Re: [lace] Re: Braid lace/tape lace
Ah, confusing terminology... > >I was always been taught that laces such as Russian and Milanese are > >braid > >laces and some of the fillings are done with plaits. Tape lace is a > >machine > >made tape tacked onto the pattern and secured with sewing and needle > >made > >fillings. I think if we try to include things that aren't bobbin lace in the terminology, we're going to run out of terms... > >However, since I have been exposed to American terminology on Arachne > >I have > >been very aware that as you refer to plaits (in lace and hair) as > >braids, it > >is necessary that you refer to the hand made "edges" as tapes. > > *To me*, what one does with 3 (hair) or 4 (bobbins) strands is a > "plait". Which I prefer to see written, because I've, quite > consistenly, been mispronouncing it for 47 years (I say: "pleyt", not > "plat"). But a cord, that's "braided", not "plaited"; go figure... I > suppose, on the "if it's flat, it's a plait" principle (might help with > my ponounciation too )... I had no idea it was pronounced like that! The English language just keeps surprising me... > Russian and similiar (Idria etc) -- ie a plain-ish (cloth or half > stitch), narrow, meandering "thing" with fillings made "on the go" -- > that's "tape lace", *to me*. That what I always thought it was - I had no idea there was confusion with this term. > But Milanese... Now, that's a *braid* lace :) I learnt it from the > Read/Kincaid books, for one thing, and that's the term Pat Read uses, > so it stuck. But also, it wasn't difficult for me to "internalize" and > accept the difference in terminology, because of the great difference > in the *lace*. The meandering "thing" in Milanese isn't narrow, isn't > plain, and the fillings -- *if any* -- aren't made "on the go"; they're > added after. So, again, *to me*, "braid" is more complex than "plait". That sort of seems turned around - I always thought of braids as simple and plaits as possibly more complicated, not in lace, but just in general. But I'm not a native English speaker... > Mostly, I used to *think* (being the minority of one ) of it as > "ribbon and needlelace". But I've been getting more and more > dissatisfied with *that* also. Because, on the one hand, you have the > Princesse lace (the machine-made "ribbon", the needle-lace fillings, > but the lot applied to -- machine-made -- net). And, on the other hand, > you have the laces where the "ribbon" *isn't*; it's a *cord*, not flat > at all. And that cord can be either hand-made (like in Romanian lace > that Angela is spreading in the Western world), or machine-made (like > the Chinese? products, where the outlines seem to be made of very long > shoe-laces). "Ribbon and needlelace" works for Battenberg and > Branscombe, and, with some "extra", for Princesse, but not for those. I don't know anything about this sort of lace, but what you're describing sort of sounds like a really big and possibly flat gimp... > So, I'm as deep in the mud-pile as ever, and have learnt to ask what is > meant, *specifically*, whenever I see the term "tape" mentioned :) Sounds like a good idea Weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Braid lace/tape lace
In a message dated 12/05/2004 01:11:48 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > As far as I'm concerned, only two laces "belong" in that group: > Milanese and Chrysanthemum. And, of the 2, Chrysanthemum is "iffy", "on > the fence", as it were, since it uses only one decorated braid (and > that not always) and makes its (simple) fillings "on the go"... Then surely you must also include Spanish braid lace "Witch stitch", with its meander and figure of eight braids. Many thanks to everyone for your input on this subject, so far the concensus seems to be that there is even less clarity in the States than hereEven though *I* was taught braid is bobbin and tape is machine (my main teacher has been Pat Read) and it seems to be generally understood as such here, I am still always careful that those I am talking to are on the same wavelength to minimise confusion. Jacquie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Braid lace/tape lace
