RE: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-05 Thread Nathan Angelacos



To sum up many posts and hopefully wrap up this thread...

I've posted a new sshd.lrp at www.nothome.org:8000 

The only change is a new /usr/sbin/add-sshd-user script, in response to Charles' 
comment that it would be nice to have a script to add the sshd user.  The script isn't 
pretty, and it is fairly large (4K), but hopefully it covers 80% of the cases of 
creating the sshd user and group.  Yes, it normally takes 4 lines of script to do 
that, but this script "tries real hard" (TM) to:

* (by default) add sshd UID 22, GID 22 to the password and group files
* If the GRP and GID variables at the top of the script are changed, it will use those 
(perhaps "nogroup", as Michael D. Schleif suggested)
* Use a different UID, if desired for some reason
* Add the sshd user only if it does not already exist
* Add the sshd user with a different UID if the requested UID is already in use
* Add the defined group only if it does not exist
* Add the defined group with a different GID if the requested GID is already in use
* Insert the user and group into passwd & group in numerical order, not "at the end of 
the file"
* Reset the permissions & ownership on the new passwd,group, and shadow files even if 
your group file is broken
* Allow you to run all of this on a test directory first (see PTH variable, at top)

---

The script is *not* listed in the package list, and is specifically listed in the 
exclude.list, so that it won't get backed up when sshd.lrp is backed up.

The idea is to install sshd, run add-sshd-user as root, backup etc, backup sshd, and 
never think about this again.

For those interested in the script only, I've placed it at the web site mentioned 
above as  a text file (add-sshd-user.txt)  Anyone is welcome to do anything they want 
with this script.

-

George Georgalis asked if it was possible to compile sshd without zlib (which makes 
sense, since compression must be turned off to use privilege separation).  As far as I 
was able to tell, zlib is required to compile sshd.   But the space requirements 
aren't that bad, since sshd and ssh are both dynamically linked against zlib.

Finally, Greg Morgan pointed out that he hadn't seen many port 22 probes recently ... 
dshield.org doesn't list port 22 very high either.  Such is life; at least we were 
prepared.  :-)  

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.



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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-03 Thread Greg Morgan

Interesting observations in the logs.  

When the SSH zlib problem came up, I had lots of port 22 entries in the
logs for awhile.  

Until Monday I had not been nmaped port scanned in a long long time.  It
appears like the hackers like to use class C range scans on one port.  I
have two dachstein firewalls on @cox network.  I see the same ip
addresses hitting on port, say, 21 about one hour and a half a part from
each other. Both firewalls use the same time server to keep the clocks
maintained.  

When the privilege escalation OpenSSH problem was announced there were
no new 22 port scans noted.  In fact I had 11 port scans for port 21
over two days on July 1 and 2.  That was out of 16 logged.  July 3 is a
pre holiday day and the Deny messages are light. I finally have 4 port
22 denies, and 2 port 21 deny out of 8 denies logged.

Greg Morgan


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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-03 Thread Michael D. Schleif


Nathan Angelacos wrote:
> 
> >I'm curious about /etc/group modification?
> >
> >I've upgraded two (2) potato's and two (2) woody's.  Yes, there is a
> >new user in passwd/shadow; but, I do not have any new group for
> >sshd.
> >
> >Yes, I have seen the instructions for installing manually; but, I
> >cannot find a reason for the special group.
> >
> >What do you think?
> 
> Good question.  I wondered the same thing, figured "'cause Theo said
> so.." and dismissed it.  But after you asked, I checked the source...
> :-)
> 
> sshd.c in privsep_preauth_child does a setgid() from the sshd's
> primary group (in passwd) when setting up the chroot jail.  The
> manual instructions make sure that the uid:gid is sshd:sshd.
> So I guess "'cause Theo said so" works. :-)
> 
> I'm curious though, on your debian systems, what is the gid for the
> sshd user?  The sshd.c source seems to indicate that sshd will fail
> if the group doesn't exist.

OK, here is the debian position:

[a] # grep ssh /etc/passwd
/etc/passwd:sshd:x:103:65534::/home/sshd:/bin/false

[b] # grep 65534 /etc/group
nogroup:x:65534:

[c] According to the openssh sshd.8 manpage:

   /var/empty
chroot(2) directory used by sshd during privilege separation in
the pre-authentication phase.  The directory should not contain
any files and must be owned by root and not group or world-
writable.

[d] debian changed this at compile time to: /var/run/sshd

[e] So, there is *NO* requirement for group sshd.

[f] There is a requirement for an existing directory to which to chroot
-- he default is /var/empty .

