Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Hello Joe. 
It looks like it should work. Its nice that you will not have to rune your alum 
rails. 
I wish you luck. I cant wait to see how it turns out. ;-) 
C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 11:51:50 AM 
Subject: Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy 

update time...was able to purchase some of the railing i intend to use from 
ebay...great deal...worked out to be $2.50 a foot...will soon try welding two 
pieces together(they are 22" each...total of ten pieces purchased)...hopefully, 
no "bumps"...was a little concerned because i forgot(duh!), that the legacy 
railing is laid down on the "Y" axis...this presents a 7/8" wide opening and 
the need to redesign the attachment hardware...but the linear rail "nestles" 
into legacy rail quite nicely, to the point of self centering itself, if so 
desired...next, picked up a piece of 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat steel from 
mcmaster...this slides into the legacy rail...that space is 1 5/8" wide, the 
difference of 1/8" can be very helpful, as i plan on drilling and tapping 10-32 
set screws into each side of the legacy rail so the set screws are aligned with 
the steel bar... in effect, you can lock in place and center/adjust the 1 1/2" 
steel bar within the limits of that 1/8" difference...will be helpful when 
setting up the linear rails and making sure that they are parallel...there is a 
small gap between the bottom of the linear rail and the steel rail, so just 
need to drill and tap holes that line up with the pre-drilled holes on the 
linear rail and use the steel bar as a clamp...ordered one bearing carriage to 
try as a sample but have not gotten it yet...but so far, things seem to be 
going well...if welding the linear rails works out, there will be a big savings 
(about $150.00, in my case)...sorry for the poor photos...i need a camera that 
i can put a macro lens on...thanks...and as always, comments, suggestions and 
critiques are welcome...joe 

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:45:22 AM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote: 


mike, 
excellent point and i have given it a good amount of thought...basically it 
boiled down to the design of the rail and carriage...from what i have 
researched, the type of rail and carriage that will have little to no sawdust 
issues has a very high mounting point...could be as much as a total of 3" or 
more, if you do the "X" and "Y" axis'...this presents other issues of router 
bit reach and carriage attachment to the lead screw...i anticipate the 
necessity of simply having to use a blow gun while the machine is working...a 
pain in the ass for sure, but i have seen cnc machinery in action and it seems 
often enough that a blow gun is used to keep sawdust invasion down to a 
minimum...i guess in some instances it is a must...if you are standing there 
watching as you do the first twist, of let's say eight, on a workpiece, i do 
not see an issue of using a blow gun...plus my circumstances present other 
problems...i need two, 16ft pieces of rail...the only way to do that is to join 
sections together...welding extruded aluminum is not one of my welding skills, 
so the fact that this rail is steel is a big plus for me...i believe two 
sections of steel rail can be TIG welded together, filed and sanded down and 
there will be no "bump" as a carriage passes over it...i am also considering 
the fact of how much i use my legacy(and how much anyone else in the group uses 
their machine)...my machine can easily go a month or two with no use 
whatsoever(lately, business STINKS!)...realistically, if i had that much work, 
i would buy the cnc machine and call it a day...but to spend several thousand 
dollars to get even a higher end linear bearing set-up for my present machine 
does not seem logical and is not in my budget...anyway, appreciate the comment 
and would certainly welcome more,especially if it helps to solve a potential 
problem that i missed(THAT HAPPENS A LOT LATELY!...lol!)...thanks...joe 

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:01:47 PM UTC-5, LILtwisted wrote: 


My greatest concern for this system is sawdust. How do you intend to keep them 
clear? Sawdust in them will be like a road block. Cheap will be a disaster, 
spend the money you need to, to do it right the first time. I would not use 
these unless you have a solution for the dust. Look at open bearings instead 

Mike 
OK 
On 12/17/2014 7:58 PM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: 



curtis, 
took a look at that rail set up and unless anyone is considering a major 
re-design and rebuild of their legacy, i do not see it working well on a 
legacy...you need to build your own carriage and i did not see a way to adjust 
the bearings to eliminate play...my intention is to simply, and as cheaply as 
possible, modify the legacy...using the pbc rail and carriages, i think there 
will be just a bit of drilling,tapping, some minor filing/sanding

Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy

[Tim Krause]

Personally, I would not weld the pieces together.  I think the metal will 
distort.  I would try two sections butted together and test it out. 

