Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really?
Hi Arachnes All, That reminds me of one of my students - a relatively new one, who came to keep a friend company, but who was never as keen on bobbin lace-making as her friend. She had been agonising over leaves for some time and announced - to the class in general and me in particular - that she now knew why lacemaking had been invented. 'When the men were in prison years ago, they were made to sew mailbags. I think lace-making is what they made the women do!' Carol - in Suffolk UK - Original Message - From: "Regina Haring" To: Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [lace] No stupid question? Really? "If I die and go to h*ll, that's what they're going to make me do!" Regina New York - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
In a message dated 3/3/2009 10:34:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com writes: 'When the men were in prison years ago, they were made to sew mailbags.I think lace-making is what they made the women do!' I think this comment may be more insightful than stupid. Actually, lacemaking was a staple in many "poor houses" in Europe. I know it was practiced in institutions, because in Rockland County, New York, where I grew up, and where I demonstrated lace in the 1970's, people would often remark that this was being done at Letchworth Village, an institution for mentally challenged individuals in the area. I also ran across a newspaper article from the 19th century, announcing the death of woman in prison for murder (in America) who had spent her time in prison making bobbin lace. I also think that I may have heard that Ingaborg Rasmussen went into prisons and mental institutions in Denmark teaching lacemaking. Unfortunately, I can't find a citation for this. I have to think that if there was a prisoner in America making bobbin lace, there must have been many more in Europe. Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. I have made a lot of lace while watching the financial channel and seeing the implosion of the economy. It has been weeks of exceptional productivity for me. In fact, my back is beginning to suffer. On occasion, I have wondered if the IOLI shouldn't offer to go into prisons to teach the craft. There is a lot of knitting and crocheting in women's prison, and the prisoners knit and crochet for themselves, other prisoners, who trade for the items, and also sell at a flea market, as well as some prison store. On the other hand, there are a lot of restrictions on what they can have, ie. only plastic knitting needles, so our gear might not pass muster. And, in addition, although the providing of such an interesting, satisfying and time consuming hobby to prisoners might be a good deed, it might materially change the nature of our organization if large numbers of felons joined our ranks. So, I have sort of tabled this idea for membership enhancement. Devon **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
Hi Devon et al, I didn't mean to imply that the question was stupid!I thought we had 'moved on' slightly, and were also discussing the humour of some of the comments made whilst teaching and demonstrating!I do know that in several of the mental homes in my area, we go in to teach lace as a sort of therapy, so I suppose it could have been done in the past as well - but I also think that what my student was implying was the lacemaking as a form of punishment, not quite what we would wish it to be thought, I am sure. Carol - Suffolk UK - Original Message - From: dmt11h...@aol.com To: nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com ; lace@arachne.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking In a message dated 3/3/2009 10:34:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com writes: 'When the men were in prison years ago, they were made to sew mailbags. I think lace-making is what they made the women do!' I think this comment may be more insightful than stupid. Actually, lacemaking was a staple in many "poor houses" in Europe. I know it was practiced in institutions, because in Rockland County, New York, where I grew up, and where I demonstrated lace in the 1970's, people would often remark that this was being done at Letchworth Village, an institution for mentally challenged individuals in the area. I also ran across a newspaper article from the 19th century, announcing the death of woman in prison for murder (in America) who had spent her time in prison making bobbin lace. I also think that I may have heard that Ingaborg Rasmussen went into prisons and mental institutions in Denmark teaching lacemaking. Unfortunately, I can't find a citation for this. I have to think that if there was a prisoner in America making bobbin lace, there must have been many more in Europe. Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. I have made a lot of lace while watching the financial channel and seeing the implosion of the economy. It has been weeks of exceptional productivity for me. In fact, my back is beginning to suffer. On occasion, I have wondered if the IOLI shouldn't offer to go into prisons to teach the craft. There is a lot of knitting and crocheting in women's prison, and the prisoners knit and crochet for themselves, other prisoners, who trade for the items, and also sell at a flea market, as well as some prison store. On the other hand, there are a lot of restrictions on what they can have, ie. only plastic knitting needles, so our gear might not pass muster. And, in addition, although the providing of such an interesting, satisfying and time consuming hobby to prisoners might be a good deed, it might materially change the nature of our organization if large numbers of felons joined our ranks. So, I have sort of tabled this idea for membership enhancement. Devon - - A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
Yes, I realize it was a humorous comment, like the one reported by Regina, and not the result of deep study.:-) But it is actually more humorous for being unintentionally true. Some of the discussions about compelling the residents of poor houses to make lace is aimed at keeping them, to some extent off the public dole and encouraging a work ethic. There are various suggestions that those who would not comply with showing up for lacemaking should be considered among the slothful, undeserving poor, and denied public assistance. So there were probably quite a few people making lace against their will, lest they be allowed to starve by those institutions meant to save people from starving. I have not yet had the chance to find out if there is much lacemaking going on in hell. For us, of course, it would seem that going to heaven would certainly involve lacemaking without interruption, sort of like an eternal lace retreat. :-) I will add a question I was once asked at a demo. I had an entire pillow of exquisite bone bobbins, incised, mother and babe, etc., products of Archer and Springett. Truly a masterpiece of a pillow meant to attract the eye of bling seekers. A visitor asked me what had been used for bobbins before we had plastic. Devon In a message dated 3/3/2009 11:45:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com writes: Hi Devon et al, I didn't mean to imply that the question was stupid! I thought we had 'moved on' slightly, and were also discussing the humour of some of the comments made whilst teaching and demonstrating!I do know that in several of the mental homes in my area, we go in to teach lace as a sort of therapy, so I suppose it could have been done in the past as well - but I also think that what my student was implying was the lacemaking as a form of punishment, not quite what we would wish it to be thought, I am sure. Carol - Suffolk UK - Original Message - From: dmt11h...