Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Richard Naef]

>That is what Brighton did right? Took about three>
> years of continuing improvement?

Hughton joined midway 2014 season and they went up 2 season afterwards I know a 
lot of their fans and they were generally very supportive of Hughton even when 
things went a little array.   You can find examples to match any hypothesis 
from teams that have got promoted in the last few years.



On Saturday, February 2, 2019, 7:52:55 PM EST, Richard Naef 
mailto:rich...@triumph-computers.co.uk>> wrote:


100% Dave.  It's a fantastic season, it might end in disappointment, in which 
case we aren’t ready for promotion.  Heresy I know, but another season in the 
Championship building the team might not be a bad idea.



ttfn

Richard

-Original Message-
From: Leedslist 
mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org>> On Behalf 
Of nat...@sky.com
Sent: 02 February 2019 22:32
To: Leeds List mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
Subject: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

Just got home so have not seen anything on TV or read any reports so here are a 
few thoughts from watching it live A great atmosphere to start with but that 
soon died and apart from a brilliant whole ground Waccoe at two down the fans 
were poor today. The number who left as their 3rd went in was nothing short of 
disgraceful and the general mood around me was 'F off, good riddance, and dont 
come back' if you could not even bother staying to the end just because we had 
lost !
Game started Ok but a 'foul' (not convinced it was a foul but a tackle from 
behind is always dodgy) gave them a free kick on the edge of the box and a 
wicked deflection put them a goal up. After that they were a horrible team - 
plenty of time wasting and one blatant dive and one rolliing around holding his 
face incident should have led to two yellow cards Then the keeper was lucky not 
to see a red when he came out and clattered Roberts, plus we had a good shout 
for a penalty for a foul on Pontus.
We huffed and puffed a bit and looked decent enough but every 50/50 decision 
and loose ball and every bit of luck went their way and that culminated in a 
terrible mistake by Forshaw that enabled them to get 2 up A couple of changes 
at half time showed we were going for it, the ineffectual Harrison and the out 
of sorts (? not fully fit ) Hernandez being replace by Clarke and Douglas, We 
had a few chances to pull one back , a great cross along the six yard box was 
well defended, our one decent shot on target was well saved and a good free 
kick was headed wide by Ayling. They continued to pick up all the pieces and 
win 50/50s so perhaps it was due to good play rather than luck Then a quick 
break, another deflected shot and 3 0 game over - cue mass exodus - the players 
tonight and over the season so far deserved better Bamford came on , scored 
with a good back header but too little too late - albeit it led fans to 
(wrongly) sing we are top of the league -they too stupid to understand goal 
difference ?
So an average performance led to a very poor result - made a bit better by the 
fact that West Brom had lost at home to Boro earlier on . Our recent form is 
not great and we are in danger of messing it all up, despite some fans trying 
to lighten the mood at the bus stop etc by declaring we are joint top The fact 
that Bamford was on the bench and even better scored, is the only real bright 
spot from the game (Clarke did impress again as an impact sub) As I say, anyone 
who has seen the game on TV before or since may dispute a lot of my 'facts' but 
I am just saying it as I saw it Need to at least avoid defeat next week at Boro 
and then beat Swansea to stop this season going down the tubes Dan James would 
not have made a difference to the result Too soon to panic and whatever the 
next 16 games bring this has been a great season Dave(pissed up and a bit 
pissed off) ___
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Re: [LU] Norwich

[Ted]

> Wait, five hours before and four after?!
>
> Nick
>
> Well... 12 til 4.30 - then the pub was interrupted by a stupid football
match, then pub from 7.30ish to 9, train trip then pub from 10.15 to
midnight.

Needless to say, "I was very, very drunk."

;-)


>
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Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 That is what Brighton did right? Took about three years of continuing 
improvement?
Nick
On Saturday, February 2, 2019, 7:52:55 PM EST, Richard Naef 
 wrote:  
 
 100% Dave.  It's a fantastic season, it might end in disappointment, in which 
case we aren’t ready for promotion.  Heresy I know, but another season in the 
Championship building the team might not be a bad idea.  



ttfn

Richard

-Original Message-
From: Leedslist  On Behalf Of nat...@sky.com
Sent: 02 February 2019 22:32
To: Leeds List 
Subject: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

Just got home so have not seen anything on TV or read any reports so here are a 
few thoughts from watching it live A great atmosphere to start with but that 
soon died and apart from a brilliant whole ground Waccoe at two down the fans 
were poor today. The number who left as their 3rd went in was nothing short of 
disgraceful and the general mood around me was 'F off, good riddance, and dont 
come back' if you could not even bother staying to the end just because we had 
lost !
Game started Ok but a 'foul' (not convinced it was a foul but a tackle from 
behind is always dodgy) gave them a free kick on the edge of the box and a 
wicked deflection put them a goal up. After that they were a horrible team - 
plenty of time wasting and one blatant dive and one rolliing around holding his 
face incident should have led to two yellow cards Then the keeper was lucky not 
to see a red when he came out and clattered Roberts, plus we had a good shout 
for a penalty for a foul on Pontus.
We huffed and puffed a bit and looked decent enough but every 50/50 decision 
and loose ball and every bit of luck went their way and that culminated in a 
terrible mistake by Forshaw that enabled them to get 2 up A couple of changes 
at half time showed we were going for it, the ineffectual Harrison and the out 
of sorts (? not fully fit ) Hernandez being replace by Clarke and Douglas, We 
had a few chances to pull one back , a great cross along the six yard box was 
well defended, our one decent shot on target was well saved and a good free 
kick was headed wide by Ayling. They continued to pick up all the pieces and 
win 50/50s so perhaps it was due to good play rather than luck Then a quick 
break, another deflected shot and 3 0 game over - cue mass exodus - the players 
tonight and over the season so far deserved better Bamford came on , scored 
with a good back header but too little too late - albeit it led fans to 
(wrongly) sing we are top of the league -they too stupid to understand goal 
difference ?
So an average performance led to a very poor result - made a bit better by the 
fact that West Brom had lost at home to Boro earlier on . Our recent form is 
not great and we are in danger of messing it all up, despite some fans trying 
to lighten the mood at the bus stop etc by declaring we are joint top The fact 
that Bamford was on the bench and even better scored, is the only real bright 
spot from the game (Clarke did impress again as an impact sub) As I say, anyone 
who has seen the game on TV before or since may dispute a lot of my 'facts' but 
I am just saying it as I saw it Need to at least avoid defeat next week at Boro 
and then beat Swansea to stop this season going down the tubes Dan James would 
not have made a difference to the result Too soon to panic and whatever the 
next 16 games bring this has been a great season Dave(pissed up and a bit 
pissed off) ___
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Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 Maybe Douglas would be better upfield and Alioski at left back? So in essence 
switch them round?
I agree with Shackleton instead of Ayling, problem next week is that boro are 
giants and will just launch it in the box. So maybe the week later :-)

