have a relatively simple lace with a
honeycomb background mesh. The more I think about it the odder it
seems. Any thoughts about this? Does anyone else know of laces with a
honeycomb background mesh? How about the Swedish connection? Does that
ring a bell?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Starching question!

[lynrbailey]

"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."Dear Elena,

This project will be worn and thus requires starching,

Are you sure?  I have starched Christmas ornaments, but never lace to be worn.  
The first question, in my opinion, is whether it should be starched.  My first 
thought, without more definite information, is not.  If the lace is so fragile 
it will warp when worn, should it be worn?  I never cease to be amazed at how 
tough the lace I make is, even the stuff in 140 cotton.  What really surprised 
me is how sturdy Mechlin lace is when completed, even though it looks like it 
would collapse.  If I were you, I think I'd make a sampler piece of a size of 
one of your sections, take it off the pins after letting it sit in the pins for 
at least a day, and see what happens.  I am assuming that this lace is your own 
creation, artist that you are, and you are stretching the envelope.  Sadly, in 
those cases envelopes can collapse.  Starching would connect the half stitch 
threads which usually slide around, but that starch connection would probably 
not last with wearing.  The threads would be!
  stiff, but 50/2 is pretty sturdy stuff and doesn't usually need more 
stiffening. If this is not an original pattern, I would rely on the designer's 
ideas, and if starching is not called for, I would doubt it needs it.

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where this heat wave should leave tonight. 
 We got home from Belgium on Monday, and I've been used to cooler temperatures. 
 


"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."

 I'm working on a very
>special and exciting project that I cannot wait to share, but for now it
>must remain a secret. This project will be worn and thus requires
>starching, but I have never had to starch a bobbin lace project before. Of
>course I have many books in my library that discuss it, but I'm not sure
>which is best.
>
>The piece is is being worked in three sections (moved twice), so my
>instinct is to starch before unpinning each time so that it doesn't warp.
>I'm using half stitch & torchon ground in 50/2 Egyptian cotton with a 2-ply
>Japanese silk gimp, so I'm nervous about it getting misshapen.
>
>What is the best way to starch on a pillow? I also fear that the pins could
>rust and mark the piece that is white... I'm not concerned about damaging
>the pillow however, as I have loads.

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Re: [lace] Starching question!

[Dagmar Beckel Machyckova]

Hi Elena,
I have had the chance to work with different starching materials on cotton
and linen. I have only ever pressed silk (over a damp cloth).
For starching I strongly recommend using all stainless steel pins to
prevent rusting and always use some sort of a cover for your pricking (blue
contact sheet or even 3" clear packaging tape) this prevents the ink from
coming off the pricking and into the lace and it also protects your pillow.
When you are finished with your piece, take out the non essential pins
(example in a plain torchon ground you would take out the center pins and
only leave the outside ones), then push all the pins down so you have easy
access to the threads. Use a clean painting brush (very small square ones
tend to work the best) to "paint" the starch onto the lace and let dry out.
I like to use the standard fabric starches like Easy ON or  Stayflo. It
might be a good idea to test different strengths (dilution ratios) on a
sample made with your desired threads to get just the right crispness.

Good luck with the project it sounds exciting. Can't wait to see it on
Instagram ;-)

-- 
Dagmar Beckel Machyckova
Fiber Artist and Professional Lacemaker
715.944.9608


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[lace] Starching question!

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Hi everyone,

I've been really enjoying everyone's conversations lately. Though I've
started some replies, they've languished in the draft box due to my busy
schedule, oops!

I have a question for all of you lovely lacemakers. I'm working on a very
special and exciting project that I cannot wait to share, but for now it
must remain a secret. This project will be worn and thus requires
starching, but I have never had to starch a bobbin lace project before. Of
course I have many books in my library that discuss it, but I'm not sure
which is best.

