Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Timothy Ha ha scritto: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org [..] I fully agree with other postings, it's a nonsense. But there's a fact I'd like to point to Lazarus community. Kylix 3 has been distributed also in a GPL'd version. Not the IDE, but nobody gives a damn: at least in non/windows environment, Borland's IDE is slow, unstable and buggy. However there's a full basic set of GPL components, which are at Delphi 7 level, as compared to Delphi 4 level of many Lazarus components. Why not take advantage of them, and provide an almost 100% source compatibility with Delphi, now that Delphi is dead? GPL components have been developed with multi-platform in mind, with platform/interface specificities isolated well enough to make the porting to Lazarus interface independent structure an affordable task. I've already started trying to compare Lazarus and Delphi GPL components. If there's some interest, I'd feel encouraged to go on, and to share with others what I'm doing. Giuliano Colla _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Giuliano Colla wrote: Timothy Ha ha scritto: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org [..] I fully agree with other postings, it's a nonsense. But there's a fact I'd like to point to Lazarus community. Kylix 3 has been distributed also in a GPL'd version. Not the IDE, but nobody gives a damn: at least in non/windows environment, Borland's IDE is slow, unstable and buggy. However there's a full basic set of GPL components, which are at Delphi 7 level, as compared to Delphi 4 level of many Lazarus components. Why not take advantage of them, and provide an almost 100% source compatibility with Delphi, now that Delphi is dead? GPL components have been developed with multi-platform in mind, with platform/interface specificities isolated well enough to make the porting to Lazarus interface independent structure an affordable task. I've already started trying to compare Lazarus and Delphi GPL components. If there's some interest, I'd feel encouraged to go on, and to share with others what I'm doing. The crossfpc project has focused on getting the FreeCLX to work with FPC. GUI programs and even DB related stuff compiled with FPC from within the Delphi IDE ! The license is an issue, though; the CLX CAN NOT be used to quoteCreate a competing product/quote. So that limits it's use in Lazarus. The crossfpc project manager (Simon Kissel) should be able to tell more about this. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Michael Van Canneyt ha scritto: [...] The license is an issue, though; the CLX CAN NOT be used to quoteCreate a competing product/quote. So that limits it's use in Lazarus. [...] I've carefully read the licence coming with my copy of Kylix 3 Open and there's no trace of the quoted sentence. On the contrary, all the sources of the clx - rtl - rtle carry a standard GPL license. I enclose both license.txt and the shortest source file I found. Maybe the matter is worth further investigation. BORLAND SOFTWARE CORPORATION LICENSE TERMS KYLIX 3 OPEN NOTICE: THIS BORLAND SOFTWARE PRODUCT (TOGETHER WITH ITS ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTATION, THE PRODUCT) IS THE PROPERTY OF BORLAND SOFTWARE CORPORATION (BORLAND). THE PRODUCT IS MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU, THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER, SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE). PLEASE READ THIS LICENSE CAREFULLY BEFORE INSTALLING OR USING THE PRODUCT. A COPY OF THIS LICENSE IS AVAILABLE FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE IN THE LICENSE.TXT FILE PROVIDED WITH THE PRODUCT. YOU MAY ACCEPT THIS LICENSE BY CLICKING ON THE I AGREE BUTTON BELOW. YOU MAY REJECT THIS LICENSE, AND TERMINATE THIS INSTALLATION PROCESS, BY CLICKING THE CANCEL BUTTON BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THIS LICENSE, THEN YOU MAY NOT INSTALL OR USE THE PRODUCT. IN THAT CASE, YOU MAY, WITHIN TEN (10) DAYS AFTER YOU FIRST RECEIVED THE PRODUCT, RETURN IT TO BORLAND OR YOUR BORLAND AUTHORIZED RESELLER, ALONG WITH ITS ORIGINAL PACKAGING AND PROOF-OF-PURCHASE, FOR A FULL REFUND. ANY USE BY YOU OF THIS PRODUCT ALSO CONSTITUTES YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Borland is only willing to grant you this License if you obtained the Product from Borland or a Borland authorized reseller. If you obtained the Product from any other source you may not install or use the Product. 1. OWNERSHIP. The Product is proprietary to Borland. The Product is licensed, not sold, to you notwithstanding any reference herein to purchases. You acknowledge and agree that: (a) the Product is protected under U.S. copyright and other laws; (b) Borland and its licensors retain all copyrights and other intellectual property rights in the Product; (c) there are no implied licenses under this License, and any rights not expressly granted to you hereunder are reserved by Borland; (d) you acquire no ownership or other interest (other than your license rights) in or to the Product; and (e) Borland owns all copies of the Product, however made. You agree that you will not, at any time, contest anywhere in the world Borland's ownership of the Product, nor will you challenge the validity of Borland's rights in the Product. You have no rights hereunder to use any trademark or service mark belonging to Borland. 