-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:51 AM
  Subject: Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy


  update time...was able to purchase some of the railing i intend to use from 
ebay...great deal...worked out to be $2.50 a foot...will soon try welding two 
pieces together(they are 22" each...total of ten pieces purchased)...hopefully, 
no "bumps"...was a little concerned because i forgot(duh!), that the legacy 
railing is laid down on the "Y" axis...this presents a 7/8" wide opening and 
the need to redesign the attachment hardware...but the linear rail "nestles" 
into legacy rail quite nicely, to the point of self centering itself, if so 
desired...next, picked up a piece of 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat steel from 
mcmaster...this slides into the legacy rail...that space is 1 5/8" wide, the 
difference of 1/8" can be very helpful, as i plan on drilling and tapping 10-32 
set screws into each side of the legacy rail so the set screws are aligned with 
the steel bar... in effect, you can lock in place and center/adjust the 1 1/2" 
steel bar within the limits of that 1/8" difference...will be helpful when 
setting up the linear rails and making sure that they are parallel...there is a 
small gap between the bottom of the linear rail and the steel rail, so just 
need to drill and tap holes that line up with the pre-drilled holes on the 
linear rail and use the steel bar as a clamp...ordered one bearing carriage to 
try as a sample but have not gotten it yet...but so far, things seem to be 
going well...if welding the linear rails works out, there will be a big savings 
(about $150.00, in my case)...sorry for the poor photos...i need a camera that 
i can put a macro lens on...thanks...and as always, comments, suggestions and 
critiques are welcome...joe

  On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:45:22 AM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
mike,
excellent point and i have given it a good amount of 
thought...basically it boiled down to the design of the rail and 
carriage...from what i have researched, the type of rail and carriage that will 
have little to no sawdust issues has a very high mounting point...could be as 
much as a total of 3" or more, if you do the "X" and "Y" axis'...this presents 
other issues of router bit reach and carriage attachment to the lead screw...i 
anticipate the necessity of simply having to use a blow gun while the machine 
is working...a pain in the ass for sure, but i have seen cnc machinery in 
action and it seems often enough that a blow gun is used to keep sawdust 
invasion down to a minimum...i guess in some instances it is a must...if you 
are standing there watching as you do the first twist, of let's say eight, on a 
workpiece, i do not see an issue of using a blow gun...plus my circumstances 
present other problems...i need two, 16ft pieces of rail...the only way to do 
that is to join sections together...welding extruded aluminum is not one of my 
welding skills, so the fact that this rail is steel is a big plus for me...i 
believe two sections of steel rail can be TIG welded together, filed and sanded 
down and there will be no "bump" as a carriage passes over it...i am also 
considering the fact of how much i use my legacy(and how much anyone else in 
the group uses their machine)...my machine can easily go a month or two with no 
use whatsoever(lately, business STINKS!)...realistically, if i had that much 
work, i would buy the cnc machine and call it a day...but to spend several 
thousand dollars to get even a higher end linear bearing set-up for my present 
machine does not seem logical and is not in my budget...anyway, appreciate the 
comment and would certainly welcome more,especially if it helps to solve a 
potential problem that i missed(THAT HAPPENS A LOT 
LATELY!...lol!)...thanks...joe

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:01:47 PM UTC-5, LILtwisted wrote:
  My greatest concern for this system is sawdust.  How do you intend to 
keep them clear?  Sawdust in them will be like a road block.  Cheap will be a 
disaster, spend the money you need to, to do it right the first time.  I would 
not use these unless you have a solution for the dust.  Look at open bearings 
instead

  Mike
  OK  

  On 12/17/2014 7:58 PM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote:

curtis, 
 took a look at that rail set up and unless anyone is 
considering a major re-design and rebuild of their legacy, i do not see it 
working well on a legacy...you need to build your own carriage and i did not 
see a way to adjust the bearings to eliminate play...my intention is to simply, 
and as cheaply as possible, modify the legacy...using the pbc rail and 
carriages, i think there will be just a

Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

here is the same PBC linear rail as it will mount onto the "X" axis legacy 
rail...as mentioned previously, the t-nuts are from mcmaster-carr and 
needed just a bit of filing on the bottom, outside edges and the top...it 
came with e 1/4-20 thread in the center...it virtually has no play between 
the two edges of the legacy rail...but if there is, a center punch divet 
into the t-nut and just a little bit of fine filing will get it down to a 
zero tolerance...the bottom of the linear rail is wide enough (5/8") to 
span across the open space on top of the legacy rail (3/8")...one concern i 
have is how parallel the legacy rails are...if they are not perfectly 
parallel, it might cause some issues when the "Z" axis carriage when it is 
traveling from one end of the bed to the other...will the carriage bog 
down? or will the legacy rails and bed just flex enough to allow the 
carriage to travel  freely, with perhaps a small bit of drag to it?...i 
expect that can only be determined when the entire set up is assembled and 
some free-hand test runs are done...and not sure you can shim the legacy 
rails to be parallel, with the expectation that they will stay that way...i 
might expect some of these issues to be there with any bearing and rail set 
up...if it shows up, you just have to deal with it i guess...joe

