Re: [LU] Tweet by Leeds United on Twitter

[Richard Naef]

#LUFC are delighted to confirm that @Ronaldo_Vieira8 has signed a new contract 
to remain at Elland Road

>Good news. 

Yes it is unless the second part of the tweet is 

..until some premier moneybags comes along and turns the lad's head.


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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Matt Anderson]

Local and others can be a lot lower. Key is that more people don't vote at all 
than the winning party gets 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 16:33, Nicholas Armit  wrote:
> 
> I thought general election turnouts in the UK were pretty high (60-70%)?
> 
> 
> From: Matt Anderson 
> To: Richard Naef  
> Cc: Leeds List 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> 
> Agreed. Also leads to turnouts of 30-40% or less because no one can be 
> bothered  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 24 May 2017, at 15:43, Richard Naef  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as 
> > the involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your 
> > existence. Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for 
> > it. In the UK the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth 
> > nothing. UKIP, greens, lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and 
> > had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% of vote and pretty much complete control.
> > 
> > Sent from my Mobile
> > 
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
> > From: Michael Benjamin 
> > To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef 
> > CC: Leeds List 
> > 
> > Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
> > proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 
> > 10-15% penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the 
> > balance of power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to 
> > represent the middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get 
> > uni-issue agitators to their own minority and don't give a toss about 
> > anyone else. In a two tier system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service 
> > to some proportionality. 
> > In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP 
> > you have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate. 
> > 
> > Michael 
> > 
> > 
> > Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
> > Community Psychiatrist.
> > 
> > SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> > PHONE: +972-505-317772
> > BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> > AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
> > myRay: Online CBT
> > 
> > |-Original Message-
> > |From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> > |Anderson
> > |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
> > |To: Richard Naef 
> > |Cc: Leeds List 
> > |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> > |
> > |Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
> > |
> > |As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying 
> > to do. But
> > |don't have any voice
> > |
> > |His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
> > |
> > |Sent from my iPhone
> > |
> > |> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
> > |wrote:
> > |>
> > |> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from 
> > that,
> > |you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by 
> > democratically
> > |elected politicians.
> > |>
> > |> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.  
> > That's
> > |how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our 
> > ridiculous
> > |voting system)
> > |>
> > |> ttfn
> > |>
> > |> Richard
> > |>
> > |> -Original Message-
> > |> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
> > |> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> > |> To: Richard Naef 
> > |> Cc: Leeds List 
> > |> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> > |>
> > |> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> > |consequences."
> > |>
> > |> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! 
> > Political self
> > |interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not 
> > in our
> > |name
> > |>
> > |> Sent from my iPhone
> > |>
> > |>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  > |computers.co.uk> wrote:
> > |>>
> > |>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> > |consequences.
> > |>
> > |
> > |___
> > |Leedslist mailing list
> > |Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
> > |To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> > |
> > |
> > |MARCHING ON TOGETHER
> ___
> Leedslist mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> 
> 
> MARCHING ON TOGETHER
> 
> 
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Richard Naef]

2015 66% turnout, Tories got 36.9% of votes 51% of seats. 100% of Government.  
Apart from the 2010 coalition I don’t think there has been a govt with the 
majority of votes for a couple of generations.

Local and European elections often less than 30%

ttfn

Richard

From: Nicholas Armit [mailto:arm...@yahoo.com]
Sent: 24 May 2017 16:33
To: Matt Anderson ; Richard Naef 

Cc: Leeds List 
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

I thought general election turnouts in the UK were pretty high (60-70%)?


From: Matt Anderson mailto:m...@leeds-united.net>>
To: Richard Naef 
mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
Cc: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

Agreed. Also leads to turnouts of 30-40% or less because no one can be bothered

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 15:43, Richard Naef 
> mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>> 
> wrote:
>
> That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as 
> the involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
> Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
> the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
> lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
> of vote and pretty much complete control.
>
> Sent from my Mobile
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
> From: Michael Benjamin
> To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef
> CC: Leeds List
>
> Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
> proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 
> 10-15% penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the 
> balance of power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to 
> represent the middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get 
> uni-issue agitators to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone 
> else. In a two tier system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some 
> proportionality.
> In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP 
> you have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Dr  Michael Benjamin,
> Community Psychiatrist.
>
> SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> PHONE: +972-505-317772
> BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
> myRay: Online CBT
>
> |-Original Message-
> |From: Leedslist 
> [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
> Behalf Of Matt
> |Anderson
> |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
> |To: Richard Naef 
> mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
> |Cc: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
> |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
> |
> |As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying 
> to do. But
> |don't have any voice
> |
> |His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
> |
> |Sent from my iPhone
> |
> |> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
> mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
> |wrote:
> |>
> |> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from 
> that,
> |you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
> |elected politicians.
> |>
> |> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.  
> That's
> |how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
> |voting system)
> |>
> |> ttfn
> |>
> |> Richard
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: Matt Anderson 
> [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
> |> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> |> To: Richard Naef 
> mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
> |> Cc: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
> |> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |>
> |> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences."
> |>
> |> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
> self
> |interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in 
> our
> |name
> |>
> |> Sent from my iPhone
> |>
> |>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef 
> mailto:richard@triumph->
> |computers.co.uk> wrote:
> |>>
> |>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences.
> |>
> |
> |___
> |Leedslist mailing list
> |Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
> |To unsubscribe, email 
> leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> |
> |
> |MARCHING ON TOGETHER
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___

