Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot in the West and one foot in the Middle East. Well, whatever you choose to be *the* international language you will always find drawbacks. But I would see it as a chance that now nearly everybody on earth learns a language that allows at least rudimentary communication. Of course, even english has multiple dialects. It is different in England, India, (south) afrika, US (and there again differences across the country), etc. But with the growing global communication there will be a minimum english that nearly everybody understands. What else could be *the* international language? English is quite easy to learn (at least the fundamentals). What could be an alternative? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Lazreport compilation problems with FPC trunk
Hi list, I reported problems compiling Lazreport with FPC trunk in bug 22527 I'm trying to look for the cause, but the output doesn't show much: Compiling lr_progr.pas ... C:\development\lazarus_fpctrunk\components\lazreport\source\lr_progr.pas(1,1) Fatal: Compilation aborted And a lot of "Warning: Implicit string type conversion from "AnsiString" to "WideString" in between. How can I dig deeper to try and find out what's causing this? I've looked at the compiler options for the package, Messages, but all messages seem to be enabled... Thanks, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot in the West and one foot in the Middle East. What could be an alternative? One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Note: I don't know any Esperanto and so can't tell how easy/hard it is to learn. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Sven Barth wrote: > On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: >> >> Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: >>> >>> I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the >>> whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely >>> different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot >>> in the West and one foot in the Middle East. >>> >> What could be an alternative? > > > One could try to use the language that was planned as an international > language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) > > Note: I don't know any Esperanto and so can't tell how easy/hard it is to > learn. You need about two weeks to learn and remember all rules of Esperanto (there are no exceptions in Esperanto regarding lexical rules, syntax, word ordering, grammar). The rest is practice and learning translation of words. Lots of words are created with prefixes and suffixes - you just take word base, and play with it by adding prefixes and suffixes. Interesting note: WWW in Esperanto is TTT :) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
On 12.08.2012 13:52, Aleksa Todorovic wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Sven Barth wrote: On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot in the West and one foot in the Middle East. What could be an alternative? One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Note: I don't know any Esperanto and so can't tell how easy/hard it is to learn. You need about two weeks to learn and remember all rules of Esperanto (there are no exceptions in Esperanto regarding lexical rules, syntax, word ordering, grammar). The rest is practice and learning translation of words. Lots of words are created with prefixes and suffixes - you just take word base, and play with it by adding prefixes and suffixes. Hmm... might be an interesting side project then. Though Klingon is also high up in the list of languages I want to learn ;) Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Am 2012-08-12 13:06, schrieb Sven Barth: On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: What could be an alternative? One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Then why has this not been chosen by all (most) countries in the world to teach in school? Why is english the preferred language? I doubt that this is a global conspiracy. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
On 12-8-2012 14:06, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > Am 2012-08-12 13:06, schrieb Sven Barth: >> On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: >> One could try to use the language that was planned as an international >> language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) >> > > Then why has this not been chosen by all (most) countries in the world > to teach in school? > Why is english the preferred language? > I doubt that this is a global conspiracy. Don't you guys think this is going a bit too much OT? Regards, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] TStringGrid Orientation