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 3:30:03 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> tim, and others,
>that is exactly the plan...to butt weld a series of 
> 22" lengths of the linear rail...attached are some photos of a butt welded 
> seam that i TIG welded together...in the second photo you can see two 
> "humps" which are penetrations from the outside weld...these are not in the 
> way of the linear slide carriage so no need to file them down...i might 
> even run a bead here on the inside for additional strength, but i don't 
> think it is needed...these rails are made from .100 thick material or 12 
> gauge...there is no chance of it distorting, especially when TIG welding it 
> together...i did three, 22" pieces(two butt welds) in a jig we put together 
> and it is straight on all planes and not twisted...for my machine, i need 
> to do 8 1/2 pieces with a total of 8 butt welds...i could buy a 16ft rail 
> in one piece(no welds), but even that will bow and twist just holding it 
> up...and any linear rail might do the same, i would imagine...but the 
> expense of shipping would be too great(not fortunate to have the company 
> two blocks from where i live this time!...LOL!)...i could buy two 8 ft. 
> pieces and ship UPS...but still need a butt weld...obviously better than 8 
> 1/2 pieces with 8 welds, but what the hell, i'll be saving money and 
> brushing up on my welding skills...and there is an expectation of the 
> legacy rail keeping everything straight and true, or at least helping to a 
> great degree to do just that...but if anyone else decided to do this mod on 
> their 1200 or 1000, logic dictates that they buy the length needed and not 
> deal with any welding...at $6.50 a foot from PBC, it is still a very good 
> deal...and, if when all is said and done, the 16 ft. rail is a bit on the 
> distorted side, i will simply break down and buy the two 8 footers...my 
> investment to this point is $100 and a small bit of time...not a lot to 
> lose to gain an education...thanks for the response and please keep'em 
> coming...joe
>
> On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 1:13:01 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
>>
>>  
>> Personally, I would not weld the pieces together.  I think the metal will 
>> distort.  I would try two sections butted together and test it out. 
>>  
>> -Tim
>>  
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> *From:* 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
>> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:51 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy
>>
>> update time...was able to purchase some of the railing i intend to use 
>> from ebay...great deal...worked out to be $2.50 a foot...will soon try 
>> welding two pieces together(they are 22" each...total of ten pieces 
>> purchased)...hopefully, no "bumps"...was a little concerned because i 
>> forgot(duh!), that the legacy railing is laid down on the "Y" axis...this 
>> presents a 7/8" wide opening and the need to redesign the attachment 
>> hardware...but the linear rail "nestles" into legacy rail quite nicely, to 
>> the point of self centering itself, if so desired...next, picked up a piece 
>> of 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat steel from mcmaster...this slides into the legacy 
>> rail...that space is 1 5/8" wide, the difference of 1/8" can be very 
>> helpful, as i plan on drilling and tapping 10-32 set screws into each side 
>> of the legacy rail so the set screws are aligned with the steel bar... in 
>> effect, you can lock in place and center/adjust the 1 1/2" steel bar within 
>> the limits of that 1/8" difference...will be helpful when setting up the 
>> linear rails and making sure that they are p

Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy

[Tim Krause]

I was going to add in my message that TIG welding would be your only chance, 
but I removed it from my message!  I don't like it one bit, but I'm waiting to 
hear how it turns out.

-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:30 PM
  Subject: Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy


  tim, and others,
 that is exactly the plan...to butt weld a series of 
22" lengths of the linear rail...attached are some photos of a butt welded seam 
that i TIG welded together...in the second photo you can see two "humps" which 
are penetrations from the outside weld...these are not in the way of the linear 
slide carriage so no need to file them down...i might even run a bead here on 
the inside for additional strength, but i don't think it is needed...these 
rails are made from .100 thick material or 12 gauge...there is no chance of it 
distorting, especially when TIG welding it together...i did three, 22" 
pieces(two butt welds) in a jig we put together and it is straight on all 
planes and not twisted...for my machine, i need to do 8 1/2 pieces with a total 
of 8 butt welds...i could buy a 16ft rail in one piece(no welds), but even that 
will bow and twist just holding it up...and any linear rail might do the same, 
i would imagine...but the expense of shipping would be too great(not fortunate 
to have the company two blocks from where i live this time!...LOL!)...i could 
buy two 8 ft. pieces and ship UPS...but still need a butt weld...obviously 
better than 8 1/2 pieces with 8 welds, but what the hell, i'll be saving money 
and brushing up on my welding skills...and there is an expectation of the 
legacy rail keeping everything straight and true, or at least helping to a 
great degree to do just that...but if anyone else decided to do this mod on 
their 1200 or 1000, logic dictates that they buy the length needed and not deal 
with any welding...at $6.50 a foot from PBC, it is still a very good 
deal...and, if when all is said and done, the 16 ft. rail is a bit on the 
distorted side, i will simply break down and buy the two 8 footers...my 
investment to this point is $100 and a small bit of time...not a lot to lose to 
gain an education...thanks for the response and please keep'em coming...joe