2. GRANT OF LICENSE AND SCOPE OF USE. 2.1 Grant of License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Borland grants to you, if you are an individual, or, if you are an entity, one (1) designated person in your organization (Named User) a personal, nonexclusive, nontransferable and limited license to use the Product solely to create, compile (including byte code compile), test and deploy, in source or object code form, your own application programs and other works (Works) to be distributed solely under the terms of the GNU General Public License which can be found at www.borland.com/kylix/gpl.html and subject to Section 4.1 and the other terms and conditions of this License. You may install the Product on a reasonable number of machines provided that the Named User is the only individual permitted to use the Product. Subject to the other terms and conditions of this Agreement and subject to the terms of the GNU General Public License, you may distribute your Works to others. You may also make a reasonable number of copies of the Product to backup devices such as hard disks, optical media, or tape and one (1) physical CD media backup copy of the Product solely to replace the original copy provided to you if the original copy is damaged or destroyed. All rights not specifically granted to you herein are retained by Borland. 2.2 Multiple Licensed Copies. You may purchase from Borland or its authorized reseller additional licenses to permit multiple Named Users to use the Product (each, a Named User License). Such rights will be effective only when granted in writing by Borland or its authorized reseller and are conditioned upon your payment of the applicable fees. If you purchase additional Named User Licenses for the Product then you are granted for each Named User License the personal, nonexclusive, nontransferable and limited license to designate one individual in your organization as the Named User and permit such Named User to install and use the Product solely as permitted under Section 2.1. In such case, the Product may be used exclusively by the specifically designated Named Users, subject to all the terms and conditions of this License. You agree that you will not designate more Named Users than the number of
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On 3/8/06, Giuliano Colla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've carefully read the licence coming with my copy of Kylix 3 Open and there's no trace of the quoted sentence. On the contrary, all the sources of the clx - rtl - rtle carry a standard GPL license. I enclose both license.txt and the shortest source file I found. Maybe the matter is worth further investigation. GPL is incompatible with Lazarus Modifyed LGPL. Lazarus licence allows building proprietary software with it. GPL does not allow. I think it's better to improve Lazarus then to attempt take things from CLX. About compatibility, at least my software compiles well with both: http://magnifier.sourceforge.net/ -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Giuliano Colla wrote: Michael Van Canneyt ha scritto: [...] The license is an issue, though; the CLX CAN NOT be used to quoteCreate a competing product/quote. So that limits it's use in Lazarus. [...] I've carefully read the licence coming with my copy of Kylix 3 Open and there's no trace of the quoted sentence. On the contrary, all the sources of the clx - rtl - rtle carry a standard GPL license. I enclose both license.txt and the shortest source file I found. Maybe the matter is worth further investigation. ... of third parties; (g) reproduce or use the Product except as expressly authorized under Sections 2, 3 or 4; or (h) disclose or publish performance benchmark results for the I think this is the piece of the license that forbids to make a clone so to say. Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Micha Nelissen wrote: Giuliano Colla wrote: Michael Van Canneyt ha scritto: [...] The license is an issue, though; the CLX CAN NOT be used to quoteCreate a competing product/quote. So that limits it's use in Lazarus. [...] I've carefully read the licence coming with my copy of Kylix 3 Open and there's no trace of the quoted sentence. On the contrary, all the sources of the clx - rtl - rtle carry a standard GPL license. I enclose both license.txt and the shortest source file I found. Maybe the matter is worth further investigation. ... of third parties; (g) reproduce or use the Product except as expressly authorized under Sections 2, 3 or 4; or (h) disclose or publish performance benchmark results for the I think this is the piece of the license that forbids to make a clone so to say. Yes. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
