Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
In the CSV export from MLS, there is also a unique identifier created by MLS for both the family and for the individuals. I used this as my key in my Emergency Preparedness Program. Does anyone know how stable these columns are? I use it to tell if someone is new to the ward when an update happens, because I didn't want to store the membership number for privacy reasons. Jay On 5/19/07, Bill Pringle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since several of you are working on similar tools, let me tell you one of the things I implemented within my program for keeping track of updates. If you don't plan for updates up front, it becomes increasingly more difficult the further along you get into development. I have an auxiliary file that can be used to store cell phones (associated with the person, not the family), work numbers, etc. I also use it to provide information for non-members not in MLS as well as out-of-unit individuals working in the unit (such as myself). The key is to tie the entries in this file to the entries in MLS. I originally used the membership number, but that causes problems for people who don't have access to the exported CSV files. (My program can be used, for example, by an EQ/RS Pres by saving the MLS reports they have access to.) I am planning on instead using a combination of their name and phone number. I will probably generate a unique number and use that internally within my database structure. As I read entries from MLS, I would do a lookup in the index to find the unique number. If not found, I would create a new entry for the presumably new member. Most likely I will implement both methods. The membership number already exists, so all I need to do is to implement an alternative indexing method if the CSV files aren't present. (My program will fist try to read the MLS CSV export files. If they aren't found, it tries for MLS report files (using the Shift-Ctrl-C trick), and if all else fails, it will look for web pages saved from the unit web site.) As I said before, you can download my program and see how it works: http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/w/r/wrp103/lds/index.html#mls and I would be glad to send anyone the C source files if need be. One of these days, I have to upload all these tools I have to sourceforge. ;^) --- Bill Pringle work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unisysfsp.com http://www.unisys.com home/school: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.personal.psu.edu/~wrp103 http://CherylWheeler.com ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
The CSV files from MLS also contain the membership IDs, which is a permanent identification. That is what you can use and never change. The internal ID value seems fairly stable, but I only use it to match up the HT/VT and Organization records with the Membership records. I have defined an auxiliary file that I use for my program. This file contains the membership ID along with any other information I want to keep (like cell phones and e-mail for each member) By comparing the auxiliary file with the import, I can tell who is new and who is no longer on the records. --- Bill Pringle work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unisysfsp.com http://www.unisys.com home/school: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.personal.psu.edu/~wrp103 http://CherylWheeler.com ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On 5/22/07, Bill Pringle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The CSV files from MLS also contain the membership IDs, which is a permanent identification. That is what you can use and never change. The internal ID value seems fairly stable, but I only use it to match up the HT/VT and Organization records with the Membership records. I have defined an auxiliary file that I use for my program. This file contains the membership ID along with any other information I want to keep (like cell phones and e-mail for each member) By comparing the auxiliary file with the import, I can tell who is new and who is no longer on the records. Isn't the MRN confidential information though? That is why I wasn't storing it or using it. slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
Hi Tom, Having dealt with an issue in the past concerning the Membership record I can say that really depends on the country of residence. At the time I was in Holland and there an individual can request access to any record pertaining to them or minors in their care. The law there even goes as far as allowing access to the other spouse record if the individual is mentioned on it. Note that I say ACCESS, so handing out is not really the issue. How it is here I do not know. I guess it comes down to the privacy policy the church has in place for each country ;) Manfred _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Haws Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:09 PM To: LDS Open Source Software Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool I have heard it called confidential, but for the life of me I can't fathom why. Maybe like the Social Security number, some people are just touchy about such things. On that subject, I recently got a message on MLS pointing out that the Individual Ordinance Summary is for handing out to a member, but the Membership record is NOT. But again, for the life of me, I haven't yet discerned any difference between them. And I certainly can't figure out any moral justification for keeping information on people that they aren't permitted to access. Does anybody have any insight on this? Tom On 5/22/07, Slide [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/22/07, Bill Pringle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The CSV files from MLS also contain the membership IDs, which is a permanent identification. That is what you can use and never change. The internal ID value seems fairly stable, but I only use it to match up the HT/VT and Organization records with the Membership records. I have defined an auxiliary file that I use for my program. This file contains the membership ID along with any other information I want to keep (like cell phones and e-mail for each member) By comparing the auxiliary file with the import, I can tell who is new and who is no longer on the records. Isn't the MRN confidential information though? That is why I wasn't storing it or using it. slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On 5/22/07, Thomas Haws [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have heard it called confidential, but for the life of me I can't fathom why. Maybe like the Social Security number, some people are just touchy about such things. On that subject, I recently got a message on MLS pointing out that the Individual Ordinance Summary is for handing out to a member, but the Membership record is NOT. But again, for the life of me, I haven't yet discerned any difference between them. And I certainly can't figure out any moral justification for keeping information on people that they aren't permitted to access. Does anybody have any insight on this? Tom The IOS will not display anything like official probation and what not. Membership records do show that information. The idea is that if you hand out the membership record and someone has been put on probation and they leave the paper in the chapel, someone might be able to see that information. Its not necessarily to keep the information from the member themselves, but more to protect them in case they leave the paper somewhere, etc. slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
