Re: [LU] Graham smyth
Casillas er problably one of the better we can have for that level of wages that is able to play they way MB wants a keeper to play. > On 9. Aug 2019, at 11:34, Joe Skinner wrote: > > Casillas on £35k a week, that's nuts. He's fucking shite ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
Casillas on £35k a week, that's nuts. He's fucking shite -Original Message- From: Leedslist On Behalf Of Jim Moran Sent: 09 August 2019 10:20 To: Tim Leslie Cc: Leeds List Subject: Re: [LU] Graham smyth That article alone has swung me to subscribe to The Athletic. The writing and detail is on another level. On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 at 09:41, Tim Leslie wrote: > On this occasion Rich, I think you're being a bit naive. I think the > YEP version is a cut down of Phil Hays piece in the new Athletic > website (Subscription required, but I signed up on a £30 for a year > option. The writing is VERY good I think). It's clear we were over > loaded with youngsters who weren't going to 'make it' and they needed > offloading, otherwise we'd breach the rules. Doing a Derby and selling > the ground wasn't (apparently) an option due to the buy back recently. > So, much as I'd have loved the two Inter Milan lads, the Spurs centre > half AND Ryan Kent on top of what we did, I think we may be OK judging > by what other clubs are also having to do. > > StigOfThePragmaticDump > > CEO Kinnear: Leeds rejected £35m of offers this summer but finance > rules are ‘pointless’ > > By Phil Hay Aug 8, 2019 > > The Championship is where clubs and owners go to lose money. A chief > executive who now works abroad once summed it up like this: “You’re > going to make losses whether you want to or not. You just have to > decide how much you’re going to lose.” > From time to time there are exceptions to the rule, like the nominal > profit of £976,000 Leeds United turned in 2017. That would pay their > current wage bill for less than a fortnight. And less again after tax. > England’s second division has long been a diverse field in which > certain clubs overspend because they feel they have no choice and > others overspend because they have the cash and the mood takes them. > What CEOs across the league noticed in this transfer window was a > developing trend: that of a high proportion of teams heading for > negative net spends, some by a very comfortable margin. Incoming fees > have been vast: £15 million to Birmingham City for Che Adams, £20 > million to Brentford for Neal Maupay, £20 million to Bristol City for > Adam Webster. In a demonstration of the disparity with the Premier > League, Brighton alone financed two of those signings (Maupay and > Webster). > The mutual prudence of the clubs who pocketed those fees was not a > coincidence. The Championship has been bound by Profit and > Sustainability (PnS) rules for the past three years but in March, > something happened. Birmingham City exceeded the losses permitted by > the EFL and, on the guidance of an independent disciplinary > commission, were deducted nine points. > “The Birmingham decision changed the world in this division,” Leeds > chief executive Angus Kinnear tells The Athletic. “Everybody realised > PnS had teeth.” > Birmingham’s breach of EFL limits, which allow a maximum loss of £39 > million over a rolling three-year period, was public knowledge and > widely discussed but no-one in the Championship was sure how the EFL > would act. The end of the 2018-19 season marked the end of the first > full PnS accounting window and Birmingham became something of a guinea > pig: the only club officially in breach and the only club in harm’s way. > Even the directors at St Andrew’s were in the dark about the likely > consequences. > The lack of clarity was a frustration. “Every club wanted to be > absolutely clear about the sanctions,” Kinnear says. “None of us were > sure if there would be sporting sanctions or if the penalty would be > financial. If it’s financial then a decision over whether to abide by > PnS becomes an economic one, like in US sport if you breach the salary > cap. If it’s a sporting sanction, like a points deduction, then that’s > very different.” > Leeds made a big play of PnS – the EFL’s version of Financial Fair > Play > (FFP) – throughout the transfer window just gone. They concentrated > heavily on ensuring compliance internally while trying to manage an > external audience who questioned the numbers involved and, in some > quarters, debated whether the club’s majority shareholder, Andrea > Radrizzani, was merely being tight. > Radrizzani, a charismatic Italian who made a fortune through the sale > of TV rights deals, is heavily invested in Leeds: £45 million for his > original takeover, some £20 million to buy back Leeds’ Elland Road > stadium from its private landlord two years ago and the person whom > Kinnear calls whenever the club need additional funds. > A stake of around 13 per cent was sold by Radrizzani to the San > Francisco 49ers last summer but the £11 million paid