The piece is is being worked in three sections (moved twice), so my
instinct is to starch before unpinning each time so that it doesn't warp.
I'm using half stitch & torchon ground in 50/2 Egyptian cotton with a 2-ply
Japanese silk gimp, so I'm nervous about it getting misshapen.

What is the best way to starch on a pillow? I also fear that the pins could
rust and mark the piece that is white... I'm not concerned about damaging
the pillow however, as I have loads.

Thanks in advance for your help! I look forward to your advice!
Best,
Elena

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[lace] Flanders question

[Susan]

Solved! Many thanks to all who wrote with help & suggestions regarding the Pale 
Blue Square In Flanderische Spitze. It turns out that in spite of all my 
pinhole counting, I failed to notice that the pinhole arrangement on the 
pricking did not match the arrangement on the diagram. Luckily, that fact did 
not escape the sharp eyes of a very experienced & helpful Arachnean! So—if you 
own this book, now is the moment to make a “note to self” that modifications 
will be needed when you work the corners on this pattern. It’s a cute piece so 
I’m glad a solution is available for future efforts. Hope this helps others who 
want to try Flanders. It’s a very nice book with pretty designs. Sincerely, 
Susan Hottle USA

Sent from my iPad

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[lace] Flanders question

[Susan]

Hello All!  I am trying to resolve an issue while working Pale Blue Square in 
Flanderische Spitze by Barbara Corbet. Has anyone successfully worked this 
pattern? It’s cute as a button but I am off by two pins on the picot side & I 
have been unable to find my mistake, even after numbering the pinholes on the 
diagram. Before I cut if off, it would be helpful to know if it’s me (highly 
likely) or an anomaly in the pattern (highly unlikely, but possible).  Many 
thanks for any suggestions.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA 

Sent from my iPad

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Re: [lace] basic question

[N.A. Neff]

I generally agree with Lyn's analysis, except that I would point out that
diagrams are a recent phenomenon. If one takes Sharon's question to imply
"all things being equal", then surely 17th and 18th C Binche/Valenciennes
(before they differentiated) is the most difficult bobbin lace. I can work
out how to do a piece of point ground lace, even floral, without a
diagram,  and all other kinds of bobbin lace I can think of, but I
certainly can't do that with old Binche. But that's just one data point.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA


On Mon, May 21, 2018, 09:05  wrote:

> ... "Difficult" is different for different people.  Binche is certainly
> difficult in that you have to follow the diagram carefully, and there are
> methods of doing that, but nonetheless, there are diagrams, so as long as
> you know where you are, it's not that difficult to figure out what to do
> next. ...
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi 
>
> >What is the most difficult *type* of lace to make? I'm guessing it is
> >Binche.
>

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Re: [lace] basic question

[lynrbailey]

Interesting question.  "Difficult" is different for different people.  Binche 
is certainly difficult in that you have to follow the diagram carefully, and 
there are methods of doing that, but nonetheless, there are diagrams, so as 
long as you know where you are, it's not that difficult to figure out what to 
do next.  

But there are other laces, Withof comes to mind, where the tensioning of the 
thread needs to be just so, and if you don't, it looks pretty bad.

Then there is the fact that mature eyes don't see as well, so if you're at that 
stage in life, fine threads, Egyptian cotton 140 or higher, means you have to 
do all sorts of things with lighting and magnification in order to see what 
you're doing, making the lace quite difficult.  There is something referred to 
as cataract lace, where you enlarge the pricking considerably and use thicker 
thread to avoid this issue.  

Brits, until recently, did not believe in diagrams at all, so a good lacemaker 
is expected to be able to know what to do just by looking at the pricking.  If 
you're not quite that good, it is very difficult.

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA where the weather is lovely, and my antique 
roses are blooming.  Heady fragrance comes in the kitchen window.

"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."


-Original Message-
>From: Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi 

>What is the most difficult *type* of lace to make? I'm guessing it is
>Binche. Is that correct?
>

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[lace] basic question

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

What is the most difficult *type* of lace to make? I'm guessing it is
Binche. Is that correct?

