Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus wrote:


Hi,

Στις 14/4/2020 4:15 μ.μ., ο Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus έγραψε:



On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:


Don't distribute binaries, only sources. The binary may not work on all
distributions, you'd need to provide one for all platforms (which 
you may

not have yourself). It may be outdated, no security fixed applied etc..

Michael.


Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An 
approach that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in OPK 
I didn't check the package there ... )


Not good, you need to provide this for all possible architectures, and 
that's not

possible for most people.


Yeap, I understand this. I'm still thinking my options .

< snip >


Distributing binaries is simply a big no-no. You must rely on the package
manager of your system for that.


You've got a point. After all, someone that uses a IDE and a compiler 
AND want to install some packages, I assume that is capable enough to 
use his system's package manager to solve any dependencies that may 
exist ...


Exactly my reasoning.

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus]

Hi,

Στις 14/4/2020 4:15 μ.μ., ο Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus έγραψε:



On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:


Don't distribute binaries, only sources. The binary may not work on all
distributions, you'd need to provide one for all platforms (which 
you may

not have yourself). It may be outdated, no security fixed applied etc..

Michael.


Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An 
approach that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in OPK 
I didn't check the package there ... )


Not good, you need to provide this for all possible architectures, and 
that's not

possible for most people.


Yeap, I understand this. I'm still thinking my options .

< snip >


Distributing binaries is simply a big no-no. You must rely on the package
manager of your system for that.


You've got a point. After all, someone that uses a IDE and a compiler 
AND want to install some packages, I assume that is capable enough to 
use his system's package manager to solve any dependencies that may 
exist ...


But I'm not sure that I understand completely regarding what is allowed 
for getting a package accepted in OPK.


Is it a suggestion / best practice not to distribute binaries on OPK or 
is it an prerequisite for acceptance ?


Could anyone plz clarify ?

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:


Don't distribute binaries, only sources. The binary may not work on all
distributions, you'd need to provide one for all platforms (which you may
not have yourself). It may be outdated, no security fixed applied etc..

Michael.


Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An approach 
that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in OPK I didn't check 
the package there ... )


Not good, you need to provide this for all possible architectures, and that's 
not
possible for most people.

And I would say this is a big flaw in the way mormot operates.

Distributing binaries is simply a big no-no. You must rely on the package
manager of your system for that.

Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus]

Hi,

Στις 14/4/2020 3:42 μ.μ., ο silvioprog via lazarus έγραψε:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus 
mailto:lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>> 
wrote:


Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An
approach that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in
OPK I
didn't check the package there ... )


IIRC mormot distributes its static libraries with its source code.


The mormot package in OPK distribute it's static libraries also ?  ( 
I'll have to look, but I'm sure that they do )


I asked because of the suggestion / rule to not distribute binary files 
via OPK.


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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An
> approach that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in OPK I
> didn't check the package there ... )
>

IIRC mormot distributes its static libraries with its source code.

In my case I'm writing a package that it'll use a specific version of
> libusb, and I was thinking to use static linking to solve this  .
>
> regads,
> --
> Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis=


There is a promising PM called "PMake" I think you would like to know:
https://github.com/daar/pmake . :-)

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis via lazarus]

Hi,

Στις 14/4/2020 6:23 π.μ., ο Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus έγραψε:



On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Sven Barth via lazarus wrote:

Balázs Székely via lazarus  schrieb am 
Mo.,

13. Apr. 2020, 20:08:


< snip >

shipped with the package(if possible). Adding a new entry in the 
package
tree it's not a problem, it can be done in 15-20 minutes, however 
the list

already has a "Christmas tree" feeling to it. Any extra info should be
added to the "package description"  or "community description" entries,
which can be opened in a separate form.



I don't agree. Especially on Linux (and the BSDs probably as well) 
that is
part of the OS' package manager, even for macOS there is an open 
source one

that one can install to handle such things. So a list of required
dependencies would be enough.

This list would also be useful for deployment of the final application
however so that one can either set up an installer / package 
correctly or

report to the user in a Readme or so what libraries are required.


+1.

Don't distribute binaries, only sources. The binary may not work on all
distributions, you'd need to provide one for all platforms (which you may
not have yourself). It may be outdated, no security fixed applied etc..

Michael.


Hmm, how about archive and/or object files for static linking ? An 
approach that I saw in mormot ( I don't know if it is the same in OPK I 
didn't check the package there ... )


In my case I'm writing a package that it'll use a specific version of 
libusb, and I was thinking to use static linking to solve this  .



regads,

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

>
> (should I send to getm...@gmail.com?)

Yes please. I will update OPM as soon as possible.