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
That article alone has swung me to subscribe to The Athletic. The writing and detail is on another level. On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 at 09:41, Tim Leslie wrote: > On this occasion Rich, I think you're being a bit naive. I think the YEP > version is a cut down of Phil Hays piece in the new Athletic website > (Subscription required, but I signed up on a £30 for a year option. The > writing is VERY good I think). It's clear we were over loaded with > youngsters who weren't going to 'make it' and they needed offloading, > otherwise we'd breach the rules. Doing a Derby and selling the ground > wasn't (apparently) an option due to the buy back recently. So, much as > I'd have loved the two Inter Milan lads, the Spurs centre half AND Ryan > Kent on top of what we did, I think we may be OK judging by what other > clubs are also having to do. > > StigOfThePragmaticDump > > CEO Kinnear: Leeds rejected £35m of offers this summer but finance rules > are ‘pointless’ > > By Phil Hay Aug 8, 2019 > > The Championship is where clubs and owners go to lose money. A chief > executive who now works abroad once summed it up like this: “You’re > going to make losses whether you want to or not. You just have to decide > how much you’re going to lose.” > From time to time there are exceptions to the rule, like the nominal > profit of £976,000 Leeds United turned in 2017. That would pay their > current wage bill for less than a fortnight. And less again after tax. > England’s second division has long been a diverse field in which certain > clubs overspend because they feel they have no choice and others > overspend because they have the cash and the mood takes them. > What CEOs across the league noticed in this transfer window was a > developing trend: that of a high proportion of teams heading for > negative net spends, some by a very comfortable margin. Incoming fees > have been vast: £15 million to Birmingham City for Che Adams, £20 > million to Brentford for Neal Maupay, £20 million to Bristol City for > Adam Webster. In a demonstration of the disparity with the Premier > League, Brighton alone financed two of those signings (Maupay and > Webster). > The mutual prudence of the clubs who pocketed those fees was not a > coincidence. The Championship has been bound by Profit and > Sustainability (PnS) rules for the past three years but in March, > something happened. Birmingham City exceeded the losses permitted by the > EFL and, on the guidance of an independent disciplinary commission, were > deducted nine points. > “The Birmingham decision changed the world in this division,” Leeds > chief executive Angus Kinnear tells The Athletic. “Everybody realised > PnS had teeth.” > Birmingham’s breach of EFL limits, which allow a maximum loss of £39 > million over a rolling three-year period, was public knowledge and > widely discussed but no-one in the Championship was sure how the EFL > would act. The end of the 2018-19 season marked the end of the first > full PnS accounting window and Birmingham became something of a guinea > pig: the only club officially in breach and the only club in harm’s way. > Even the directors at St Andrew’s were in the dark about the likely > consequences. > The lack of clarity was a frustration. “Every club wanted to be > absolutely clear about the sanctions,” Kinnear says. “None of us were > sure if there would be sporting sanctions or if the penalty would be > financial. If it’s financial then a decision over whether to abide by > PnS becomes an economic one, like in US sport if you breach the salary > cap. If it’s a sporting sanction, like a points deduction, then that’s > very different.” > Leeds made a big play of PnS – the EFL’s version of Financial Fair Play > (FFP) – throughout the transfer window just gone. They concentrated > heavily on ensuring compliance internally while trying to manage an > external audience who questioned the numbers involved and, in some > quarters, debated whether the club’s majority shareholder, Andrea > Radrizzani, was merely being tight. > Radrizzani, a charismatic Italian who made a fortune through the sale of > TV rights deals, is heavily invested in Leeds: £45 million for his > original takeover, some £20 million to buy back Leeds’ Elland Road > stadium from its private landlord two years ago and the person whom > Kinnear calls whenever the club need additional funds. > A stake of around 13 per cent was sold by Radrizzani to the San > Francisco 49ers last summer but the £11 million paid by the 49ers went > back into the Elland Road accounts. Leeds are a perfect example of how > life in the Championship works: the team with the biggest annual > turnover in the league, losing more than £1 million a month. > In the first two years of the EFL’s PnS cycle — which began with the > 2016-17 season — Leeds’ deficit stood at less than £4 million, a long > way short of £39 million. But last year, as the wage bill inflated to > more than £30 million, the yearly loss rose above £15