From what I understand the Membership Record can contain other confidential information. Richard Butt 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Manfred Riem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 11:17:44 AM Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool Hi Tom, Having dealt with an issue in the past concerning the Membership record I can say that really depends on the country of residence. At the time I was in Holland and there an individual can request access to any record pertaining to them or minors in their care. The law there even goes as far as allowing access to the other spouse record if the individual is mentioned on it. Note that I say ACCESS, so handing out is not really the issue. How it is here I do not know. I guess it comes down to the privacy policy the church has in place for each country ;) Manfred From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Haws Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:09 PM To: LDS Open Source Software Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool I have heard it called confidential, but for the life of me I can't fathom why. Maybe like the Social Security number, some people are just touchy about such things. On that subject, I recently got a message on MLS pointing out that the Individual Ordinance Summary is for handing out to a member, but the Membership record is NOT. But again, for the life of me, I haven't yet discerned any difference between them. And I certainly can't figure out any moral justification for keeping information on people that they aren't permitted to access. Does anybody have any insight on this? Tom On 5/22/07, Slide [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/22/07, Bill Pringle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The CSV files from MLS also contain the membership IDs, which is a permanent identification. That is what you can use and never change. The internal ID value seems fairly stable, but I only use it to match up the HT/VT and Organization records with the Membership records. I have defined an auxiliary file that I use for my program. This file contains the membership ID along with any other information I want to keep (like cell phones and e-mail for each member) By comparing the auxiliary file with the import, I can tell who is new and who is no longer on the records. Isn't the MRN confidential information though? That is why I wasn't storing it or using it. slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
Thomas Haws wrote: I have heard it [MRN] called confidential, but for the life of me I can't fathom why. Maybe like the Social Security number, some people are just touchy about such things. Well, for example, with someone's MRN (and confirmation date) you sign up for an account on the ward/stake web site or buy garments/temple clothing off ldscatalog.com as a non-member. -stacey. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On Tuesday 22 May 2007 02:09:22 pm Stacey wrote: Well, for example, with someone's MRN (and confirmation date) you sign up for an account on the ward/stake web site or buy garments/temple clothing off ldscatalog.com as a non-member. And the confirmation date is fairly guessable for most members born in the covenant to active families. Not sure how much it matters, though. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On 5/22/07, Shawn Willden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 May 2007 02:09:22 pm Stacey wrote: Well, for example, with someone's MRN (and confirmation date) you sign up for an account on the ward/stake web site or buy garments/temple clothing off ldscatalog.com as a non-member. And the confirmation date is fairly guessable for most members born in the covenant to active families. Not sure how much it matters, though. Shawn. I don't know about that, I always have to look mine up because it is not the normal first week in month X :) slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
Hence the reason to not use the MRN ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Willden Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:45 PM To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool On Tuesday 22 May 2007 02:09:22 pm Stacey wrote: Well, for example, with someone's MRN (and confirmation date) you sign up for an account on the ward/stake web site or buy garments/temple clothing off ldscatalog.com as a non-member. And the confirmation date is fairly guessable for most members born in the covenant to active families. Not sure how much it matters, though. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
re: RE: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
I don't think anyone suggested using the MRN, I think the suggestion was to use the membership ID which is not the same thing as the MRN. The membership ID is a unique identifier on that comes with the membership output CSV to identify each row on that table. Using and storing the membership ID poses no security or privacy risks. GR Manfred Riem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hence the reason to not use the MRN ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Willden Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:45 PM To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool On Tuesday 22 May 2007 02:09:22 pm Stacey wrote: Well, for example, with someone's MRN (and confirmation date) you sign up for an account on the ward/stake web site or buy garments/temple clothing off ldscatalog.com as a non-member. And the confirmation date is fairly guessable for most members born in the covenant to active families. Not sure how much it matters, though. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: RE: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On 5/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think anyone suggested using the MRN, I think the suggestion was to use the membership ID which is not the same thing as the MRN. The membership ID is a unique identifier on that comes with the membership output CSV to identify each row on that table. Using and storing the membership ID poses no security or privacy risks. GR I thought the discussion was whether that number was a stable unique number or not. I thought the suggestion had been made to use the MRN, maybe I misread. slide ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
Whatever happened to resist not evil? :-D On 5/22/07, Shawn Willden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 May 2007 02:52:47 pm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you could guess anyone's confirmation date with any degree of success regardless of if they were BIC or not. Sure you can. It just depends on how many tries you get. Give me, say, 50 attempts and I'll bet it's a very rare BIC person whose confirmation date I can't guess. In years past when confirmations were normally done on Sundays (and especially on first Sundays!) it was even easier. I don't know if the church web site does any counting of failed attempts and locks out members who have too many, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is no such checking. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: HT and VT Tool
On Tuesday 22 May 2007 04:58:34 pm Thomas Haws wrote: Whatever happened to resist not evil? :-D It was later qualified with be ye therefore wise as serpents :-) Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
