[lace] Lace Tells, etc.

[Elizabeth Ligeti.]

Many of the Bucks Point prickings have only about an inch of dots for the
ground pins. It took a long time for me to find out that this was because
after the last row of ground pins the lacemakers would be able to work the
ground without any pins, so the work would be a lot faster.
I wonder if the tells were spoken quicker, or were there different tells for
working faster ground? !!
These are the sorts of mysteries that will never be answered, but are
fascinating to ponder on!

(OK, we are in the midst of a sudden heatwave, - so maybe I have had too much
sun!! :)  )

If only I could remember more of Grandma’s stories about those days!!  I
always enjoyed listening to them,. But never listened hard enough to remember
them!!
Thank goodness for people like Thomas Wright!!

Regards from Liz. In Melbourne, Oz.

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[lace] Sorry, forgot to trim lace tells posting

[DevonThein]

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [lace] Lace tells & History

[Diana Smith]

A little more history behind the boy throwing his pillow down the well at 
Elstow. This was supposedly Ernie Cooper. 
The Coopers were quite a large family many of them lace makers. I have a copy 
of a photograph of a dozen members of Cooper family lined up sitting at their 
lace pillows. Centre front is a boy at his lace pillow, not Ernie but Vic 
Cooper who judging by the smile on his face seems to be enjoying his lace work. 

Diana in Northamptonshire

Original message
>From : lizl...@bigpond.com
Date : 05/11/2017 - 01:12 (GMTST)
To : lace@arachne.com
Subject : [lace] Lace tells & History


There is a delightful story of a Lace School in Elstow (I think) where a boy
got so mad at his lace, that he grabbed his pillow ran outside, and dropped
the pillow etc down the well!!

Regards from Liz. In still wintery Melbourne, Oz.

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[lace] Lace tells & History

[Elizabeth Ligeti.]

Thank you all for your contributions which has made such interesting reading.
The History of Lace and these tells is fascinating..

The men learned lacemaking as children, and as agricultural workers they were
dependant on the weather, - so during times of bad weather, they were able to
earn a few pennies by making lace, until they were able to return to the
land.
There is a delightful story of a Lace School in Elstow (I think) where a boy
got so mad at his lace, that he grabbed his pillow ran outside, and dropped
the pillow etc down the well!!

My family came from around the Bedford area – not far from Olney! – and I
have recently found out that they were Straw Plaiters, too. This, I am told ,
was common amongst Lace makers, as the same Cross & Twist is used to plait the
straw, and was very Portable, so they could plait some straw while walking to
market, and then sell it to the Luton Hat makers – Luton being also not far
away, and the centre for straw hats, boaters, etc.

This is a whole different story, though!  But interesting how one leads to
the other!!

Regards from Liz. In still wintery Melbourne, Oz.

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Re: [lace] Fwd: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference (Long Post)

[Diana Smith]

Dear Jeri and all

For a moment I thought you were referring to a book I have in my collection 
then realised my error. My A5 size green cloth bound book is entitled ‘Olney 
and the Lace-Makers’ published in 1864 by William Macintosh, London. It doesn’t 
mention an author but a receipt attached to the book names a Mrs Vernon.

I quote from the book: 
Upon inquiry, a friend residing at Olney has supplied me with the following 
particulars respecting the songs of “the lacemakers.”
“The children learn to make lace, not so much at home with their mothers, as at 
lace schools kept by dames. When the lace trade was better, most boys used to 
learn as well as the girls; and even men used to make lace, as they could earn 
more at ‘the pillow’ than at agricultural labour. I have seen old men who made 
good wages at the beginning of this century.”
“The ‘Songs of the Lace-Makers’ were of the same class as the Nursery rhymes, 
and were sung by the children while at work. The proficiency of the children 
was estimated by the number of pins they could stick in an hour. They were set 
so many score of pins, and counted as they went on. The singing, or rather 
chanting, assisted them in the counting, and also kept them together in their 
work. I am told that we cannot imagine either the effect of thirty or forty 
children’s voices uniting in this ‘sing-song’, nor yet the aid it was to them.
“These ‘Lace Tellings,’ as they were called, were repeated over and over, the 
number at the beginning lessening as the task appointed neared its conclusion, 
as - 
‘Nineteen miles have I got to go.’
‘Eighteen miles have I got to go.’
‘Seventeen miles have I got to go’.
“It is only the very old people who remember anything about these ‘Lace 
Tellings’, as they have not been used in the schools about Olney for many 
years. Latterly they have sung hymns, or some of the current songs of the day.
“From the specimens we have been able to collect from the memories of the old 
Lace-Maker in the *portrait, and one of her friends, few will be disposed to 
regret that the old ‘Tellings’ have become obsolete. These that follow are 
evidently the ‘Songs of the Lace-Makers’ mentioned in the Northamptonshire 
Glossary, as assisting ‘the young workers;’ and are thrown aside with other 
childish things on leaving the Lace school”.
*in the book is a lovely illustration of an elderly lacemakers and young girl 
working at their pillows.