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
On this occasion Rich, I think you're being a bit naive. I think the YEP version is a cut down of Phil Hays piece in the new Athletic website (Subscription required, but I signed up on a £30 for a year option. The writing is VERY good I think). It's clear we were over loaded with youngsters who weren't going to 'make it' and they needed offloading, otherwise we'd breach the rules. Doing a Derby and selling the ground wasn't (apparently) an option due to the buy back recently. So, much as I'd have loved the two Inter Milan lads, the Spurs centre half AND Ryan Kent on top of what we did, I think we may be OK judging by what other clubs are also having to do. StigOfThePragmaticDump CEO Kinnear: Leeds rejected £35m of offers this summer but finance rules are ‘pointless’ By Phil Hay Aug 8, 2019 The Championship is where clubs and owners go to lose money. A chief executive who now works abroad once summed it up like this: “You’re going to make losses whether you want to or not. You just have to decide how much you’re going to lose.” From time to time there are exceptions to the rule, like the nominal profit of £976,000 Leeds United turned in 2017. That would pay their current wage bill for less than a fortnight. And less again after tax. England’s second division has long been a diverse field in which certain clubs overspend because they feel they have no choice and others overspend because they have the cash and the mood takes them. What CEOs across the league noticed in this transfer window was a developing trend: that of a high proportion of teams heading for negative net spends, some by a very comfortable margin. Incoming fees have been vast: £15 million to Birmingham City for Che Adams, £20 million to Brentford for Neal Maupay, £20 million to Bristol City for Adam Webster. In a demonstration of the disparity with the Premier League, Brighton alone financed two of those signings (Maupay and Webster). The mutual prudence of the clubs who pocketed those fees was not a coincidence. The Championship has been bound by Profit and Sustainability (PnS) rules for the past three years but in March, something happened. Birmingham City exceeded the losses permitted by the EFL and, on the guidance of an independent disciplinary commission, were deducted nine points. “The Birmingham decision changed the world in this division,” Leeds chief executive Angus Kinnear tells The Athletic. “Everybody realised PnS had teeth.” Birmingham’s breach of EFL limits, which allow a maximum loss of £39 million over a rolling three-year period, was public knowledge and widely discussed but no-one in the Championship was sure how the EFL would act. The end of the 2018-19 season marked the end of the first full PnS accounting window and Birmingham became something of a guinea pig: the only club officially in breach and the only club in harm’s way. Even the directors at St Andrew’s were in the dark about the likely consequences. The lack of clarity was a frustration. “Every club wanted to be absolutely clear about the sanctions,” Kinnear says. “None of us were sure if there would be sporting sanctions or if the penalty would be financial. If it’s financial then a decision over whether to abide by PnS becomes an economic one, like in US sport if you breach the salary cap. If it’s a sporting sanction, like a points deduction, then that’s very different.” Leeds made a big play of PnS – the EFL’s version of Financial Fair Play (FFP) – throughout the transfer window just gone. They concentrated heavily on ensuring compliance internally while trying to manage an external audience who questioned the numbers involved and, in some quarters, debated whether the club’s majority shareholder, Andrea Radrizzani, was merely being tight. Radrizzani, a charismatic Italian who made a fortune through the sale of TV rights deals, is heavily invested in Leeds: £45 million for his original takeover, some £20 million to buy back Leeds’ Elland Road stadium from its private landlord two years ago and the person whom Kinnear calls whenever the club need additional funds. A stake of around 13 per cent was sold by Radrizzani to the San Francisco 49ers last summer but the £11 million paid by the 49ers went back into the Elland Road accounts. Leeds are a perfect example of how life in the Championship works: the team with the biggest annual turnover in the league, losing more than £1 million a month. In the first two years of the EFL’s PnS cycle — which began with the 2016-17 season — Leeds’ deficit stood at less than £4 million, a long way short of £39 million. But last year, as the wage bill inflated to more than £30 million, the yearly loss rose above £15 million despite a turnover of close to £50 million. (Leeds, commercially, have few serious rivals below the Premier League). Certain costs are exempt from PnS calculations. Financial experts estimate that a category two academy, which Leeds have,
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