Am 2012-08-11 16:40, schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: I am struggling with a 90 degree text output in a TStringGrid cell. So far I have got it working with the following OnPrepareCanvas event procedure: ... but there is lots of (unnecessary) white space before and after the text as shown in http://image-upload.de/image/es9ThD/cf9fc08cfd.png Any ideas how to avoid this? It seems nobody has an idea how it can be done. I already fought quite a lot with grids before but got it reasonable working when doing fundamental things only. It seems that grids in Lazarus are very rudimentarily implemented. There are quite a lot of things missing to make them usable (i.e. AutoSizeRow()). Too bad. Do any alternatives exist? Or do I have to do it all from cratch myself? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Am 2012-08-12 14:29, schrieb Reinier Olislagers: On 12-8-2012 14:06, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2012-08-12 13:06, schrieb Sven Barth: On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Then why has this not been chosen by all (most) countries in the world to teach in school? Why is english the preferred language? I doubt that this is a global conspiracy. Don't you guys think this is going a bit too much OT? Yes, of course. Still interesting to discuss. ;-) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] TStringGrid Orientation
12.08.2012 16:43, Jürgen Hestermann пишет: Am 2012-08-11 16:40, schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: I am struggling with a 90 degree text output in a TStringGrid cell. So far I have got it working with the following OnPrepareCanvas event procedure: ... but there is lots of (unnecessary) white space before and after the text as shown in http://image-upload.de/image/es9ThD/cf9fc08cfd.png Any ideas how to avoid this? It seems nobody has an idea how it can be done. I already fought quite a lot with grids before but got it reasonable working when doing fundamental things only. It seems that grids in Lazarus are very rudimentarily implemented. There are quite a lot of things missing to make them usable (i.e. AutoSizeRow()). Too bad. Do any alternatives exist? Or do I have to do it all from cratch myself? Why from scratch? You can create a patch and/or bug report. ;) -- Best regards, Maxim Ganetsky mailto:gan...@narod.ru -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Splitter autosnap
I am not sure if this is a feature request or bug, but when I put a splitter between two panels, the right hand side does not snap to margin when the splitter approaches the edge. (The Lazarus documentation is crazy wrong BTW.). I found that if I make the left panel left aligned, or the right panel right aligned, you get the snap behavior, but it can't be done on both sides together because one panel has to be alclient aligned. It seems crazy that a splitter cant be moved across its range. I don't know what the Delphi behavior is but if Delphi doesn't then it should. Any ideas please? kal...@ihug.co.nz -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] TStringGrid Orientation
Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2012-08-11 16:40, schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: I am struggling with a 90 degree text output in a TStringGrid cell. So far I have got it working with the following OnPrepareCanvas event procedure: ... but there is lots of (unnecessary) white space before and after the text as shown in http://image-upload.de/image/es9ThD/cf9fc08cfd.png Any ideas how to avoid this? It seems nobody has an idea how it can be done. I already fought quite a lot with grids before but got it reasonable working when doing fundamental things only. It seems that grids in Lazarus are very rudimentarily implemented. There are quite a lot of things missing to make them usable (i.e. AutoSizeRow()). Too bad. Do any alternatives exist? Or do I have to do it all from cratch myself? It's not so much grids that are rudimentary as labels. Being able to have labels at 45deg so as to remain readable whilst not inflating narrow columns would be similarly useful. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
El dom, 12-08-2012 a las 13:06 +0200, Sven Barth escribió: > On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > > Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: > >> I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the > >> whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely > >> different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot > >> in the West and one foot in the Middle East. > >> English is one of the worst international languages (Irregular spelling, high polysemy, phrasal verbs, duplicated vocabulary from Latin and German (Get in, enter). For example Spanish or Farsi are easier to learn languages. But the a language is not the international languages because of its "linguistics virtues", but because of the country that supports it. Latin has been la international language for many years. Spanish was the international language (Some words used by Shakespeare are Spanish because it was the golden century of the Spanish Empire) until then Wold War II, French was the diplomacy language. In communist countries, Russian was the