Re[2]: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
JLB Just getting back to you after reviewing your powerpoint presentation on MRINs...interesting how your thought process evolved. I may incorporate some of your ideas as I formulate my new computer filing strategy. I have been considering purchasing photoshop Elements software. Would you know the advantages of using photo mechanic software instead Elements? Understanding LTools, Geosetter and XnView and what they do is on my list. At this point, I don't have that many individual records and haven't had difficulty finding multimedia files. Also, if I am understanding correctly, what is your thinking about not linking any images to Legacy, or just 1 photo for an individual. It's interesting to hear that some others only link some images, but not everything, which makes sense. Do you link any census images at all? Or do you just enter the census data? Cathy -- Original Message -- From: JLB j...@jgen.ws To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Sent: 3/15/2013 9:00:57 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc. I like the sound of the one folder method too. Why complicate things? The only reason I can think of is that I want to make it understandable to my non-techie family and likely inheritors. And I also want to be able to easily find batches of specific files. Windows Explorer is a pretty sad excuse for search though. For instance if I search 'Harris' it will bring up everything keyword tagged Harris but also every folder with the name Harris in it and every location that has Harris in it. No subtlety there at all and it only recognizes a few of the many IPTC fields. And, being Windows, of course names them differently than the accepted standard. For tagging and searching, there's the free GeoSetter (location data and GPS as well as all the range of IPTC tags; keywords, captions, object name (where I put type of records) source, copyright and much more. http://www.geosetter.de/en/ Or XnView. http://www.xnview.com/ Photo Mechanic is also very good but costs about $150. http://www.camerabits.com/site/ Anything that does batch tagging and detailed search (all of the above-mentioned) is a real boon when you're dealing with thousands of files. Adobe does some gawd awful things with metadata which I've mostly forgotten now because I moved away from using it a long time ago. One thing I do remember is that it strips out all maker notes. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/15/2013 5:40 PM, Paul Gray wrote: Ron Walter, I think your approach (one big folder, use other tools to organize/find) is actually being touted by some as best practice. I use Adobe Photoshop to attach tags or keywords to all photos and documents, and then use its search functions to find them. However, you don't need a paid program like Photoshop, the free Windows Live Photo Gallery has similar capabilities. One advantage is that one can attach multiple tags/keywords/labels to photos. For example, I use one keyword 'gravestone' for all headstones/markers, and then add keywords for each of the surnames on that marker. Works equally well with group photos. I must admit I am in the process of doing this tagging, and I haven't yet actually been brave enough to move everything into one folder, but it is where I'm heading. Paul Gray Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
Photoshop Elements, IMO, is very good for editing photos. The Organizer (the other half) is very poor. In particular in regards to tagging. You can add keywords in the Organizer. And captions, I think. Everything else (locations, copyright, source, object name and all the other IPTC fields) can only be done one photo at a time through the File Info window accessible only through the Editor. It's quite a nonsensical arrangement. The mapping feature in the Organizer is also pathetic. There's no batch-mode either. I could go on for hours about how much I dislike it. I did use it many years ago and tried a couple of trials since then hoping it had been improved. It seemed to be the best there was until I found something better. And I was so relieved to find something better. Photo Mechanic, as well as GeoSetter and XnView can be used for adding metadata as well as other functions that differ from one to the other; the first two also handle GPS. GeoSetter is particularly good at that. None of them is an 'organizer' per se. In other words, you're working on the images wherever they already exist on your computer. Which is good because if you move them around or rename them you can still find them. (Another yuck point about APSE Organizer; it creates a linked catalog.) XnView and GeoSetter are both free. Photo Mechanic is a free trial. I would suggest trying all of them and having a look. Once you establish a work flow with them or one or two of them you'll find what you prefer. Try Photo Mechanic when you've got time to enjoy the trial. The others don't matter since you can have them forever. XnView also has a portable version if you're into PortableApps. http://portableapps.com/ About not linking files to Legacy - I did link them at one time. From where I started to where I am now I probably moved or renamed files about 20 times. By the time I got to 15,000 source citations with images attached, relinking them to Legacy had gotten really tedious. One day I knocked myself up the side of the head about my stupidity in that regard. The filing system I use now makes it really easy to access files anywhere and anytime in a variety of ways, generally quicker than I can click through to them inside Legacy. Linking files to Legacy seems to me a make-work project with zero benefits. I link individual pictures because I like to print them out in reports. But only one per person. If I really want to get serious with photos I can easily search them and create things outside Legacy like collage or focused PDFs. There are so many ways of being creative with images and I really don't see Legacy being the place for it. Of course, all data is extracted from each record and entered into Legacy and sourced. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/17/2013 4:55 PM, Sentz wrote: JLB Just getting back to you after reviewing your powerpoint presentation on MRINs...interesting how your thought process evolved. I may incorporate some of your ideas as I formulate my new computer filing strategy. I have been considering purchasing photoshop Elements software. Would you know the advantages of using photo mechanic software instead Elements? Understanding LTools, Geosetter and XnView and what they do is on my list. At this point, I don't have that many individual records and haven't had difficulty finding multimedia files. Also, if I am understanding correctly, what is your thinking about not linking any images to Legacy, or just 1 photo for an individual. It's interesting to hear that some others only link some images, but not everything, which makes sense. Do you link any census images at all? Or do you just enter the census data? Cathy Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