Therefore, in my ssh v3.4p1 distribution for LEAF, I adding the sshd
user and using the debian nogroup group.  Regardless which way to go, an
*empty* /var/empty directory *MUST* exist!

hth

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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Greg Morgan

Nathan Angelacos wrote:
> 
> On 1 Jul 2002 at 22:38, Greg Morgan wrote:
> 

> Long answer:  According to
> 
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=102495293705094&w2
> 
> Privilege separation takes ~24500 lines of code and puts it in a chroot
> jail, leaving only ~2500 lines of code running as root. I believe the
> thinking here is that privilege separation doesn't fix this problem
> specifically; it makes it less likely for there to be privilege escalation
> in the future. Privilege separation was evidently available in earlier
> versions of openSSH, the difference is that it is now the default.

Thanks. Your paragraph provides some additional information I had not
received.  It appears to be a simple choice based on the above
information. chroot is better.

Greg Morgan


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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Michael D. Schleif


Nathan Angelacos wrote:
> 
> >I'm curious about /etc/group modification?
> >
> >I've upgraded two (2) potato's and two (2) woody's.  Yes, there is a
> >new user in passwd/shadow; but, I do not have any new group for
> >sshd.
> >
> >Yes, I have seen the instructions for installing manually; but, I
> >cannot find a reason for the special group.
> >
> >What do you think?
> 
> Good question.  I wondered the same thing, figured "'cause Theo said
> so.." and dismissed it.  But after you asked, I checked the source...
> :-)
> 
> sshd.c in privsep_preauth_child does a setgid() from the sshd's
> primary group (in passwd) when setting up the chroot jail.  The
> manual instructions make sure that the uid:gid is sshd:sshd.
> So I guess "'cause Theo said so" works. :-)
> 
> I'm curious though, on your debian systems, what is the gid for the
> sshd user?  The sshd.c source seems to indicate that sshd will fail
> if the group doesn't exist.

Precisely my point!  sshd is working without incident on all of these
boxen.  I thought the same as you, that this should fail of give me some
kind of error log; but, I haven't found anything wrong and I've been
using it for nearly a week now ;<

How can I check which gid it's using, since once it's successfully
logged in it resorts to root?

What do you think?

-- 

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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Nathan Angelacos


>I'm curious about /etc/group modification?
>
>I've upgraded two (2) potato's and two (2) woody's.  Yes, there is a 
>new user in passwd/shadow; but, I do not have any new group for 
>sshd.
>
>Yes, I have seen the instructions for installing manually; but, I 
>cannot find a reason for the special group.
>
>What do you think?

Good question.  I wondered the same thing, figured "'cause Theo said 
so.." and dismissed it.  But after you asked, I checked the source... 
:-)

sshd.c in privsep_preauth_child does a setgid() from the sshd's 
primary group (in passwd) when setting up the chroot jail.  The 
manual instructions make sure that the uid:gid is sshd:sshd.  
So I guess "'cause Theo said so" works. :-)

I'm curious though, on your debian systems, what is the gid for the 
sshd user?  The sshd.c source seems to indicate that sshd will fail 
if the group doesn't exist.






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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Michael D. Schleif


Jacques Nilo wrote:
> 
[ snip ]

> > At this point, a default compile of OpenSSH will use privilege separation
> > with the sshd user.  For new LEAF installations/releases, do we want to
> > deviate from the (new) OpenSSH standard, or accomodate it and move on?
> >
> I have a clear position on this: we should stick to the new default openssh
> config which implies privilege separation an therefore the creation of a sshd
> user and group (Debian does this, Mandrake as well)
> I will update Bering accordingly for the final release and update my openssh
> package suite accordingly.

I'm curious about /etc/group modification?

I've upgraded two (2) potato's and two (2) woody's.  Yes, there is a new
user in passwd/shadow; but, I do not have any new group for sshd.

Yes, I have seen the instructions for installing manually; but, I cannot
find a reason for the special group.

What do you think?

-- 

Best Regards,

mds
mds resource
888.250.3987

Dare to fix things before they break . . .

Our capacity for understanding is inversely proportional to how much we
think we know.  The more I know, the more I know I don't know . . .