Nick
On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 6:11:12 AM EST, Richard Walker via Leedslist 
 wrote:  
 
  A few thoughts from me. 
Lots of positives first half. I thought we played some great fast moving 
football and Norwich struggled at times to live with us. Unfortunately for us 
all that great play broke down at the edge of their box. Roofe is struggling 
and receiving the ball with his back to goal against someone who is twice his 
size is not what we want from him and the amount of times he lost possession 
yesterday was criminal. Compare to Bamford who played this role with ease. 
Norwich had the best front line of any team I've seen recently. Hernandez for 
them was MOTM and he looked a class above everyone else on the pitch. What a 
player and I'd be surprised to see him playing at Norwich after this season 
especially if they don't get promoted. Compare to our Hernandez who saw a lot 
of the ball but couldn't do anything with it. Having said that we missed his 
energy second half and just don't look the same team without him. 
I think Harrison on the whole has flattered to deceive. Yes he can play but 
there's rarely a good outcome to his play and I'm sure we're only playing him 
week in week out due to his contract and agreement we've got with his club. 
I thought defensively we were poor albeit against some pacey skillful 
attackers. Ayling can forget any thoughts of him playing at a higher level than 
this because he looked completely out of his depth at times and his passing 
just doesn't get any better. I'd look to play Shackleton. Having said that 
their second goal was as spawny as you can get and I'd question our wall 
positiioning for their free kick. They could have had another couple though.  
Second half wasn't as good and they looked pretty much in control until Bamford 
came on and nearly got a brace with this first 2 touches. He looks like the 
real deal to me at this level but is he fit ? Their third was just a cock up 
and you can say what you want about BFP's errors but none were as bad as 
Casilla's attempt at saving that. Early days to judge him but that was shite. 
Douglas came on and showed us yet again his inability to defend. At the start 
of the season everyone was thinking why had such a great player joined us but 
now it's clear that Wolves have offloaded someone who wouldn't have stood a 
chance in the PL. 
So overall, beaten by a better side (well their forward players were) but if we 
play at that pace and commitment with Bamford up front for the rest of the 
season I can't see us losing that many. 
One final word on the fans, which Nick got spot on. The ground emptied very 
quickly with over 15 minutes to go and it's ok to turn up and swirl your scarf 
in the air but there's a lot of happy clappy fuckers who have turned up this 
season but will disappear quickly if things take a downturn. I had to scramble 
for a ticket and yes that's probably my fault for not committing to a season 
ticket these days but if we're really giving tickets for loyalty half these 
fuckers shouldn't even be considered. Hopefully they'll not fancy the Sky game 
versus West Brom on a Friday night and I might have a better chance. I tried to 
upgrade my 'Silver Membership' to gold this week but was told there's no 
upgrade process you can only buy a gold separately. Fucking ridiculous. Rant 
over. If anyone with a season ticket wants to buy me 3 tickets for the West 
Brom game when they go on sale I would be v.grateful and transfer money before 
you send me them. As it stands I have to wait until season ticket holders and 
gold members have snapped up tickets before I get a chance. 
My scores:
Casilla - 4. Poor keeping for 3rd goal 
Ayling - 4. Some good forward movement in first half but generally shit 
Allioski - 6. I thought he did ok. Better prospect than Douglas at left back 
maybe ?
Jansson - 6.  Both Jansson and Cooper got through lots of good defensive work 
but today they met their match big time. 
Cooper - 6. Ditto
Forshaw - 7. Lot of people slagging him off and yes he lost his way second half 
as Norwich took control but I thought he was immense in the first and covered a 
hell of a lot of ground. 
Klich - 5. Good first half but faded badly second. 
Harrison - 4. A few decent moments first half but ineffective. 
Roofe - 4. Apparently he nearly scored start of the first half - I missed that 
as I was finishing of my beer. Apart from that he was ineffective. He's had a 
great season but time for a rest. 
Roberts - 6. I would have taken Roofe over before Roberts. I thought he looked 
very lively and did at least manage an effort in the first half. 
Subs:
Bamford - 8. It's aways easier to come on as a sub especially when team you're 
playing a

Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 I don't think Harrison was that bad. Not convinced Clarke can go a whole game.
On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 5:09:41 AM EST, Simon McNally 
 wrote:  
 