Re: [LU] Tweet by Leeds United on Twitter

[{broken-address} Nicholas Armit]

Good news. 

  From: Matt Anderson 
 To: Leeds List  
 Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:33 AM
 Subject: [LU] Tweet by Leeds United on Twitter
   
    Leeds United (@LUFC)
24/05/2017, 16:32
✍️ #LUFC are delighted to confirm that @Ronaldo_Vieira8 has signed a new 
contract to remain at Elland Road bit.ly/LUFCronaldoext… 
pic.twitter.com/UcNZqH97EX

Download the Twitter app


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[{broken-address} Nicholas Armit]

I thought general election turnouts in the UK were pretty high (60-70%)?

  From: Matt Anderson 
 To: Richard Naef  
Cc: Leeds List 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
   
Agreed. Also leads to turnouts of 30-40% or less because no one can be bothered 
 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 15:43, Richard Naef  
> wrote:
> 
> That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as 
> the involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
> Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
> the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
> lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
> of vote and pretty much complete control.
> 
> Sent from my Mobile
> 
>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
> From: Michael Benjamin 
> To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef 
> CC: Leeds List 
> 
> Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
> proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 
> 10-15% penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the 
> balance of power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to 
> represent the middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get 
> uni-issue agitators to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone 
> else. In a two tier system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some 
> proportionality. 
> In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP 
> you have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate. 
> 
> Michael 
> 
> 
> Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
> Community Psychiatrist.
> 
> SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> PHONE: +972-505-317772
> BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
> myRay: Online CBT
> 
> |-Original Message-
> |From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> |Anderson
> |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
> |To: Richard Naef 
> |Cc: Leeds List 
> |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
> |
> |As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying 
> to do. But
> |don't have any voice
> |
> |His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
> |
> |Sent from my iPhone
> |
> |> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
> |wrote:
> |>
> |> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from 
> that,
> |you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
> |elected politicians.
> |>
> |> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.  
> That's
> |how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
> |voting system)
> |>
> |> ttfn
> |>
> |> Richard
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
> |> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> |> To: Richard Naef 
> |> Cc: Leeds List 
> |> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |>
> |> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences."
> |>
> |> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
> self
> |interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in 
> our
> |name
> |>
> |> Sent from my iPhone
> |>
> |>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  |computers.co.uk> wrote:
> |>>
> |>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences.
> |>
> |
> |___
> |Leedslist mailing list
> |Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
> |To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> |
> |
> |MARCHING ON TOGETHER
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[LU] Tweet by Leeds United on Twitter

[Matt Anderson]

Leeds United (@LUFC)
24/05/2017, 16:32
✍️ #LUFC are delighted to confirm that @Ronaldo_Vieira8 has signed a new 
contract to remain at Elland Road bit.ly/LUFCronaldoext… 
pic.twitter.com/UcNZqH97EX

Download the Twitter app


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Matt Anderson]

Agreed. Also leads to turnouts of 30-40% or less because no one can be bothered 
 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 15:43, Richard Naef  
> wrote:
> 
> That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as 
> the involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
> Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
> the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
> lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
> of vote and pretty much complete control.
> 
> Sent from my Mobile
> 
>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
> From: Michael Benjamin 
> To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef 
> CC: Leeds List 
> 
> Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
> proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 
> 10-15% penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the 
> balance of power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to 
> represent the middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get 
> uni-issue agitators to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone 
> else. In a two tier system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some 
> proportionality. 
> In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP 
> you have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate. 
> 
> Michael 
> 
> 
> Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
> Community Psychiatrist.
> 
> SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> PHONE: +972-505-317772
> BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
> myRay: Online CBT
> 
> |-Original Message-
> |From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> |Anderson
> |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
> |To: Richard Naef 
> |Cc: Leeds List 
> |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
> |
> |As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying 
> to do. But
> |don't have any voice
> |
> |His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
> |
> |Sent from my iPhone
> |
> |> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
> |wrote:
> |>
> |> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from 
> that,
> |you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
> |elected politicians.
> |>
> |> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   
> That's
> |how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
> |voting system)
> |>
> |> ttfn
> |>
> |> Richard
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
> |> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> |> To: Richard Naef 
> |> Cc: Leeds List 
> |> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |>
> |> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences."
> |>
> |> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
> self
> |interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in 
> our
> |name
> |>
> |> Sent from my iPhone
> |>
> |>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  |computers.co.uk> wrote:
> |>>
> |>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> |consequences.
> |>
> |
> |___
> |Leedslist mailing list
> |Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
> |To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> |
> |
> |MARCHING ON TOGETHER
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Jeremy Adams]