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[lace] Re: Question

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello Everybody,
I lost the address of the lady in Brugge who organize the lace-meeting in 2018.
Could anybody please send it to me privately?
Thanks in advance

Ilske

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Re: [lace-chat] Plait and braid: was: [lace] Re: question

[Sue Babbs]

In  England plait is said "plat" - so the Hoosiers are doing well there!  I 
was surprised when we moved to America to discover midwesterners saying 
"plate" - it's logical, but then English pronunciation isn't!!




Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

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[lace-chat] Plait and braid: was: [lace] Re: question

[Joy Beeson]

Moved to chat because my reply is off-topic and out of date:

On 6/21/17 7:39 AM, AGlez wrote:


I also ask myself the same question. Can somebody confirm
if "plait" is more often used in the UK, and "braid" is
more used in the States? At least this is what I always
thought...


In Hoosier dialect, it's a matter of time.  The old folks
said "plat" (and never wrote it down because it was
backwoodsy and oldtimey, so I was full grown before I
learned that it's spelled "plait").  Educated people said
"braid".  As far as a little girl knew, the only thing ever
braided/plaited was my hair and Jenny Von's.

Nowadays it's the other way around:  "braid" is everyday and
"plait" is high toned.  But I don't know how "plait" is 
pronounced.  When I see "plait", my mind's ear says "plate". 
  I think that in at least one time and place, it was "pleet".



Joy Beeson in northern Indiana
where we're getting spring thunderstorms.


--
Joy Beeson
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A.
where

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[lace] re Question

[Elizabeth Ligeti.]

Being English/Aussie, I use the word Plait (or occasionally Leg – just to
confuse things further!!) for the 2 pair ct,ct,ct section,

 And Braid, - to me – is a wider piece with more passive pairs, and one pair
of workers going backwards and forwards -, as in Tape lace.

Lacemaking, having sprung up in so many different places, and people not
travelling around like we do today, has brought about lots of confusing bits
like this.  It all adds to the fascination of Lacemaking, I suppose!!
Look at – Workers, walkers weavers, leaders and runners! – 5 terms for the
same thing!

Regards from Liz, in chilly, damp, Melbourne, Oz.

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Re: [lace] Re: question

[Ilske Thomsen]

a Big thank you to all who replied to my question.
I decide to make a plait with my bobbins and braids with my hair if they ever 
will be again long enough for ;-)


Ilske

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Re: [lace] Re: question

[N.A. Neff]

You may be generally correct, Lorelei, especially for the tape(US) /
braid(UK) usages. It is probably somewhat muddled, however, by the
background of one's teacher(s), and which books one uses the most. I've
taught myself a lot from books, especially in the beginning, and (almost?)
exclusively European books for the Binche / Val family of lace, and
consequently I use "plait" more than "braid" for the first pairing you list
in spite of being American. I expect that your use of "braid/plait" and
"tape/braid" may be the best solution, although I'm going to be more
disciplined about simply using "plait" and "tape", since "braid" is the
ambiguous term.

Someone said something applicable here about Americans and the English
being two peoples divided by a common language (but there is quite a bit of
confusion about who said it. http://tinyurl.com/y8jx8dfw or
http://tinyurl.com/y7z79o5p, etc. Candidates include Oscar Wilde, G.B.Shaw,
Churchill, Reader's Digest, and a bunch of people I never heard of. I
always liked Winston as a candidate for this one, but that's apparently
unlikely; I have a queasy feeling that it was probably some editor at
Reader's Digest...)