 Agree Dave. Been looking at remaining fixtures and after blades game there are 
a lot of winnable games. We just need to keep going for next few weeks.
As for the game, feels like an opportunity missed. Needless freekick following 
giving the ball away in a bad area leads to first goal, albeit from a deflected 
free kick and then they can sit and hit us on the break. I thought we were well 
on top after that and would equalise before half time but then Forshaw 
intervened. I thought he was superb against Derby but this was back to the 
Forshaw I don’t rate. Trips over the ball and gives them possession deep in our 
half and then plays Pukki onside to score. At the game I thought he was a mile 
offside but for some reason Forshaw is miles deeper than the rest of our 
defence and plays him on.
He nearly got caught in possession a few more times - he always seems to want 
more time than he actually has.
We also seem to have decided to start lunging into challenges with Forshaw and 
Ayling the main culprits, taking themselves completely out of the game.
I thought Ayling was really poor - if I was their winger I’d have kept running 
at him as his legs looked to have gone.
Pablo was as bad as I’ve ever seen him - I wonder if he’s not fully fit after 
going off injured against Rotherham.
Roofe was back to the Roofe of last season - falling over a lot and losing the 
ball.
After all that we’re still second and 3 clear of third with 16 games to play. 
It’s not all doom and gloom but there’s a worrying trend developing. Too many 
players running into bad form at a key point of the season.
Can’t help but think a few more signings in the window were needed.
Next game I’d play Shackleton for Ayling, Phillips for Forshaw, Clarke for 
Harrison and Bamford for Roofe.

S

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Feb 2019, at 22:31, "nat...@sky.com"  wrote:
> 
> Just got home so have not seen anything on TV or read any reports so here are 
> a few thoughts from watching it live
> A great atmosphere to start with but that soon died and apart from a 
> brilliant whole ground Waccoe at two down the fans were poor today. The 
> number who left as their 3rd went in was nothing short of disgraceful and the 
> general mood around me was 'F off, good riddance, and dont come back' if you 
> could not even bother staying to the end just because we had lost !
> Game started Ok but a 'foul' (not convinced it was a foul but a tackle from 
> behind is always dodgy) gave them a free kick on the edge of the box and a 
> wicked deflection put them a goal up. After that they were a horrible team - 
> plenty of time wasting and one blatant dive and one rolliing around holding 
> his face incident should have led to two yellow cards
> Then the keeper was lucky not to see a red when he came out and clattered 
> Roberts, plus we had a good shout for a penalty for a foul on Pontus.
> We huffed and puffed a bit and looked decent enough but every 50/50 decision 
> and loose ball and every bit of luck went their way and that culminated in a 
> terrible mistake by Forshaw that enabled them to get 2 up
> A couple of changes at half time showed we were going for it, the ineffectual 
> Harrison and the out of sorts (? not fully fit ) Hernandez being replace by 
> Clarke and Douglas,
> We had a few chances to pull one back , a great cross along the six yard box 
> was well defended, our one decent shot on target was well saved and a good 
> free kick was headed wide by Ayling. They continued to pick up all the pieces 
> and win 50/50s so perhaps it was due to good play rather than luck
> Then a quick break, another deflected shot and 3 0 game over - cue mass 
> exodus - the players tonight and over the season so far deserved better
> Bamford came on , scored with a good back header but too little too late - 
> albeit it led fans to (wrongly) sing we are top of the league -they too 
> stupid to understand goal difference ?
> So an average performance led to a very poor result - made a bit better by 
> the fact that West Brom had lost at home to Boro earlier on . Our recent form 
> is not great and we are in danger of messing it all up, despite some fans 
> trying to lighten the mood at the bus stop etc by declaring we are joint top
> The fact that Bamford was on the bench and even better scored, is the only 
> real bright spot from the game (Clarke did impress again as an impact sub)
> As I say, anyone who has seen the game on TV before or since may dispute a 
> lot of my 'facts' but I am just saying it as I saw it
> Need to at least avoid defeat next week at Boro and then beat Swansea to stop 
> this season going down the tubes
> Dan James would not have made a difference to the result
> Too soon to panic and whatever the next 16 games bring this has been a great 
> season 
> Dave(pissed up and a bit pissed off)

Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 I thought from the four games of Norwich, Middlesborough, Sheffield Utd and 
West Brom if we could get six points that would be good and keep us on track. 
Now we need two wins in three. Oh crap
On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 5:09:41 AM EST, Simon McNally 
 wrote:  
 
 Agree Dave. Been looking at remaining fixtures and after blades game there are 
a lot of winnable games. We just need to keep going for next few weeks.
As for the game, feels like an opportunity missed. Needless freekick following 
giving the ball away in a bad area leads to first goal, albeit from a deflected 
free kick and then they can sit and hit us on the break. I thought we were well 
on top after that and would equalise before half time but then Forshaw 
intervened. I thought he was superb against Derby but this was back to the 
Forshaw I don’t rate. Trips over the ball and gives them possession deep in our 
half and then plays Pukki onside to score. At the game I thought he was a mile 
offside but for some reason Forshaw is miles deeper than the rest of our 
defence and plays him on.
He nearly got caught in possession a few more times - he always seems to want 
more time than he actually has.
We also seem to have decided to start lunging into challenges with Forshaw and 
Ayling the main culprits, taking themselves completely out of the game.
I thought Ayling was really poor - if I was their winger I’d have kept running 
at him as his legs looked to have gone.
Pablo was as bad as I’ve ever seen him - I wonder if he’s not fully fit after 
going off injured against Rotherham.
Roofe was back to the Roofe of last season - falling over a lot and losing the 
ball.
After all that we’re still second and 3 clear of third with 16 games to play. 
It’s not all doom and gloom but there’s a worrying trend developing. Too many 
players running into bad form at a key point of the season.
Can’t help but think a few more signings in the window were needed.
Next game I’d play Shackleton for Ayling, Phillips for Forshaw, Clarke for 
Harrison and Bamford for Roofe.