Yeah Rob, please don't start another on list fight with the Dr. If you want to 
bash each other over the head, please do it off list!


Ta


Jeremy



From: Leedslist  on behalf of Michael Benjamin 

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:44:46 AM
To: Rob Heath
Cc: Leeds List
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

Don’t even start.
Stay off line.
Have you no self-control?



Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel 
||Quora ||Jerusalem 
Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

From: Rob Heath [mailto:rhe...@hkis.edu.hk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 3:36 PM
To: Michael Benjamin 
Cc: nat...@sky.com; Leeds List 
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

We do not want to be lectured about "terrorism" and "security" from an Israeli, 
thank you very much.

It is so easy to light some candles, give some blood and mutter about evil 
deranged muslims.doesn't anybody ever ask themselves what islamic 
terrorism is REALLY about?

It all stems from something that was written in a letter on 2 November 1917 
(no, I'm not that fanaticalI just looked it up!) The Balfour 
Declarationthat, compounded by the unspeakable evil of the 
nazis, has led us to where we are today.

And btw..what an outrageous piece of cynicism for May to now 
declare a nationwide state of emergency. Blatantly using those dead kids to 
further her message about the need for "Strong & Stable" leadership.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Michael Benjamin 
mailto:m...@myray.com>> wrote:
It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and guards. It 
means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on my El Al flights 
I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make things worse. Sure, it's 
a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll kill a lot more than e 
terrorist.
How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die for 
their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no longer 
is effective.
Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is unpleasant.
Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the 
problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective 
punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling.
Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths.
Michael

Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist 
[mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of
|nat...@sky.com
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
|To: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get upset -
|anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to the
|Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
usually
|do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is mainly
|staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and every 
seat
|was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
|afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it - 
with
|3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun - they
|were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and hope 
this
|does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the town
|centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on Saturday 
for a
|few beers.
|I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could
|not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that
|would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and he 
is
|worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
|whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
safety
|and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
decisions
|The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) nutters 
who
|did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during and
|afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free taxis,
|giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to the
|hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the two
|homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
|We will have the flag at half ma

Re: [LU] : Manchester

[{broken-address} Nicholas Armit]

Always thought PR with the 5% threshold as in Germany was a good idea.
Nick

  From: Richard Naef 
 To: Michael Benjamin ; Matt Anderson  
Cc: Leeds List 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:43 AM
 Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
   
That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as the 
involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
of vote and pretty much complete control.

Sent from my Mobile

 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
From: Michael Benjamin
To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef
CC: Leeds List

Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 10-15% 
penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the balance of 
power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to represent the 
middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get uni-issue agitators 
to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone else. In a two tier 
system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some proportionality.
In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP you 
have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate.

Michael


Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
|Anderson
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
|To: Richard Naef 
|Cc: Leeds List 
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
|
|As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying to 
do. But
|don't have any voice
|
|His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
|
|Sent from my iPhone
|
|> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
|wrote:
|>
|> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that,
|you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
|elected politicians.
|>
|> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.  That's
|how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
|voting system)
|>
|> ttfn
|>
|> Richard
|>
|> -Original Message-
|> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
|> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
|> To: Richard Naef 
|> Cc: Leeds List 
|> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|>
|> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences."
|>
|> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
self
|interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our
|name
|>
|> Sent from my iPhone
|>
|>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  wrote:
|>>
|>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences.
|>
|
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Michael Benjamin]

Maybe so, Richard.
But I've experienced only what I've experienced. And my experience is awful. 
Mind you, first past the post gave us Trump.
Michael

Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel 
||Quora ||Jerusalem 
Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

From: Richard Naef [mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:43 PM
To: Michael Benjamin ; Matt Anderson 
Cc: Leeds List 
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as the 
involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
of vote and pretty much complete control.