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Lorelei Halley 
wrote:

> My understanding is that the terms are used differently in the U.S. and in
> Britain.
> U.S.  Britain
> Braidplait
> Tape braid
> (for a narrow woven band, machine made or hand made)
>
>

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RE: [lace] Re: question

[Lorelei Halley]

My understanding is that the terms are used differently in the U.S. and in
Britain.
U.S.  Britain
Braidplait
Tape braid
(for a narrow woven band, machine made or hand made)

When I write about things that Include those elements I have taken to using
the phrases braid/plait   and tape/braid in an attempt at clarity. I don't
think we will ever convert one batch of lace makers into adopting the other
batch's terminology.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
AGlez
Subject: Re: [lace] Re: question

I also ask myself the same question. Can somebody confirm if "plait" is more
often used in the UK, and "braid" is more used in the States? At least this
is what I always thought...
Antje GonzC!lez, Spain
www.vueltaycruz.es

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[lace] Re: question

[Jane Partridge]

When I was doing my City & Guilds, we used braid and tape for narrow trails - 
tape for machine made, braid for hand made. Plaits are lengths of ct,ct,ct 
(half stitch repeated with the same two pairs). In English, we tend only to use 
braid for plait when referring to hair (3 strand plaits), and even then plait 
is the preferred term.

Jane Partridge



From: owner-l...@arachne.com 
> on behalf of Ilske 
Thomsen >


Hello everybody especially English native lacemaker,
I am always unsure which I should take

braidorplate .

When do you use which or which do you use
[https://farm1.staticflickr.com/3/5118236_94f976f34e_b.jpg] 






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Re: [lace] Re: question

[AGlez]

I also ask myself the same question. Can somebody confirm if "plait" is
more often used in the UK, and "braid" is more used in the States? At least
this is what I always thought...

Have a nice day!!

--
Antje González, Spain
www.vueltaycruz.es

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RE: [lace] Re: question

[Agnes Boddington]

Hello Ilske
flechten = to braid / to plait hair or anything else that can be
braided/plaited
braiding / plaiting = making braids or plaits
Zopf = a hair braid / plait
So both really the same.
Agnes Boddington - Elloughton UK

Hello everybody especially English native lacemaker,
I am always unsure which I should take 

braidorplate 

if I want say Flechter.
In my dictionary for 
braid:  they say:  1.) flechten (hair, tape) 
  2.) Zopf (plait)
plait:   1.) Zopf
   2.) flechten

When do you use which or which do you use when?

Ilske

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[lace] Re: question

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello everybody especially English native lacemaker,
I am always unsure which I should take 

braidorplate 

if I want say Flechter.
In my dictionary for 
braid:  they say:  1.) flechten (hair, tape) 
  2.) Zopf (plait)
plait:   1.) Zopf
   2.) flechten

When do you use which or which do you use when?

Ilske

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Re: [lace] Thread question

[Brenda Paternoster]

Hi Susan

It sounds as though it might the same as Presencia El Molino - a 7 stranded
rayon embroidery thread, on a spool rather than in a skein, each of the
strands being singles yarn.
Presencia El Molono: 1S/7Z - 11 w/cm.  single strand 1S - 23 w/cm

Rayon is a very soft thread, not a lot of ‘body’ but would make a nice
gimp with cotton (or linen) as the main thread, but probably a bit soft and
limp if you tried to use it alone.  A single strand would be fine (mixed in
with other threads) for a particular colour, but a lot of faff to separate the
strands for individual use in a whole project.

Brenda


> On 10 Feb 2017, at 15:59, Susan  wrote:
>
> Hello All!  Does anyone have any experience with El Molino, rayon especial
para labores, 25grs, Article 72, Lombard S.A., Barcelona??  It has a very soft
twist.  A friend plans to use it for a needlepoint project.  Has anyone used
it for large scale lace or gimp?  The colors are exquisite & it could make a
dreamy scarf.  Many thanks.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
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Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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[lace] Thread question

[Susan]

Hello All!  Does anyone have any experience with El Molino, rayon especial para 
labores, 25grs, Article 72, Lombard S.A., Barcelona??  It has a very soft 
twist.  A friend plans to use it for a needlepoint project.  Has anyone used it 
for large scale lace or gimp?  The colors are exquisite & it could make a 
dreamy scarf.  Many thanks.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA 

Sent from my iPad

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Re: [lace] thread question

[Ilske Thomsen]

Häkelgarn is German. And Taschentücher is the plural of Taschentuch and this is 
in English a handkerchief. And here it means thread for lace around a 
handkerchief.
The mention brand is DMC but if Cordonnet or  spez. dentelles isn’t clear if 
not mentioned on the label. And this isn’t always so. 