S

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Feb 2019, at 22:31, "nat...@sky.com"  wrote:
> 
> Just got home so have not seen anything on TV or read any reports so here are 
> a few thoughts from watching it live
> A great atmosphere to start with but that soon died and apart from a 
> brilliant whole ground Waccoe at two down the fans were poor today. The 
> number who left as their 3rd went in was nothing short of disgraceful and the 
> general mood around me was 'F off, good riddance, and dont come back' if you 
> could not even bother staying to the end just because we had lost !
> Game started Ok but a 'foul' (not convinced it was a foul but a tackle from 
> behind is always dodgy) gave them a free kick on the edge of the box and a 
> wicked deflection put them a goal up. After that they were a horrible team - 
> plenty of time wasting and one blatant dive and one rolliing around holding 
> his face incident should have led to two yellow cards
> Then the keeper was lucky not to see a red when he came out and clattered 
> Roberts, plus we had a good shout for a penalty for a foul on Pontus.
> We huffed and puffed a bit and looked decent enough but every 50/50 decision 
> and loose ball and every bit of luck went their way and that culminated in a 
> terrible mistake by Forshaw that enabled them to get 2 up
> A couple of changes at half time showed we were going for it, the ineffectual 
> Harrison and the out of sorts (? not fully fit ) Hernandez being replace by 
> Clarke and Douglas,
> We had a few chances to pull one back , a great cross along the six yard box 
> was well defended, our one decent shot on target was well saved and a good 
> free kick was headed wide by Ayling. They continued to pick up all the pieces 
> and win 50/50s so perhaps it was due to good play rather than luck
> Then a quick break, another deflected shot and 3 0 game over - cue mass 
> exodus - the players tonight and over the season so far deserved better
> Bamford came on , scored with a good back header but too little too late - 
> albeit it led fans to (wrongly) sing we are top of the league -they too 
> stupid to understand goal difference ?
> So an average performance led to a very poor result - made a bit better by 
> the fact that West Brom had lost at home to Boro earlier on . Our recent form 
> is not great and we are in danger of messing it all up, despite some fans 
> trying to lighten the mood at the bus stop etc by declaring we are joint top
> The fact that Bamford was on the bench and even better scored, is the only 
> real bright spot from the game (Clarke did impress again as an impact sub)
> As I say, anyone who has seen the game on TV before or since may dispute a 
> lot of my 'facts' but I am just saying it as I saw it
> Need to at least avoid defeat next week at Boro and then beat Swansea to stop 
> this season going down the tubes
> Dan James would not have made a difference to the result
> Too soo

Re: [LU] Norwich

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 I watched again. We were excellent for the first three minutes and thirty 
secondsthen Pontus stuck his foot in.
On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 4:25:01 AM EST, Nick Allen 
 wrote:  
 
 Norwich were excellent, had a plan, the players and commitment to carry it out 
and the ability to improvise when needed...they did to us what I think we have 
done to others this season.

Points:
- I watch from the Kop, we saw the ball down our end 3 times in the first half, 
the two goals and a close call. The rest of the half was played around the 
Norwich box.

- 2 goals were deflections, and the other an almighty mix up in 
defence/midfield with us chucking away the chance to clear a couple of times

- what did happen when the keeper clattered Roberts going in for goal. A free 
kick was given, so a foul was seen, how come it wasn’t at least a yellow card?

- there did seem to be a good call for a penalty when Pontus went down

- Having gone in 2 up, Norwich worked their bollocks off to close us down, 
chase tackle and Harry everything, for the opening 15 minutes of the second 
half. And the doubled up on Clarke every time he got near the ball

- Aylings inability to pass is becoming a real liability...we need to think 
about a Shackleton Clarke right side.

- teams are happy to let Pontus and Cooper pass it between them, and rely on 
the fact that their distribution is patchy, that is where Philips comes in, we 
should probably move to a W formation with those three and two wing backs

- Bamford, 2 chances, 1 tipped onto the bar, 1 goal

- judging by Douglas’s second half, Alioski is a better bet there...

- yes a big crowd and a good noise at the start, but yelling xenophobic abuse 
at our Spanish keeper after 25 minutes and then half the ground emptying on 
their third goal shows we are still an attraction for part timers and arseholes

There’s work to do and a few tweaks to make but I think we still have a lot of 
hope.

Nick

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [LU] Norwich

[Nicholas Armit via Leedslist]

 Wait, five hours before and four after?!
Nick
On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 4:12:03 AM EST, Ted  
wrote:  
 
 I managed 4 John but it still wasn't enough to erase the memory!



On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 20:18  5 hours in the pub after it might be a better idea Ted :-(
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 2 Feb 2019, at 10:58, Ted  wrote:
> >
> > Yes - after years of mostly sh1te, I'm on the train to Leeds now, really
> > looking forward to it! Can't wait. Mind you, not sure 5 hours in the pub
> > beforehand is a good idea!
> >
> > 2-1
> >
> > Ted H
> >
> >> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 10:42 nat...@sky.com  >>
> >> Well the excitement levels are rising !TO be going to such a massive
> game
> >> in FEBRUARY is amazing given our recent history
> >> It is not a must win or even a must not lose, it is just one of 3
> masssive
> >> games and one of 17 huge games - no single game will define our season
> (or
> >> certainly not at this stage) but today is MASSIVE - win and we really
> can
> >> start to believe, a defeat and the naysayers will be out, slagging Radz
> off
> >> for only bringing in a keeper in Jan, and even MB for being so stubborn
> >> Whatever, come on LEEDS, today is the day
> >> Dave
> >> ___
> >> Leedslist mailing list
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> >> To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> >>
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> >>
> >> RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
> >>
> > ___
> > Leedslist mailing list
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> > To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org
> >
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> >
> > RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
>
>
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Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Simon McNally]

