RE: [lace] English point ground lace

2019-01-25 Thread Lorelei Halley
I was about to mention this book. But Diane beat me to it. It deals with
issues like how many passives in the foot. Relative size of the gimp. Very
nit picky little details. But in broad terms it is very difficult to
distinguish the place and nation of origin of any point ground lace.
Everybody made some version of it in the 19th c.
Lorelei


From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Diane
Williams
Subject: Re: [lace] English point ground lace

Susan,Have you ever read Point Ground Lace: A Comparative Study published by
OIDFA?B  Pink cover, mostly tables that compare the attributes of the
different point ground laces.


-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/


Re: [lace] English point ground lace

2019-01-24 Thread hottleco
Thank you Diane! Another member wrote privately recommending this book so I
will add it to my reading list. I am most eager to see what the OIDFA study
found. In France, the “terroir” is such an important factor. Folks in
villages 5km apart each think they produce the best wine, eau de vie, cheese,
whatever & can tell you, chapter & verse, why their’s is “le meilleur”!
Maybe these subtleties apply to vintage English lace as well? What a learning
experience this is turning into. Thx again. Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA

iPhone

> On Jan 24, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Diane Williams  wrote:
>
> Susan,
> Have you ever read Point Ground Lace: A Comparative Study published by
OIDFA?

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/


Re: [lace] English point ground lace

2019-01-23 Thread Susan
Thanks Adele! Since I don’t know much about point ground, your excellent 
analogy is very comforting. Funny that you should mention Tonder as I saw other 
features that were suspiciously similar to “gimp fingers”.  Sheesh! Time to 
move on & enjoy the patterns that speak to me. It will be a pleasure to not 
“close the pin”—Ha!  Sincerely, Susan Hottle, Florida USA 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Adele Shaak  wrote:
> 
> I always think it’s a little like cooking: 

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/


RE: [lace] English point ground lace

2019-01-23 Thread Devon Thein
Arguably, a bigger differentiator is what year you are talking about.
Sometimes motifs are big, sometimes motifs are small depending on the fashion.
They were all trying to create what was fashionable at that time rather than
something that looked distinctly like the lace of the town.
But, if Susan figures out some consistent features of certain laces, I would
be very interested to hear what they are. Sometimes if you look at something
enough you will see something you never saw before, like me with the drochel
strips in Point d’Angleterre.  I can’t believe I never noticed that
before.
Devon

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/


Re: [lace] English point ground lace

2019-01-23 Thread Adele Shaak
I always think it’s a little like cooking: Seven people make Irish Stew. This 
one cuts her carrots crosswise into buttons, that one quarters her carrots and 
cuts them into chunks. Everybody’s potatoes look a little different. This one 
leaves out one ingredient. That one likes to put in plenty of parsnips. They 
are all making Irish Stew.

Then people who don’t know much about cooking show up, and start labelling the 
stews. This one is from the lady on Broad Street. This man lives over by the 
park. That cook works in a restaurant. The restaurant down the street makes it 
a different way. And so Broad Street Stew, Park Stew, and Restaurant Stew are 
born - and there are two different kinds of Restaurant Stew, and people who 
learn about the two will argue forever about which one is the real, true stew. 

That’s the sort of thing that has happened in the lacemaking world. There are 
hundreds of years of vibrant history. Sometimes lacemakers moved long 
distances. The might be refugees or they might have been deliberately brought 
in to an impoverished area, to bring in a new way to make money. They teach the 
lace from the place they come from but it changes slowly over the years, and by 
the time the collectors and labellers show up it is noticeably different and 
gets its own label. Or, sometimes two laces are basically the same, but then 
people will pick and poke at them because they’re sure there must be 
differences because they come from two different places. 

That is why museum workers tear their hair out trying to figure out how to 
label laces (I’m sure Devon will chime in about her travails). We can broadly 
separate laces by the techniques used - point ground laces, for example. The 
laces you mention fall into that category, along with many Continental laces 
like Tonder, Bayeux, Chantilly … Then there are tape laces, part laces like 
Honiton and Duchesse … 

Then there are some funny hiccups, like how Honiton lace was not made in 
Honiton and I’ve been told a lot of Valenciennes was made at Binche and vice 
versa. In the interests of clarity I think our geographic way of naming laces 
should be superseded by some other method. But I’m not in charge of these 
things ;-)

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)


> On Jan 23, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Susan  wrote:
> 
> What differentiates one from another?! To prepare for some lace study visits, 
> I am making samples of Bucks, Devon Trolly, Downton & Malmesbury plus a few 
> items from the Luton Museum lace dealer’s pattern book. As I was leafing thru 
> several books, I stopped dead in my tracks. Some patterns looked very similar 
> to Little pea, plum pudding & maids in a row—except I wasn’t looking at a 
> book on Bucks!  Say what!?! It made me wonder, if these lace samples were all 
> spread out on a table, how would they be identified? Thread—they all seem to 
> be cotton (so far). Thread weight—some seem a bit finer. Individual 
> motifs—there’s definitely a lot of crossover in shapes & fillings. Bucks 
> seems to feature more florals, otherwise the geometric components are highly 
> similar. Multiple grounds are mentioned but is this the defining feature of 
> each? Or is it the combination of shapes/motifs that separates Luton from 
> Bucks etc? What Am I missing in my first cursory observations? Sug!
 ge!
> stions are welcome. Many thanks. Sincerely, Susan Hottle, Florida USA
> 

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/