Ilske

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[lace] Thread question

[Miriam Gidron]

The thread is fine crochet/tatting thread corresponding to DMC 80. It is
being used for handkerchief edging. Taschentuch means handkerchief.

Miria
In Arad, Israel

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Re: [lace] thread question

[Brenda Paternoster]

So it’s saying to use size 80 crochet cotton for lace around a
handkerchief.

If the pattern says DMC then it does mean Cordonnet 80 or Special Dentelles 80
(which I believe is the same thread, just that Cordonnet comes in big balls
and white and ecru only, Special Dentelles comes in lots of colours but in
small balls).  If the lace edging is crocheted or tatted that would probably
be the best choice, but IMO the 6-ply threads such as Cordonnet isn’t the
best choice of thread for bobbin lace to surround a hankie because it works up
crisp, almost hard. For a hankie edging I would choose a 2-ply or 3-ply thread
to make the finished lace softer.

Brenda

>
> Häkelgarn is German. And Taschentücher is the plural of Taschentuch and
this is in English a handkerchief. And here it means thread for lace around a
handkerchief.
> The mention brand is DMC but if Cordonnet or  spez. dentelles isn’t clear
if not mentioned on the label. And this isn’t always so.
>
>

Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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Re: [lace] thread question

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello Judith,
häkeln is crochet Häkelgarn thread for crochet. No 80 is fine it’s for crochet 
lace. It’s very strong twisted so it’s not fitting for every sort of bobbin 
lace.

Ilske


> Am 04.01.2016 um 18:54 schrieb Judith Bongiovanni :
> 
> Happy New Projects fellow lace makers. Can someone please"translate" the
> thread requirement "80er Hakelgarn fur Taschenticher"? Thank you. Judy
> Bongiovanni Lewiston, NY USA
> 
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Re: [lace] thread question

[Brenda Paternoster]

Yes, Häkelgarn means crochet thread, (I’m not sure which language;
Norwegian? Finnish?  So probably DMC Cordonnet or Special Dentelles
(“tatting cotton”) or something similar.
I don’t know what Taschenticher means - it’s probably referring to a
specific part of the lace.

Brenda

> On 4 Jan 2016, at 18:50, Ilske Thomsen  wrote:
>
> häkeln is crochet Häkelgarn thread for crochet. No 80 is fine it’s for
crochet lace. It’s very strong twisted so it’s not fitting for every sort
of bobbin lace.
>
>>  Can someone please"translate" the
>> thread requirement "80er Hakelgarn fur Taschenticher"? Thank you. Judy

Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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Re: [lace] Re: question

[Clay Blackwell]

Hello Ilske!

I have this pattern and have looked at the drawing.  It is actually four pages 
of drawings, printed front and back.   My copy has the bird on pages 1 and 4.  
Did you check the backs of your pages?

I'll be happy to send you copies if you do not find them!

Clay

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 4, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Ilske Thomsen ilske.l.thom...@t-online.de wrote:
 
 Dear All,
 years ago somewhere in Europe I bought a booklet with a Binche pattern „The 
 Riverside“ a lovely border with ice birds, irises and spikes of reed designed 
 and worked by Grace Jones. As I looked at it recently because i would like to 
 work it I sit and thought I am unable to see right, there is no technical 
 drawing for the bird.
 Does anybody from you have this pattern and could send me the missing part?
 