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:14 PM silvioprog via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:18 AM Balázs Székely via lazarus <
> lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>> @silvioprog
>> I added the "external dependencies" node  to OPM, so it can be used in
>> the future.
>>
>
> Wow, it is exactly I'm looking for! Thank you more one time! 😀
>
> I'm going to send the description and external dependencies I would like
> to add for the Brook package ... (should I send to getm...@gmail.com?)
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:18 AM Balázs Székely via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> @silvioprog
> I added the "external dependencies" node  to OPM, so it can be used in the
> future.
>

Wow, it is exactly I'm looking for! Thank you more one time! 😀

I'm going to send the description and external dependencies I would like to
add for the Brook package ... (should I send to getm...@gmail.com?)

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

@Silvio

> (is the lazarus-...@freepascal.org created? :-) )
>
No, not yet :). Hopefully in a few months, each package maintainer will be
able to update they own packages.
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:02 AM Balázs Székely via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> You're welcome. Just tell me what to change and I will change it.
> Unfortunately there is no automatic mechanism for now(see my reply in the
> other thread).
>

Thank you!

(is the lazarus-...@freepascal.org created? :-) )

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:23 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> +1.
>
> Don't distribute binaries, only sources.
>

Please notice I'm not suggesting to distribute binaries, but only some
field to indicate the package depends on external libraries/binaries, like
other package managers and distribution methods does
(appimage/.deb/.rpm/getit/npm/nuget/cmake and so on), i.e. make it easy to
the programmer known about required dependencies.

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

 @silvioprog
I added the "external dependencies" node  to OPM, so it can be used in the
future.



On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:03 AM Balázs Székely  wrote:

> @Sven, @silvioprog, @Michael
> OK. No binaries then. Obviously I'm a "windows minded" person, with little
> experience on other platforms.
> As a side node, OPM filters out binaries by default, however for a few
> well known packages, dlls were allowed, which turned out great and was
> appreciated by users. Hence my (wrong) suggestion.
>
> @silvioprog
>
>> Thanks for updating! However, I would like to do some changes in "Package
>> info / Community description" info soon. Where can I change this?
>>
> You're welcome. Just tell me what to change and I will change it.
> Unfortunately there is no automatic mechanism for now(see my reply in the
> other thread).
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

@Sven, @silvioprog, @Michael
OK. No binaries then. Obviously I'm a "windows minded" person, with little
experience on other platforms.
As a side node, OPM filters out binaries by default, however for a few well
known packages, dlls were allowed, which turned out great and was
appreciated by users. Hence my (wrong) suggestion.

@silvioprog

> Thanks for updating! However, I would like to do some changes in "Package
> info / Community description" info soon. Where can I change this?
>
You're welcome. Just tell me what to change and I will change it.
Unfortunately there is no automatic mechanism for now(see my reply in the
other thread).
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, Sven Barth via lazarus wrote:


Balázs Székely via lazarus  schrieb am Mo.,
13. Apr. 2020, 20:08:



I have a naive suggestion for OPM. Some components depends on external

libraries/binaries (libffi, openssl, libsagui etc.), so it would be nice
any field like "Libraries", or "Dependencies", or even "External files"
inside the "Package info", providing previous information that the package
needs external libraries/files to work properly. (sorry if it is already
implemented, I'm using Lazarus 2.0.6)


Thanks for the suggestion. In my opinion the external libraries should be
shipped with the package(if possible). Adding a new entry in the package
tree it's not a problem, it can be done in 15-20 minutes, however the list
already has a "Christmas tree" feeling to it. Any extra info should be
added to the "package description"  or "community description" entries,
which can be opened in a separate form.



I don't agree. Especially on Linux (and the BSDs probably as well) that is
part of the OS' package manager, even for macOS there is an open source one
that one can install to handle such things. So a list of required
dependencies would be enough.

This list would also be useful for deployment of the final application
however so that one can either set up an installer / package correctly or
report to the user in a Readme or so what libraries are required.


+1.

Don't distribute binaries, only sources. The binary may not work on all
distributions, you'd need to provide one for all platforms (which you may
not have yourself). It may be outdated, no security fixed applied etc..

Michael.-- 
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:08 PM Balázs Székely via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> @silvioprog
> I updated Brook framework, by default win32/win64 and gtk2 are the
> supported widget sets. If your package works on other platform too, like:
> qt5, gtk3, cocoa, please let me know so I can update in OPM.
>

Thanks for updating! However, I would like to do some changes in "Package
info / Community description" info soon. Where can I change this?

Regarding qt/gtk/cocoa, the component doesn't depend on any widget.