JLB, Although we all have our own opinions of various software programs, I must disagree with your assessment of Photoshop, at least version 10 and 11, the latest ones. The main thrust of this thread was around file structures for ease of finding various files from the masses of files we tend to accumulate. Tagging is another way of accomplishing the same thing. Photoshop allows tagging, including batch tagging, of photos. It also has great facial recognition and facial tagging, which does a pretty good job (yes, there is some manual work required) of tagging the people in photos. Then, one can find photos by any combination of keyword tags, and/or 'people tags'. In my view, it's an excellent organizer. Before rejecting it, I urge anyone considering Photoshop to download the free trial and see for yourself. Also, be patient, it is fairly complex to learn, the trick is to use just those small parts that you need for organization at the beginning and gradually get into more complex functions. I hope I'm not going to be ruled off topic, as Photoshop has been discussed in Webinars and Geoff's digital imaging book (I think), but it isn't really a Legacy add on. So, this thread may be stopped soon. Paul Gray -Original Message- From: JLB [mailto:j...@jgen.ws] Sent: March-17-13 6:39 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc. Photoshop Elements, IMO, is very good for editing photos. The Organizer (the other half) is very poor. In particular in regards to tagging. You can add keywords in the Organizer. And captions, I think. Everything else (locations, copyright, source, object name and all the other IPTC fields) can only be done one photo at a time through the File Info window accessible only through the Editor. It's quite a nonsensical arrangement. The mapping feature in the Organizer is also pathetic. There's no batch-mode either. I could go on for hours about how much I dislike it. I did use it many years ago and tried a couple of trials since then hoping it had been improved. It seemed to be the best there was until I found something better. And I was so relieved to find something better. Photo Mechanic, as well as GeoSetter and XnView can be used for adding metadata as well as other functions that differ from one to the other; the first two also handle GPS. GeoSetter is particularly good at that. None of them is an 'organizer' per se. In other words, you're working on the images wherever they already exist on your computer. Which is good because if you move them around or rename them you can still find them. (Another yuck point about APSE Organizer; it creates a linked catalog.) XnView and GeoSetter are both free. Photo Mechanic is a free trial. I would suggest trying all of them and having a look. Once you establish a work flow with them or one or two of them you'll find what you prefer. Try Photo Mechanic when you've got time to enjoy the trial. The others don't matter since you can have them forever. XnView also has a portable version if you're into PortableApps. http://portableapps.com/ About not linking files to Legacy - I did link them at one time. From where I started to where I am now I probably moved or renamed files about 20 times. By the time I got to 15,000 source citations with images attached, relinking them to Legacy had gotten really tedious. One day I knocked myself up the side of the head about my stupidity in that regard. The filing system I use now makes it really easy to access files anywhere and anytime in a variety of ways, generally quicker than I can click through to them inside Legacy. Linking files to Legacy seems to me a make-work project with zero benefits. I link individual pictures because I like to print them out in reports. But only one per person. If I really want to get serious with photos I can easily search them and create things outside Legacy like collage or focused PDFs. There are so many ways of being creative with images and I really don't see Legacy being the place for it. Of course, all data is extracted from each record and entered into Legacy and sourced. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/17/2013 4:55 PM, Sentz wrote: JLB Just getting back to you after reviewing your powerpoint presentation on MRINs...interesting how your thought process evolved. I may incorporate some of your ideas as I formulate my new computer filing strategy. I have been considering purchasing photoshop Elements software. Would you know the advantages of using photo mechanic software instead Elements? Understanding LTools, Geosetter and XnView and what they do is on my list. At this point, I don't have that many individual records and haven't had difficulty finding multimedia files. Also, if I am understanding correctly, what is your thinking about not linking any images to
Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
People often ask on this list about photo organization and linking files to Legacy. Since my file organization is heavily dependent on tagging I consider this subject relevant. Others' mileage may vary. Yes, it's possible to keyword tag in bulk with APSE Organizer. However, keywords are only one of many tagging options. Even Adobe knows that. But they make all those other fields only accessible through the Editor one photo at a time. (Unless they've FINALLY changed that in versions 10 or 11. The last one I looked at was version 9.) I also use the following fields quite regularly: caption writer, object name, city, location, state, country, photographer, credit, source, copyright, copyright URL and Contact Address and GPS. I stand by my assessment. I think APSE Organizer a terrible option for tagging genealogy files. I know Geoff Rasmussen has recommended it in his webinars and even wrote a book about it. But I don't consider Geoff my go-to person for photo information. I simply think he's wrong in some respects. And this is one of them. