Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Yesterday at 2:56pm, Carl Youngblood said: That's interesting. Why wouldn't the government allow encrypted information over the air? Even today's common cell phones employ encryption, and of course it's all over the Internet. Is this just a relic from the cold war or something? I think it has been a rule much longer than that. My understanding of the purpose of it is that it detracts from the established purposes of the Amateur Radio Service. Passing encrypted or encoded data over amateur radio does not further those goals and purposes, and in fact, detracts from them. So the FCC rules prohibit those type of communications in amateur radio. They also prohibit transmission of music, for example. Those things just don't fit within the purposes of ham radio. As you point out, there are a whole lot of ways in which the FCC allows encrypted and encoded data to be passed over the air, but Amatuer Radio just isn't one of them. And really, there's only a real compelling reason to do so in an emergency or disaster. Alternatives exist, for example. There are other radio services that are allowed to pass encrypted data. One example would be computer wireless networks, like 802.11a, b, or g. You could use those technologies to pass encrypted data, or even to do voice-over-IP to pass voice communication if you wanted. The distances that can be covered with such networks are comparable to what the VHF and UHF ham frequencies can cover, given the right antennas. The 802.11 protocols can be used for links spanning as much as 5-25 miles or more, with good antennas on both ends and a good line of sight. Mac On 1/17/06, Mac Newbold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There would be no technological limitations to what you propose, you _could_ send encrypted data, for example via SSL, SSH, TLS, PGP/GPG, or whatever you like. However, there are legal limitations. In particular, it is illegal to pass coded or encrypted information over amateur radio. If sending -- Mac Newbold MNE - Mac Newbold Enterprises, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.macnewbold.com/ ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Sunday at 6:40am, Carl Youngblood said: On 1/12/06, Oscar Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: through the 40's, 50's and into today. Ham traffic can not be secured to encrypt the data as required by some of the new privacy laws. As I read the regs I can not see any legal way to pass traffic which may reveal information about the heath or status of anyone especially a minor. Also if a cell phone I am no ham radio expert, but I have seen ads for digital ham radio setups that can transfer whatever data you want. If you can transfer whatever data you want, then you can use PKI and/or diffie/helman to transfer data securely. There would be no technological limitations to what you propose, you _could_ send encrypted data, for example via SSL, SSH, TLS, PGP/GPG, or whatever you like. However, there are legal limitations. In particular, it is illegal to pass coded or encrypted information over amateur radio. If sending encrypted data would have the clear and immediate effect of saving someone's life, there's a possibility that it qualifies for an exception, but I can't see how encrypted data would do that where unencrypted data wouldn't. And personally, if my life were in immediate danger, I'd rather have someone help me, even if it meant identifying me on the air. In many places there's a chance that good samaritan laws could protect you against claims that you illegally divulged someone's personal information on the air, but IANAL. Mac -- Mac Newbold MNE - Mac Newbold Enterprises, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.macnewbold.com/ ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
That's interesting. Why wouldn't the government allow encrypted information over the air? Even today's common cell phones employ encryption, and of course it's all over the Internet. Is this just a relic from the cold war or something? On 1/17/06, Mac Newbold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There would be no technological limitations to what you propose, you _could_ send encrypted data, for example via SSL, SSH, TLS, PGP/GPG, or whatever you like. However, there are legal limitations. In particular, it is illegal to pass coded or encrypted information over amateur radio. If sending ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Earlier than that - WWII... HAM/Side Band has been around a long time. Carl Youngblood wrote: That's interesting. Why wouldn't the government allow encrypted information over the air? Even today's common cell phones employ encryption, and of course it's all over the Internet. Is this just a relic from the cold war or something? On 1/17/06, Mac Newbold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There would be no technological limitations to what you propose, you _could_ send encrypted data, for example via SSL, SSH, TLS, PGP/GPG, or whatever you like. However, there are legal limitations. In particular, it is illegal to pass coded or encrypted information over amateur radio. If sending ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
