Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
Betty Ann You were also living in a lacemaking area, whereas I wasn't. So it may have been the location rather than the timing. I originally come from the northwest, but was living near Greenwich, London when I went to classes. Neither of which has a tradition of lacemaking to affect the naming of the lace Sue Babbs in Illinois USA - Original Message - From: Clive Betty Rice dol...@verizon.net To: lace@arachne.com Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English I began bobbin lace in 1977 while living in England and heard many times that in the old times it was known as pillow lace and bone lace. So, Sue I heard it in England but before you began lacemaking. Happy Lacemaking, Betty Ann Rice, Roanoke, Virginia USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
It is also interesting to put in a smaller year range, and come up with more detail eg from 1860-1880 http://tinyurl.com/27ue576 from 1954- 1962 http://tinyurl.com/2c5chxn - Original Message - From: robinl...@socal.rr.com To: Nancy Neff nnef...@yahoo.com; Arachne lace@arachne.com Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English Nancy Neff nnef...@yahoo.com wrote: Now what I would like to know is why is there such a spike in the frequency of the phrase bobbin lace in books in English in 1958 to 1960? and also a narrow one at 1900? (too narrow to be just the general lace revival I think) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
In those diagrams is machine-, needle-. bobbin- and pillow-lace mentioned. Could somebody tell me the difference between bobbin- and pillow-lace. Do they mean Teneriffe-lace? Or is pillow-lace the sum of needle- and bobbin-lace? Both are made on a pillow, needle lace in another sort of pillow ok. Only machine-lace isn't done on a pillow. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
Hi, I have always thought as bobbin lace being pillow lace (can also called bone lace). Needle lace, although it is mainly done on a pillow can also be done in the hand which makes it so handy to take when you are travelling. However, I am happy to keep an open mind as to what others have to say. Happy Christmas and Good Lace Making, Joepie in cold, dark and snowy East Sussex. -Original Message- From: Ilske Thomsen Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 4:52 PM To: Arachne Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English In those diagrams is machine-, needle-. bobbin- and pillow-lace mentioned. Could somebody tell me the difference between bobbin- and pillow-lace. Do they mean Teneriffe-lace? Or is pillow-lace the sum of needle- and bobbin-lace? Both are made on a pillow, needle lace in another sort of pillow ok. Only machine-lace isn't done on a pillow. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
My understanding of the terms is the same as yours, Joepie. Also I think the term pillow lace is more common in England than in the US--anyone: is that so? Nancy Connecticut--about to get snow but nothing like England has! (I hope) From: J-D Hammett jdhamm...@msn.com To: Ilske Thomsen ilske-peter-thom...@t-online.de; Arachne lace@arachne.com Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 12:18:23 PM Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English Hi, I have always thought as bobbin lace being pillow lace (can also called bone lace). Needle lace, although it is mainly done on a pillow can also be done in the hand which makes it so handy to take when you are travelling. However, I am happy to keep an open mind as to what others have to say. Happy Christmas and Good Lace Making, Joepie in cold, dark and snowy East Sussex. -Original Message- From: Ilske Thomsen Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 4:52 PM To: Arachne Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English In those diagrams is machine-, needle-. bobbin- and pillow-lace mentioned. Could somebody tell me the difference between bobbin- and pillow-lace. Do they mean Teneriffe-lace? Or is pillow-lace the sum of needle- and bobbin-lace? Both are made on a pillow, needle lace in another sort of pillow ok. Only machine-lace isn't done on a pillow. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
I think it is important for us to differentiate between what *we* have always thought, and what the writers of the particular books which were searched thought! I'm curious how the search works too... is it looking for word combinations that are exact, as in bobbin lace but not lace bobbin? Or is it searching for sentences that contain both words, but not necessarily together? All of these things make a huge difference. Clay On 12/18/2010 11:52 AM, Ilske Thomsen wrote: In those diagrams is machine-, needle-. bobbin- and pillow-lace mentioned. Could somebody tell me the difference between bobbin- and pillow-lace. Do they mean Teneriffe-lace? Or is pillow-lace the sum of needle- and bobbin-lace? Both are made on a pillow, needle lace in another sort of pillow ok. Only machine-lace isn't done on a pillow. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