I have a naive suggestion for OPM. Some components depends on external
>> libraries/binaries (libffi, openssl, libsagui etc.), so it would be nice
>> any field like "Libraries", or "Dependencies", or even "External files"
>> inside the "Package info", providing previous information that the package
>> needs external libraries/files to work properly. (sorry if it is already
>> implemented, I'm using Lazarus 2.0.6)
>>
> Thanks for the suggestion. In my opinion the external libraries should be
> shipped with the package(if possible). Adding a new entry in the package
> tree it's not a problem, it can be done in 15-20 minutes, however the list
> already has a "Christmas tree" feeling to it. Any extra info should be
> added to the "package description"  or "community description" entries,
> which can be opened in a separate form.
>

It is not often possible to distribute libraries due to license issues, so
something clear alerting about required libraries would be great.

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Sven Barth via lazarus]

Balázs Székely via lazarus  schrieb am Mo.,
13. Apr. 2020, 20:08:

>
> I have a naive suggestion for OPM. Some components depends on external
>> libraries/binaries (libffi, openssl, libsagui etc.), so it would be nice
>> any field like "Libraries", or "Dependencies", or even "External files"
>> inside the "Package info", providing previous information that the package
>> needs external libraries/files to work properly. (sorry if it is already
>> implemented, I'm using Lazarus 2.0.6)
>>
> Thanks for the suggestion. In my opinion the external libraries should be
> shipped with the package(if possible). Adding a new entry in the package
> tree it's not a problem, it can be done in 15-20 minutes, however the list
> already has a "Christmas tree" feeling to it. Any extra info should be
> added to the "package description"  or "community description" entries,
> which can be opened in a separate form.
>

I don't agree. Especially on Linux (and the BSDs probably as well) that is
part of the OS' package manager, even for macOS there is an open source one
that one can install to handle such things. So a list of required
dependencies would be enough.

This list would also be useful for deployment of the final application
however so that one can either set up an installer / package correctly or
report to the user in a Readme or so what libraries are required.

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

@Michael

> Or is there a reason for having the 2 lists separate ?
>
Other then visually separate files from folders there is no reason.

One list of names/masks should suffice, don't you think ?
>
Yes I agree, it can be done with a single list. I add it to my "to do list"
:)


@silvioprog
I updated Brook framework, by default win32/win64 and gtk2 are the
supported widget sets. If your package works on other platform too, like:
qt5, gtk3, cocoa, please let me know so I can update in OPM.

I have a naive suggestion for OPM. Some components depends on external
> libraries/binaries (libffi, openssl, libsagui etc.), so it would be nice
> any field like "Libraries", or "Dependencies", or even "External files"
> inside the "Package info", providing previous information that the package
> needs external libraries/files to work properly. (sorry if it is already
> implemented, I'm using Lazarus 2.0.6)
>
Thanks for the suggestion. In my opinion the external libraries should be
shipped with the package(if possible). Adding a new entry in the package
tree it's not a problem, it can be done in 15-20 minutes, however the list
already has a "Christmas tree" feeling to it. Any extra info should be
added to the "package description"  or "community description" entries,
which can be opened in a separate form.
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:58 PM Balázs Székely via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> @silvioprog
> I will update Brook framework soon.
>

Thank you very much for maintaining OPM! And feel absolutely free to ask
any question about the package if you need. 👍

I have a naive suggestion for OPM. Some components depends on external
libraries/binaries (libffi, openssl, libsagui etc.), so it would be nice
any field like "Libraries", or "Dependencies", or even "External files"
inside the "Package info", providing previous information that the package
needs external libraries/files to work properly. (sorry if it is already
implemented, I'm using Lazarus 2.0.6)

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 11:56 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> As you are the author, I think it is your responsability to update the
> package entry, no ?


hm... I never published a package at OPM repository before, so I don't know
how to do that (yet). 😅

In next message Balázs wrote he will update it soon, so I would appreciate
to help him on that.

I have a naive suggestion for OPM. I'm going to talk about that a little in
next message ...

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020, Balázs Székely via lazarus wrote:


@Michael

I implemented the 'open package entry' feature in  r.62959. If a package is
available locally, you can open it by clicking the Open button or double
click the selected package(screenshot1). More over if a package
compile/install fails, OPM will offer you to open the package(screenshot2).


Nice :-) Great job !

While we're at it: meanwhile I enabled the 'Package maintainer' profile.
I get then the option to specify files/directories that should be excluded
from zip files.

I see no need to make this 2 lists ? 
.gitignore and friends also don't need 2 separate lists.


One list of names/masks should suffice, don't you think ? 
Or is there a reason for having the 2 lists separate ?

(maybe I fail to see something)

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

@Michael

I implemented the 'open package entry' feature in  r.62959. If a package is
available locally, you can open it by clicking the Open button or double
click the selected package(screenshot1). More over if a package
compile/install fails, OPM will offer you to open the package(screenshot2).

@silvioprog
I will update Brook framework soon.
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020, silvioprog via lazarus wrote:


Hi all.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:50 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:


Hi,

I tried to install a package using the package manager (Brook framework).
The package manager tells me the compile failed.