On 1/12/06, Oscar Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: through the 40's, 50's and into today. Ham traffic can not be secured toencrypt the data as required by some of the new privacy laws. As I read theregs I can not see any legal way to pass traffic which may reveal information about the heath or status of anyone especially a minor. Also if a cell phoneI am no ham radio expert, but I have seen ads for digital ham radio setups that can transfer whatever data you want. If you can transfer whatever data you want, then you can use PKI and/or diffie/helman to transfer data securely. Carl ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Hi Jay, Can you resend your sources I accidently deleted them when setting up a rule on my mail server. Note I am sending this one to the mailinglist. Kind regards,Manfred Riem From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Manfred RiemSent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:02 PMTo: 'LDS Open Source Software'Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software Hi Jay, I have been using Hibernate what's your problem ;) Kind regards,Manfred Riem From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay AskrenSent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:38 PMTo: LDS Open Source SoftwareSubject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software I sent an email the other day about software I'm creating for my ward. I created a little web page so you can get an idea of what it will do and look like: http://jay.askren.net/emergency/ Also, if there are any Java developers out there who have used Hibernate, I would be interested in talking to you. I've been having a little trouble using it. Jay ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Mac Newbold wrote: Today at 12:01am, Oscar Schultz said: I'm more interested in the communications part of EP. Most plans I see setup a structure around ham radio ops and voice or cw traffic as done from the 30's through the 40's, 50's and into today. Ham traffic can not be secured to encrypt the data as required by some of the new privacy laws. As I read the regs I can not see any legal way to pass traffic which may reveal information about the heath or status of anyone especially a minor. Also if a cell phone is available you may not be able to legally pass traffic of any meaningful nature via a ham radio (even if the cell phone only works some). How are various folks/groups dealing with the requirements to protect personal information? What do folks understand the FCC regs of data traffic on Ham versus cell phones to include? The Church is the force pushing ham radio for emergency communication. There is a calling at the stake (and in some cases, ward) level for Emergency Communications Specialist. Their calling is to be a ham radio operator (or work closely with one) to coordinate communication between the stake and the Church (via the local Welfare Region, generally) in an emergency. The Church has numerous resources in place to facilitate such emergency communication, and there's a weekly on-the-air training meeting, in the Salt Lake area at least, for people serving this way. The church has radio equipment and operators ready, including repeaters with emergency power, so that they can maintain effective communication in a disaster. That network is not all inclusive. Even though the FCC removed the requirement for Morse Code to get a license some years back, there has not been a surge in HAM/SSB and other forms of licensed communication. Many people still find it easier to use whatever is available and do not consider what happens in an emergency to the public grid. The guideline on privacy that I heard last time I talked with them (about a year ago, more or less) was that no names or identifying information was to be passed on the air. They said that primarily it would be a matter of identifying the stake for which you were reporting, and giving information about the current situation and needs and what assistance you may be able to provide to others. All information about people (members or not) would be in the form of numbers only - counts of people, totals, and never names or other personally identifying information. Regarding cell phones, they'll be heavily used in a disaster if the towers stay in service. If 30-50% of cell phone owners try and use them at the same time, the towers won't stay in service for long, they just can't handle that capacity. I'm not sure what you're talking about with regards to it being illegal to pass traffic of any meaningful nature via a ham radio (even if the cell phone only works some). My cell phone works great right now, and it is perfectly legal for me to use my ham radio, to pass meaningful information or just to pass the time. I know of nothing that would restrict use of ham radios depending on whether or not the cell or other phone networks were operable. All the amatuer radio rules regarding priority of traffic and yeilding a channel to higher priority traffic are in full force regardless of any emergency situation. A general rule of thumb that has been in use for some time has been to dump all public traffic, starting with long distance service and working back towards local phone traffic in order to keep the lines clear for emergency service personnel and reverse 911 service to order evacuations if needed. This includes cell phones as they connect to the PSTN through the providing carrier. As an example, in the Northridge CA earthquake a few years back, local, long distance and cell traffic was dumped by the major carriers as their systems were swamped with people trying to call out for help, to tell relatives they were OK, and people trying to call in to check on relatives. What most people don't understand is that many of the phone networks in the US and around the world are incapable of handling simultaneous traffic for ALL the phone numbers they actually issue. To wit: If everyone in SLC picked the phone at the same time and tried to dial out, US West would be overwhelmed with the number of attempts to connect somewhere as they do not provide the processing or the line capability to handle it. Most of the time, their networks are underutilized as not everyone will pick up the phone and occupy and virtual circuit all at once all day long. As such, they estimate they're average utilization and peak hours and provision according to that calculation. It's called the Erlanger ratio for anyone who understands phone networks. I'm interested in finding out more about the privacy laws to which you refer. I as a private person am under no commitment of which I am aware to protect