Sent from my Mobile

 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
From: Michael Benjamin
To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef
CC: Leeds List
Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 10-15% 
penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the balance of 
power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to represent the 
middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get uni-issue agitators 
to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone else. In a two tier 
system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some proportionality.
In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP you 
have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate.

Michael


Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
|Anderson
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
|To: Richard Naef 
mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
|Cc: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
|
|As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying to 
do. But
|don't have any voice
|
|His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
|
|Sent from my iPhone
|
|> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
|wrote:
|>
|> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that,
|you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
|elected politicians.
|>
|> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   That's
|how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
|voting system)
|>
|> ttfn
|>
|> Richard
|>
|> -Original Message-
|> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
|> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
|> To: Richard Naef 
mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>>
|> Cc: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
|> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|>
|> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences."
|>
|> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
self
|interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our
|name
|>
|> Sent from my iPhone
|>
|>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef mailto:richard@triumph-%0b|computers.co.uk>> wrote:
|>>
|>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences.
|>
|
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|
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Michael Benjamin]

Don’t even start.
Stay off line.
Have you no self-control?



Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel 
||Quora ||Jerusalem 
Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

From: Rob Heath [mailto:rhe...@hkis.edu.hk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 3:36 PM
To: Michael Benjamin 
Cc: nat...@sky.com; Leeds List 
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

We do not want to be lectured about "terrorism" and "security" from an Israeli, 
thank you very much.

It is so easy to light some candles, give some blood and mutter about evil 
deranged muslims.doesn't anybody ever ask themselves what islamic 
terrorism is REALLY about?

It all stems from something that was written in a letter on 2 November 1917 
(no, I'm not that fanaticalI just looked it up!) The Balfour 
Declarationthat, compounded by the unspeakable evil of the 
nazis, has led us to where we are today.

And btw..what an outrageous piece of cynicism for May to now 
declare a nationwide state of emergency. Blatantly using those dead kids to 
further her message about the need for "Strong & Stable" leadership.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Michael Benjamin 
mailto:m...@myray.com>> wrote:
It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and guards. It 
means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on my El Al flights 
I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make things worse. Sure, it's 
a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll kill a lot more than e 
terrorist.
How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die for 
their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no longer 
is effective.
Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is unpleasant.
Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the 
problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective 
punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling.
Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths.
Michael

Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist 
[mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of
|nat...@sky.com
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
|To: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get upset -
|anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to the
|Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
usually
|do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is mainly
|staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and every 
seat
|was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
|afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it - 
with
|3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun - they
|were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and hope 
this
|does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the town
|centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on Saturday 
for a
|few beers.
|I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could
|not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that
|would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and he 
is
|worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
|whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
safety
|and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
decisions
|The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) nutters 
who
|did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during and
|afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free taxis,
|giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to the
|hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the two
|homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
|We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect I am not
|however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the Manchester
|tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to the victims 
fund
|dave
|
|
|  From: Graham Thirkill 
mailto:graham.thirki...@btinternet.com>>
| To: leedslist@gn.apc.org

Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Richard Naef]

That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as the 
involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your existence. 
Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for it. In the UK 
the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth nothing. UKIP, greens, 
lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% 
of vote and pretty much complete control.

Sent from my Mobile

 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
From: Michael Benjamin
To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef
CC: Leeds List

Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 10-15% 
penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the balance of 
power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to represent the 
middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get uni-issue agitators 
to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone else. In a two tier 
system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some proportionality.
In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP you 
have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate.

Michael


Dr  Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
|Anderson
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
|To: Richard Naef 
|Cc: Leeds List 
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
|
|As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying to 
do. But
|don't have any voice
|
|His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
|
|Sent from my iPhone
|
|> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
|wrote:
|>
|> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that,
|you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
|elected politicians.
|>
|> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   That's
|how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
|voting system)
|>
|> ttfn
|>
|> Richard
|>
|> -Original Message-
|> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
|> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
|> To: Richard Naef 
|> Cc: Leeds List 
|> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|>
|> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences."
|>
|> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
self
|interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our
|name
|>
|> Sent from my iPhone
|>
|>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  wrote:
|>>
|>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences.
|>
|
|___
|Leedslist mailing list
|Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
|To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
|
|
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Michael Benjamin]

Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 10-15% 
penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the balance of 
power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to represent the 
middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get uni-issue agitators 
to their own minority and don't give a toss about anyone else. In a two tier 
system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service to some proportionality. 
In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP you 
have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate. 

