Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
I agree with Ruth, and was wondering if you have asked Rosemary before making these accusations which I think would have been the preferred option Faye Owers Shearwater Tasmania Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ruth Budge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers I'm not able to comment on these opinions, as I'm not familiar with either book - but I do think it is most unfair to make accusations like this when Rosemary is out of the country and can't defend herself. Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) Karolina Jeffers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book. The flowers remind me of Jana Novak's book Fri Knipling particularly the Five petals and Hearflower - these are not even adaptations. Rosemary's other flowers closely resemble Jana Novak's flowers and I would say are adaptations... Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
In a message dated 19/05/2004 16:38:55 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What you are all saying is that it is OK to take someone's work and use it for one's own material gain? That isn't how I read the posts on this subject at all. What they do all seem to be saying is that it is possible for two people to independently come up with very similar ideas. If Rosemary made her first flowers in the late 70s then this predates the Novak ones by a considerable margin. But no-one would think that plagiarism has taken place the other way round, would they! My teaching notes are dated when I do them, ie when I need handouts for a class. This doesn't necessarily mean that the design or technique they refer to is brand new to me, just that it's the first time I want to run a a workshop on them and turn them into the public arena. Often the ideas and prototypes have been work in progress for a long time. The same could apply to Rosemary's notes dated late 80's. It is no evidence that she was influenced by Novak. As my copy of the book has not arrived yet, I am unable to compare the prickings with the ones designed by Jana Novak, and I am unclear from your comment I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book whether you have actually seen the book, or just the write up and pictures. What I really find fascinating is that no one has taken the time to compare the two books and make a constructive comment As it is a new book not many of us will have had the opportunity to make this comparison yet but even if I had been able to, probably the only comments I could make are on the lines of Yes, there are notable similarities or No, I think the similarities are minor. Either way, it would be fairly subjective and would throw no further light on the influences, conscious or subconscious, behind Rosemary's design ideas. I do not make any accusations, I simply state a fact. Unfortunately, to me at least, it did sound accusing. Unless you know for sure that Rosemary was aware of and influenced by Novak's work then what you are implying is not stating a fact. The only fact is that there are similarities, your post seemed to take it much further. Jacquie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
If Rosemary made her first flowers in the late 70s then this predates the Novak ones by a considerable margin. But no-one would think that plagiarism has taken place the other way round, would they! Frankly, that was my first reaction--that it could have just as easily been plagiarism in either direction. Personally, I don't believe either one of them plagiarized so I decided to keep my fingers quiet until now. I also agree (for whatever it's worth) that the first message sounded quite accusatory--first noting the similarity and then asking why it would be ok to copy someone's ideas and publish them as one's own. Putting those two thoughts into the same message makes it sound like an accusation of plagiarism. Judging from the pictures, the flowers are simple and straightforward. Anyone deciding to try to make flowers would likely come up with extremely similar designs. And many of us have at least thought about designing and making flowers, even if Rosemary and Jana are the only ones to follow through to the point of publishing books. The topics of adapting and plagiarism (and copyright) have come up on Arachne before, and the list members (at least those that express opinions) have *universally* agreed that plagiarism is abhorrent. However, accusation, even if just implied, without first gathering facts is also abhorrent. Reputations can be permanently tarnished by insinuations, even if facts later prove them innocent. So lets get off this ugly subject and back to lacemaking. Robin P. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
Hi, I have nothing to say on the similar flowers, since I haven't seen either book, but one of the emails made me wonder about something else: that we should respect the fact. I am quite sceptical at the suggestion that two people design the same piece, maybe in Torchon but not in Free lace. Is Torchon really always designed on a square grid? Or any grid? And why? If it was designed without a grid, would it be a free lace too? Weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
Hi Weronika, Torchon is a very grid based lace. Normally it is worked on a grid of 45 degrees, meaning that the dots are in a square tipped on a point, in other words an equal sided diamond. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . A usual component, fans, alter this by putting the pins on the edge in an arc rather than a point. There have been some very successful and interesting Torchon designs on a hexagonal grid (called toungue-in-cheek Distorchon and, unexpectedly, a logarithmic grid). The more you ignore the rules of Torchon construction, the further you go towards a lace that is something else. A matter of degree becoming a difference in kind. As for the matter of Free Laces, I have never been able to define them for myself in a satisfying way. Someone else will have to pick up that thread. Patty -Original Message- From: Weronika Patena [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:02 PM To: Karolina Jeffers Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers Hi, I have nothing to say on the similar flowers, since I haven't seen either book, but one of the emails made me wonder about something else: that we should respect the fact. I am quite sceptical at the suggestion that two people design the same piece, maybe in Torchon but not in Free lace. Is Torchon really always designed on a square grid? Or any grid? And why? If it was designed without a grid, would it be a free lace too? Weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
I'm not able to comment on these opinions, as I'm not familiar with either book - but I do think it is most unfair to make accusations like this when Rosemary is out of the country and can't defend herself. Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) Karolina Jeffers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book. The flowers remind me of Jana Novak's book Fri Knipling particularly the Five petals and Hearflower - these are not even adaptations. Rosemary's other flowers closely resemble Jana Novak's flowers and I would say are adaptations... Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