  On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 1:13:01 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
 
Personally, I would not weld the pieces together.  I think the metal will 
distort.  I would try two sections butted together and test it out. 

-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:51 AM
  Subject: Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy


  update time...was able to purchase some of the railing i intend to use 
from ebay...great deal...worked out to be $2.50 a foot...will soon try welding 
two pieces together(they are 22" each...total of ten pieces 
purchased)...hopefully, no "bumps"...was a little concerned because i 
forgot(duh!), that the legacy railing is laid down on the "Y" axis...this 
presents a 7/8" wide opening and the need to redesign the attachment 
hardware...but the linear rail "nestles" into legacy rail quite nicely, to the 
point of self centering itself, if so desired...next, picked up a piece of 1/8" 
X 1 1/2" flat steel from mcmaster...this slides into the legacy rail...that 
space is 1 5/8" wide, the difference of 1/8" can be very helpful, as i plan on 
drilling and tapping 10-32 set screws into each side of the legacy rail so the 
set screws are aligned with the steel bar... in effect, you can lock in place 
and center/adjust the 1 1/2" steel bar within the limits of that 1/8" 
difference...will be helpful when setting up the linear rails and making sure 
that they are parallel...there is a small gap between the bottom of the linear 
rail and the steel rail, so just need to drill and tap holes that line up with 
the pre-drilled holes on the linear rail and use the steel bar as a 
clamp...ordered one bearing carriage to try as a sample but have not gotten it 
yet...but so far, things seem to be going well...if welding the linear rails 
works out, there will be a big savings (about $150.00, in my case)...sorry for 
the poor photos...i need a camera that i can put a macro lens on...thanks...and 
as always, comments, suggestions and critiques are welcome...joe

  On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:45:22 AM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote: 
mike, 
excellent point and i have given it a good amount of 
thought...basically it boiled down to the design of the rail and 
carriage...from what i have researched, the type of rail and carriage that will 
have little to no sawdust issues has a very high mounting point...could be as 
much as a total of 3" or more, if you do the "X" and "Y" axis'...this presents 
other issues of router b

Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim,
 not sure what you don't like...TIG welding?...or the idea of welding 
these pieces end to end?...i understand there are other welding issues to 
contend with...the filler rod metal contracting and pulling pieces out of 
alignment. for instance...but the design of this track will not let this 
happen if you clamp the pieces in an alignment jig and do your tack welds 
on all sides...it really is all in the jig...the pre-drilled mounting holes 
in the track are every 3-plus inches, so when attached to the legacy rail, 
things will straighten themselves out quite a bit, if it is necessary...i 
have checked the tolerances of these 22" pieces of rail on my jointer bed, 
and to be honest there is a bit of misalignment on a few pieces(from the 
factory)...but it is very little and certainly within the confines of what 
to expect from a mod like this...the legacy machine was never intended to 
do wood milling work to such high tolerances...by the time any particular 
machine operation goes from the bearing/rail set up on the "X" axis, to the 
bearing/rail set up on the "Y" axis, to the set up on the "Z" axis,through 
the gear train(sometimes), into the router and down through the router bit, 
the expected tolerance level cannot be that high...now, i know they make 
equipment that does reach very high tolerances(i have seen them in action 
many times), but some of those machines are serious, six-figure 
machines...this mod's sole purpose is to make a nice piece of equipment 
just a little bit better for as little money as possible...can't expect it 
to do what legacy's cnc machinery can do...otherwise, as a businessman, 
logic says to simply buy a legacy cnc machine...anyway, always enjoy what 
you have to say, so please keep'em coming...many thanks...joe