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
On Friday 13 January 2006 09:19 am, Mac Newbold wrote: Today at 12:01am, Oscar Schultz said: I'm more interested in the communications part of EP. Most plans I see setup a structure around ham radio ops and voice or cw traffic as done snip /snip The Church is the force pushing ham radio for emergency communication. There is a calling at the stake (and in some cases, ward) level for Emergency Communications Specialist. Their calling is to be a ham radio operator (or work closely with one) to coordinate communication between the stake and the Church (via the local Welfare Region, generally) in an emergency. The Church has numerous resources in place to facilitate such emergency communication, and there's a weekly on-the-air training meeting, in the Salt Lake area at least, for people serving this way. The church has radio equipment and operators ready, including repeaters with emergency power, so that they can maintain effective communication in a disaster. True -in my area it is mostly central station flow controlled voice traffic - very low volume - it works but most of the time bandwidth is wasted in overhead - that's the way voice traffic works. The guideline on privacy that I heard last time I talked with them (about a year ago, more or less) was that no names or identifying information was to be passed on the air. They said that primarily it would be a matter of identifying the stake for which you were reporting, and giving information about the current situation and needs and what assistance you may be able to provide to others. All information about people (members or not) would be in the form of numbers only - counts of people, totals, and never names or other personally identifying information. It is too easy to disregard the guideline while trying to do the right thing. The non life-threatening traffic really should be carryed on a RTTY type net just to conserve the bandwidth on the voice net. Converting to digital allows filtering and other content control methods. Regarding cell phones, snip /snip http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ see part 97.113.a.5 - once cell phones or FRS or any other radio service becomes available the amateur station is to basically close down. What would interest me would be to setup a station(s) and apps to pass traffic that is very difficult to pass using current methods - basically email, pictures, video, various HTML forms (building inspections, work party schedules, material orders (where do you need a tarp and what size)) - all the stuff needed to stabilize/rebuild a region. The bulk of the data is third party and contains too much volume to pass in a voice network. What I see is many NAT'ed local networks (10BaseT?) with multiple nodes. Perhaps 1 per Ward or building (or even 1 per work team - laptop with radio). Each NAT server would connect to the outside world (next up center) via a radio link (2 meter, 440, cw, software radios, ???). The idea is much like how my home network (10 nodes) is connected to the internet via a diald link. With the correct apps the local net could provide level 1 coordination and act as a cache to outside services to coordinate the outflow of area needs and information. A HT/VTer could report simply by selecting a simple html form from a web server on the local server, fill it in and submit it. An Apache script (php?) could process the form data and coordinate emergency/high priority needs. The entire system minus the radio links could be tested and training done almost anytime just be using standard links like modems, lans or wifis. I would love to see a 2 meter or 3 band radio I could connect to a computer via usb or ethernet tcpip. The big ? is how to setup the links using plain jane radios or whatever you have or can get. Software radios look very interesting. If one could just get even 36kbaud down a 2 meter link how different things would be. 300 and 1200 baud is a bit limiting. oscar ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
I'd like to gently remind folks that all the data in MLS is confidential. Exporting data out does not reduce the requirement to protect the data. Each report contains the notice For Church use only. For the time being I suggest sitting down and reviewing MLS's other talents. The use of special categories and geographic zones is made for extended classifications. Our Ward/Stake was able to setup MIS to contain the data for EP 10 years ago. The functions needed are contained in MLS. Admin overhead is reduced using MLS because as members move in or out their records are automagically added and removed. The hard part is keeping up on entering the data of talent and resource from surveys. Also remember information about who has what property/resources, talents/interests is VERY private to many (most) people. For people of other faiths you can add them to the local MLS database. Simply add them and answer N (non-member) in the membership status field. Keeping record of who has a truck is great - if the truck still runs and can be used. Keeping the data up to date is enough to keep 2 membership clerks very busy. The Sec. in the RS, Elders, HPs can be a great asset since they can be used to update the HT/VT info each month. I'd suggest asking for a talent/resource survey to be filled out each quarter from each adult and young adult member. Then updating MLS at least quarterly. Again - All data should be considered confidential. Anyone receiving any data should receive clear instructions to correctly destroy (paper shred, disk wipe, etc) the data once it is not needed. Also instructions should be given to protect the confidentiality of the data. If someone does not need the data they should not have access to it. Printing a quarterly list (folder) of resources is about the only way to make the info available when there is no power. I'm more interested in the communications