 Ilske from very hot, 35 degrees C, in Hamburg
 
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[lace] Re: question

[Ilske Thomsen]

Dear All,
years ago somewhere in Europe I bought a booklet with a Binche pattern „The 
Riverside“ a lovely border with ice birds, irises and spikes of reed designed 
and worked by Grace Jones. As I looked at it recently because i would like to 
work it I sit and thought I am unable to see right, there is no technical 
drawing for the bird.
Does anybody from you have this pattern and could send me the missing part?

Ilske from very hot, 35 degrees C, in Hamburg

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Re: [lace] Arachne question

[Brenda Paternoster]

Goldschild/Londonderry linen is all 3 ply (apart from 60/2Nm 100/2NeL)

As Adel says, Brigitte Bellon is German so Bockens, or maybe Fresia, are the
most likely.

Brenda


 I made a few of Brigitte Bellon’s Christmas bells last year, and I used
Goldschild linen, which I understand is sold in the US under the name
Londonderry Linen. It worked very well.

 Need a little info. I have Bridgette Bellon's Christmas book and is says
use
 Linen thread 50/2.

Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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[lace] Arachne question

[Donna Fousek]

Need a little info. I have Bridgette Bellon's Christmas book and is says use
Linen thread 50/2. My question is which manufacture. Bockens has a rap of 24,
Fresia is 22 and Campbell Irish is 17.  Can someone let me know which is the
thread that works best.
Donna F.Near Chicago

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Re: [lace] Arachne question

[lynrbailey]

Dear Donna,
I would vote for either the Bockens, which is Swedish, or the Freesia.  They 
are similar in wraps.  Brigitte Bellon is German, so I doubt she would use an 
Irish linen without mentioning the brand.  

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where the rain is over, but they are not 
predicting sun until a week from tomorrow.  Bummer.


My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails.

Donna wrote:
Need a little info. I have Bridgette Bellon's Christmas book and is says use
Linen thread 50/2. My question is which manufacture. Bockens has a rap of 24,
Fresia is 22 and Campbell Irish is 17.  Can someone let me know which is the
thread that works best.

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Re: [lace] Arachne question

[Adele Shaak]

Hi Donna:

I made a few of Brigitte Bellon’s Christmas bells last year, and I used 
Goldschild linen, which I understand is sold in the US under the name 
Londonderry Linen. It worked very well.


Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)

 On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Donna Fousek ibal...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Need a little info. I have Bridgette Bellon's Christmas book and is says use
 Linen thread 50/2. My question is which manufacture. Bockens has a rap of 24,
 Fresia is 22 and Campbell Irish is 17.  Can someone let me know which is the
 thread that works best.
 Donna F.Near Chicago

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[lace] Lace question on a quiz show

[Jean Nathan]

On the UK TV show 'Tipping Point' on Sunday evening the question in the
category labelled 'Hobbies' was Which of these were the towns of Honiton and
Nottingham famous for? Three options were given. Of those, the answer wanted
was lace.

I'd hardly call the Honiton and Nottingham lace industries a hobby!

Jean Nathan in Poole, Dorset, UK

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[lace] thread question

[Donna Fousek]

Hi. I hope I can find out what is the wraps for Madeira Aerofil No. 35. I have
looked in Brenda's book but could not find it. I wish to substitute with a
thread I have in my stash. Any information would be helpful. Thank you all in
advance.

Donna 
Frozen Chicago area.

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Re: [lace] thread question

[Brenda Paternoster]

I think that Sue has answered the questions.

I'm sure it will be 'au ver a soie' rather than  'du ver a soie' and the platre 
version of the natural cotton is smooth rather than 'roc' which is cabled (I 
think double plied like cordonnet crochet threads) or 'stuc' which is loopy.  
I've not seen it but it's a knitting yarn of three-ply thickness, which in 
knitting terms translates to fine or lace weight.