international languages. International language has nothing to do with the language, but with the country behind that language. > > What could be an alternative? > > One could try to use the language that was planned as an international > language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) > > Note: I don't know any Esperanto and so can't tell how easy/hard it is > to learn. For some years I was involved in Esperanto. It was a nice experience, and I still keep in touch, and some times I read esperanto and go to a meeting if it's very near from my home, just to see how it goes. But I stopped devoting time to esperanto a lot of time ago. * Esperanto has a lot suffixes and prefixes, a way of compounding roots to get new words so you have to learn a lot less roots. (most roots are Germanic and romanic, so if you speak one of these languages you need less effort) * When you see a written word there is only on way to read it, and when you hear a word there is only one way to write it. * The rules of grammar are perfectly regular. (by the way, many people thinks that esperanto is very similar to western languages, that's true for roots, but grammar is... different) * There is no "Yes, in theory is correct, but we never use that word/phrase/structure in such context" Compared to a natural language it is very easy. There are experiments that show that students that have learned esperanto for a year are as fluent in esperanto as students of French in three/four years. After studying seriously esperanto for a year, with the aid of a dictionary, you can read any book in esperanto. Can you do the same with Sweden or Swahili? Nevertheless don't believe the hype. A lot of people thinks that, after learning the "rules" and affixes in a week, can speak esperanto. Wrong you must learn a lot the vocabulary and become fluent it. Contrary to those who think esperanto is not a real language, unfortunately it is a language so you have to study it, learn the vocabulary, the syntax, the use of prefixes etc in such way that as soon as you want to say something you pick the right words and grammar immediately. It takes a lot of time of regular studying and using esperanto. Beside this, there is a lot of idealists that thinks that esperanto should be the international auxiliar language. They go to every meeting, support it, go to courses but they really don't speak the language. They are known as "eternal beginners". On the other hand there a lot of people that had learn esperanto by themselves but are not part of the Esperanto wave, don't take part in party-meettings, are not registered in any esperanto club or organization etc, but are very fluent reading and speaking esperanto. If you want to travel see the world not as a common tourist, esperanto is very good. If you want to reach literature that you seldom see in you language, give a chance to esperanto. If you want to talk with people from a other countries, esperanto is good. Most people out of airports, hotels etc almost can't speak English, so you hardly will be able to talk with them. If you have some intelectual curiosity for languages, Esperanto is an interesting experiment and there is a lot of stuff out there. But if you don't want to travel, you don't want to know other cultures. If you want to learn esperanto only if it is useful (as a replacement of English). Don't waste your time with esperanto. For example, I have no interest in British culture, or USA culture, or travel to UK or USA. English is a tool for me. Esperanto isn't a useful tool from a practical point of view and never will be. If you want to support the idea of a neutral international language. Forget it, esperanto will never be an auxiliar international language, as I said above the "de facto" international language is the ruling country's language. Period. Perhaps in the future Chines or Arabian. Santiago
Re: [Lazarus] debugger fails on freebsd x86_64
Am Sonntag, den 12.08.2012, 00:51 +0100 schrieb Martin: > On 11/08/2012 22:55, Marc Santhoff wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, den 09.08.2012, 17:35 -0500 schrieb Alonso Cárdenas > > Márquez: > >> Please, could you install devel/gdb from ports? It could work with > >> newest version of gdb (7.4.1) > >> > >> Don't forget change gdb path to /usr/local/bin/gdb on lazarus > >> Environment/Options > > That did the trick, I actually can run programs again, thanks. > > > > Purists may say it is at least some sort of irritating having to install > > another debugger - which never has been so since I use fpc and lazarus > > -, but I understand that this might be the version responsible > > developers used because it was just there on their systems. > > > > Will the systems GDB in FreeBSD 9.0 be supported later or is the minimal > > version of gdb a fact that shoulf be mentioned in some README or the > > wiki or so? > > > > I don't know what exactly is going wrong on the Freebsd gdb. And I > havent used FreeBSD in a long time... > > Where did he 6.1 debugger