part of EP. Most plans I see setup a structure around ham radio ops and voice or cw traffic as done from the 30's through the 40's, 50's and into today. Ham traffic can not be secured to encrypt the data as required by some of the new privacy laws. As I read the regs I can not see any legal way to pass traffic which may reveal information about the heath or status of anyone especially a minor. Also if a cell phone is available you may not be able to legally pass traffic of any meaningful nature via a ham radio (even if the cell phone only works some). How are various folks/groups dealing with the requirements to protect personal information? What do folks understand the FCC regs of data traffic on Ham versus cell phones to include? Good luck Oscar On Wednesday 11 January 2006 08:05 pm, Jeff Raymond wrote: One point that has come up in our bishopric meetings is the need to involve nonmember households in our neighborhood preparedness planning. Since our community is mostly LDS, some non-members may feel left out of neighborhood preparedness planning. Perhaps this might be something to consider with respect to information dynamics and who the possible beneficiaries of this software would be. Thanks, Jeff ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Le Mercredi 11 Janvier 2006 03:43, Jay Askren a écrit : So, I just sent an email to the list with a link with more information about the app. That should give you a better idea of what I'm creating. Let me know if you would find it useful in your ward. I hope to have the data entry part done in Februrary or so. Jay I took the time to look at it. I downloaded the prototype in Microsoft Access and I tried it. It seems to be good in its idea and in its design. I just need to translate it to make it usefull in my own ward! However, I read the other posts and : - What is MLS ? (Sorry, but I am in France and obviously we don't have the application for the moment) - There is non licensing information for the moment, neither in the file or the web page? GPL? - You say that you want to develop it in Java. Why not? I think you want it to be multi-plateform. QT? (I tried... :) ). I am ok to write the doc, to translate it in French and Spanish and to package it for Kubuntu and Debian in a way or another. Sidoine -- http://www.openix.fr Tel: 04 76 70 31 39 / 06 15 64 70 74 ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Yesterday at 9:30pm, Jay Askren said: 1. Security This is my biggest concern. If someone would hack into the application or the server, this would be very bad publicity for the ward and the church in general. I would imagine it could cause many to go inactive. I plan to store names of all family members, email addresses, phone numbers, addresses, birthdates, and membership numbers. I could see that being a big problem if someone hacked into the system. This is probably a bigger concern since I would be using a free server. 2. I don't know that the church would be ok with it. These two go together: I don't think the church would be okay with you pulling all of that very confidential information (birthdates and membership numbers?) out of MLS and into some other system. I also don't see how membership numbers help in an emergency preparedness system. Birthdates are understandable, but I think that substantially the same thing could be accomplished with a birthyear or age field instead. The contact information isn't quite as sensitive, in my opinion, as much of it is already published elsewhere. If you can eliminate the need for especially sensitive information, and use SSL (even a self-signed cert), and know what you're doing in your web development, it isn't impossible to write a secure application. Of course, the security of the machine hosting it is also a factor in the overall security of your data. So on MS Windows, it might be a losing battle no matter what... ;) 3. Administration If we create a web application, we would also need someone who can do basic administration stuff, like redeploy the application when it goes down and stuff like that. That means if I move, either we find someone else to do it in the ward to do basic admin stuff, or the emergency preparedness program dies. If they have a simple application, practically anyone can use it who can use a computer. This is going to be an issue with any system. Ease of use and ease of administration are separate issues, but I think you may be right, an app that doesn't require a web server would probably be easier to administer. Though make sure to consider how to install it, import and export data, and migrate it from one computer to another. The counter argument to this is that having it available on just one computer as a desktop app means only one person can view or edit it at a time, and they have to be physically present at the computer where the program runs. Which would basically force it to be a clerk's office program in most cases. And a clerk's office computer already has enough contention for getting into MLS in most wards. 4. Without internet access, the app can't be used. 5. Web hosting generally cost money Both of these go away if the computer hosting it is running Apache (for example). It's easy to host an Apache+PHP system on any OS (especially with WAMP or LAMP setups, or even on OSX). This would also mean your program could be cross platform, both for hosting it and for accessing it. And when the machine is connected to the internet, the program would be accessible, and when it isn't, it would still work locally. At least then you'd have the choice of internet operation or not. If you're going to make this open source, writing it in PHP for example would make it more accessible to people who want to customize it. Also, believe it or not, some clerk's offices are authorized for internet access, and I hope they continue in that direction. When your clerk or exec sec (whoever's in charge of the web site on lds.org) doesn't have