Michael 


Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Matt
|Anderson
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
|To: Richard Naef 
|Cc: Leeds List 
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
|
|As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying to 
do. But
|don't have any voice
|
|His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
|
|Sent from my iPhone
|
|> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef 
|wrote:
|>
|> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that,
|you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically
|elected politicians.
|>
|> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   That's
|how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous
|voting system)
|>
|> ttfn
|>
|> Richard
|>
|> -Original Message-
|> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net]
|> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
|> To: Richard Naef 
|> Cc: Leeds List 
|> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|>
|> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences."
|>
|> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
self
|interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our
|name
|>
|> Sent from my iPhone
|>
|>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  wrote:
|>>
|>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
|consequences.
|>
|
|___
|Leedslist mailing list
|Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
|To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
|
|
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Re: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

[Matt Anderson]

My colleague is a boro fan. He said it was awful to watch despite eventual 
promotion. 

Karanka is like mourinho. Thrives on division and is stubborn. How can you fall 
out with one of the best chairmen in football who has backed him to best of his 
ability 100%? 

Got a lot of time for boro. The night before their play off final in Trafalgar 
Square was the best football related time I've had for years. 8000 people 
having a party. Decent folk most of whom hate us though

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 14:41, {broken-address} Nicholas Armit 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why? He actually did get promotion with Boro right? 
> I too would like Monk to sign up but his demands need to be in reason too. 
> Having a Plan B is sensible and I do not think Karanka is a bad option.
> Nick
> 
>  From: Jeremy Adams 
> To: "leedslist@gn.apc.org"  
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:36 AM
> Subject: [LU] Plan b? Please no!
> 
> I realize there are more important things in the world right now than the 
> next Leeds manager but according to teamtalk Karanka is the plan B option if 
> we cant agree terms with Garry Monk.
> 
> 
> Please let this not be the case!
> 
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> 
> 
> MARCHING ON TOGETHER
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> 
> 
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Matt Anderson]

Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR. 

As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying to 
do. But don't have any voice 

His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that, 
> you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically 
> elected politicians.
> 
> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   That's 
> how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous 
> voting system) 
> 
> ttfn
> 
> Richard
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net] 
> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> To: Richard Naef 
> Cc: Leeds List 
> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> 
> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
> consequences."
> 
> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political 
> self interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not 
> in our name
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
>> consequences.
> 

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Re: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

[{broken-address} Nicholas Armit]

Why? He actually did get promotion with Boro right? 
I too would like Monk to sign up but his demands need to be in reason too. 
Having a Plan B is sensible and I do not think Karanka is a bad option.
Nick

  From: Jeremy Adams 
 To: "leedslist@gn.apc.org"  
 Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:36 AM
 Subject: [LU] Plan b? Please no!
   
I realize there are more important things in the world right now than the next 
Leeds manager but according to teamtalk Karanka is the plan B option if we cant 
agree terms with Garry Monk.


Please let this not be the case!


Jeremy

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[LU] 15k Season tickets sold already.

[Richard Naef]

...high expectations for next season.

ttfn

Richard

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Re: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

[Jeremy Adams]

Because I think Karanka plays unattractive football and also because I believe 
Monk has started something here and if we give him another season he could 
create something. Getting Karanka means we start all over again and have 
another "transitional" season.



From: Nicholas Armit 
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:41:04 AM
To: Jeremy Adams; leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

Why? He actually did get promotion with Boro right?

I too would like Monk to sign up but his demands need to be in reason too. 
Having a Plan B is sensible and I do not think Karanka is a bad option.

Nick



From: Jeremy Adams 
To: "leedslist@gn.apc.org" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:36 AM
Subject: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

I realize there are more important things in the world right now than the next 
Leeds manager but according to teamtalk Karanka is the plan B option if we cant 
agree terms with Garry Monk.


Please let this not be the case!


Jeremy

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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Richard Naef]

I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from that, 
you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by democratically 
elected politicians.

Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.   That's 
how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our ridiculous 
voting system) 

ttfn

Richard

-Original Message-
From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net] 
Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
To: Richard Naef 
Cc: Leeds List 
Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester

"War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
consequences."

Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political self 
interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our 
name

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  
> wrote:
> 
> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
> consequences.

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Re: [LU] Plan b? Please no!

[Andy Clayton]

AR has exercised the one year extension to Monk's contract already
apparently.


On Wed, 24 May 2017 at 14:37, Jeremy Adams 
wrote:

> I realize there are more important things in the world right now than the
> next Leeds manager but according to teamtalk Karanka is the plan B option
> if we cant agree terms with Garry Monk.
>
>
> Please let this not be the case!
>
>
> Jeremy
>
> ___
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>
> MARCHING ON TOGETHER
>
-- 
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[LU] Plan b? Please no!