Brenda


On 3 Feb 2014, at 03:36, Sue Babbs wrote:

 Is it Au ver a Soie rather than Du ver a soie ? 
 http://www.silk-thread.com/our-silk-threads#pure-soie
 
 If so that is listed under the 'a' section in silks in Brenda's book.
 
 
 
 Bergere de France is a brand, and  cotons nature platre is listed here:
 
 http://www.bergeredefrance.com/cotons-nature-platre.html

Brenda in Allhallows
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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[lace] thread question

[Arlene Cohen]

Hello, all -

There is nothing like a Lace Day (in this case, Lost Art Lacers
in Northern NJ, USA) to put you in a good mood.  Lovely conversation (hi,
Devon!) and great browsing of books.  Even treated myself to a couple!  (Okay,
so the nearly 50 degree F weather also contributes to the good mood - after
the nearly single digits for a couple of weeks and the not-so-good forecasts
for this coming week.)

In enjoying one of my new books today, I've come up
against a couple of thread questions that I could not find answers to using
the wonderful Brenda Paternoster book.  The book I purchased yesterday is La
Dentelle Torchon:  Nouvelles Creations by Martine Piveteau (2011 - in French).
 One of my favorite all-time lace projects came from her first Torchon book (I
admit disappointment with her second, but this one - call it her third? - had
a number of projects that caught my eye.)

Can anyone identify or give
equivalents for the following:

Soie de Paris du Ver a Soie (the Ver a Soie
words are italicize and have the little R in a circle for copyright)

or
Bergere de France (the full line says cotton nature couleur platre Bergere de
France - I know it means cotton in a natural/ecru color, but I don't know how
important the word platre is)

One project is a scarf and the other is a
shawl, so there is no doubt we are talking somewhat thick thread.  Just
looking to know approximately what it might be equivalent to.

Many thanks for
you help,
arlene in NJ in the US

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Re: [lace] thread question

[Sue Babbs]

Is it Au ver a Soie rather than Du ver a soie ? 


http://www.silk-thread.com/our-silk-threads#pure-soie

If so that is listed under the 'a' section in silks in Brenda's book.



Bergere de France is a brand, and  cotons nature platre is listed here:

http://www.bergeredefrance.com/cotons-nature-platre.html

Sue Babbs

suebabbs...@gmail.com

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Re: [lace] pinterest question

[Jacquie Tinch]

I was looking at this last night and the link was a yahoo one, which led to a 
photo album in which I couldn't even find the photo of the angels, or any 
connection to Sherry's website. 

I had found the photo by doing a search in Pinterest under 'bobbin lace angels' 
and the copy of Sherry's photo I found said where that person had pinned it 
from. 

Going to that person's boards, she has probably tens of thousands of pins (over 
2000 on one of several marked as crochet!). There is only one board of 'lace' 
and the angels weren't on that, but she has several named generic things like 
'handwork', 'handicrafts' and 'things I'd like to make' but as it was getting 
late and as she has so many things pinned it was hard to know where to start 
looking. 

I'm not sure quite how she uses her own pins as there are just so many, how 
does she re-find things that she was interested in enough to pin them.  Or 
perhaps she spends so much time searching and saving, she never has time to 
look at them again :-)

I am too new to Pinterest to know how to follow the trail back to the Celtic 
Dream Weaver website, but obviously somewhere along the way the link was 
broken. Is it possible that the photo was 'stolen' from Sherry's website and 
placed in someone's photo album, and then perhaps taken from there and posted 
in other places before it got as far as Pinterest?  And it's in one of those 
moves that the link was lost?

Jacquie in Lincolnshire. 
 

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Re: [lace] pinterest question

[Sue Duckles]

Hi All

I've just done the same thing and got back to a 'yahoo images search'.  If the
person in question has copied it from one of the 'images' pages on yahoo or
google then it probably has been 'spidered' by them and the original site
doesn't always show!