Third goal takes a deflection off the defender which I think is what beat 
Casilla. Still think he should have done better.
Douglas was awful.
As part of my clutching at straws for hopeful omens , this was the table after 
31 games in 1990!
https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-championship-1989-1990-spieltag/7/



Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Feb 2019, at 11:10, Richard Walker  wrote:
> 
> A few thoughts from me. 
> 
> Lots of positives first half. I thought we played some great fast moving 
> football and Norwich struggled at times to live with us. Unfortunately for us 
> all that great play broke down at the edge of their box. Roofe is struggling 
> and receiving the ball with his back to goal against someone who is twice his 
> size is not what we want from him and the amount of times he lost possession 
> yesterday was criminal. Compare to Bamford who played this role with ease. 
> 
> Norwich had the best front line of any team I've seen recently. Hernandez for 
> them was MOTM and he looked a class above everyone else on the pitch. What a 
> player and I'd be surprised to see him playing at Norwich after this season 
> especially if they don't get promoted. Compare to our Hernandez who saw a lot 
> of the ball but couldn't do anything with it. Having said that we missed his 
> energy second half and just don't look the same team without him. 
> 
> I think Harrison on the whole has flattered to deceive. Yes he can play but 
> there's rarely a good outcome to his play and I'm sure we're only playing him 
> week in week out due to his contract and agreement we've got with his club. 
> 
> I thought defensively we were poor albeit against some pacey skillful 
> attackers. Ayling can forget any thoughts of him playing at a higher level 
> than this because he looked completely out of his depth at times and his 
> passing just doesn't get any better. I'd look to play Shackleton. Having said 
> that their second goal was as spawny as you can get and I'd question our wall 
> positiioning for their free kick. They could have had another couple though.  
> 
> Second half wasn't as good and they looked pretty much in control until 
> Bamford came on and nearly got a brace with this first 2 touches. He looks 
> like the real deal to me at this level but is he fit ? Their third was just a 
> cock up and you can say what you want about BFP's errors but none were as bad 
> as Casilla's attempt at saving that. Early days to judge him but that was 
> shite. Douglas came on and showed us yet again his inability to defend. At 
> the start of the season everyone was thinking why had such a great player 
> joined us but now it's clear that Wolves have offloaded someone who wouldn't 
> have stood a chance in the PL. 
> 
> So overall, beaten by a better side (well their forward players were) but if 
> we play at that pace and commitment with Bamford up front for the rest of the 
> season I can't see us losing that many. 
> 
> One final word on the fans, which Nick got spot on. The ground emptied very 
> quickly with over 15 minutes to go and it's ok to turn up and swirl your 
> scarf in the air but there's a lot of happy clappy fuckers who have turned up 
> this season but will disappear quickly if things take a downturn. I had to 
> scramble for a ticket and yes that's probably my fault for not committing to 
> a season ticket these days but if we're really giving tickets for loyalty 
> half these fuckers shouldn't even be considered. Hopefully they'll not fancy 
> the Sky game versus West Brom on a Friday night and I might have a better 
> chance. I tried to upgrade my 'Silver Membership' to gold this week but was 
> told there's no upgrade process you can only buy a gold separately. Fucking 
> ridiculous. Rant over. If anyone with a season ticket wants to buy me 3 
> tickets for the West Brom game when they go on sale I would be v.grateful and 
> transfer money before you send me them. As it stands I have to wait until 
> season ticket holders and gold members have snapped up tickets before I get a 
> chance. 
> 
> My scores:
> 
> Casilla - 4. Poor keeping for 3rd goal 
> 
> Ayling - 4. Some good forward movement in first half but generally shit 
> 
> Allioski - 6. I thought he did ok. Better prospect than Douglas at left back 
> maybe ?
> 
> Jansson - 6.  Both Jansson and Cooper got through lots of good defensive work 
> but today they met their match big time. 
> 
> Cooper - 6. Ditto
> 
> Forshaw - 7. Lot of people slagging him off and yes he lost his way second 
> half as Norwich took control but I thought he was immense in the first and 
> covered a hell of a lot of ground. 
> 
> Klich - 5. Good first half but faded badly second. 
> 
> Harrison - 4. A few decent moments first half but ineffective. 
> 
> Roofe - 4. Apparently he nearly scored start of the first half - I missed 
> that as I was finishing of my beer. Apart from that he was ineffective. He's 
> had a great season but time for a rest. 
> 
> Roberts - 

Re: [LU] Take it on the chin!

[David Smail]

On his post match comments, Daniel Farke stated he'd changed things around
to adapt to playing Leeds, he went on to say something like that it wasn't
their usual plan. It certainly worked!

On the other hand, MB states that he will not change playing style so what's
the point in doing all this research into opponents if you're going to
blindly march on playing the same system anyway?

It's all about being able to adapt to the other side - if they're playing
you off the park and you stick with your guns, nothing will change - as
yesterday proved. 

Vision and technical ability played some part as well. 

 

Dave

 

 

 

You raise at least one very good point Alec - is Bielsa flexible enough. OK
his 

methods have been a revelation, and I'm a convert, BUT there is a fear that
his 

purist 'must do this everytime' approach doesn't deliver. Heresy I know, and


I'd get less flak if we'd just won, but the simple reality is you can't plan


everything, so when we need to I don't see why tightening the formation is
such 

a no no? 

 

I think by common consent most of our players have played at a level none 

thought was possible, particularly after last season, but the actual quality
of 

our individual players isn't great, and I have another fear that Bielsa 

believes his approach will work with any player if they buy into it,
regardless 

of quality? Playing Ayling demonstrates the problem! 