come from? Lazarus does not include GDB except > on windows (afaik). It's what comes with the system by default. Part of the OS. > I am surprised that Freebsd 9 should by default have such an old GDB. I'm used to it. It has been some versions back ever since. Or the other way round, FreeBSD is a bit conservative and Linux adopts any new (and maybe buggy) version very early. ;) > Also, there must be something different about that GDB, since on Windows > GDB 5.2 does work Running a program and triggering gdb on exception has worked for me all the time until now. All the time is since ... um, I think 2001 or so, with fpc 1.9.2. Real debugging - stepping through code, inspecting vars - has worked only sometimes and partly. So that's no surprise regarding FreeBSD. But since I avoid having to debug I primarily need to have a running program inside lazarus. I wonder if deleting the debugger from the options would have helped either, I'll test later. -- Marc Santhoff -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Splitter autosnap
Keith Allpress hat am 12. August 2012 um 15:26 geschrieben: > > I am not sure if this is a feature request or bug, but when I put a splitter > between two panels, the right hand side does not snap to margin when the > splitter approaches the edge. (The Lazarus documentation is crazy wrong BTW.). > Where is the documentation wrong? > > I found that if I make the left panel left aligned, or the right panel right > aligned, you get the snap behavior, but it can’t be done on both sides > together because one panel has to be alclient aligned. It seems crazy that a > splitter cant be moved across its range. I don’t know what the Delphi behavior > is but if Delphi doesn’t then it should. Any ideas please? > You can do all alLeft except the rightmost, which is alClient. This is the Delphi way. Or you can use Align alNone and use Anchors. This is much more flexible, but a few more clicks to setup. Delphi does not have this. See http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Working_with_TSplitter Here is an example what is possible with splitters and Align: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Anchor_Docking#Layouts_that_can_be_created_with_Align Here is an example what is possible with splitters and Anchors: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Anchor_Docking#Layouts_that_are_impossible_with_Align_and_Panels Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazreport compilation problems with FPC trunk
On 12-8-2012 12:57, Reinier Olislagers wrote: > Hi list, > > I reported problems compiling Lazreport with FPC trunk in bug 22527 > > I'm trying to look for the cause, but the output doesn't show much: > Compiling lr_progr.pas > ... > C:\development\lazarus_fpctrunk\components\lazreport\source\lr_progr.pas(1,1) > Fatal: Compilation aborted > > And a lot of "Warning: Implicit string type conversion from "AnsiString" > to "WideString" in between. > > How can I dig deeper to try and find out what's causing this? I've > looked at the compiler options for the package, Messages, but all > messages seem to be enabled... Figured out I overlooked the Compiler Options/Verbosity settings for some reason. Setting verbosity to -va and keeping the package options "generate debug info" (-g) and line numbers (-gl) gives: ... a lot of output... lr_class.pas(11454,3) Note: Local variable "wValue" not used lr_class.pas(21,52) Hint: Unit "LMessages" not used in LR_Class Searching file lr_dbset.pas... found Searching file lr_utils.pas... found Searching file lr_dbrel.pas... found Searching file lr_view.pas... found Searching file lr_barc.pas... found Fatal: Compilation aborted An unhandled exception occurred at $00403FF9: EStackOverflow: Stack overflow $00403FF9 line 410 of ../inc/sstrings.inc $005858F2 line 372 of dbgstabs.pas $0058852D line 1077 of dbgstabs.pas $00442D7B line 595 of dbgbase.pas $005307EA line 1095 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052F521 line 545 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052FF09 line 862 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052F521 line 545 of pmodules.pas Error: C:\development\fpctrunk\bin\i386-win32\ppc386.exe returned an error exitcode Hmmm? dbgstabs.pas suggests something to do with generating debug info perhaps? -va and no -g -gl does let Lazarus compile the package. Perhaps the problem lies with the compiler instead of Lazreport? Thanks, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazreport compilation problems with FPC trunk