OK, FWIW here's my take. Our wage bill has skyrocketed, we invested significantly in the coaching staff, in financial terms the club like almost all others has running costs that vastly outweigh income and AR is unwilling to put any more of his money into the club or sell to 3rd parties. The expert interviewed thought AR was acting on a sensible. I know listening to experts is unpopular nowadays, but unless you can come up with a flaw on his arguement, just being a contrarian is wearing a bit thin. With the owners, staff and manager we've just had the best season for nearly 2 decades. Always talking a negative view, will statistically show you to be right more often that not due to the inherent restricted nature of success in football, but its it a tad dull and wearing? Sent from my Mobile. From: Richard Walker Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 10:10:44 PM To: Leeds List ; nat...@sky.com ; Richard Naef Subject: Re: [LU] Graham smyth I read the article and got no answers only that they'd refused another £35 million of offers. Yes we don't want another Ridsdale situation but 27 million out and not a penny spent in can be considered sensible or just lacking in ambition. As I say, promotion on the cheap hopefully. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 22:07:08 BST, Richard Naef wrote: I think youll find answers to a few of the questions you raised and context for the decisions made. We all lived through the excesses of Ridsdale and asset stripping of Bates, so ARs way of doing it seems sensible. Sent from my Mobile. From: Leedslist on behalf of Richard Walker via Leedslist Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:36:26 PM To: Leeds List ; nat...@sky.com Subject: Re: [LU] Graham smyth no worries Dave - got it from YEP On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 21:14:31 BST, Richard Walker via Leedslist wrote: Dave, Could you C this article please. When I tried to access via Twitter it told me I had to subscribe to read. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 17:25:42 BST, nat...@sky.com wrote: Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
I read the article and got no answers only that they'd refused another £35 million of offers. Yes we don't want another Ridsdale situation but 27 million out and not a penny spent in can be considered sensible or just lacking in ambition. As I say, promotion on the cheap hopefully. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 22:07:08 BST, Richard Naef wrote: I think youll find answers to a few of the questions you raised and context for the decisions made. We all lived through the excesses of Ridsdale and asset stripping of Bates, so ARs way of doing it seems sensible. Sent from my Mobile. From: Leedslist on behalf of Richard Walker via Leedslist Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:36:26 PM To: Leeds List ; nat...@sky.com Subject: Re: [LU] Graham smyth no worries Dave - got it from YEP On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 21:14:31 BST, Richard Walker via Leedslist wrote: Dave, Could you C this article please. When I tried to access via Twitter it told me I had to subscribe to read. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 17:25:42 BST, nat...@sky.com wrote: Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
I think youll find answers to a few of the questions you raised and context for the decisions made. We all lived through the excesses of Ridsdale and asset stripping of Bates, so ARs way of doing it seems sensible. Sent from my Mobile. From: Leedslist on behalf of Richard Walker via Leedslist Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:36:26 PM To: Leeds List ; nat...@sky.com Subject: Re: [LU] Graham smyth no worries Dave - got it from YEP On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 21:14:31 BST, Richard Walker via Leedslist wrote: Dave, Could you C this article please. When I tried to access via Twitter it told me I had to subscribe to read. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 17:25:42 BST, nat...@sky.com wrote: Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
no worries Dave - got it from YEP On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 21:14:31 BST, Richard Walker via Leedslist wrote: Dave, Could you C this article please. When I tried to access via Twitter it told me I had to subscribe to read. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 17:25:42 BST, nat...@sky.com wrote: Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
Re: [LU] Graham smyth
Dave, Could you C this article please. When I tried to access via Twitter it told me I had to subscribe to read. On Thursday, 8 August 2019, 17:25:42 BST, nat...@sky.com wrote: Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
[LU] Graham smyth
Worth reading his articles / interview with Kinnear Says how buying a proven championship goal scorer is a "myth" and explains our plan re ffp etc Talks some sense ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/leedslist/ RIP Jimmy WAC-COE
