Re: [lace] Black thread vs. white thread
When I wrote about the effect of dyes on thread fibers, I expected to start a discussion, and have been successful. I know you both (and many others) have much experience, with threads and dyes. Hi Everybody: I haven't noticed this in embroidery cottons, but I can speak about wool. I have used Appleton's crewel wool a lot in embroidery, and the sea-greens especially are substantially thinner than most other colours. At the time I noticed this, I talked to others at my embroidery guild, and also to a couple of professional dyers I know, and the consensus was: Mordants are the chemicals that are used to make the dye bond to the fibre. The word 'mordant' comes from the French word for 'bite' and it gives you an idea of what the mordants do - they change the surface of the fibre, and they very often weaken it slightly. Different colours use different mordants, and some colours are achieved by dying the fibre and then overdying it with another colour. Depending on the colour you want to get, by the time you're finished dyeing the poor little bit of fibre might be coloured more than once, and have been bitten by several different chemicals as well. The fibre goes through a lot, and it wears down as it goes through the process. If you dye the fibre after it is spun (which makers of embroidery fibres do) your length of fibre is therefore thinner when it comes out of the dyebath than it was when it went in. Dyeing other colours might just be a quick one-step process, and so skeins of fibre in those colours will by comparison be thicker. Of course, if the fibre is spun *after* it is dyed, there won't be a difference because the wear happens before spinning. I wouldn't be at surprised if cotton suffers from the same problem. I do know from experience that some cottons go through several dyebaths to get the exact colour - I once used a small amount of bleach on a kitchen towel, and while some colours stayed the same, the grey colour in the towel turned to flesh pink! My professional dyer friends said that the grey had been achieved by overdying the pink, so my bleach had stripped off the top layer of dye and revealed the pink. Hope this helps. Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Black thread vs. white thread
Dear thread users, When I wrote about the effect of dyes on thread fibers, I expected to start a discussion, and have been successful. I know you both (and many others) have much experience, with threads and dyes. When I joined the Embroiderers' Guild of America in 1968, some of the first classes I took at their headquarters, then in New York City, were with teachers of various ethnic embroideries. These were teachers experienced in Greek, Swiss, German, Danish embroidery on linen. They actually showed examples that proved to me that it is important to pay attention to how much coverage different DMC colors gave, and if the result was weak, to add a strand. This also proved to be important with wool, when I went on to learn about canvas work from expert teachers. Unfortunately, I did not think to ask about this when on a private tour of the DMC factory in France, near the Switzerland border, about 30 years ago. I do remember seeing the dyeing operation - in fact, every phase of thread production. And since I think the quality standards have slipped a bit in recent years due to pressures from the huge discounters, I think it is very important to keep reminding lacemakers to closely examine threads at point of purchase. In fact, thread quality was discussed in my review of Barbara Ballantyne's book The Structure of Threads for Lace, in March. Alison, I hope you will love your vintage Singer Featherweight machine. Mine is now 54 years old, and still in good shape, after replacing the foot pedal once. Now, that is what quality used to be all about!! It is always my go-to machine, though I own another newer electric machine and two antique machines that are entirely powered by this human. Kind regards, Jeri Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center In a message dated 6/10/2011 5:58:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paternos...@appleshack.com writes: I have to agree with Alison. In a few threads (Empress Mills cottons and Swiss Maid come to mind) the white threads are measurably finer than the coloured equivalents. Whether that is because the dye adds to the bulk of the coloured threads or the bleach takes away from the white I'm not sure, but definitely it's the coloured threads which are thicker. Brenda On 10 Jun 2011, at 20:41, Alison and Gary Addicks wrote: The thread becomes progressively thinner depending on how much dye is absorbed by the fibers. Jeri, this just doesn't make sense to me. Procion dyes and vat dyes which are routinely used in dyeing cottons adhere to the fiber via chemical bonds, and while I know the mercerization process (caustic soda bath is one version) reduces the grist of the fiber, the difference produced by the dye process, though small, would increase the diameter of fiber, not reduce it. The dye process is additive, not subtractive. Where am I amiss in this? Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Black thread vs. white thread
Could it be just a trick of the eye? That the darker shades appear finer and so to get the same visual effect an additional thread is added, or is there a measurable physical difference? On 11 Jun 2011, at 05:36, jeria...@aol.com wrote: Dear thread users, When I wrote about the effect of dyes on thread fibers, I expected to start a discussion, and have been successful. I know you both (and many others) have much experience, with threads and dyes. When I joined the Embroiderers' Guild of America in 1968, some of the first classes I took at their headquarters, then in New York City, were with teachers of various ethnic embroideries. These were teachers experienced in Greek, Swiss, German, Danish embroidery on linen. They actually showed examples that proved to me that it is important to pay attention to how much coverage different DMC colors gave, and if the result was weak, to add a strand. This also proved to be important with wool, when I went on to learn about canvas work from expert teachers. Unfortunately, I did not think to ask about this when on a private tour of the DMC factory in France, near the Switzerland border, about 30 years ago. I do remember seeing the dyeing operation - in fact, every phase of thread production. And since I think the quality standards have slipped a bit in recent years due to pressures from the huge discounters, I think it is very important to keep reminding lacemakers to closely examine threads at point of purchase. In fact, thread quality was discussed in my review of Barbara Ballantyne's book The Structure of Threads for Lace, in March. Alison, I hope you will love your vintage Singer Featherweight machine. Mine is now 54 years old, and still in good shape, after replacing the foot pedal once. Now, that is what quality used to be all about!! It is always my go-to machine, though I own another newer electric machine and two antique machines that are entirely powered by this human. Kind regards, Jeri Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center In a message dated 6/10/2011 5:58:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paternos...@appleshack.com writes: I have to agree with Alison. In a few threads (Empress Mills cottons and Swiss Maid come to mind) the white threads are measurably finer than the coloured equivalents. Whether that is because the dye adds to the bulk of the coloured threads or the bleach takes away from the white I'm not sure, but definitely it's the coloured threads which are thicker. Brenda On 10 Jun 2011, at 20:41, Alison and Gary Addicks wrote: The thread becomes progressively thinner depending on how much dye is absorbed by the fibers. Jeri, this just doesn't make sense to me. Procion dyes and vat dyes which are routinely used in dyeing cottons adhere to the fiber via chemical bonds, and while I know the mercerization process (caustic soda bath is one version) reduces the grist of the fiber, the difference produced by the dye process, though small, would increase the diameter of fiber, not reduce it. The dye process is additive, not subtractive. Where am I amiss in this? Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