[Jeremy Adams]

I realize there are more important things in the world right now than the next 
Leeds manager but according to teamtalk Karanka is the plan B option if we cant 
agree terms with Garry Monk.


Please let this not be the case!


Jeremy

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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Matt Anderson]

"War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
consequences."

Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! Political self 
interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not in our 
name

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef  
> wrote:
> 
> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the 
> consequences.

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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Richard Naef]

>Blaming Islam is a little bit like blaming all men  for rape 

True, more apposite is don't blame Marx for the actions of Stalin or Mao. 

> but at the same time groups of people to self police and that needs to go on 
> more. Didsbury mosque goers must have had a clue about him.

Not really known yet if he had been identified by "Prevent" reported by his 
community, The guy only came back from Libya a few days, so was seemingly a 
mule for the real perpetrators.

We as a democratic society decided to go to war and I think part of the problem 
from our comfortable, long distance war, we've forgotten that War is hell, 
don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the consequences.
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Rob Heath]

We do not want to be lectured about "terrorism" and "security" from an
Israeli, thank you very much.

It is so easy to light some candles, give some blood and mutter about evil
deranged muslims.doesn't anybody ever ask themselves what
islamic terrorism is REALLY about?

It all stems from something that was written in a letter on 2 November 1917
(no, I'm not that fanaticalI just looked it up!) The Balfour
Declarationthat, compounded by the unspeakable evil of the
nazis, has led us to where we are today.

And btw..what an outrageous piece of cynicism for May to now
declare a nationwide state of emergency. Blatantly using those dead kids to
further her message about the need for "Strong & Stable" leadership.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Michael Benjamin  wrote:

> It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and
> guards. It means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on
> my El Al flights I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make
> things worse. Sure, it's a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll
> kill a lot more than e terrorist.
> How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die
> for their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no
> longer is effective.
> Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is
> unpleasant.
> Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the
> problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective
> punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling.
> Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths.
> Michael
>
> Dr  Michael Benjamin,
> Community Psychiatrist.
>
> SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> PHONE: +972-505-317772
> BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE;
> myRay: Online CBT
>
> |-Original Message-
> |From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of
> |nat...@sky.com
> |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
> |To: Leeds List 
> |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get
> upset -
> |anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went
> to the
> |Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they
> never usually
> |do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is
> mainly
> |staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and
> every seat
> |was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
> |afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it
> - with
> |3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun -
> they
> |were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and
> hope this
> |does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the
> town
> |centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on
> Saturday for a
> |few beers.
> |I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but
> could
> |not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe
> (that
> |would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died)
> and he is
> |worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
> |whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for
> their safety
> |and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult
> decisions
> |The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few)
> nutters who
> |did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things
> during and
> |afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free
> taxis,
> |giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to
> the
> |hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for
> the two
> |homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
> |We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect I
> am not
> |however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the Manchester
> |tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to the
> victims fund
> |dave
> |
> |
> |  From: Graham Thirkill 
> | To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
> | Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 19:32
> | Subject: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |Richard Naeff said: Quote
> |> Hope Dave and anyone else with connections to Manchester is OK -  can't
> all
> |sides just stop killing Children?
> |> ttfn Richard Quote”
> |
> |May I second Rich’s, post…Iv’e crie…...but not ashamed, I’m a father and
> grand-
> |father and uncle. It’s heartbreaking, thinking, any of these unfortunate,
> lovely
> |kids could have been one of my lovely kids…To Manchester people... I take
> my
> |hat off to you all, you have been amazing, the way you “ALL" have come
> out and
> |done your utmost, to help these m

Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Matt Anderson]

Agreed. I'm fed up of people standing shoulder to shoulder with Manchester, or 
candlelit vigils or lighting up the Eiffel tower. Means nothing. Isis don't 
care. Job done crusaders are dead. All the Facebook flags in the world won't 
help

I'm pretty sure this was the one that got though and dozens have been foiled 
though. 

Blaming Islam is a little bit like blaming all men  for rape but at the same 
time groups of people to self police and that needs to go on more. Didsbury 
mosque goers must have had a clue about him. 