I had never heard the term pillow lace in England where I learned bobbin lace from 1988 to 1999. I first came across it when demonstrating bobbin lace in the Chicago Botanic Gardens and was told quite firmly that I wasn't making bobbin lace, but pillow lace! News to me! Sue Babbs - Original Message - From: Nancy Neff nnef...@yahoo.com To: Arachne lace@arachne.com Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English My understanding of the terms is the same as yours, Joepie. Also I think the term pillow lace is more common in England than in the US--anyone: is that so? - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
I began bobbin lace in 1977 while living in England and heard many times that in the old times it was known as pillow lace and bone lace. I was also told that bone lace was because fish bones were used to support the threads before pins were invented. I do have some reference to that somewhere in one of my books. I've too much to do at the moment to search it out. So, Sue I heard it in England but before you began lacemaking. Happy Lacemaking, Betty Ann Rice, Roanoke, Virginia USA Dec 18, 2010 07:33:58 PM, sueba...@comcast.net wrote: I had never heard the term pillow lace in England where I learned bobbin lace from 1988 to 1999. I first came across it when demonstrating bobbin lace in the Chicago Botanic Gardens and was told quite firmly that I wasn't making bobbin lace, but pillow lace! News to me! Sue Babbs /nneff6 2...@yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
Hi Nancy: Statistical analysis isn't my thing, but I do have some thoughts: - Only a small number of people buy single topic lace-making books, but when bobbin lace is included in a book with a wider-ranging content - take Weldon's Encyclopedia of Needlework, for instance; or de Dillmont's, - it might look like all of a sudden a lot of bobbin lace books are being published, but really a lot of books that include bobbin lace as one of many topics are being published. - I'm wondering if the 1960 spike isn't perhaps something to do with the Anchor Manual of Needlework coming out in 1958. That edition included lacework. - I wonder if the database counts each subsequent edition of the same book as a new book (after all, in modern times it would have a new ISBN number) So the books that have had many editions (all those mentioned so far, for example) might be included once for each edition. - Sometimes a book comes out that is insignificant on its own, but sows seeds of enquiry. Then a few years later suddenly several books come out, to fill the demand from people who learned from the first book and then discovered there weren't any more books on their topic. - I'm not really sure what the measurement is in the vertical axis of the chart. I've been assuming it is the percentage of the books included in the database that contain the keyword. If so, to some extent the graph tracks the social acceptability and popularity of the subject. Today we might be surprised if a scholarly discussion of craft contained anything about lace, but 150 years ago the topic crops up in all sorts of publications - like books on industrial design, for example, as new lace machines were being made and people like Christopher Dresser were designing for them. - Regarding the dates - A lot of books published, even in the beginning of the 20th century, didn't have accurate publication dates printed in them. Sometimes there was no publication data at all, and you have to guess at when it was published by looking at the printing and the illustrations and the cover and so on. So the big jump at 1900 makes me suspect that the people who put the data in the database just looked at a book and said something like Well, judging from the cover design it's probably later than the 1880s and judging from the illustrations it's probably pre-WWI so let's put down 1900. An interesting topic! Thanks for bringing it up. Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) Now what I would like to know is why is there such a spike in the frequency of the phrase bobbin lace in books in English in 1958 to 1960? and also a narrow one at 1900? (too narrow to be just the general lace revival I think) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] bobbin lace in print in English
Nancy Neff nnef...@yahoo.com wrote: Now what I would like to know is why is there such a spike in the frequency of the phrase bobbin lace in books in English in 1958 to 1960? and also a narrow one at 1900? (too narrow to be just the general lace revival I think) How did the figures shown on the left-hand side of the graph compare to other graphs? The huge spikes you mention are less than 2-hundred-thousandths of 1 percent. Now, granted, out of 5 million books, anything about BL will be a small percent. But the difference between 0 and 2-hundred-thousandths is not really all that huge. The spike could be one or two books that mention BL several times, couldn't it? Robin Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