I took a look at the version available in OPM and noticed it provides the
outdated version, available only for historical purposes.


As you are the author, I think it is your responsability to update the
package entry, no ?

Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[silvioprog via lazarus]

Hi all.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:50 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I tried to install a package using the package manager (Brook framework).
> The package manager tells me the compile failed.
>

I took a look at the version available in OPM and noticed it provides the
outdated version, available only for historical purposes.

New applications have to use Brook Tardigrade, available at
risoflora/brookframework  (with
a branch for minor changes: risoflora/brookframework/tree/v5.1
). The OPM is
supposed to provide it, named as "Brook Framework".

The old version is available at risoflora/brookfreepascal
, however, it is not
maintained so often.

cheers

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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020, Balázs Székely via lazarus wrote:


Hi Michael,

I tried to install a package using the package manager (Brook framework).

The package manager tells me the compile failed.
How can I see what the actual error is ?


The Message Window is not obscured by OPM, usually I check the error
messages there.


Duh !  I should have checked that... 
The message window was obscured in my case. 
Damn this docked IDE, I can't get used to it ;-)




Ideally you shouldn't see any error messages :), however there are too many
Lazarus/FPC version/widgetsets. I cannot check each package on every single
platform. This should be the package maintainers job.
In Lazarus trunk there is a small improvement though, if a package is not
tested against a specific widgetset/Laz/FPC version, OPM will warn you,
that the package compile might fail.


OK, seems like a good idea.

BTW, the message was not meant to point out that there is a broken package.
I understand perfectly you cannot check every possible package out there.
I simply didn't see the messages window.

for completeness sake, here is the actual error:

brookfclfcgibroker.pas(23,12) Fatal: Cannot find CustFCGI used by 
BrookFCLFCGIBroker of package BrookRT.




Or must I open the package manually, compile manually to see the error ?

If so, why isn't there a 'open this package' entry in the list of packages
?


This is a good idea, I can add an "open this package" entry.


Yes, please. That would be really handy ! See below.



have no easy way of locating the package.

In the options, I found where the OLPM downloads the packages,
but to get there on a mac involves an insane amount of clicking,
provided I managed to remember the location where the package is supposed
to
be...


Please click the "Local Repo" button(see attachment) , it will open a file
manager window with the folder where the packages are installed.


Yes, I did that before mailing.

But when I open a package in this dialog, it shows me an empty file list :(

So, in order to open the package, I must then
* remember the location
* close this dialog and go to the 'open package file' dialog in the package 
menu.
* Browse to home directory.
* Enable showing hidden files with Cmd-Shift-Period to be able to select the 
.lazarus
directory (this is Mac!)
* Continue to correct directory
* Open package file.
And then I see the correct file list in the package...

Now you will understand why I think the 'open this package' entry is a good 
idea ;-)

Thanks for looking at this :-)

Michael.-- 
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Re: [Lazarus] Online Package Manager errors ?

[Balázs Székely via lazarus]

Hi Michael,

I tried to install a package using the package manager (Brook framework).
> The package manager tells me the compile failed.
> How can I see what the actual error is ?
>
The Message Window is not obscured by OPM, usually I check the error
messages there.
Ideally you shouldn't see any error messages :), however there are too many
Lazarus/FPC version/widgetsets. I cannot check each package on every single
platform. This should be the package maintainers job.
In Lazarus trunk there is a small improvement though, if a package is not
tested against a specific widgetset/Laz/FPC version, OPM will warn you,
that the package compile might fail.


Or must I open the package manually, compile manually to see the error ?
> If so, why isn't there a 'open this package' entry in the list of packages
> ?
>
 This is a good idea, I can add an "open this package" entry.

have no easy way of locating the package.
> In the options, I found where the OLPM downloads the packages,
> but to get there on a mac involves an insane amount of clicking,
> provided I managed to remember the location where the package is supposed
> to
> be...
>
Please click the "Local Repo" button(see attachment) , it will open a file
manager window with the folder where the packages are installed.

regards,
Balázs.



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:50 PM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I tried to install a package using the package manager (Brook framework).
> The package manager tells me the compile failed.
>
> How can I see what the actual error is ?
>
> Or must I open the package manually, compile manually to see the error ?
>
> If so, why isn't there a 'open this package' entry in the list of packages
> ?
>
> I have no easy way of locating the package.
> In the options, I found where the OLPM downloads the packages,
> but to get there on a mac involves an insane amount of clicking,
> provided I managed to remember the location where the package is supposed
> to
> be...
>
> A browser's 'downloads' window allows you to open the file or open the file
> location. I think this could be a good addition to the OLPM.
>
>
> Michael.
>
>
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>
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