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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Jacques Nilo

Le Mardi 2 Juillet 2002 18:20, Nathan Angelacos a écrit :
> On 1 Jul 2002 at 22:38, Greg Morgan wrote:
> >I believe you need to correct your web site. It says that you changed
> >the location of ssh_config in the packages.  I believe there are two
> >configuration files with one character different, a d.
> >ssh.lrp contains /etc/ssh/ssh_config.
> >sshd.lrp contains /etc/ssh/sshd_config.
>
> Thanks for your comments, Greg.
> Yes, there are two configuration files.  Jacques' packaging has:
>
> sshd.lrp containing
>   /etc/ssh/ssh_config
>   /etc/ssh/sshd_config
>
> ssh.lrp does not contain any /etc/ssh/*_config files
>
> These packages move only the /etc/ssh/ssh_config to ssh.lrp, and leave
> /etc/ssh/sshd_config in sshd.lrp
>
> My thinking was the config file should go with the program. I'm willing to
> have my thinking corrected, though. (Or is it just that the web page can
> have a better explanation?)
>
There was an explanation at the time I created the packages but honnestly I 
just cannot remember it :-)

> Brief answer:
> Yes, privilege separation is extra protection (against future attacks).
> No, its not necessary to go through creating a new user if you disable
> privilege separation in sshd_config.
>

> To answer your question "is it necessary to go through this?" for deployed
> LEAF boxes, I'd probably be inclined to install the 3.4 OpenSSH, disable
> privilege separation in sshd_config, and go on.  That should be a simple
> upgrade.
>
> The question (for me) is what about new LEAF installations and what about
> the future?  One thing I really like about Bering is that Jacques is
> trying to stay close to "standard."
>
> The options that I see for ssh*.lrp are:
>
> - compile as default, create sshd user and group
> - compile with priviledge separation, but use "nobody" for chroot jail
> - compile without priviledge separation enabled
>
>
> At this point, a default compile of OpenSSH will use privilege separation
> with the sshd user.  For new LEAF installations/releases, do we want to
> deviate from the (new) OpenSSH standard, or accomodate it and move on?
>
I have a clear position on this: we should stick to the new default openssh 
config which implies privilege separation an therefore the creation of a sshd 
user and group (Debian does this, Mandrake as well)
I will update Bering accordingly for the final release and update my openssh 
package suite accordingly.

Jacques


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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

> At this point, a default compile of OpenSSH will use privilege
separation
> with the sshd user.  For new LEAF installations/releases, do we want
to
> deviate from the (new) OpenSSH standard, or accomodate it and move on?
>
> Either answer is fine with me, as long as there is some sort of
informed
> consensus.

I vote for running with privilege sepration, and doing whatever is
required for existing systems (ie adding an ssh user, and maybe
including a script to do this for typical LEAF users who don't want to
do it manually).  The ssh user should be added to new distributions.

Charles Steinkuehler
http://lrp.steinkuehler.net
http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror)



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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-02 Thread Nathan Angelacos

On 1 Jul 2002 at 22:38, Greg Morgan wrote:

>I believe you need to correct your web site. It says that you changed 
>the location of ssh_config in the packages.  I believe there are two 
>configuration files with one character different, a d.  
>ssh.lrp contains /etc/ssh/ssh_config.  
>sshd.lrp contains /etc/ssh/sshd_config.  


Thanks for your comments, Greg.
Yes, there are two configuration files.  Jacques' packaging has:

sshd.lrp containing 
/etc/ssh/ssh_config 
/etc/ssh/sshd_config

ssh.lrp does not contain any /etc/ssh/*_config files

These packages move only the /etc/ssh/ssh_config to ssh.lrp, and leave 
/etc/ssh/sshd_config in sshd.lrp  

My thinking was the config file should go with the program. I'm willing to 
have my thinking corrected, though. (Or is it just that the web page can 
have a better explanation?)  

>I was reading http://www.openssh.com/txt/preauth.adv under "1. Versions
>affected:
>...
>OpenSSH 3.4 and later are not affected."
>
>
>If the package you compiled fixes this problem and numerous others,
>then  is the idea here just to add additional protection by disabling
>privileges escalation?  Security safeguard on another safeguard may be a
>good thing. But if privilege separation is not required in 3.4, is it
>necessary to go through this?
>
>I am just trying to sort the issues out here.  Any thoughts.

Well, that's two of us trying to sort out the issues. :-) 

Brief answer: 
Yes, privilege separation is extra protection (against future attacks).  
No, its not necessary to go through creating a new user if you disable 
privilege separation in sshd_config.  

Long answer:  According to 

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=102495293705094&w2 

Privilege separation takes ~24500 lines of code and puts it in a chroot 
jail, leaving only ~2500 lines of code running as root. I believe the 
thinking here is that privilege separation doesn't fix this problem 
specifically; it makes it less likely for there to be privilege escalation 
in the future. Privilege separation was evidently available in earlier 
versions of openSSH, the difference is that it is now the default.  

