Re: [lace] thorns etc.--fishbones
One last (perhaps) comment on the use of fishbones. I worked as a paleo-ichthyologist for several years, during which I made skeletons of various types of fishes, and handled the skeletons of many more. From this experience I offer the following observations: 1) The internal bones such as ribs would almost certainly be too soft or fragile to be used as pins, as well as not really pointed enough if they were sturdier such as from a large fish. 2) I think there may be a translation issue in the statement about pins from the backbones of fish. The backbones themselves are round disks. What is perhaps being refered to are the neural arches coming off the top of the backbone or vertebrae, but I would expect those to be too triangular and not sharp enough. 3) What might very well have been used, and might be the translation for what is being called backbones, are the bony rays in the spiny top front fin (the dorsal fin) that runs along the back of spiny-rayed fishes, of which the perch is an excellent example. These bones are long, sharp, and sturdy. Some are straighter than others, and some are finer than others, but they are all much less fragile than the interior bones. As Alex has pointed out, this still doesn't address the question of whether fish bones were ever actually used as pins for lace, but I could easily imagine the spiny rays of perch being used along the edges of laces such as the Scandinavian laces that don't use pins in the interior of the lace. The only bones that could possibly have been used in any fashion, however, would be the bony spines from the fin along the top of a perch or similar fish. Nancy Connecticut, USA From: Vibeke Ervo vibeke.e...@gmail.com To: lace@arachne.com Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 9:30:24 AM Subject: [lace] thorns etc. On the Arizona site you can find the book by Sophie Davydoff: 'La dentelle russe, histoire, technique, statistique' (Karl W. Hiersemann, Leipzig, 1895). Look at plate A you will see thorns of wild pear used as pins in the Minsk area of Russia. In the OIDFA Bulletin 4/1999 p. 46 you can see a lacepillow from Dalecarlia in Sweden with 'pins' cut from wood. It is exceptional that such a primitive pillow has been preserved. Aino Linnove states that in Finland pins made of the backbones from fish or made of wood were used. In addition the dividing pins could be made of pig's teeth. Bodil Tornehave was more specific she stated that it is the backbones of perch that was used to make pins. Vibeke in Copenhagen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] thorns etc.--fishbones
Nancy; What about Sturgeon bones. Were they not plentiful in the European rivers? They habe a spiney back don't they? Lauren in Washinton state, where it is FINALLY sort of sunny! On 5/30/2011 1:43 PM, Nancy Neff wrote: One last (perhaps) comment on the use of fishbones. I worked as a paleo-ichthyologist for several years, during which I made skeletons of various types of fishes, and handled the skeletons of many more. From this experience I offer the following observations: 1) The internal bones such as ribs would almost certainly be too soft or fragile to be used as pins, as well as not really pointed enough if they were sturdier such as from a large fish. 2) I think there may be a translation issue in the statement about pins from the backbones of fish. The backbones themselves are round disks. What is perhaps being refered to are the neural arches coming off the top of the backbone or vertebrae, but I would expect those to be too triangular and not sharp enough. 3) What might very well have been used, and might be the translation for what is being called backbones, are the bony rays in the spiny top front fin (the dorsal fin) that runs along the back of spiny-rayed fishes, of which the perch is an excellent example. These bones are long, sharp, and sturdy. Some are straighter than others, and some are finer than others, but they are all much less fragile than the interior bones. As Alex has pointed out, this still doesn't address the question of whether fish bones were ever actually used as pins for lace, but I could easily imagine the spiny rays of perch being used along the edges of laces such as the Scandinavian laces that don't use pins in the interior of the lace. The only bones that could possibly have been used in any fashion, however, would be the bony spines from the fin along the top of a perch or similar fish. Nancy Connecticut, USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] thorns etc.
On the Arizona site you can find the book by Sophie Davydoff: 'La dentelle russe, histoire, technique, statistique' (Karl W. Hiersemann, Leipzig, 1895). Look at plate A you will see thorns of wild pear used as pins in the Minsk area of Russia. In the OIDFA Bulletin 4/1999 p. 46 you can see a lacepillow from Dalecarlia in Sweden with 'pins' cut from wood. It is exceptional that such a primitive pillow has been preserved. Aino Linnove states that in Finland pins made of the backbones from fish or made of wood were used. In addition the dividing pins could be made of pig's teeth. Bodil Tornehave was more specific she stated that it is the backbones of perch that was used to make pins. Vibeke in Copenhagen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
