Re: [lace] lace and glue -- final report
On 30/09/2010 02:17, lacel...@frontier.com wrote: Wanted to report that the glue problem is solved. The bookmarks are safe. One collar had a silk ribbon through a cucumber edge on the footside. The glue was only on the ribbon, so I removed it and will replace with new. That was easy. The two bookmarks were next. I tried my 'old faithful' method of removing sticky with sticky. I tapped the glue spot with cellophane tape. A bit of the glue would stick to the tape with each tap and gently pull off. By repeated taps, I got all the glue off the sturdy bookmark. Then very carefully I worked at the delicate bookmark. Thankfully, it, bit by bit, came off with only one broken thread, and one diamond was pulled a bit crooked. Judiciously adjusting the threads brought it back to almost normal position. The little broken thread doesn't show, and I'll just leave it that way. The threads have been set in their positions for years, and stay there by habit. These glue spots were supposed to be removable..but I noticed that they would not come off the paper and plastic signs that had been put up. (I have learned that they were 'Zots'. I don't recommend them.) So, the biggest damage done was the broken clear ruler that had a lace strip inside it. I can find out the price of the rulers, and submit that (and the replacement ribbon) as my damage. There's no way to pay me for mental anguish. I reported the whole thing to the List to alert all of you to this modern hazard on setting up displays. When I left the lady, I had given permission to put the lace up with pins. The lady in charge was also there, and heard my statement, so she can verify the conversation. If you ever have to leave some lace for someone else to mount, be very specific on what you will and will not allow. The idea of using glue dots on fine fiber had never ever entered my mind, or I would have been more specific. This was the first time that I had not been involved with the display of my lace. Usually I set up the displays wherever I take it. I guess we can all live and learn. Thank you to all who had suggestions or commiserations. It's nice to have sympathetic friends. Alice in Oregon . getting ready for Lace Day next Saturday, and it's supposed to be good weather. What a relief that you've been able to rescue it almost unscathed. Thank you for sharing the experience so that we can all be aware. Lesley - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue -- final report
(Removed Zots from lace that was on display) A search on Zots describes them as memory, and that they are for permanent archival paper use. Astounding that someone would use that kind of product on a textile, much less the fact that it is designed for permanent applications. Again, people don't realize how much work goes into lace (or perhaps don't care). So glad that you rectified the situation. I would even be nervous even with pins as they could break the fibers, and would probably specify that they were used within the lace holes, and placed at angles (and would offer to mount it myself). Perhaps bringing pre-mounted lace could counter some of this, as even if it wasn't used, it would provide an example, and the tools to use (and one could choose the background color for best effect). Best, Susan Reishus - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue -- final report, a question
If you ever have to leave some lace for someone else to mount, be very specific on what you will and will not allow. Alice, Susan has suggested that displays be premounted and you have mentioned that you never had had anyone mount a display for you before. I myself am in possession of a large piece of blue felt, pins, and a cluster of Do not touch the lace signs. In fact, I can't recall anyone ever suggesting that I not contrive my own display, with a minimum of provided equipment. I even bring along my mother's old card table, just in case. The fact that you had to turn over your things for mounting (to an imbecile, it would seem), when you, yourself, are an excellent display maker has me wondering in what context this thing occurred. Was there some reason, such as not knowing the size of the area that you would be allotted or the requirements for a uniformity of appearance at the demo that resulted in your having to turn over your lace for mounting? I would be grateful if you could explain how this happened so that we could all be on the alert to not let it happen to us. For one thing, I can't really understand how anyone who knows so little about lace could mount a lace display in a logical fashion that would be informative to those seeing it. What steps could have been taken to prevent someone else from having that kind of access to your lace that would allow them to destroy it? The whole thing makes my blood run cold. After all, it is not as though you were turning it over to a trained conservator. It is hard for me to imagine what artifacts, short of disposable brochures could withstand the Zot treatment without harm. Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue -- a question - long answer