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 6:17:42 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
>
>  
> I was going to add in my message that TIG welding would be your only 
> chance, but I removed it from my message!  I don't like it one bit, but I'm 
> waiting to hear how it turns out.
>  
> -Tim
>  
>
> - Original Message - 
> *From:* 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills  
> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy
>
> tim, and others, 
>that is exactly the plan...to butt weld a series of 
> 22" lengths of the linear rail...attached are some photos of a butt welded 
> seam that i TIG welded together...in the second photo you can see two 
> "humps" which are penetrations from the outside weld...these are not in the 
> way of the linear slide carriage so no need to file them down...i might 
> even run a bead here on the inside for additional strength, but i don't 
> think it is needed...these rails are made from .100 thick material or 12 
> gauge...there is no chance of it distorting, especially when TIG welding it 
> together...i did three, 22" pieces(two butt welds) in a jig we put together 
> and it is straight on all planes and not twisted...for my machine, i need 
> to do 8 1/2 pieces with a total of 8 butt welds...i could buy a 16ft rail 
> in one piece(no welds), but even that will bow and twist just holding it 
> up...and any linear rail might do the same, i would imagine...but the 
> expense of shipping would be too great(not fortunate to have the company 
> two blocks from where i live this time!...LOL!)...i could buy two 8 ft. 
> pieces and ship UPS...but still need a butt weld...obviously better than 8 
> 1/2 pieces with 8 welds, but what the hell, i'll be saving money and 
> brushing up on my welding skills...and there is an expectation of the 
> legacy rail keeping everything straight and true, or at least helping to a 
> great degree to do just that...but if anyone else decided to do this mod on 
> their 1200 or 1000, logic dictates that they buy the length needed and not 
> deal with any welding...at $6.50 a foot from PBC, it is still a very good 
> deal...and, if when all is said and done, the 16 ft. rail is a bit on the 
> distorted side, i will simply break down and buy the two 8 footers...my 
> investment to this point is $100 and a small bit of time...not a lot to 
> lose to gain an education...thanks for the response and please keep'em 
> coming...joe
>
> On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 1:13:01 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote: 
>>
>>  
>> Personally, I would not weld the pieces together.  I think the metal will 
>> distort.  I would try two sections butted together and test it out. 
>>  
>> -Tim
>>  
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> *From:* 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
>> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:51 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: linear bearing mod for a legacy
>>
>> update time...was able to purchase some of the railing i intend to use 
>> from ebay...great deal...worked out to be $2.50 a foot...will soon try 
>> welding two pieces together(they are 22" each...total of ten pieces 
>> purch

merry christmas

[Bill Bulkeley]

Well I’m a little ahead of you guys over there, its Christmas eve here so I’m 
getting in a little early for you all and I don’t care how politicly incorrect 
it is I’m an old fashioned boy

Merry Christmas to all in this group from down under and I hope we all keep 
going posting here for many many more and a very happy and prosperous new year 
for us all

Bill

 

.

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Re: merry christmas

[mwfoscue]

Bill,Merry Christmas to you and yours!  As well as to ALL members (active AND lurkers) of our Group.Also wishing a Happy, Healthy, Safe, AND Prosperous New Year as well!Mac-Original Message-
From: Bill Bulkeley 
Sent: Dec 23, 2014 11:04 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: merry christmas








 

 
  
 






Well I’m a little ahead of you guys over
there, its Christmas eve here so I’m getting in a little early for you all and
I don’t care how politicly incorrect it is I’m an old fashioned boy

Merry Christmas to all in this group from down
under and I hope we all keep going posting here for many many more and a very
happy and prosperous new year for us all

Bill

 

.









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Re: merry christmas

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

Merry Christmas to you as well
God Bless
Mike
OK
On 12/23/2014 10:04 PM, Bill Bulkeley wrote:


Well I’m a little ahead of you guys over there, its Christmas eve here 
so I’m getting in a little early for you all and I don’t care how 
politicly incorrect it is I’m an old fashioned boy


Merry Christmas to all in this group from down under and I hope we all 
keep going posting here for many many more and a very happy and 
prosperous new year for us all


Bill

.

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Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
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.
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legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
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Re: merry christmas

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

On 12/23/2014 10:49 PM, mwfos...@earthlink.net wrote:

Bill,

Merry Christmas to you and yours!
As well as to ALL members (active AND lurkers) of our Group.
Also wishing a Happy, Healthy, Safe, AND Prosperous New Year as well!

Mac



-Original Message-
From: Bill Bulkeley
Sent: Dec 23, 2014 11:04 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: merry christmas

Well I’m a little ahead of you guys over there, its Christmas eve
here so I’m getting in a little early for you all and I don’t care
how politicly incorrect it is I’m an old fashioned boy

Merry Christmas to all in this group from down under and I hope we
all keep going posting here for many many more and a very happy
and prosperous new year for us all

Bill

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