 

Like Alec, I've got the jitters over going up. Whilst not many teams will do


what Norwich did to us yesterday, teams know how to play us. Finally,
Bamford 

maybe looks like the best footballer we have, but I can't see him playing
the 

Bielsa way.

 

Roll on next week so we can get this out of our systems!

 

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[LU] Observer article

[Nick]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/03/leeds-united-marcelo-bielsa-daniel-taylor
 


Nick
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Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Richard Walker via Leedslist]

 A few thoughts from me. 
Lots of positives first half. I thought we played some great fast moving 
football and Norwich struggled at times to live with us. Unfortunately for us 
all that great play broke down at the edge of their box. Roofe is struggling 
and receiving the ball with his back to goal against someone who is twice his 
size is not what we want from him and the amount of times he lost possession 
yesterday was criminal. Compare to Bamford who played this role with ease. 
Norwich had the best front line of any team I've seen recently. Hernandez for 
them was MOTM and he looked a class above everyone else on the pitch. What a 
player and I'd be surprised to see him playing at Norwich after this season 
especially if they don't get promoted. Compare to our Hernandez who saw a lot 
of the ball but couldn't do anything with it. Having said that we missed his 
energy second half and just don't look the same team without him. 
I think Harrison on the whole has flattered to deceive. Yes he can play but 
there's rarely a good outcome to his play and I'm sure we're only playing him 
week in week out due to his contract and agreement we've got with his club. 
I thought defensively we were poor albeit against some pacey skillful 
attackers. Ayling can forget any thoughts of him playing at a higher level than 
this because he looked completely out of his depth at times and his passing 
just doesn't get any better. I'd look to play Shackleton. Having said that 
their second goal was as spawny as you can get and I'd question our wall 
positiioning for their free kick. They could have had another couple though.  
Second half wasn't as good and they looked pretty much in control until Bamford 
came on and nearly got a brace with this first 2 touches. He looks like the 
real deal to me at this level but is he fit ? Their third was just a cock up 
and you can say what you want about BFP's errors but none were as bad as 
Casilla's attempt at saving that. Early days to judge him but that was shite. 
Douglas came on and showed us yet again his inability to defend. At the start 
of the season everyone was thinking why had such a great player joined us but 
now it's clear that Wolves have offloaded someone who wouldn't have stood a 
chance in the PL. 
So overall, beaten by a better side (well their forward players were) but if we 
play at that pace and commitment with Bamford up front for the rest of the 
season I can't see us losing that many. 
One final word on the fans, which Nick got spot on. The ground emptied very 
quickly with over 15 minutes to go and it's ok to turn up and swirl your scarf 
in the air but there's a lot of happy clappy fuckers who have turned up this 
season but will disappear quickly if things take a downturn. I had to scramble 
for a ticket and yes that's probably my fault for not committing to a season 
ticket these days but if we're really giving tickets for loyalty half these 
fuckers shouldn't even be considered. Hopefully they'll not fancy the Sky game 
versus West Brom on a Friday night and I might have a better chance. I tried to 
upgrade my 'Silver Membership' to gold this week but was told there's no 
upgrade process you can only buy a gold separately. Fucking ridiculous. Rant 
over. If anyone with a season ticket wants to buy me 3 tickets for the West 
Brom game when they go on sale I would be v.grateful and transfer money before 
you send me them. As it stands I have to wait until season ticket holders and 
gold members have snapped up tickets before I get a chance. 
My scores:
Casilla - 4. Poor keeping for 3rd goal 
Ayling - 4. Some good forward movement in first half but generally shit 
Allioski - 6. I thought he did ok. Better prospect than Douglas at left back 
maybe ?
Jansson - 6.  Both Jansson and Cooper got through lots of good defensive work 
but today they met their match big time. 
Cooper - 6. Ditto
Forshaw - 7. Lot of people slagging him off and yes he lost his way second half 
as Norwich took control but I thought he was immense in the first and covered a 
hell of a lot of ground. 
Klich - 5. Good first half but faded badly second. 
Harrison - 4. A few decent moments first half but ineffective. 
Roofe - 4. Apparently he nearly scored start of the first half - I missed that 
as I was finishing of my beer. Apart from that he was ineffective. He's had a 
great season but time for a rest. 
Roberts - 6. I would have taken Roofe over before Roberts. I thought he looked 
very lively and did at least manage an effort in the first half. 
Subs:
Bamford - 8. It's aways easier to come on as a sub especially when team you're 
playing against is 3 up and coasting but he nearly turned it aorund. 
Clarke - 6. Had a couple of moments but we didn't give him enough of the ball. 
Douglas - 3. Nightmare.
Boro next week will be interesting. Hopefully Bamford starts and scores a 
hat-trick. 




 
On Sunday, 3 February 2019, 10:09:37 GMT, Simon McNally 
 wrote:  
 
 
> 

Re: [LU] Norwich - a few thoughts

[Simon McNally]

Agree Dave. Been looking at remaining fixtures and after blades game there are 
a lot of winnable games. We just need to keep going for next few weeks.
As for the game, feels like an opportunity missed. Needless freekick following 
giving the ball away in a bad area leads to first goal, albeit from a deflected 
free kick and then they can sit and hit us on the break. I thought we were well 
on top after that and would equalise before half time but then Forshaw 
intervened. I thought he was superb against Derby but this was back to the 
Forshaw I don’t rate. Trips over the ball and gives them possession deep in our 
half and then plays Pukki onside to score. At the game I thought he was a mile 
offside but for some reason Forshaw is miles deeper than the rest of our 
defence and plays him on.
He nearly got caught in possession a few more times - he always seems to want 
more time than he actually has.
We also seem to have decided to start lunging into challenges with Forshaw and 
Ayling the main culprits, taking themselves completely out of the game.
I thought Ayling was really poor - if I was their winger I’d have kept running 
at him as his legs looked to have gone.
Pablo was as bad as I’ve ever seen him - I wonder if he’s not fully fit after 
going off injured against Rotherham.
Roofe was back to the Roofe of last season - falling over a lot and losing the 
ball.
After all that we’re still second and 3 clear of third with 16 games to play. 
It’s not all doom and gloom but there’s a worrying trend developing. Too many 
players running into bad form at a key point of the season.
Can’t help but think a few more signings in the window were needed.
Next game I’d play Shackleton for Ayling, Phillips for Forshaw, Clarke for 
Harrison and Bamford for Roofe.