12.08.2012 20:12, Reinier Olislagers пишет: On 12-8-2012 12:57, Reinier Olislagers wrote: Hi list, I reported problems compiling Lazreport with FPC trunk in bug 22527 I'm trying to look for the cause, but the output doesn't show much: Compiling lr_progr.pas ... C:\development\lazarus_fpctrunk\components\lazreport\source\lr_progr.pas(1,1) Fatal: Compilation aborted And a lot of "Warning: Implicit string type conversion from "AnsiString" to "WideString" in between. How can I dig deeper to try and find out what's causing this? I've looked at the compiler options for the package, Messages, but all messages seem to be enabled... Figured out I overlooked the Compiler Options/Verbosity settings for some reason. Setting verbosity to -va and keeping the package options "generate debug info" (-g) and line numbers (-gl) gives: ... a lot of output... lr_class.pas(11454,3) Note: Local variable "wValue" not used lr_class.pas(21,52) Hint: Unit "LMessages" not used in LR_Class Searching file lr_dbset.pas... found Searching file lr_utils.pas... found Searching file lr_dbrel.pas... found Searching file lr_view.pas... found Searching file lr_barc.pas... found Fatal: Compilation aborted An unhandled exception occurred at $00403FF9: EStackOverflow: Stack overflow $00403FF9 line 410 of ../inc/sstrings.inc $005858F2 line 372 of dbgstabs.pas $0058852D line 1077 of dbgstabs.pas $00442D7B line 595 of dbgbase.pas $005307EA line 1095 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052F521 line 545 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052FF09 line 862 of pmodules.pas $004335DA line 395 of parser.pas $00528318 line 1671 of fppu.pas $0052F35B line 483 of pmodules.pas $0052F521 line 545 of pmodules.pas Error: C:\development\fpctrunk\bin\i386-win32\ppc386.exe returned an error exitcode Hmmm? dbgstabs.pas suggests something to do with generating debug info perhaps? -va and no -g -gl does let Lazarus compile the package. Perhaps the problem lies with the compiler instead of Lazreport? Yes it is, compiler shouldn't crash. -- Best regards, Maxim Ganetsky mailto:gan...@narod.ru -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazreport compilation problems with FPC trunk
On 12-8-2012 18:50, Maxim Ganetsky wrote: > 12.08.2012 20:12, Reinier Olislagers пишет: >> On 12-8-2012 12:57, Reinier Olislagers wrote: >>> I reported problems compiling Lazreport with FPC trunk in bug 22527 >> Hmmm? dbgstabs.pas suggests something to do with generating debug info >> perhaps? >> >> -va and no -g -gl does let Lazarus compile the package. >> >> Perhaps the problem lies with the compiler instead of Lazreport? > > Yes it is, compiler shouldn't crash. Thanks. Updated bug report... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Avishai schrieb: I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot in the West and one foot in the Middle East. Just scientific research requires an world-wide standard. In the beginning it might have been Persian or Egyptian, followed by Greek, Latin (life), Arabic, Latin (dead), and nowadays it's English. Perhaps it's my limited local view that all these languages are Mediterannean or European. Other languages (Maya, Chinese, Japanese, Russian) certainly also played a role in science, but there was not much exchange with the western world, due to distances or politics. Esperanto, Interlingua or Volapük are interesting attempts to create simple synthetic languages, but I don't know much about their role, except that they have their place in Wikipedia. Indonesian is another such attempt, and that language is really spoken by many people nowadays, but again I couldn't find scientific contributions or wider distribution. Wikipedia contains other interesting languages, like Boarisch or Alemannisch, which I understand immediately. I'd like to add Schwäbisch, but that's very hard to write, and even harder to read ;-) DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Sven Barth schrieb: On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2012-08-12 03:28, schrieb Avishai: I couldn't agree with you more about English :) But it seems like the whole world wants to learn English (or American which is a completely different language). Very strange, but such is life. I have one foot in the West and one foot in the Middle East. What could be an alternative? One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Note: I don't know any Esperanto and so can't tell how easy/hard it is to learn. IMO both Esperanto and Volapük suffer from their mix of European languages. They may be easy to learn for people with knowledge of English, French and Spanish, but just these people could communicate immediately in *these* languages as well. A long time ago I read an interesting (French) book about automated translation, containing sample text passages with a mix of French, German and Russian words. Since the language of the words was easy to recognize, due to the different character sets, every speaker of such a language has stepping stones in these texts, which allow to figure out the meaning of the sentences. I see no alternative except learning at least two languages, what results in a feeling for the *different* approaches to using words (conjugation, declination, composition...) and forming sentences (grammar). I was confronted with 3 languages very early, i.e. Schwäbisch, Hochdeutsch and a bit of French, spoken by my parents and grand parents. Unfortunately English was missing from this mix, and I