Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Noyes wrote: | Charles, | Forth code is hard to find. The best I could locate is here: | | http://forth.sourceforge.net/ | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/forth/forth-repository/ Yep...the language is hard to search on (with forth being a very common english word), and most of the public code was around in the old printed listing and maybe online BBS days. Not a lot in a searchable archive form on the 'net. | I'll look for lua source next. Good luck! - -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDCGsSLywbqEHdNFwRAvB9AJ0a58XwSS1XbpwX/OUeRHERdpPErACeOeqR iFo13QtaaUbZfpL/FVRiJqU= =Ppo9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 04:52, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Yep...the language is hard to search on (with forth being a very common english word), and most of the public code was around in the old printed listing and maybe online BBS days. Not a lot in a searchable archive form on the 'net. Charles, Is this what you're looking for? Data Compression and Decompression in Tight Places http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone22/cat208/2252.htm I describe in this report an implementation of a general purpose data compression/decompression algorithm which is simple, achieves good compression, and uses few memory resources. File compression techniques for Forth programmers. | I'll look for lua source next. Good luck! It looks like lua programmers are using zlib. Lua is able to use C functions. 24 - An Overview of the C API http://www.lua.org/pil/24.html -- Mike Noyes mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
Mike, I think Charles means that we need tar and gzip equivalents in a interpreter language because that's the compression we use with every package (lrp = tar.gz). Those utilities are needed to install the packages with the linuxrc script inside the initramfs. Zlib is completely different and would also mean to include the zlib library next to the lua binary inside the initramfs, which is probably much bigger than using the native klibc compiled utilities. But we have some options to make things smaller and maybe even use the klibc utilities (if the needed ones are implemented yet). We (Bering-uClibc team) did some testing with read-only fs (romfs) in initrd, instead of minix and lzma compression of initrd and the kernel. It's also possible to use lzma on an initramfs It has some drawbacks, first with a read-only fs in the initial ramdisk (read-only seems to be the only option in initramfs anyway) it isn't possible to populate /dev before the root tmpfs is created. This means that you can't set tmpfs sizes in leaf.cfg anymore, this has to be done in syslinux.cfg (or an other bootloader config file). Secondly, if you use lzma you can't back-up the initrd anymore within a running system. Well you can but the utilities to do this are so big that you will loose the space savings enterily. This will probably also be the case in an initramfs anyway. I remember Charles talking about getting initial modules out of an initramfs so this may become a non issue. But even with those space savings it's possible that the size increase due to a 2.6 kernel and the pre-init utilities makes the image a lot bigger. Well, like I said before there are not much advantages right now but it's definitly something we look at. Eric On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 04:52, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Yep...the language is hard to search on (with forth being a very common english word), and most of the public code was around in the old printed listing and maybe online BBS days. Not a lot in a searchable archive form on the 'net. Charles, Is this what you're looking for? Data Compression and Decompression in Tight Places http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone22/cat208/2252.htm I describe in this report an implementation of a general purpose data compression/decompression algorithm which is simple, achieves good compression, and uses few memory resources. File compression techniques for Forth programmers. | I'll look for lua source next. Good luck! It looks like lua programmers are using zlib. Lua is able to use C functions. 24 - An Overview of the C API http://www.lua.org/pil/24.html -- Mike Noyes mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 09:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, I think Charles means that we need tar and gzip equivalents in a interpreter language because that's the compression we use with every package (lrp = tar.gz). Those utilities are needed to install the packages with the linuxrc script inside the initramfs. Zlib is completely different and would also mean to include the zlib library next to the lua binary inside the initramfs, which is probably much bigger than using the native klibc compiled utilities. But we have some options to make things smaller and maybe even use the klibc utilities (if the needed ones are implemented yet). Eric, There is a gcc wrapper (klcc) for compiling applications with klibc. Gzip, ash, and syslinux are already ported. Is tar the only missing item? http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/klibc/cvsroot/klibc/ klcc.1,v klcc.in,v -- Mike Noyes mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
Mike, Tar is not the only thing missing, f.e. there is no makedevs utility available and probably some other tools we need in linuxrc. Eric, Point taken. There are quite a few missing pieces. :-( Note: I believe udev replaced makedevs in linux 2.6. True, but udev is huge :-) Noted, and as I said before, I'm not recommending Bering uClibc move yet or ever. I still think we should evaluate and work up some prof-of-concept/Alpha linux_2.6+initramfs release for the community to play with. We will definitly move if new drivers are only available in kernel 2.6 or other advantages will show up. I'll stop now. :-( ;-) Eric --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] 2.6.x kernel support?
Hi Mike, Eric, We load and write to a compressed image currently. Initramfs is just a cpio image. I thought we could remove some complexity. We write to a gzip compressed loop mounted minix filesystem, we could indeed remove a bit of complexity. We could also use a gzip compressed romfs to have the same level of complexity as with a cpio image. But like romfs, initramfs is read only (AFAIK) so has the drawback of not being able to populate /dev before tmpfs in linuxrc. Besides, cpio is a seperate program (adding size) while we currently are using gzip for both initrd as the packages. e.g. initramfs -- ramfs/cramfs --backup-- cpio initramfs image Both ramfs and cramfs are read only and need big (especially cramfs) programs to make backup possible. We tested with romfs which userspace fs creation program is smaller than (c)ramfs. Probably just a bad WAG by me. Sorry I brought it up. :-( No problem, interesting discussion :-) Eric --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