I have left out the Tellings in the interest of space. If anyone would like 
them please contact me privately.

Diana in Northamptonshire.

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Re: [lace] tells

[Maureen]

Thank you.

Regards 
Maureen
E Yorks UK

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RE: [lace] Fwd: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference (Long Post)

[J-D Hammett]

Hi Devon, Jeri and fellow Arachnids,

Thank you Devon and Jeri for your very interesting (long) email on this book
and on lace tells.

Joepie


From: Devon Thein<mailto:devonth...@gmail.com>
Sent: 03 November 2017 16:19
To: lace@arachne.com<mailto:lace@arachne.com>
Subject: [lace] Fwd: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference
(Long Post)

>From Jeri


--
From: jeria...@aol.com
To: www.l...@arachne.com<http://www.l...@arachne.com>
Sent: 11/3/2017 10:50:14 AM Eastern Standard Time
Subject: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference (Long
Post)

Subject is the sub-title of a book published in 1890 by Seeley and Co.,
Limited, Essex Street Strand.   Main title is "On the Banks of the Ouse",
written by Emma Marshall.

This is a little-known work of fiction about life in 1790 (Jane Austen era
1775-1817) that some might like to read not only for the reference to Lace
Tells but also for other lace-related descriptions of that time, and by my
sharing, this will be in our Arachne archives. <...
..>

Submitted by Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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[lace] tells

[Lorelei Halley]

I found this url on Facebook. I can't remember if anybody has already posted
it.

http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-e
nglish-lace-schools 

 

Lorelei

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[lace] Fwd: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference (Long Post)

[Devon Thein]

>From Jeri


--
From: jeria...@aol.com
To: www.l...@arachne.com
Sent: 11/3/2017 10:50:14 AM Eastern Standard Time
Subject: Life in Olney a Hundred Years Ago - Lace Tells Reference (Long
Post)

Subject is the sub-title of a book published in 1890 by Seeley and Co.,
Limited, Essex Street Strand.   Main title is "On the Banks of the Ouse",
written by Emma Marshall.

This is a little-known work of fiction about life in 1790 (Jane Austen era
1775-1817) that some might like to read not only for the reference to Lace
Tells but also for other lace-related descriptions of that time, and by my
sharing, this will be in our Arachne archives.  Being fiction, it is not
scanned to the Arizona site.  One of you will probably find an address to
share where anyone interested can read a scanned copy of the book without
spending what I did for the original.

Comment, please, so gmail users will know about this posting and read in
our archive.

Quote starting on page 56:

Drusilla Allen's cottage was, as she had told Cuthbert, not far from the
Round House or town prison, and between it and the house occupied for so
may years by the poet Cowper.

Drusilla's cottage had a large room, with oak rafters, which served for the
living-room of the family.  The door was generally open, and the women who
sat at the lace-pillows were near it, for light was precious, and the small
lattice-windows did not admit much of either sun or air.

By the wide hearth a sickly, elderly woman lay propped up with pillows,
scarcely able to move hand or foot, crippled with rheumatism and wholly
dependent on the exertions of her daughter, Drusilla.  There was the child,
too, of a widowed sister to support -- a fair-haired, blue-eyed little
maiden, whose bright presence Drusilla could ill have spared.  Her sister
was supposed to take her part in keeping the house tidy, wait on her
mother, and perform all the little offices in the household which
Drusilla's work prevented her from sharing.