internet at home, it's a real pain, not to mention the difficulty of getting everything updated when you can't just pull it up along side MLS to compare. One last note: I may be wrong about this, but last time I looked, I seem to remember that MLS had support for adding custom talents or somesuch to a user's record, so that things like has a truck, chainsaw, or generator, is a doctor, nurse, or EMT, or is trained in CPR, first aid, home construction, or emergency radio communications, could be added directly in MLS, so you wouldn't need to write a separate application at all, nor worry about exporting sensitive MLS data to somewhere else. Plus it would get backed up automatically every time MLS gets backed up, and possibly even backed up to Church HQ with the other data. Mac -- Mac Newbold MNE - Mac Newbold Enterprises, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.macnewbold.com/ ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
One point that has come up in our bishopric meetings is the need to involve nonmember households in our neighborhood preparedness planning. Since our community is mostly LDS, some non-members may feel left out of neighborhood preparedness planning. Perhaps this might be something to consider with respect to information dynamics and who the possible beneficiaries of this software would be. Thanks, Jeff ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
We were just talking about this in our welfare meeting. We were trying to deciding what to do with available resources and how to keep it current. Our stake is spearheading preparedness with the aid of the wards. So the answer to your first question is yes it would be very useful. However, Im sorry to say that I wont be able to help develop it. But I can give you encouragement if you decide to do it. ;-) Thanks, Jeff From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Askren Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:12 PM To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Subject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software In our ward I've been asked to put together a little database to store Emergency Preparedness information such as who has a truck, who has a generator, who knows CPR or First Aid, etc. It will be a Java application and import data directly from MLS. I was wondering if this application would be useful for anyone else. I also was wondering if anyone else would be interested in helping to develop it. Jay ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Well, thanks for the encouragement. :) I can sendyou more details on what I have planned. I'll try to do that tonight.What Stake are you in? Jay On 1/10/06, Jeff Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were just talking about this in our welfare meeting. We were trying to deciding what to do with available resources and how to keep it current. Our stake is spearheading preparedness with the aid of the wards. So the answer to your first question is yes it would be very useful. However, I'm sorry to say that I won't be able to help develop it. But I can give you encouragement if you decide to do it. ;-) Thanks, Jeff From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jay AskrenSent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:12 PMTo: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.orgSubject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software In our ward I've been asked to put together a little database to store Emergency Preparedness information such as who has a truck, who has a generator, who knows CPR or First Aid, etc. It will be a Java application and import data directly from MLS. I was wondering if this application would be useful for anyone else. I also was wondering if anyone else would be interested in helping to develop it. Jay ___Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.orghttp://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
On 1/9/06, Jay Askren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In our ward I've been asked to put together a little database to store Emergency Preparedness information such as who has a truck, who has a generator, who knows CPR or First Aid, etc. It will be a Java application and import data directly from MLS. I was wondering if this application would be useful for anyone else. I also was wondering if anyone else would be interested in helping to develop it. Is there any reason something like this couldn't be web-based so everyone can have convenient, yet still secure, access to it? Bryan ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Great, thanks for the response. Mt. Logan Stake, Logan, UT. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Askren Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:24 AM To: LDS Open Source Software Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software Well, thanks for the encouragement. :) I can sendyou more details on what I have planned. I'll try to do that tonight.What Stake are you in? Jay On 1/10/06, Jeff Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were just talking about this in our welfare meeting. We were trying to deciding what to do with available resources and how to keep it current. Our stake is spearheading preparedness with the aid of the wards. So the answer to your first question is yes it would be very useful. However, I'm sorry to say that I won't be able to help develop it. But I can give you encouragement if you decide to do it. ;-) Thanks, Jeff From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jay Askren Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:12 PM To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Subject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software In our ward I've been asked to put together a little database to store Emergency Preparedness information such as who has a truck, who has a generator, who knows CPR or First Aid, etc. It will be a Java application and import data directly from MLS. I was wondering if this application would be useful for anyone else. I also was wondering if anyone else would be interested in helping to develop it. Jay ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