However, as I have a page with 'lacefully elegant' in the title on Pinterest,
I'll put your photo up there with your permission Sherry then it may just
propogate round the world with a link back to your site!

Sue in a damp, miserable East Yorkshire
On 19 Jan 2014, at 09:48, Jacquie Tinch wrote:

 I was looking at this last night and the link was a yahoo one, which led to
a photo album in which I couldn't even find the photo of the angels, or any
connection to Sherry's website.

 I had found the photo by doing a search in Pinterest under 'bobbin lace
angels' and the copy of Sherry's photo I found said where that person had
pinned it from.

My Tatty Blog http://pigminitatty.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: [lace] pinterest question

[Karen Bovard]

I have the same question   
I do NOT understand Pinterest either.  

Karen
Bovard
The ShuttleSmith
Omaha, Nebraska
www.TheShuttleSmith.com
blog:
http://theshuttlesmith.blogspot.com






On Sunday, January 19, 2014 5:08 AM,
Sue Duckles s...@duckles.co.uk wrote:
 
Hi All

I've just done the same thing
and got back to a 'yahoo images search'.  If the
person in question has copied
it from one of the 'images' pages on yahoo or
google then it probably has been
'spidered' by them and the original site
doesn't always show!

However, as I
have a page with 'lacefully elegant' in the title on Pinterest,
I'll put your
photo up there with your permission Sherry then it may just
propogate
round the world with a link back to your site!

Sue in a damp, miserable East
Yorkshire
On 19 Jan 2014, at 09:48, Jacquie Tinch wrote:

 I was looking at
this last night and the link was a yahoo one, which led to
a photo album in
which I couldn't even find the photo of the angels, or any
connection to
Sherry's website.

 I had found the photo by doing a search in Pinterest
under 'bobbin lace
angels' and the copy of Sherry's photo I found said where
that person had
pinned it from.

My Tatty Blog
http://pigminitatty.blogspot.co.uk/


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[lace] pinterest question

[Lorelei Halley]

When pinterest started a few years ago, people were pinning photos with no
indication where they came from.  A lot of people complained to pinterest,
including me.

At some point within the last year (I can't remember exactly when) pinterest
changed its policy and how its software works.  Now any and every pin gets
posted with its source posted just below it.  This happens automatically,
without the pinner having to do anything to achieve this result.

If a photo of mine or yours comes up on a google search, and you click on it,
you get a little box which gives you the option of viewing just the full size
image, naked without comment, or you can choose to view the web page the image
is from. The web page is the source, such as your website or mine.

Since pinterest made this change in how it functions my attitude towards them
has changed, and I find it quite useful.  I'm using it to collect good
pictures of historic and modern laces.  I'm often searching for illustrative
examples for lace identification. There are others on pinterest with the same
interest.  Sometimes I pin their pins (when they have found something I hadn't
seen) and sometimes they pin my pins. Either way the source address gets
attached.

If you are interested --- http://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/

Lorelei

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[lace] pinterest question

[Lorelei Halley]

Sherry -- I went to pinterest and did a search on the name of your website.
In the upper left hand corner is a search slot that works on pinterest
content. I pasted the link to your website into the search slot. It gave me 6
images from your lovely tatting.  All but one had a link to your webpage under
the photo.  The one that didn't -- I clicked on the pinner's name and that
took me to her pinboard which had the photo of your 3d flower.  And that page
had your photo with your website link below it.

Sometimes the chain to get back to the source is a little long, when pinners
take pins from other pinners.

For myself, so long as the viewer can get back to me as the ultimate source,
I'm OK with it.  But I do realize that not everyone will agree.  You could
think of it as a form of flattery.

My web host has an activity statistics program on his server. It tells me
where my website visitors come from, where they got the link to my site.
During the last year I have seen the number of visitors coming from pinterest
grow exponentially.  Pinterest is now a major source of traffic to my website.
That ain't a bad thing.

Lorelei

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