Here is the story...rather long. Normally, when the local lacemakers exhibit our lace, we set it up. We are given a table (or two) and told to do whatever we want. Most of us have folding display boards with lace already mounted. We just unfold and stand them up. I carry a blue cloth or two for tables. 3-D items, pillows, books, and whatever are put on the tables. I also have a card table that I take if needed. This Flock and Fiber Festival has a Gallery area that features 2-3 artists. There's lots of space, and fancy signs/labels for everything. One lady sets this display up each year. This was the very first time they ever had lace. It's usually knitting, weaving or spinning. Much bulkier items. I exchanged lots of emails with this lady, trying to find out how much space there was, tables, glass cases, etc. We discussed having lace in glass cases and one table. She wanted the lace in lace type groupings, and wanted special write ups of each piece. Stories on each piece work well when there are only 6 or 10 items. With my tiny lace pieces, I had dozens. I wrote them up in groups by type, explaining a bit about the type and where it originated. Some items had special stories. I had a map of Europe with the appropriate places marked. I also took a copy of the newspaper story about me lace a few years ago. I asked how big the labels would be, but got no answer. I guessed, and put some of the groupings on my display boards, ready for the labels. Other groupings were planned for inside a glass case. (This fairgrounds has a large assortment of glass cases of all sizes and styles.) The lady was two hours late meeting me there. Knowing I had a time deadline for leaving because of a special event I had to be at that evening, and also knowing the lady would have absolutely no knowledge of lace, I found a table and sorted out my laces in piles on the table, making notes on each pile. The lady had brought bolts of backing material, blue for the lace and other colors for the other artists. I knew the lace pieces could pin very nicely to the heavy fabric. I had pins with me and offered them to her. She said she had pins. Then I had to leave. My husband would never forgive me if I didn't get home in time to attend the Kiwanis Dinner. This was to be the first time ever that both the International President and International President-Elect both attended a small club installation dinner. They each traveled a long way to get here, one from Washington and one from Illinois. This club had increased their membership from 46 to 77 in one yearsomething never done before. When I got home, I had 5 minutes to feed the cats, 5 minutes to change clothes, and we were on our way. The display was very attractive. The area was U-shaped with one artist on each wall. I had one side wall plus a glass case in the middle of it. My demo pillow was in front of the glass case...about 2 meters ahead so there was plenty of people room. Two extra pillows with lace in process, and the 3-D objects were in the case. My vase of lace roses, clear glass boxes of corsages, and a shawl were on top of the glass case. The rest of the lace was on the wall, in groupings, with large labels. My story had been laminated and featured on tagboard backing. My name and other info was on another tagboard. It was easy to see and was spread out enough that a lot of people could look at one time. The only negative thing was the gluedots. If I didn't have to leave, I would have stayed to help her..and would have vetoed the dots from the very start. In hind sight, I should have gone back the next day to check on it, but the location was an hour's drive from my house. I made that drive three times, as it was300 miles of driving. They paid for my lunch one day, but that was only a fourth of what I spent on gasoline. I promoted lace and may have enticed one new lacemaker. My lace guild will get a bunch of volunteer hours in their record book for this venture. I learned from this venture...and hopefully alerted everyone else to be aware of how non-lace people think. My lady wasn't trying to hurt my lace. She just had no concept of how to handle it. I had too busy a schedule that day. And I spent most of the next day writing my speech on History of Lace that I gave on Sunday. I was late arriving Saturday because I had lace meeting first, and was starting a new lacemaker so I had to attend it. Besides, I had the key to the building-just too many irons in the fire. Alice in Oregon - Original Message - From: dmt11h...@aol.com ... The fact that you had to turn over your things for mounting ... when you, yourself, are an excellent display maker has me wondering in what context this thing occurred. Was there some reason, such as not knowing the size of the area that you would be allotted or the requirements for a uniformity of appearance