Early and late the lace-makers were at their pillows.  Olney was then a
lace-making town.  We are told that there were lace schools, where twenty
or thirty children were taught by "old hands", whose monotonous singing of
songs, called "lace tellings", might be heard at any hour of the day, as
travellers passed the cottages, whose doors, like Drusilla's, were mostly
open.

On this bright summer morning Drusilla was seated at her pillow, with three
workers round her.

One of these, a young girl, was employed to turn the bobbin wheel and fill
the bobbins with thread.  The others were wholly engrossed with their
pillows, supported partly on their knees, and partly by a pillow-horse, a
kind of wooden stool with three legs.  There was no lace-maker in Olney
more expert than Drusilla, and there was always a rivalry amongst the young
women to be employed by her.

The lace-workers, too, prided themselves on the smartness of their pillows;
the rows of pins had bright-coloured heads, made of beads, and the bobbins
were gaily spangled; sometimes carved with the initials of the possessor;
often glittering with coins and beads.  These bobbins were very highly
prized, and sometimes descended in one family as an heirloom.

Submitted by Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Maureen]

Thank you everyone.

Maureen
E Yorks UK

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Liz Roberts]

To get it to work, I highlighted the highlighted area, plus the next line and 
copied it to a new search box. I don't know why, but sometimes in emails, the 
last part of a link doesn't get saved (highlighted) as a link. I got it to work 
by doing that. 


Liz Roberts in Missouri where the weather is confusing. Today was like spring 
in the morning and summer in the afternoon. A couple of days ago it was cool 
and windy.



-Original Message-
From: beth 
To: J-D Hammett 
Cc: Maureen ; lace 
Sent: Thu, Nov 2, 2017 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: [lace] Lace tells

So sorry my link didn't work, but the second one didn't either. Hope this one
will do the trick:
>
>
http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
glish-lace-schools

Virginia "Beth" Harpell
Historic Property Specialist
www.HistoricHouseHunter.com

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Brenda Paternoster]

> In both of Beth’s messages the URL became split over two lines.  Maybe
reposting it from a different system will keep it intact.

http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
glish-lace-schools



Brenda in Allhallows

paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Veronika Irvine]

Correction: The following article is by David Hopkin and is in The Cowper and
Newton Journal.
2) Lacemakers and Old Songs, in Olney and Elsewhere
https://tinyurl.com/ybwtsz7a

(This article is available on ResearchGate which you can join for free.)

The journal is associated with the Cowper and Newton museum (in Olney, midway
between Northampton and Bedford) which also has a lace collection:
http://www.cowperandnewtonmuseum.org.uk/lace-making/
Veronika Irvine

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Veronika Irvine]

Thank you Beth for that very interesting link to the work by David Hopkin .

(Here it is again in short form: https://tinyurl.com/ycpxtoa3)

Looking into some of David's research, I came across some related work:

1) David Hopkin is also involved in another project on lace history:

By the poor, for the rich: Lace in Context

https://laceincontext.com/

2) Lacemakers and Old Songs, in Olney and Elsewhere, by Cowper and Newton

https://tinyurl.com/ybwtsz7a

(This article is available on ResearchGate which you can join for free.)

3) "Work the Old Lady out of the Ditch": Singing at Work by English
Lacemakers, by Gerald Porter

Journal of Folklore Research
Vol. 31, No. 1/3, Triple Issue: Ballad Redux (Jan. - Dec., 1994), pp. 35-55

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3814509

(This link requires a login.  If you attended any university or college (even
if you did not graduate), I recommend you ask your alma mater about free
access to online resources for alumni.  You probably are eligible to access
these resources.)