To answer your question "is it necessary to go through this?" for deployed 
LEAF boxes, I'd probably be inclined to install the 3.4 OpenSSH, disable 
privilege separation in sshd_config, and go on.  That should be a simple 
upgrade.  

The question (for me) is what about new LEAF installations and what about 
the future?  One thing I really like about Bering is that Jacques is 
trying to stay close to "standard."  

The options that I see for ssh*.lrp are:

- compile as default, create sshd user and group 
- compile with priviledge separation, but use "nobody" for chroot jail 
- compile without priviledge separation enabled 


At this point, a default compile of OpenSSH will use privilege separation 
with the sshd user.  For new LEAF installations/releases, do we want to 
deviate from the (new) OpenSSH standard, or accomodate it and move on?   

Either answer is fine with me, as long as there is some sort of informed
consensus.

>Redhat says they are not vulnerable.
>I did the did this in sshd_config file
>and was denied service after I applied the Redhat patch.

Funny.  One of our sites changed his firewall rules to completely block 
port 22 traffic.  He wasn't vulnerable either. :-)  

Thanks again!

Nathan
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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-07-01 Thread Greg Morgan

"Nathan Angelacos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've compiled new openSSH 3.4p1 lrps based on J. Nilo's packages.
> Since they are larger than the patch manager limit,
> they are available for download at http://www.nothome.org:8000/


I believe you need to correct your web site. It says that you changed
the location of ssh_config in the packages.  I believe there are two
configuration files with one character different, a d.  
ssh.lrp contains /etc/ssh/ssh_config.  
sshd.lrp contains /etc/ssh/sshd_config.


> I'll leave the page up until next Friday (5 Jul 2002.)
> 
> The md5 sums for the packages are:
> 
> 92395eae01a299a4c5412513482c90b0  sftp.lrp
> 0c9e5948681f5e20ef632e380d4928d1  sshd.lrp
> 0c5124438f4b9a0faca1d37b9f7b8846  sshkey.lrp
> 2087bea66f66ac5f2922551e26723b01  ssh.lrp
> 
> Compilation notes are in sshd.lrp, in /var/lib/lrpkg/sshd.notes
> 
> I would still be interested in knowing whether sshd should be a standard
> LEAF user, or if you all think not using priv separation is ok, or if a
> standard user (like nobody) should be used.
> 

I was reading http://www.openssh.com/txt/preauth.adv under "1. Versions
affected:
...
OpenSSH 3.4 and later are not affected."

They say this is the fourh revision to the document.

If the package you compiled fixes this problem and numerous others,
then  is the idea here just to add additional protection by disabling
privileges escalation?  Security safeguard on another safeguard may be a
good thing. But if privilege separation is not required in 3.4, is it
necessary to go through this?

I am just trying to sort the issues out here.  Any thoughts.

Redhat says they are not vulnerable.
http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2002-127.html

I did the did this in sshd_config file

ChallengeResponseAuthentication no

and was denied service after I applied the Redhat patch.  Yes and it was
a remote server too.  snicker.  The server has logins disabled and
required ssh key access.

Greg Morgan


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RE: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-27 Thread Nathan Angelacos

I've compiled new openSSH 3.4p1 lrps based on J. Nilo's packages.
Since they are larger than the patch manager limit,
they are available for download at http://www.nothome.org:8000/
I'll leave the page up until next Friday (5 Jul 2002.)

The md5 sums for the packages are:

92395eae01a299a4c5412513482c90b0  sftp.lrp
0c9e5948681f5e20ef632e380d4928d1  sshd.lrp
0c5124438f4b9a0faca1d37b9f7b8846  sshkey.lrp
2087bea66f66ac5f2922551e26723b01  ssh.lrp

Compilation notes are in sshd.lrp, in /var/lib/lrpkg/sshd.notes


I would still be interested in knowing whether sshd should be a standard
LEAF user, or if you all think not using priv separation is ok, or if a
standard user (like nobody) should be used.

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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-26 Thread Mike Noyes

On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 17:59, Nathan Angelacos wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 08:08, Mike Noyes wrote:
>   >The vulnerability details are now public.
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.  Unfortunately I only subscribe to the 
> digest, so I got your notice after my post.   
> 
> Needless to say, I'll be putting together a brand-new *3.4* openSSH lrp 
> tomorrow, if anyone is interested.

Nathan,
Please consider contributing your new package to us in the SourceForge
patch manager. Thanks.