S

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Feb 2019, at 22:31, "nat...@sky.com"  wrote:
> 
> Just got home so have not seen anything on TV or read any reports so here are 
> a few thoughts from watching it live
> A great atmosphere to start with but that soon died and apart from a 
> brilliant whole ground Waccoe at two down the fans were poor today. The 
> number who left as their 3rd went in was nothing short of disgraceful and the 
> general mood around me was 'F off, good riddance, and dont come back' if you 
> could not even bother staying to the end just because we had lost !
> Game started Ok but a 'foul' (not convinced it was a foul but a tackle from 
> behind is always dodgy) gave them a free kick on the edge of the box and a 
> wicked deflection put them a goal up. After that they were a horrible team - 
> plenty of time wasting and one blatant dive and one rolliing around holding 
> his face incident should have led to two yellow cards
> Then the keeper was lucky not to see a red when he came out and clattered 
> Roberts, plus we had a good shout for a penalty for a foul on Pontus.
> We huffed and puffed a bit and looked decent enough but every 50/50 decision 
> and loose ball and every bit of luck went their way and that culminated in a 
> terrible mistake by Forshaw that enabled them to get 2 up
> A couple of changes at half time showed we were going for it, the ineffectual 
> Harrison and the out of sorts (? not fully fit ) Hernandez being replace by 
> Clarke and Douglas,
> We had a few chances to pull one back , a great cross along the six yard box 
> was well defended, our one decent shot on target was well saved and a good 
> free kick was headed wide by Ayling. They continued to pick up all the pieces 
> and win 50/50s so perhaps it was due to good play rather than luck
> Then a quick break, another deflected shot and 3 0 game over - cue mass 
> exodus - the players tonight and over the season so far deserved better
> Bamford came on , scored with a good back header but too little too late - 
> albeit it led fans to (wrongly) sing we are top of the league -they too 
> stupid to understand goal difference ?
> So an average performance led to a very poor result - made a bit better by 
> the fact that West Brom had lost at home to Boro earlier on . Our recent form 
> is not great and we are in danger of messing it all up, despite some fans 
> trying to lighten the mood at the bus stop etc by declaring we are joint top
> The fact that Bamford was on the bench and even better scored, is the only 
> real bright spot from the game (Clarke did impress again as an impact sub)
> As I say, anyone who has seen the game on TV before or since may dispute a 
> lot of my 'facts' but I am just saying it as I saw it
> Need to at least avoid defeat next week at Boro and then beat Swansea to stop 
> this season going down the tubes
> Dan James would not have made a difference to the result
> Too soon to panic and whatever the next 16 games bring this has been a great 
> season 
> Dave(pissed up and a bit pissed off)
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> To uns

Re: [LU] Take it on the chin!

[John Lee via Leedslist]

You raise at least one very good point Alec - is Bielsa flexible enough. OK his 
methods have been a revelation, and I’m a convert, BUT there is a fear that his 
purist ‘must do this everytime’ approach doesn’t deliver. Heresy I know, and 
I’d get less flak if we’d just won, but the simple reality is you can’t plan 
everything, so when we need to I don’t see why tightening the formation is such 
a no no? 

I think by common consent most of our players have played at a level none 
thought was possible, particularly after last season, but the actual quality of 
our individual players isn’t great, and I have another fear that Bielsa 
believes his approach will work with any player if they buy into it, regardless 
of quality? Playing Ayling demonstrates the problem! 

Like Alec, I’ve got the jitters over going up. Whilst not many teams will do 
what Norwich did to us yesterday, teams know how to play us. Finally, Bamford 
maybe looks like the best footballer we have, but I can’t see him playing the 
Bielsa way.

Roll on next week so we can get this out of our systems!

Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Feb 2019, at 03:45, Alec  wrote:
> 
> Bielsa has so far made a silk purse out of the proverbial sows ear. We have 
> surprised many teams this year with the speed and pressing. But I think we 
> may have been a little bit found out. 
> 
> The key is whether Bielsa really is a one trick pony, and even if he is, is 
> his one trick good enough for us with a current 7 point lead over 3rd. 
> 
> Personal view: I think we will be caught and we will end in 3rd or 4th (which 
> is still very creditable given the squad we have). 
> 
> Who knows what could happen in the playoffs. Anything could happen, even us 
> winning it. 
> Cheers
> A
> 
>> On 3 Feb 2019, at 8:30 am, Ted  wrote:
>> 
>> Bang on John.
>> 
>> Why can't it be easy for us, we've waited s long! 😉
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 20:13 John Lee via Leedslist > wrote:
>> 
>>> Yep, utterly outplayed, and whilst the possession stats will favour us at
>>> times, at no time did we look like winners. Mistake no 1 was leaving
>>> Phillips on the bench - the gaping hole in front of the back 4 was an
>>> invitation to push us back, and meant the backline had to play it out,
>>> which they did in a very panicky fashion. Mistake no 2 was not playing
>>> Douglas and Alioski as 3 and 11 from the start, although it has to be said
>>> that when Douglas did come on he was way off the pace! It didn’t help that
>>> Hernandez had his worst 45 minutes for a long time, or Ayling’s insistence
>>> on passing to the opposition!
>>> 
>>> It’s pointless panicking now, but today it was men against boys, and the
>>> boys won. I felt sorry for Clarke too - he’s not the messiah and the weight
>>> of expectation on him is too much.
>>> 
>>> And the bloody Rhinos got dicked as well! Not a good day for Leeds!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 2 Feb 2019, at 19:25, David Smail  wrote:
 