[lace] lace and glue -- final report
Wanted to report that the glue problem is solved. The bookmarks are safe. One collar had a silk ribbon through a cucumber edge on the footside. The glue was only on the ribbon, so I removed it and will replace with new. That was easy. The two bookmarks were next. I tried my 'old faithful' method of removing sticky with sticky. I tapped the glue spot with cellophane tape. A bit of the glue would stick to the tape with each tap and gently pull off. By repeated taps, I got all the glue off the sturdy bookmark. Then very carefully I worked at the delicate bookmark. Thankfully, it, bit by bit, came off with only one broken thread, and one diamond was pulled a bit crooked. Judiciously adjusting the threads brought it back to almost normal position. The little broken thread doesn't show, and I'll just leave it that way. The threads have been set in their positions for years, and stay there by habit. These glue spots were supposed to be removable..but I noticed that they would not come off the paper and plastic signs that had been put up. (I have learned that they were 'Zots'. I don't recommend them.) So, the biggest damage done was the broken clear ruler that had a lace strip inside it. I can find out the price of the rulers, and submit that (and the replacement ribbon) as my damage. There's no way to pay me for mental anguish. I reported the whole thing to the List to alert all of you to this modern hazard on setting up displays. When I left the lady, I had given permission to put the lace up with pins. The lady in charge was also there, and heard my statement, so she can verify the conversation. If you ever have to leave some lace for someone else to mount, be very specific on what you will and will not allow. The idea of using glue dots on fine fiber had never ever entered my mind, or I would have been more specific. This was the first time that I had not been involved with the display of my lace. Usually I set up the displays wherever I take it. I guess we can all live and learn. Thank you to all who had suggestions or commiserations. It's nice to have sympathetic friends. Alice in Oregon . getting ready for Lace Day next Saturday, and it's supposed to be good weather. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
Alice et al, I do sympathise greatly with the dilemma, but have no suggestions as to the removal of the glue.What a disaster!But the question of the 'worth' of lace opens up a whole can of worms, I feel. I belonged to an Art Group, which had several splinter groups, such as the potters, as well as the painters, but a lace group also.We always produced work to display in the bi-annual exhibitions but our lace was rarely for sale, as the hours spent on just a small and relatively simple bookmark made it such that if we charged about £2.50 for it, it seemed to denigrate the art of lace. If we attempted to charge say £5.00 per hour for the work - which is very much lower than house-cleaning, babysitting, plumbers (!) and garage mechanics - said bookmark would roll out at about £100.00 minimum!Which would probably occasion heart-failure in anyone who enquired ... When I have been asked to carry out commissions, I usually ask if the person enquiring realises how time-intensive bobbin-lace-making (as well as most other crafts) is - if they seem content with thinking about that, then they are hopefully sitting down when I give a rough calculation of the hours and remuneration - I have to admit that that is very often the end of the enquiry, but there have been people who have commissioned work, been pleased with whatever it is, and have sometimes asked for other pieces. So - I would probably go for broke, and say each bookmark was worth, to me, £100.00 (of course, that is sterling, but could be converted to USA dollars etc) and take it from there.The cost may encourage the organisers to be a little more circumspect when they apply their nasty little stickers next time... Carol - in Suffolk UK 'Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day.' - Original Message - From: lacel...@frontier.com To: lace_arachne.com lace@arachne.com Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:01 AM Subject: [lace] lace and glue After it was much too late, I found out that the lady who set up the display used glue dots to stick the lace to the fabric panels. I about came 'unglued' when I discovered it, and the person in charge of the whole thing got an earful of my thoughts. Alice in Oregonexpecting improving weather and sunshine for Lace Day. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