We do need to knock the political correctness on the head, whether it be knife 
wielding gangs in London or religious extremism and get tougher 





Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 13:14, {broken-address} Richard Walker 
>  wrote:
> 
> agreed, business as usual is what got us into this mess. Burying our heads in 
> the sand and continuing as if nothing happened and the perspective this guy 
> was just a lone nutter will solve nothing. 
> All these people changing their facebook profile pics,  holding placards and 
> calling for tolerance are doing nothing to resolve the issue. I fear that 
> attacks like this will become the norm very soon.  
>  From: Michael Benjamin 
> To: "nat...@sky.com" ; Leeds List  
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 11:34
> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> 
> It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and guards. 
> It means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on my El Al 
> flights I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make things worse. 
> Sure, it's a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll kill a lot more 
> than e terrorist.
> How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die for 
> their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no longer 
> is effective.
> Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is 
> unpleasant. 
> Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the 
> problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective 
> punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling. 
> Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths. 
> Michael
> 
> Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
> Community Psychiatrist.
> 
> SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> PHONE: +972-505-317772
> BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
> myRay: Online CBT
> 
> |-Original Message-
> |From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of
> |nat...@sky.com
> |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
> |To: Leeds List 
> |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get 
> upset -
> |anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to 
> the
> |Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
> usually
> |do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is 
> mainly
> |staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and 
> every seat
> |was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
> |afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it - 
> with
> |3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun - they
> |were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and 
> hope this
> |does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the town
> |centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on Saturday 
> for a
> |few beers.
> |I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could
> |not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that
> |would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and 
> he is
> |worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
> |whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
> safety
> |and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
> decisions
> |The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) 
> nutters who
> |did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during 
> and
> |afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free 
> taxis,
> |giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to the
> |hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the 
> two
> |homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
> |We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect I am 
> not
> |however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the Manchester
> |tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to the 
> victims fund
> |dave
> |
> |
> |  From: Graham Thirkill 
> | To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
> | Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 19:32
> | Subject: [LU] : Manchester
> |
> |Richard Naeff s

Re: [LU] : Manchester

[{broken-address} Richard Walker]

agreed, business as usual is what got us into this mess. Burying our heads in 
the sand and continuing as if nothing happened and the perspective this guy was 
just a lone nutter will solve nothing. 
All these people changing their facebook profile pics,  holding placards and 
calling for tolerance are doing nothing to resolve the issue. I fear that 
attacks like this will become the norm very soon.  
  From: Michael Benjamin 
 To: "nat...@sky.com" ; Leeds List  
 Sent: Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 11:34
 Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
   
It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and guards. It 
means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on my El Al flights 
I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make things worse. Sure, it's 
a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll kill a lot more than e 
terrorist.
How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die for 
their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no longer 
is effective.
Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is 
unpleasant. 
Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the 
problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective 
punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling. 
Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths. 
Michael

Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of
|nat...@sky.com
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
|To: Leeds List 
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get upset -
|anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to the
|Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
usually
|do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is mainly
|staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and every 
seat
|was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
|afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it - 
with
|3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun - they
|were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and hope 
this
|does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the town
|centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on Saturday 
for a
|few beers.
|I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could
|not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that
|would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and he 
is
|worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
|whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
safety
|and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
decisions
|The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) nutters 
who
|did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during and
|afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free taxis,
|giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to the
|hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the two
|homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
|We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect I am not
|however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the Manchester
|tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to the victims 
fund
|dave
|
|
|      From: Graham Thirkill 
| To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
| Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 19:32
| Subject: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Richard Naeff said: Quote
|> Hope Dave and anyone else with connections to Manchester is OK -  can't all
|sides just stop killing Children?
|> ttfn Richard Quote”
|
|May I second Rich’s, post…Iv’e crie…...but not ashamed, I’m a father and grand-
|father and uncle. It’s heartbreaking, thinking, any of these unfortunate, 
lovely
|kids could have been one of my lovely kids…To Manchester people... I take my
|hat off to you all, you have been amazing, the way you “ALL" have come out and
|done your utmost, to help these magic people who were caught up in terror in
|you city……..with your courage, kindness, support and help…….
|Thanks from a Yorkshireman.
|
|Cheers and Beers
|Thirkers\08/
|___
|Leedslist mailing list
|Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
|To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
|
|
|MARCHING ON TOGETHER
|
|
|
|___
|Leedslist

Re: [LU] : Manchester

[Michael Benjamin]

It isn't business as usual. It never can be. It means vigilance and guards. It 
means profiling. It means dawn raids and searches. As I get on my El Al flights 
I am aghast at the armed presence. They can only make things worse. Sure, it's 
a feel good factor but if they open fire they'll kill a lot more than e 
terrorist.
How does it stop? By having guards who intercept the terrorist. A lot die for 
their efforts. But the 'kill rate' falls dramatically. So low it is no longer 
is effective.
Civil liberties are curtailed. You have no alternative. Profiling is 
unpleasant. 
Right now the UK is in a worse position than we were.  We can identify the 
problem areas and if need be close them down. It's cruel It is collective 
punishment. It works. The same goes for profiling. 
Sorry, it is not business as usual. If it is, expect a lot more deaths. 
Michael

Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
Community Psychiatrist.

