Re: [lace] pronounciation of lace names
Devon i think i 'd use both ...firt say it the *learned* way then the way everybody in the audience can understand ... and use a little witty phrase to get people to smile to that *translation* Point de neige is indeed french and means snow point by the way dominique from Paris .. [EMAIL PROTECTED] a décidé d' écrire à Ò[lace] pronounciation of lace namesÓ. [2004/09/03 15:58] How should I pronounce it for the slide show. If I say Point, do I sound like a boob? If I say Pwont will the audience be so busy puzzling out what I am saying that they will miss the rest of the commentary? Will some people think me elitist? - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] pronounciation of lace names
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], lapalme [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes If I'm speaking English, and there is an English translation for the French term, I use the English translation. Sitting here reading the thread on this, I'm thinking, as an English English person, I would say Point de Neige rather than pwan as we were taught point is pronounced in French. Then, it dawned on me, English translation... the other day we actually travelled (in the car) down a road called Whitestitch Lane. (In Meriden, for anyone in the English Midlands). Of course, Point de Neige translates literally to Snow Stitch, so maybe it answers my mused question as to what White stitch was? -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] pronounciation of lace names
I am doing a slide show about lace for lacmakers, some of whom may collect, but most of whom are lacemakers. I am planning to mention in passing that a piece is Gros Point, or Point de Angleterre or Rose point or Point de Neige. In one case, I am actually saying Rose Point (rather than Point de Rose) and Point de Neige in the same sentence. Rose Point is arguably English, whereas Point de Neige is arguably French. Since I mostly read lace names and rarely discuss them, I tend to say Point as we say it in English. I realize that it is pronounced Pwont in French. How should I pronounce it for the slide show. If I say Point, do I sound like a boob? If I say Pwont will the audience be so busy puzzling out what I am saying that they will miss the rest of the commentary? Will some people think me elitist? Fortunately I do not have any Tonder in the show. When I say Tonder, I am invariable corrected to Tooner. When I say Tooner, people in the US say, what? Likewise the problem with Chantilly. When I say Chanteeyay, I am met with blank stares. Most people are familiar with the pronounciation Chantilly from the Country Western song Chantilly Lace. Santina Levey espouses a philosophy of eliminating French names of lace whenever possible as hopelessly Victorian. However, Point de Angleterre somehow conveys more than Brussels Bobbin lace to many people who read about lace and I think she even uses the term herself. LIkewise Point de Neige does not seem to have an English counterpart except fine needle lace from Venice. Does one approach this issue as though everyone in the audience is sophisticated enough to know the pronunciation rules of every language or does one pronounce things the way they would be pronounced in the language that you are speaking in? Devon who realizes that she doesn't even know how her own last name would be pronounced in the European country of its origin, Luxemburg. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pronounciation of lace names
Does one approach this issue as though everyone in the audience is sophisticated enough to know the pronunciation rules of every language or does one pronounce things the way they would be pronounced in the language that you are speaking in? Hi Devon: My 2 cents: This problem makes you tread carefully - I think there's a fine line between sounding knowledgeable and sounding like a pompous snob. And the pronounciation rules of every language are subject to local variance. Think about New Orleans vs N'alins and all the possibilities in between that you will get in your own country! Then, even the so-called knowledgeable people say things differently - we've already gone over the many pronunciations of Binche on this list - I think I had eight or nine at last count, and it's a one-syllable word! When I am speaking English I say the words as a speaker of English, except that I tend to use the French pwan rather than Point when I say French names - but in Canada most people have a few years of French schooling under their belt. If I am speaking to people who will I think may be confused by pwan I just say Point the English way. I rhyme Binche with pinch and let the chips fall where they may. I say Tonder with the d. I have no trouble with you saying Rose Point and Pwan de Neige in the same sentence. I think we in North America worry more about correct pronunciation than a lot of other people. Let's get over it! I think the most important thing is to communicate what I mean, and I speak with the goal of having the people I am talking to understand me. Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pronounciation of lace names
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I mostly read lace names and rarely discuss them, I tend to say Point as we say it in English. I realize that it is pronounced Pwont in French. How should I pronounce it for the slide show. Devon, I definitely see the problem. Here's the way I do it: If I'm speaking English, and there is an English translation for the French term, I use the English translation. Same in French, if there is a French translation. For example, when speaking in French, I refer to London as Londres. Why? Because otherwise, people just don't seem to understand. On the other hand, if there is no translation, then I use the original pronounciation, of the other language. If I get lots of blank stares, I stop and explain the term, then keep on using it. I guess I may be a bit more sensitive to some of this than most, because I'm French Canadian, but live and work in a bilingual society that is mainly English. You have no idea how many times my name can be anglicized in one day, and it gets frustrating. I feel like a keep on repeating myself. My first name is Lise-Aurore, but stop at Lise. Simple. Pronounced like lees. You have no idea how many times I get to say, No Lise, not Lisa, there is no A at the end. Or, No Lise, not Liz, it's with an se, not a z at the end. And that's just the first part of the name. Personally, I find that I understand if someone pronounces it wrong if they have only seen it in writing and never heard it, but for people who have heard the pronounciation, then I find it rather insulting when they anglicize it. So, given all that unnecessary information, I guess I'm suggesting that you use the English translation when possible, and then the French pronounciation when there is no translation. And that should be really good and confusing!!! Lise-Aurore in Ottawa, where the sun is shining and the temperature is headin to 29C - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pronounciation of lace names
Dear Devon I love your quandary. Shrug off all the nailbiters and the obsessives, and all the experts too (!) and listen to Aurelia who has actually stood up on museum stages and spoken as follows: Rose Point: Rohz Poynt Point d'Angleterre: Poynt dahng-let-terr (yes, Poynt, that's right) Gros Point: Groh Poynt (see, we aren't French) Point de Neige: Pwont de Nezh (we're still not French, but nevermind) Chantilly: Shan Tillie Just in case Tonder creeps in, try Turner, as we say in Baltimore No dear heart, you will never sound like a boob no matter what you say (didn't know boobs made sounds; just goes to show you) Santina Levey? Who she? - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