LEAF Contributions
http://leaf-project.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=16&page_id=22

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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-26 Thread Nathan Angelacos


>On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 08:08, Mike Noyes wrote:
>The vulnerability details are now public.

Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.  Unfortunately I only subscribe to the 
digest, so I got your notice after my post.   

Needless to say, I'll be putting together a brand-new *3.4* openSSH lrp 
tomorrow, if anyone is interested. 

Anyway, thanks again, Mike.  I really appreciate your efforts.




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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-26 Thread Mike Noyes

On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 08:08, Mike Noyes wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 07:05, David Douthitt wrote:
> > Sounds like the bug isn't "fixed" but a work-around exists...
> 
> David,
> You're correct. There are a list of recent security advisories on this
> at:
> http://www.linuxsecurity.com/advisories/index.html
> 
> NetSecurity has an in-depth article on this vulnerability.
> http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=138

Everyone,
The vulnerability details are now public.
http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/1/278818/2002-06-23/2002-06-29/0

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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-26 Thread Mike Noyes

On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 07:05, David Douthitt wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 03:14:39PM -0700, Mike Noyes wrote:
> 
> > There is a problem with OpenSSH.
> > 
> > [Fwd: [SECURITY] [DSA-134-1] OpenSSH remote vulnerability]
> > Theo de Raadt announced that the OpenBSD team is working with ISS
> > on a remote exploit for OpenSSH (a free implementation of the
> > Secure SHell protocol). They are refusing to provide any details on
> > the vulnerability but instead are advising everyone to upgrade to
> > the latest release, version 3.3.
> 
> Sounds like the bug isn't "fixed" but a work-around exists...

David,
You're correct. There are a list of recent security advisories on this
at:
http://www.linuxsecurity.com/advisories/index.html

NetSecurity has an in-depth article on this vulnerability.
http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=138

-- 
Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
http://leaf-project.org/



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Re: [Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-26 Thread David Douthitt

On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 03:14:39PM -0700, Mike Noyes wrote:

> There is a problem with OpenSSH.
> 
> [Fwd: [SECURITY] [DSA-134-1] OpenSSH remote vulnerability]
> Theo de Raadt announced that the OpenBSD team is working with ISS
> on a remote exploit for OpenSSH (a free implementation of the
> Secure SHell protocol). They are refusing to provide any details on
> the vulnerability but instead are advising everyone to upgrade to
> the latest release, version 3.3.

Sounds like the bug isn't "fixed" but a work-around exists...

Here is how the Mandrake Security Release reads:

Mandrake Linux Security Update Advisory


Package name:   openssh
Advisory ID:MDKSA-2002:040
Date:   June 24th, 2002
Affected versions:  7.1, 7.2, 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, Corporate Server 1.0.1,
Single Network Firewall 7.2


Problem Description:

 Details of an upcoming OpenSSH vulnerability will be published early
 next week.  According to the OpenSSH team, this remote vulnerability
 cannot be exploited when sshd is running with privilege separation.
 The priv separation code is significantly improved in version 3.3 of
 OpenSSH which was released on June 21st.  Unfortunately, there are some
 known problems with this release; compression does not work on all
 operating systems and the PAM support has not been completed.

 The OpenSSH team encourages everyone to upgrade to version 3.3
 immediately and enable privilege separation.  This can be enabled by
 placing in your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file the following:
   
   UsePrivilegeSeparation yes
 
 The vulnerability that will be disclosed next week is not fixed in
 version 3.3 of OpenSSH, however with priv separation enabled, you will
 not be vulnerable to it.  This is because privilege separation uses a
 seperate non-privileged process to handle most of the work, meaning
 that any vulnerability in this part of OpenSSH will never lead to a
 root compromise.  Only access as the non-privileged user restricted in
 chroot would be available.
 
 MandrakeSoft encourages all of our users to upgrade to the updated 
 packages immediately.  This update creates a new user and group on the
 system named sshd that is used to run the non-privileged processes.



References:

 http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=102495293705094&w=2





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[Leaf-devel] OpenSSH security

2002-06-24 Thread Mike Noyes

Everyone,
There is a problem with OpenSSH.

[Fwd: [SECURITY] [DSA-134-1] OpenSSH remote vulnerability]
Theo de Raadt announced that the OpenBSD team is working with ISS
on a remote exploit for OpenSSH (a free implementation of the
Secure SHell protocol). They are refusing to provide any details on
the vulnerability but instead are advising everyone to upgrade to
the latest release, version 3.3.

-- 
Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
http://leaf-project.org/



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