I suspect that exists other sources for free pascal code. I suspect that exists lots of JEDI sources that will compile on Lazarus. Did someone tryed to compile some JEDI piece on Lazarus? JP. - Original Message - From: Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lazarus@miraclec.com Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?) On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Micha Nelissen wrote: Giuliano Colla wrote: Michael Van Canneyt ha scritto: [...] The license is an issue, though; the CLX CAN NOT be used to quoteCreate a competing product/quote. So that limits it's use in Lazarus. [...] I've carefully read the licence coming with my copy of Kylix 3 Open and there's no trace of the quoted sentence. On the contrary, all the sources of the clx - rtl - rtle carry a standard GPL license. I enclose both license.txt and the shortest source file I found. Maybe the matter is worth further investigation. ... of third parties; (g) reproduce or use the Product except as expressly authorized under Sections 2, 3 or 4; or (h) disclose or publish performance benchmark results for the I think this is the piece of the license that forbids to make a clone so to say. Yes. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On 3/8/06, João Paulo Schwarz Schuler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect that exists other sources for free pascal code. I suspect that exists lots of JEDI sources that will compile on Lazarus. Did someone tryed to compile some JEDI piece on Lazarus? JEDI-SDL bindings work very well with Lazarus. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ha scritto: [...] GPL is incompatible with Lazarus Modifyed LGPL. Lazarus licence allows building proprietary software with it. GPL does not allow. This is final. It had escaped me, because I'm not interested in proprietary software. I think it's better to improve Lazarus then to attempt take things from CLX. OK. About compatibility, at least my software compiles well with both: http://magnifier.sourceforge.net/ Well, my own doesn't. Or better it compiles but it doesn't behave as expected. I don't care too much about things which must be done differently, I care about things which aren't there. Just to make an example: Delphi TEdit has an Alignment property (like the TLabel Alignment), and a Color property, both of which I'm using to provide appropriate visual feedback in data entry forms. Alignment doesn't exist in Lazarus, and Color doesn't work. I can't get similar behavior without rewriting substantial parts of TEdit. Giuliano Colla _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On 3/8/06, Giuliano Colla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Delphi TEdit has an Alignment property (like the TLabel Alignment), and a Color property, both of which I'm using to provide appropriate visual feedback in data entry forms. Alignment doesn't exist in Lazarus, and Feel free to send a patch implementing it =) This way you don't have to rewrite TEdit, only add this small missing part of it. Color doesn't work. I can't get similar behavior without rewriting substantial parts of TEdit. It may work now. Color property for various widgets was implemented recently. thanks, -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Timothy Ha wrote: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org I understand that Borland has problems, but I doubt that people would gather enough money to buy out Delphi from Borland. Because Borland has invested too much into Delphi, and perhaps a lot of code is also patented. And why need Open Delphi when we have Free Pascal and Lazarus which are created from the ground up and can compete with Delphi, if not in Windows, then in other OSes. Timothy. Right.Better give donation to Lazarus and Fpc projects.Or create fundation. Or - buy additional feature for FPC and Lazarus - of course that must be something really interesting and useful. Just give a feature request,and discuss with developers offering donation. Maybe developers should think about it. Regards Boguslaw Brandys _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Timothy Ha wrote: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org That's plainly nonsense. As you can see, even the lazarus and free pascal contributors are little compared with other OSS projects. The OSS idea is very weak in the delphi/object pascal world. Even worse, a lot parts of delphi are written in C++ e.g. the compiler (afaik). So to contribute to an Open Delphi, it would be required that people are interested in OSS and that they know C++. Even more, considering the development speed of the delphi compiler the last years, it's evident that the code of the compiler is completely unmaintainable else Borland would have added a lot of features which isn't the case. I understand that Borland has problems, but I doubt that people would gather enough money to buy out Delphi from Borland. Because Borland has invested too much into Delphi, and perhaps a lot of code is also patented. And why need Open Delphi when we have Free Pascal and Lazarus which are created from the ground up and can compete with Delphi, if not in Windows, then in other OSes. Timothy. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Timothy Ha escreveu: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org I understand that Borland has problems, but I doubt that people would gather enough money to buy out Delphi from Borland. Because Borland has invested too much into Delphi, and perhaps a lot of code is also patented. And why need Open Delphi when we have Free Pascal and Lazarus which are created from the ground up and can compete with Delphi, if not in Windows, then in other OSes. I have to agree with you. Deplhi is a hell of a tool but I don't think it worth to buy what I understand will be very expensive. I think that give this money to the FP/Lazarus developpers or fund a development bounty will be much more productive for everyone. []s Adilson. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Timothy Ha wrote: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org That's plainly nonsense. As you can see, even the lazarus and free pascal contributors are little compared with other OSS projects. The OSS idea is very weak in the delphi/object pascal world. Even worse, a lot parts of delphi are written in C++ e.g. the compiler (afaik). So to contribute to an Open Delphi, it would be required that people are interested in OSS and that they know C++. Even more, considering the development speed of the delphi compiler the last years, it's evident that the code of the compiler is completely unmaintainable else Borland would have added a lot of features which isn't the case. I have read that is a fact that even the Delphi IDE kernel is written in C++. I don't know what they consider the kernel (probably the BPL's that power lots of the IDE) but I'd say a lot of the IDE is powered off the kernel in addition to the compiler which is also written in C/C++ and just some GUI display parts are written in Delphi in the Delphi32.exe file. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, L505 wrote: Timothy Ha wrote: I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org That's plainly nonsense. As you can see, even the lazarus and free pascal contributors are little compared with other OSS projects. The OSS idea is very weak in the delphi/object pascal world. Even worse, a lot parts of delphi are written in C++ e.g. the compiler (afaik). So to contribute to an Open Delphi, it would be required that people are interested in OSS and that they know C++. Even more, considering the development speed of the delphi compiler the last years, it's evident that the code of the compiler is completely unmaintainable else Borland would have added a lot of features which isn't the case. I have read that is a fact that even the Delphi IDE kernel is written in C++. I don't know what they consider the kernel (probably the BPL's that power lots of the IDE) but I'd say a lot of the IDE is powered off the kernel in addition to the compiler which is also written in C/C++ and just some GUI display parts are written in Delphi in the Delphi32.exe file. From what I remember: The compiler, probably the debugger also, is written in C++ and assembler. The IDE itself is written in Object Pascal. All packages are definitely in Object Pascal. And considering most of the IDE consists of packages... Maybe someone should post on opendelphi that it is far more _realistic_ to support Lazarus/FPC. 'Buying' the Delphi IDE will cost millions of Dollars (slightly less in EURO's ;) ). Supporting lazarus/FPC development can be done for less than 1% of the price. The ROI is hence _far_ greater, not to mention that the number of supported platforms is already greater, so the potential market is a lot bigger. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
The compiler, probably the debugger also, is written in C++ and assembler. The IDE itself is written in Object Pascal. All packages are definitely in Object Pascal. Some of the Delphi 5 files check out as follows: dfwedit.dll is made with borland C++ imged32.dll is made with borland C++ Inkdfm50.dll is made with Delphi rlink32.dll is made with Borland C++ rw32core.dll is made with Borland C++ lnkdfm50.dll is made with Delphi borlndmm.dll is made with Delphi conexprt.dll is made with Delphi cp3245mt.dll is made with Delphi dcc50.dll is made with Borland C++ delphimm.dll is made with Delphi grep.exe is made with Borland C++ imagedit.exe is made with Delphi make.exe is made with Borland C++ tdump.exe is made with Borland C++ tregsvr.exe is made with Delphi instreg.exe is made with Borland C++ convert.exe is made with Delphi dcc32.exe is made with Borland C++ (we knew this one ;) ) I think DFWEDIT.dll is is part of the delphi editor widget. Source of research? All files were checked with Stud_PE tool. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OpenDelphi.org (off-topic?)
Le Mercredi 1 Mars 2006 19:05, Timothy Ha a écrit : I would like to know your opinion about the new initiative called OpenDelphi.org I think it's a lost battle. Borland did'nt succeed to do a multi-O.S compiler (I bought kylix 3 pro and Delphi 7 : yes I was THE buyer of kylix3pro ! lol ). To do a project for win and linux was very difficult, maybe impossible... With Lazarus+freepascal, we can easily do a program for two or three O.S. (windows, linux macosX), not with the Borland compilers. It's too late for Delphi lol _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