still don't like that language (prefer French), due to the different pronunciation (that damn 'th'). I only got it during a visit in Ireland, where 'th' frequently is pronounced as 'd'. When I gave the first home computers to my little brother, he complained about the English documentation, saying that he had not yet learned all these strange words at school - after learning English for a couple of years. I told him that he'll *never* learn these words at school and, oh wonder, on my next visit I found his annotations in the books, where he wrote down the translation of all the computing terms. Later on he agreed that it was easier to read the original (English) documentation, instead of (often funny) German translations. Learning a language cannot be done for you, by a teacher, instead everybody has to learn it himself. Good motivation is required herefore, and mastering an IDE certainly is such a motivation :-) DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT Re: Please remove Arabic language from the release version
Jürgen Hestermann schrieb: Am 2012-08-12 13:06, schrieb Sven Barth: On 12.08.2012 12:35, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: What could be an alternative? One could try to use the language that was planned as an international language: Esperanto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto ) Then why has this not been chosen by all (most) countries in the world to teach in school? Why is english the preferred language? I doubt that this is a global conspiracy. It is, I think. Why do Americans speak English, and Brazilians Portuguese? Every invader superseded local language and culture by it's own, in former times, and nowadays only the sequence is reversed. BTW, it may be time to move this thread to Lazarus-other. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Call for translations updates for 1.0 release and pending Portuguese translation removal
2012.08.03 01:08, Maxim Ganetsky rašė: Hello. Now that Lazarus 1.0 RC1 is out it is time to review and update translations for it. Please check out fixes branch (http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0 ), review and update your translations and attach updates (as full PO files, not patches) to our bugtracker. Mark your reports with Lazarus version clearly in order to avoid confusion. Is there differences (in i18n files) between "branches/fixes_1_0" and "trunk"? After "svn up" both says "Updated to revision 38228"... If so, is there automated way to transfer (replace in target) translated strings from one to another tree of files? I'm asking because I have translations updates for trunk. If no, can I send translations from trunk as translations for "branches/fixes_1_0"? Or they automatically "trunk" -> "branches/fixes_1_0" in server? -- Valdas Jankūnas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] debugger fails on freebsd x86_64
On 12/08/2012 16:11, Marc Santhoff wrote: Am Sonntag, den 12.08.2012, 00:51 +0100 schrieb Martin: I don't know what exactly is going wrong on the Freebsd gdb. And I havent used FreeBSD in a long time... Where did he 6.1 debugger come from? Lazarus does not include GDB except on windows (afaik). It's what comes with the system by default. Part of the OS. I am surprised that Freebsd 9 should by default have such an old GDB. I'm used to it. It has been some versions back ever since. Or the other way round, FreeBSD is a bit conservative and Linux adopts any new (and maybe buggy) version very early. ;) "A bit conservative" 6.1 is years behind. Current is 7.4 (and 7.5 is due) But that's not the point, there must be some other difference, maybe it's localized, maybe it has bsd specific patches. It does somehow behave different. Also, there must be something different about that GDB, since on Windows GDB 5.2 does work Running a program and triggering gdb on exception has worked for me all the time until now. All the time is since ... um, I think 2001 or so, with fpc 1.9.2. Real debugging - stepping through code, inspecting vars - has worked only sometimes and partly. So that's no surprise regarding FreeBSD. Well if you do not mind, you can still send me a full log | --debug-log=/home/yourname/laz.log --debug-enable=DBG_CMD_ECHO,DBG_STATE,DBG_DATA_MONITORS,DBGMI_QUEUE_DEBUG,DBGMI_TYPE_INFO,DBG_WARNINGS If it is trivial to fix ... | -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Call for translations updates for 1.0 release and pending Portuguese translation removal