Hi Jackie and All, Some years ago on arachne we discussed this and decided to call Bobbin Lace "Braid Lace" and Battenberg style "Tape Lace". That lasted about 5 minutes . Like Tamara I always ask now. In the US Battenberg is the term usually used for the lace made with a purchased tape. However, the wonderful Batsford book by Ineke van den Kieboom and Anny Huijben on B'berg style lace is called "The Technique of Tape Lace". Nellie Trivett's book is called "The Technique of Branscombe Point Lace". So I thought that Tape lace was the term used in the UK and Europe for B'berg style lace that's not specifically Branscombe Point or Luxeuil. Though I guess Brussels lace and Renaissance lace may also be used. Is that confusing enough? Jane in Vermont, USA where the lilacs are perfuming the air. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Braid lace/tape lace
On May 11, 2004, at 6:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jacquie) wrote: I was always been taught that laces such as Russian and Milanese are braid laces and some of the fillings are done with plaits. Tape lace is a machine made tape tacked onto the pattern and secured with sewing and needle made fillings. However, since I have been exposed to American terminology on Arachne I have been very aware that as you refer to plaits (in lace and hair) as braids, it is necessary that you refer to the hand made "edges" as tapes. Throw into the mix someone who learnt *British* English in Poland, but who ended up in US, which is where she'd learnt lace, from books (of mixed origins)... and you get total confusion, without any rhyme or reason :) *To me*, what one does with 3 (hair) or 4 (bobbins) strands is a "plait". Which I prefer to see written, because I've, quite consistenly, been mispronouncing it for 47 years (I say: "pleyt", not "plat"). But a cord, that's "braided", not "plaited"; go figure... I suppose, on the "if it's flat, it's a plait" principle (might help with my ponounciation too )... Russian and similiar (Idria etc) -- ie a plain-ish (cloth or half stitch), narrow, meandering "thing" with fillings made "on the go" -- that's "tape lace", *to me*. That's because the Brit books referred to it as "Russian" lace, which was misleading in the extreme (not all Russian lace is tape and vice versa; not all tape lace is Russian). I wasn't comfortable with the term, and so embraced the "tape" concept with gratitude as soon as I'd seen it (have forgotten where)... But Milanese... Now, that's a *braid* lace :) I learnt it from the Read/Kincaid books, for one thing, and that's the term Pat Read uses, so it stuck. But also, it wasn't difficult for me to "internalize" and accept the difference in terminology, because of the great difference in the *lace*. The meandering "thing" in Milanese isn't narrow, isn't plain, and the fillings -- *if any* -- aren't made "on the go"; they're added after. So, again, *to me*, "braid" is more complex than "plait". As far as I'm concerned, only two laces "belong" in that group: Milanese and Chrysanthemum. And, of the 2, Chrysanthemum is "iffy", "on the fence", as it were, since it uses only one decorated braid (and that not always) and makes its (simple) fillings "on the go"... Have never "resolved", to my own satisfaction, the Honiton, Brugge and Duchesse (including the Withof version). Or Rosaline and Cantu. Each of those has some features of one kind, some of another... what generic term do you normally use to describe what I would think of as a tape lace to make it clear that it is not hand made bobbin lace but a mix of machine tape and needlelace? Sometimes, like Robin: I usually avoid the braid/tape controversy by calling the other kind "Battenberg family" or "lace made with pre-fab tapes". Mostly, I used to *think* (being the minority of one ) of it as "ribbon and needlelace". But I've been getting more and more dissatisfied with *that* also. Because, on the one hand, you have the Princesse lace (the machine-made "ribbon", the needle-lace fillings, but the lot applied to -- machine-made -- net). And, on the other hand, you have the laces where the "ribbon" *isn't*; it's a *cord*, not flat at all. And that cord can be either hand-made (like in Romanian lace that Angela is spreading in the Western world), or machine-made (like the Chinese? products, where the outlines seem to be made of very long shoe-laces). "Ribbon and needlelace" works for Battenberg and Branscombe, and, with some "extra", for Princesse, but not for those. So, I'm as deep in the mud-pile as ever, and have learnt to ask what is meant, *specifically*, whenever I see the term "tape" mentioned :) - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