 Fair play to Norwich - weren't they excellent? Forced us into errors,
 mistakes, conceding free kicks and a mild sense of panic. They seemed to
>>> win
 90% second ball. MB out done on this one. Good spells of possession, but
>>> no
 cutting edge and  leading to very little. MB declares he won't change our
 style of play - no plan B - this was clear tonight.
 
 
 
 Dave
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [LU] Norwich

[Nick Allen]

My mistake, their keeper got a yellow...I meant why not a red, of course...

Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Feb 2019, at 09:24, Nick Allen  wrote:
> 
> Norwich were excellent, had a plan, the players and commitment to carry it 
> out and the ability to improvise when needed...they did to us what I think we 
> have done to others this season.
> 
> Points:
> - I watch from the Kop, we saw the ball down our end 3 times in the first 
> half, the two goals and a close call. The rest of the half was played around 
> the Norwich box.
> 
> - 2 goals were deflections, and the other an almighty mix up in 
> defence/midfield with us chucking away the chance to clear a couple of times
> 
> - what did happen when the keeper clattered Roberts going in for goal. A free 
> kick was given, so a foul was seen, how come it wasn’t at least a yellow card?
> 
> - there did seem to be a good call for a penalty when Pontus went down
> 
> - Having gone in 2 up, Norwich worked their bollocks off to close us down, 
> chase tackle and Harry everything, for the opening 15 minutes of the second 
> half. And the doubled up on Clarke every time he got near the ball
> 
> - Aylings inability to pass is becoming a real liability...we need to think 
> about a Shackleton Clarke right side.
> 
> - teams are happy to let Pontus and Cooper pass it between them, and rely on 
> the fact that their distribution is patchy, that is where Philips comes in, 
> we should probably move to a W formation with those three and two wing backs
> 
> - Bamford, 2 chances, 1 tipped onto the bar, 1 goal
> 
> - judging by Douglas’s second half, Alioski is a better bet there...
> 
> - yes a big crowd and a good noise at the start, but yelling xenophobic abuse 
> at our Spanish keeper after 25 minutes and then half the ground emptying on 
> their third goal shows we are still an attraction for part timers and 
> arseholes
> 
> There’s work to do and a few tweaks to make but I think we still have a lot 
> of hope.
> 
> Nick
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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[LU] Norwich

[Nick Allen]

Norwich were excellent, had a plan, the players and commitment to carry it out 
and the ability to improvise when needed...they did to us what I think we have 
done to others this season.

Points:
- I watch from the Kop, we saw the ball down our end 3 times in the first half, 
the two goals and a close call. The rest of the half was played around the 
Norwich box.

- 2 goals were deflections, and the other an almighty mix up in 
defence/midfield with us chucking away the chance to clear a couple of times

- what did happen when the keeper clattered Roberts going in for goal. A free 
kick was given, so a foul was seen, how come it wasn’t at least a yellow card?

- there did seem to be a good call for a penalty when Pontus went down

- Having gone in 2 up, Norwich worked their bollocks off to close us down, 
chase tackle and Harry everything, for the opening 15 minutes of the second 
half. And the doubled up on Clarke every time he got near the ball

- Aylings inability to pass is becoming a real liability...we need to think 
about a Shackleton Clarke right side.

- teams are happy to let Pontus and Cooper pass it between them, and rely on 
the fact that their distribution is patchy, that is where Philips comes in, we 
should probably move to a W formation with those three and two wing backs

- Bamford, 2 chances, 1 tipped onto the bar, 1 goal

- judging by Douglas’s second half, Alioski is a better bet there...

- yes a big crowd and a good noise at the start, but yelling xenophobic abuse 
at our Spanish keeper after 25 minutes and then half the ground emptying on 
their third goal shows we are still an attraction for part timers and arseholes

There’s work to do and a few tweaks to make but I think we still have a lot of 
hope.

Nick

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [LU] Norwich

[Ted]

I managed 4 John but it still wasn't enough to erase the memory!



On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 20:18  5 hours in the pub after it might be a better idea Ted :-(
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 2 Feb 2019, at 10:58, Ted  wrote:
> >
> > Yes - after years of mostly sh1te, I'm on the train to Leeds now, really
> > looking forward to it! Can't wait. Mind you, not sure 5 hours in the pub
> > beforehand is a good idea!
> >
> > 2-1
> >
> > Ted H
> >
> >> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 10:42 nat...@sky.com  >>
> >> Well the excitement levels are rising !TO be going to such a massive
> game
> >> in FEBRUARY is amazing given our recent history
> >> It is not a must win or even a must not lose, it is just one of 3
> masssive
> >> games and one of 17 huge games - no single game will define our season
> (or
> >> certainly not at this stage) but today is MASSIVE - win and we really
> can
> >> start to believe, a defeat and the naysayers will be out, slagging Radz
> off
> >> for only bringing in a keeper in Jan, and even MB for being so stubborn
> >> Whatever, come on LEEDS, today is the day
> >> Dave
> >> ___
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> >> RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
> >>
> > ___
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> > RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
>
>
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RIP Jimmy WAC-COE