@aol.com To: nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com ; lace@arachne.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking In a message dated 3/3/2009 10:34:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nestalace.ca...@btopenworld.com writes: 'When the men were in prison years ago, they were made to sew mailbags. I think lace-making is what they made the women do!' I think this comment may be more insightful than stupid. Actually, lacemaking was a staple in many "poor houses" in Europe. I know it was practiced in institutions, because in Rockland County, New York, where I grew up, and where I demonstrated lace in the 1970's, people would often remark that this was being done at Letchworth Village, an institution for mentally challenged individuals in the area. I also ran across a newspaper article from the 19th century, announcing the death of woman in prison for murder (in America) who had spent her time in prison making bobbin lace. I also think that I may have heard that Ingaborg Rasmussen went into prisons and mental institutions in Denmark teaching lacemaking. Unfortunately, I can't find a citation for this. I have to think that if there was a prisoner in America making bobbin lace, there must have been many more in Europe. Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. I have made a lot of lace while watching the financial channel and seeing the implosion of the economy. It has been weeks of exceptional productivity for me. In fact, my back is beginning to suffer. On occasion, I have wondered if the IOLI shouldn't offer to go into prisons to teach the craft. There is a lot of knitting and crocheting in women's prison, and the prisoners knit and crochet for themselves, other prisoners, who trade for the items, and also sell at a flea market, as well as some prison store. On the other hand, there are a lot of restrictions on what they can have, ie. only plastic knitting needles, so our gear might not pass muster. And, in addition, although the providing of such an interesting, satisfying and time consuming hobby to prisoners might be a good deed, it might materially change the nature of our organization if large numbers of felons joined our ranks. So, I have sort of tabled this idea for membership enhancement. Devon - - A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) - To unsubsc
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
Yet I think only if the person is responsive to such, as therapy. For someone dis-inclined (to aquiesce), it would indeed be a chore. On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:17 AM, wrote: > > Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. > -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
Whatever you say, Miss Swan bev walker wrote: Yet I think only if the person is responsive to such, as therapy. For someone dis-inclined (to aquiesce), it would indeed be a chore. On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:17 AM, wrote: Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. -- Ruth R. in Ohio roxw...@krafters.net - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and lacemaking
Swann! and my dress has lace ;) On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Ruth Rocker wrote: > Whatever you say, Miss Swan > > bev walker wrote: > >> Yet I think only if the person is responsive to such, as therapy. For >> someone dis-inclined (to aquiesce), it would indeed be a chore. >> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:17 AM, wrote: >> >> >> >>> Lacemaking, is, after all, very therapeutic. >>> >>> >>> >> > -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and Lacemaking]
Susan Reishus wrote: This discussion brings several things to mind. There is much prison focus for teaching knitting and crochet in the US, but some disallow knitting because of the knitting needles/pins and only allow crochet. One would think of bobbins as relatively harmless by comparison. Ah, but it's the pins that would be the problem. I have a friend who works in a women's prison and she says that anything that could be the agent of self-harm is not allowed. Which is a shame; lacemaking, as someone has just said, is very theraputic. Lesley - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
RE: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and Lacemaking]
There is a UK organisation called "Fine Cell Work": http://www.finecellwork.co.uk/ "Fine Cell Work is a Registered Charity that teaches needlework to prison inmates and sells their products." It seems there is no problem with needles, pins etc in this context. Margery. margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Hertfordshire, UK > -Original Message- > From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] > On Behalf Of Lesley Blackshaw > Sent: Tuesday 03 March 2009 19:32 > To: Arachne > Subject: Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and > Lacemaking] > > Susan Reishus wrote: > > This discussion brings several things to mind. There is > much prison focus for teaching knitting and crochet in the > US, but some disallow knitting because of the knitting > needles/pins and only allow crochet. > > > > One would think of bobbins as relatively harmless by > comparison. > > Ah, but it's the pins that would be the problem. I have a friend who > works in a women's prison and she says that anything that > could be the > agent of self-harm is not allowed. Which is a shame; lacemaking, as > someone has just said, is very theraputic. > > Lesley > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing > the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachnemodera...@yahoo.com > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] No stupid question? Really? Prisons and Lacemaking]
This work by prisoners has been a feature of articles in the Embroiderers' Guild UK's bulletin - "Embroidery". It seems quite sturdy, mostly canvaswork (called needlepoint in the U.S.A.). Famous designers actually bring designs to the prisons to be stitched for clients. There have been exhibits. The guys are very proud of their output. Jeri Ames Lace and Embroidery Resource Center In a message dated 3/3/2009 5:57:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, margerybu...@o2.co.uk writes: There is a UK organisation called "Fine Cell Work": http://www.finecellwork.co.uk/ "Fine Cell Work is a Registered Charity that teaches needlework to prison inmates and sells their products." It seems there is no problem with needles, pins etc in this context. Margery. **Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp0005) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