I agree, Carol... Except that I would be specific about the number of hours it took to make it, and give a reasonable rate for skilled work... $15 per hour is not unreasonable. When the total is computed, it will have the desired effect, and you won't see glue dots again! Clay On 9/28/2010 10:32 AM, Carol wrote: Alice et al, /snip/ So - I would probably go for broke, and say each bookmark was worth, to me, £100.00 (of course, that is sterling, but could be converted to USA dollars etc) and take it from there.The cost may encourage the organisers to be a little more circumspect when they apply their nasty little stickers next time... Carol - in Suffolk UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
Clay wrote. and give a reasonable rate for skilled work... $15 per hour is not unreasonable. I think that the Ontario minimum wage is around $10+ and I find $15 is only a little over minimum wage. Car mechanics, plumbers, electricians charge well over $50, computer tech charges $88 per hour! So why would our skill and expertise be less valuable? Malvary in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
I think that putting a price on our hobby lace is at cross-purposes. For insurance it could be the cost of replacing materials which is 'meh' for the amount of thread in a bookmark. The majority of us don't make lace for money and the value in making it is personal. How about 'priceless' ? On 9/26/10, lacel...@frontier.com lacel...@frontier.com wrote: . By the waythe Festival chairman said damages would be covered by their insurance, and I need to submit the value of the damaged items. How much is a bookmark worth? -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
Trades such as plumbing and electrical work aren't hobbies really, are they? Car mechanics - some do that as a hobby but it is otherwise a trade. I think we are comparing apples and oranges here ;) In my opinion as expressed already our lacemaking is priceless :D On 9/28/10, Malvary J Cole malva...@sympatico.ca wrote: Car mechanics, plumbers, electricians charge well over $50, computer tech charges $88 per hour! So why would our skill -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
I think 'priceless' covers it - after pointing out the length of time required to make the item. When I put anything in a show or on public display I'm aware that there is an off-chance that it could stolen, or ruined in some way. The glue-dot was an unpleasant surprise :( When one of a kind is ruined no amount of money is going to replace it. On 9/28/10, Margery Allcock margerybu...@o2.co.uk wrote: How about 'priceless' ? But for the purposes of insurance at a show, and to give the glue dot lady an idea of what she is handling, putting a price on my work is useful; and -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
I totally agree with you on the value of our work! I think that the difference is, car mechanics and plumbers and electricians provide services that we find hard to live without when we need them... but a lacemaker is an expendible luxury. That's why you rarely (if ever...) see a lacemaker working for $50 an hour - no one has agreed to pay them! So... my figure of $15 was selected as being over minimum wage - although barely. Still, when computed for purposes of loss, it gives a value to the piece that will get their attention. OTOH, you could *try* saying, I would not do this work for less than $50 an hour, which is why I don't sell my work. On 9/28/2010 12:11 PM, Malvary J Cole wrote: Clay wrote. and give a reasonable rate for skilled work... $15 per hour is not unreasonable. I think that the Ontario minimum wage is around $10+ and I find $15 is only a little over minimum wage. Car mechanics, plumbers, electricians charge well over $50, computer tech charges $88 per hour! So why would our skill and expertise be less valuable? Malvary in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] lace and glue
I have good and bad to report from the Oregon Flock and Fiber Festival this weekend. The display of my lace looked very nice. I spent most of two days at my pillow, talking to people. I think we got one new student from it. I gave my speech about the History of Lace, and it lasted, with questions, exactly the 30 minutes allowed. OK...the 'Bad'After it was much too late, I found out that the lady who set up the display used glue dots to stick the lace to the fabric panels. I about came 'unglued' when I discovered it, and the person in charge of the whole thing got an earful of my thoughts. Several other lacemakers came to demo with me, and helped me take things down. We ended up with two bookmarks that the glue would not lift off. My question...does anyone have any experience with removing these so-called Removable sticky glue dots from thread? Both bookmarks are Bucks Point, and one has very fine threads. I'm wondering if I can use something like Acetone to dissolve the glue, then wash the bookmarks. Suggestions welcome. By the waythe Festival chairman said damages would be covered by their insurance, and I need to submit the value of the damaged items. How much is a bookmark worth? I could probably re-make the two patterns in about 20 hours, if I really wanted to, not counting the time it would take to find the patterns first. I made them many years ago. Next eventLace Day next Saturday. Anyone near Portland, Oregon, can contact me for details. We'd love to have visitors. Alice in Oregonexpecting improving weather and sunshine for Lace Day. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] lace and glue