12.08.2012 23:34, Valdas Jankūnas пишет: 2012.08.03 01:08, Maxim Ganetsky rašė: Hello. Now that Lazarus 1.0 RC1 is out it is time to review and update translations for it. Please check out fixes branch (http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0 ), review and update your translations and attach updates (as full PO files, not patches) to our bugtracker. Mark your reports with Lazarus version clearly in order to avoid confusion. Is there differences (in i18n files) between "branches/fixes_1_0" and "trunk"? After "svn up" both says "Updated to revision 38228"... Yes, there are. They are not that global, though. You can use diff tool to see them. If so, is there automated way to transfer (replace in target) translated strings from one to another tree of files? I'm asking because I have translations updates for trunk. Just replace your .po files, then recompile Lazarus clean (you should have installed in Lazarus all packages for which you update translations and which are not mentioned in localize.bat/localize.sh), then run localize.bat/localize.sh. Then make sure that all strings in your .po files are translated. ;) If no, can I send translations from trunk as translations for "branches/fixes_1_0"? See above. Yes you can, but you will have untranslated strings in your .po files as a result. > Or they automatically "trunk" -> "branches/fixes_1_0" in server? No. -- Best regards, Maxim Ganetsky mailto:gan...@narod.ru -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] language setup / http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22574
Please read: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22574 Then join the discussion here if you wish to add anything. (Thanks to Reinier Olislagers for proposing a patch, though it may be a bit early) - There are currently 2 approaches: 1) Installer 2) Lazarus setup dialog - 1) Installer - Contra: Only works on certain platform - Contra: Must be implemented for each platform (more work/maintenance) - Contra: can not differentiate between new install, and upgrade (upgrade must not interfere with existing settings) upgrade will have an existing config, but this may be at a none default location, if the user uses a --primary-config-path= - Pro: Every user will be prompted once. (Can be archived with "setup" too) The pro only applies, if it is not hard-coded. Reinier's patch does set it always to English. No choice. My opinion: Using the installer is an (undesirable) second choice ** A hard-coded always English is *not* acceptable. ** It should either be a checkbox: - English or Automatic (confusing since Auto can be English) - English or Installer language (limited because installer has limited options) Or it should be a dropdown, with all languages. Both, options have the issue of being displayed in case of an upgrade, in which case they should not. - 2) Lazarus setup dialog - Can use existing code - Works on all platforms - Can (if decided) be always shown, if there is no pre-existing config (new install) - Can have an icon/start-menu entry. This allows easy resetting of the language, if a user got it wrong. My opinion: The way to go. Also in my opinion: It is too late to push this for 1.0. There is a risk of adding bugs (including bugs in the installer) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] language setup / http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22574
13.08.2012 0:51, Martin пишет: Please read: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22574 Then join the discussion here if you wish to add anything. (Thanks to Reinier Olislagers for proposing a patch, though it may be a bit early) - There are currently 2 approaches: 1) Installer 2) Lazarus setup dialog - 1) Installer <...> 2) Lazarus setup dialog - Can use existing code - Works on all platforms - Can (if decided) be always shown, if there is no pre-existing config (new install) - Can have an icon/start-menu entry. This allows easy resetting of the language, if a user got it wrong. My opinion: The way to go. Fully agree with this. Also in my opinion: It is too late to push this for 1.0. There is a risk of adding bugs (including bugs in the installer) Yes, indeed. This should be trunk only. -- Best regards, Maxim Ganetsky mailto:gan...@narod.ru -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Call for translations updates for 1.0 release and pending Portuguese translation removal
2012.08.12 23:41, Maxim Ganetsky rašė: 12.08.2012 23:34, Valdas Jankūnas пишет: Is there differences (in i18n files) between "branches/fixes_1_0" and "trunk"? After "svn up" both says "Updated to revision 38228"... Yes, there are. They are not that global, though. You can use diff tool to see them. If so, is there automated way to transfer (replace in target) translated strings from one to another tree of files? I'm asking because I have translations updates for trunk. Just replace your .po files, then recompile Lazarus clean (you should have installed in Lazarus all packages for which you update translations and which are not mentioned in localize.bat/localize.sh), then run localize.bat/localize.sh. Then make sure that all strings in your .po files are translated. ;) If no, can I send translations from trunk as translations for "branches/fixes_1_0"? See above. Yes you can, but you will have untranslated strings in your .po files as a result. > Or they automatically "trunk" -> "branches/fixes_1_0" in server? No. Thanks for info. -- Valdas Jankūnas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