SKYPE: BEDENOGA
PHONE: +972-505-317772
BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
myRay: Online CBT

|-Original Message-
|From: Leedslist [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of
|nat...@sky.com
|Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:10 PM
|To: Leeds List 
|Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
|
|I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get upset -
|anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to the
|Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
usually
|do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it is mainly
|staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd and every 
seat
|was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on the way out
|afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written on it - 
with
|3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand gun - they
|were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police and hope 
this
|does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, to the town
|centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on Saturday 
for a
|few beers.
|I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could
|not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that
|would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and he 
is
|worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or
|whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
safety
|and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
decisions
|The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) nutters 
who
|did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during and
|afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free taxis,
|giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to the
|hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the two
|homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
|We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect I am not
|however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the Manchester
|tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to the victims 
fund
|dave
|
|
|  From: Graham Thirkill 
| To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
| Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 19:32
| Subject: [LU] : Manchester
|
|Richard Naeff said: Quote
|> Hope Dave and anyone else with connections to Manchester is OK -  can't all
|sides just stop killing Children?
|> ttfn Richard Quote”
|
|May I second Rich’s, post…Iv’e crie…...but not ashamed, I’m a father and grand-
|father and uncle. It’s heartbreaking, thinking, any of these unfortunate, 
lovely
|kids could have been one of my lovely kids…To Manchester people... I take my
|hat off to you all, you have been amazing, the way you “ALL" have come out and
|done your utmost, to help these magic people who were caught up in terror in
|you city……..with your courage, kindness, support and help…….
|Thanks from a Yorkshireman.
|
|Cheers and Beers
|Thirkers\08/
|___
|Leedslist mailing list
|Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
|To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
|
|
|MARCHING ON TOGETHER
|
|
|
|___
|Leedslist mailing list
|Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
|To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
|
|
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Re: [LU] : Manchester

[nat...@sky.com]

I doubt anyone could see the picture of the 8 year old girl and not get upset - 
anyone normal that is !Odd feeling around the place at present - I went to the 
Lowry Theatre last night and it was business as usual- almost - they never 
usually do any sort bag checking but last night they did have 2 old dears (it 
is mainly staffed by volunteers) looking in handbags. It was a sell out crowd 
and every seat was full so no-one appeared to be 'scared off' - it was odd on 
the way out afterwards to see 2 police cars - one from Wales with Heddu written 
on it - with 3 coppers stood with them, 2 with machine guns and one with a hand 
gun - they were getting pizza from a local pizzeria. I hate to see armed police 
and hope this does not become the normI know friends who are going, as normal, 
to the town centre tonight to watch their game and I am off into Piccadilly on 
Saturday for a few beers.
I do know a lad with 2 young daughters who had tickets for the MEN but could 
not go and gave the tickets away, thankfully to people who stayed safe (that 
would not be a good thing to have on your conscience if they had died) and he 
is worried about taking them into town over the weekend for the marathon or 
whatever it is. He does not want the terrorists to 'win' but fears for their 
safety and thinks that they will be too worried to enjoy themselves - difficult 
decisions
The saving grace of it all is the fact that it is one (or maybe a few) nutters 
who did this atrocious act but the number of people who did great things during 
and afterwards is in the hundreds if not more - rescuing people, giving free 
taxis, giving so much blood they have stopped taking it , people taking food to 
the hospitals, and the various collections for the victims families and for the 
two homeless lads who helped are going through the roof.
We will have the flag at half mast tonight at cubs to show our respect
I am not however having a bee tattooed on myself at weekend despite the 
Manchester tattoo association saying they will do them for a £50 donation to 
the victims fund
dave


  From: Graham Thirkill 
 To: leedslist@gn.apc.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 19:32
 Subject: [LU] : Manchester
   
Richard Naeff said: Quote
> Hope Dave and anyone else with connections to Manchester is OK -  can't all 
> sides just stop killing Children?
> ttfn Richard Quote”

May I second Rich’s, post…Iv’e crie…...but not ashamed, I’m a father and 
grand-father and uncle. It’s heartbreaking, 
thinking, any of these unfortunate, lovely kids could have been one of my 
lovely kids…To Manchester people... I take 
my hat off to you all, you have been amazing, the way you “ALL" have come out 
and done your utmost, to help these 
magic people who were caught up in terror in you city……..with your courage, 
kindness, support and help…….
Thanks from a Yorkshireman.

Cheers and Beers
Thirkers\08/
___
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