Don't know if this would be safe. If it's the type of glue that is used on post-it notes and the type of sticky label that has a backing that you peel off, I bought a bottle of orange-scented liquid called Sticky Stuff Remover, which removes the residue left behind if you peel such a label off. My local shop says there's no need to waste money on buying something special - they use eucalyptus oil with the same result when removing sticky labels from the front of their shelves. Problem is I've only removed residue from something that can be removed by putting the solvent on a cloth and rubbing, which wouldn't be a good idea with lace. Don't know if either would work if just applied. Could you contact a manufacturer of the glue dots and ask if they can recommend anything? Jean in Poole,Dorset, UK. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] lace and glue 2
Another thought: Would freezing work? It does with chewing gum, making it easy to break off, provided it hasn't penetrated. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] lace and glue
Hi Alice: Ouch. So sorry this happened. The suggestion of contacting the manufacturer is really good, because what you need to use to take it off depends on what glue was used in the dots. I've found (trying to get sticky stuff off of old books) that some things come off with rubbing alcohol, some with lighter fluid, some with oil - but whatever one works, the other products don't work at all. You don't want to wind up treating your lace three times with three different things before you find the one that works. You've actually got a couple of problems here. One is to get the dots to detach from the lace. The other is to get the residue off the lace. Glue removal products dissolve the glue into themselves. That lessens the bond and you can take the dot off. But, the stickum isn't gone, it's just dissolved into the liquid, and so it is thinned out. Volatile oil compounds, whatever they are, will then dissipate, but they will leave the thinned-out glue behind. So now instead of a bit of glue where the dots were, you've got a tiny bit of glue distributed throughout the piece. If the glue removal product isn't a volatile compound, then you've got to wash the piece - probably soaking it in detergent. Only you know quite how badly the dot is stuck on, and what it is stuck to. I'd take it off by pulling if I could at all. In fact, even if I wound up snapping a couple of threads, I'd rather repair the lace than use a glue removal product. But, maybe if you're very gentle you can get it off with using a glue remover. Hope this helps. Adele North Vancouver, BC On 2010-09-26, at 11:01 PM, lacel...@frontier.com wrote: I have good and bad to report from the Oregon Flock and Fiber Festival this weekend. The display of my lace looked very nice. I spent most of two days at my pillow, talking to people. I think we got one new student from it. I gave my speech about the History of Lace, and it lasted, with questions, exactly the 30 minutes allowed. OK...the 'Bad'After it was much too late, I found out that the lady who set up the display used glue dots to stick the lace to the fabric panels. I about came 'unglued' when I discovered it, and the person in charge of the whole thing got an earful of my thoughts. Several other lacemakers came to demo with me, and helped me take things down. We ended up with two bookmarks that the glue would not lift off. My question...does anyone have any experience with removing these so-called Removable sticky glue dots from thread? Both bookmarks are Bucks Point, and one has very fine threads. I'm wondering if I can use something like Acetone to dissolve the glue, then wash the bookmarks. Suggestions welcome. By the waythe Festival chairman said damages would be covered by their insurance, and I need to submit the value of the damaged items. How much is a bookmark worth? I could probably re-make the two patterns in about 20 hours, if I really wanted to, not counting the time it would take to find the patterns first. I made them many years ago. Next eventLace Day next Saturday. Anyone near Portland, Oregon, can contact me for details. We'd love to have visitors. Alice in Oregonexpecting improving weather and sunshine for Lace Day. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