Hi Jay, I have been using Hibernate what's your problem ;) Kind regards,Manfred Riem From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay AskrenSent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:38 PMTo: LDS Open Source SoftwareSubject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software I sent an email the other day about software I'm creating for my ward. I created a little web page so you can get an idea of what it will do and look like: http://jay.askren.net/emergency/ Also, if there are any Java developers out there who have used Hibernate, I would be interested in talking to you. I've been having a little trouble using it. Jay ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software
I'm trying to set up the mapping files. I've gotseveral many to many mappings. One in particular includes needs of families. Needs include having an elderly person in the home, not having transportation, or having small children for instance. I havea table to store family information(family_t) and a table to store needs of families(potential_need_t). So, I created an intermittant table(family_need_t) connecting the two so I can have two many-to-one relationships. That's what the hibernate book said to do. In doing that I used a composite id in the family_need_t, because the combination of primary keys from the other tables must be unique. Anyhow, I have two problems. First, when I try to generate the ddl, I get the following error: testGenerateDdl(org.lds.wilmington.christiana.preparedness.PersistenceTest)org.hibernate.MappingException: Association references unmapped class: org.lds.wilmington.christiana.preparedness.data.FamilyNeed Second, in trying to research the problem I came across a forum where someone said it is a bad idea to use composite id's because it is a huge performance hit. I've also read that it's a bad idea to use many-to-many relationships, so I'm wondering what the preferred thing to do is when one has a many to many relationship. I've included the mapping files below. Are these questions you would know the answer too? I would be happy to send you the code if you would be willing to look at it. If not, that's ok, I was about to post a message in a hibernate forum, and see if anyone there could help me. Thanks a ton. ?xml version=1.0? !DOCTYPE hibernate-mapping PUBLIC -//Hibernate/Hibernate Mapping DTD 3.0//EN http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/hibernate-mapping-3.0.dtd hibernate-mapping package=org.lds.wilmington.christiana.preparedness.data class name=PotentialNeed table=potential_needs_t id name=potentialNeedId column=potential_need_id type=int generator class=sequence / /id property name=potentialNeed column=potential_need type=string / set name=familyNeeds inverse=true table=family_need_t key column=potential_need_id / one-to-many class=FamilyNeed / /set /class /hibernate-mapping ?xml version=1.0? !DOCTYPE hibernate-mapping PUBLIC -//Hibernate/Hibernate Mapping DTD 3.0//EN http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/hibernate-mapping-3.0.dtd hibernate-mapping package=org.lds.wilmington.christiana.preparedness.data class name=FamilyNeed table=family_need_t composite-id key-many-to-one name=familyId class=Family column=family_id / key-many-to-one name=potentialNeedId class=PotentialNeed column=potential_need_id / /composite-id /class /hibernate-mapping ?xml version=1.0? !DOCTYPE hibernate-mapping PUBLIC -//Hibernate/Hibernate Mapping DTD 3.0//EN http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/hibernate-mapping-3.0.dtd hibernate-mapping package=org.lds.wilmington.christiana.preparedness.data class name=Family table=family_t id name=familyId column=family_id type=int generator class=identity / /id property name=streetAddress column=street_address type=string / property name=zipCode column=zip_code type=int / property name=gridNumber column=grid_number type=string / property name=emergencyName column=emergency_name type=string / property name=ableToHousePeople column=able_to_house_people type=boolean / property name=numAdultsCanHouse column=num_adults_can_house type=int / property name=numChildrenCanHouse column=num_children_can_house type=int / property name=notes column=notes type=string / property name=dateAltered column=date_altered type=date / set name=familyMembers table=person_t key column=person_id/ one-to-many class=Person / /set many-to-one name=city column=city_id class=City / many-to-one name=neighborhood column=neighborhood_id class=Neighborhood not-null=false/ set name=familyNeeds inverse=true table=family_need_t key column=potential_need_id / one-to-many class=FamilyNeed / /set set name=familyResources inverse=true table=family_resources_t key column=resource_id/ one-to-many class=FamilyResource / /set set name=familySkills inverse=true table=family_skill_t key column=skill_id/ one-to-many class=FamilySkill / /set /class /hibernate-mapping On 1/10/06, Manfred Riem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jay, I have been using Hibernate what's your problem ;) Kind regards,Manfred Riem From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jay AskrenSent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:38 PM To: LDS Open Source SoftwareSubject: [Ldsoss] Emergency Preparedness Software I sent an email the other day about software I'm creating for my ward. I created a little web page so you can get an idea of what it will do and look like: http://jay.askren.net/emergency/ Also, if there are any Java developers out there who have used Hibernate, I would be interested in talking to you. I've been having a little trouble using it. Jay ___Ldsoss mailing listLdsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