Kind regards,
Veronika Irvine

... in Waterloo, which is living up to its name today

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[b...@historichousehunter.com]

So sorry my link didn't work, but the second one didn't either. Hope this one
will do the trick:
>
>
http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
glish-lace-schools

Virginia "Beth" Harpell
Historic Property Specialist
www.HistoricHouseHunter.com
973-650-1637 Cell
973-770- Office
RE/MAX House Values
101 Landing Road
Roxbury, NJ 07850
RE/MAX 100% Club
& NJAR Circle of Excellence


> On Nov 2, 2017, at 11:42 AM, J-D Hammett  wrote:
>
> Hi Arachnids,
>
> As the link that Beth Harpell so kindly provided does not quite work, here
is
> the one I found;-
>
http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
> glish-lace-schools
> Hope it helps
>
> Happy lace making,
>
> Joepie in cold but sunny Sussex, UK.
>
>
> From: b...@historichousehunter.com<mailto:b...@historichousehunter.com>
> Sent: 01 November 2017 14:06
> To: Maureen<mailto:maur...@roger.karoo.co.uk>
> Cc: lace@arachne.com<mailto:lace@arachne.com>
> Subject: Re: [lace] Lace tells
>
> Maureen,
>
> I thought this was a fascinating site.  Here's the link
>
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftorch.ox.ac.
>
uk%2Fthemes%2Ftellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en&data=02%7C01%7
>
Cjdhammett%40msn.com%7C658151fa8e9d497c2dd408d52131c7ab%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb43
>
5%7C1%7C0%7C636451420039205224&sdata=MpkvZDtozLHL5mDDj8407Zdzq6Y5
> 2mOthropLj72Mp0%3D&reserved=0
> glish-lace-schools
>
> Beth Harpell in dreary New Jersey where it's only 36??
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[Maureen]

Hi

Thank you Joepie.  It was on Facebook and I eventually found on there.  

Regards 
Maureen
E York UK


> 
> 

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RE: [lace] Lace tells

[J-D Hammett]

Hi Arachnids,

As the link that Beth Harpell so kindly provided does not quite work, here is
the one I found;-
http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
glish-lace-schools
Hope it helps

Happy lace making,

Joepie in cold but sunny Sussex, UK.


From: b...@historichousehunter.com<mailto:b...@historichousehunter.com>
Sent: 01 November 2017 14:06
To: Maureen<mailto:maur...@roger.karoo.co.uk>
Cc: lace@arachne.com<mailto:lace@arachne.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Lace tells

Maureen,

I thought this was a fascinating site.  Here's the link
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftorch.ox.ac.
uk%2Fthemes%2Ftellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en&data=02%7C01%7
Cjdhammett%40msn.com%7C658151fa8e9d497c2dd408d52131c7ab%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb43
5%7C1%7C0%7C636451420039205224&sdata=MpkvZDtozLHL5mDDj8407Zdzq6Y5
2mOthropLj72Mp0%3D&reserved=0
glish-lace-schools

Beth Harpell in dreary New Jersey where it's only 36??

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Re: [lace] Lace tells

[b...@historichousehunter.com]

Maureen,

I thought this was a fascinating site.  Here's the link
http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-en
glish-lace-schools

Beth Harpell in dreary New Jersey where it's only 36°


> On Nov 1, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Maureen  wrote:
>
> Dear All
>
> I recently saw an email about lace tells and songs and that someone in
Oxford was doing some research but I now can't find it, either in the emails
or in the archives.  Can anyone remember who commented about it? if so could
you let me know please?
>
> Regards
> Maureen
> In grey Yorkshire UK
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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[lace] Lace tells

[Maureen]

Dear All

I recently saw an email about lace tells and songs and that someone in Oxford 
was doing some research but I now can't find it, either in the emails or in the 
archives.  Can anyone remember who commented about it? if so could you let me 
know please?

Regards 
Maureen
In grey Yorkshire UK

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[lace] Machine lace tells

[Leonard Bazar]

Dear Jeri

I hope I am proved wrong, but I doubt if anyone working in a
machine lace factory bothered singing to be heard - too much noise (of
machines, not workers).


leonard...@yahoo.com  currently attempting the first
flower in Mrs Dickson's Bibilla book - finding it rather tricky, and making
noises best not preserved for posterity!

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[lace] Lace Tells

[The Browns]

If I remember correctly, Lace and Bobbins by T.L.Huetson (1973)   also 
gave a list of these among the long lists of his bobbins.  There's one 
for sale on eBay at the moment.

Sheila in  a dull and cold Sawbo'
www.lace-helpandhistory.info

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