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/17/2013 6:54 PM, Paul Gray wrote: JLB, Although we all have our own opinions of various software programs, I must disagree with your assessment of Photoshop, at least version 10 and 11, the latest ones. The main thrust of this thread was around file structures for ease of finding various files from the masses of files we tend to accumulate. Tagging is another way of accomplishing the same thing. Photoshop allows tagging, including batch tagging, of photos. It also has great facial recognition and facial tagging, which does a pretty good job (yes, there is some manual work required) of tagging the people in photos. Then, one can find photos by any combination of keyword tags, and/or 'people tags'. In my view, it's an excellent organizer. Before rejecting it, I urge anyone considering Photoshop to download the free trial and see for yourself. Also, be patient, it is fairly complex to learn, the trick is to use just those small parts that you need for organization at the beginning and gradually get into more complex functions. I hope I'm not going to be ruled off topic, as Photoshop has been discussed in Webinars and Geoff's digital imaging book (I think), but it isn't really a Legacy add on. So, this thread may be stopped soon. Paul Gray Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
For those of use who dont have the funds for programs like Photoshop, OR really dont want to have to learn a fairly complex program, I suggest two alternatives. For tagging and straightening and adding text to images, Picasa works very well for these tasks. If you have any version of Microsoft office, then you can use the ultra simple Microsoft Office Picture manager for cropping (Right click any image and open withOffice Picture Manager) And it is fantastic for resizing as it has two 'standard settings which work very well to automatically downsize AND compress the images. I use the standard 'document' re-size for larger family photos and document records, census, etc. Then the standard 'web' re-size is great for indiv photos and tombstone images. And I also recently started using the free Irfanview, I have lots of documents that are two or three images, where Irfanview has a 'create panorama' photo which is excellent for these multiple images that combines them into one single image. Either vertically or horizontally. (ImageCreate Panorama Image) Just my own way of doing things. Jay On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM, JLB j...@jgen.ws wrote: People often ask on this list about photo organization and linking files to Legacy. Since my file organization is heavily dependent on tagging I consider this subject relevant. Others' mileage may vary. Yes, it's possible to keyword tag in bulk with APSE Organizer. However, keywords are only one of many tagging options. Even Adobe knows that. But they make all those other fields only accessible through the Editor one photo at a time. (Unless they've FINALLY changed that in versions 10 or 11. The last one I looked at was version 9.) I also use the following fields quite regularly: caption writer, object name, city, location, state, country, photographer, credit, source, copyright, copyright URL and Contact Address and GPS. I stand by my assessment. I think APSE Organizer a terrible option for tagging genealogy files. I know Geoff Rasmussen has recommended it in his webinars and even wrote a book about it. But I don't consider Geoff my go-to person for photo information. I simply think he's wrong in some respects. And this is one of them. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/17/2013 6:54 PM, Paul Gray wrote: JLB, Although we all have our own opinions of various software programs, I must disagree with your assessment of Photoshop, at least version 10 and 11, the latest ones. The main thrust of this thread was around file structures for ease of finding various files from the masses of files we tend to accumulate. Tagging is another way of accomplishing the same thing. Photoshop allows tagging, including batch tagging, of photos. It also has great facial recognition and facial tagging, which does a pretty good job (yes, there is some manual work required) of tagging the people in photos. Then, one can find photos by any combination of keyword tags, and/or 'people tags'. In my view, it's an excellent organizer. Before rejecting it, I urge anyone considering Photoshop to download the free trial and see for yourself. Also, be patient, it is fairly complex to learn, the trick is to use just those small parts that you need for organization at the beginning and gradually get into more complex functions. I hope I'm not going to be ruled off topic, as Photoshop has been discussed in Webinars and Geoff's digital imaging book (I think), but it isn't really a Legacy add on. So, this thread may be stopped soon. Paul Gray Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
Photos 'should' be scanned as TIFFs. Picasa does not tag TIFFs. It 'acts' like it does but if you open any self-respecting photo software you will find that the tags do not carry through. Picasa (i.e. Google) is only interested in collecting as much personal information as they can get their hands on, therefore they're only interested in the JPGs that come off digital cameras nowadays. They're not interested in dead people, i.e. TIFFs. If you have no money, XnView and GeoSetter will cover all tagging, GPS and simple editing functions. If you want to restore photos you may have to spring for Adobe Elements anyway. The editor is actually worth the price, about $100. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/17/2013 7:29 PM, Jay 1FamilyTree wrote: For those of use who dont have the funds for programs like Photoshop, OR really dont want to have to learn a fairly complex program, I suggest two alternatives. For tagging and straightening and adding text to images, Picasa works very well for these tasks. If you have any version of Microsoft office, then you can use the ultra simple Microsoft Office Picture manager for cropping (Right click any image and open withOffice Picture Manager) And it is fantastic for resizing as it has two 'standard settings which work very well to automatically downsize AND compress the images. I use the standard 'document' re-size for larger family photos and document records, census, etc. Then the standard 'web' re-size is great for indiv photos and tombstone images. And I also recently started using the free Irfanview, I have lots of documents that are two or three images, where Irfanview has a 'create panorama' photo which is excellent for these multiple images that combines them into one single image. Either vertically or horizontally. (ImageCreate Panorama Image) Just my own way of doing things. Jay Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: Re[2]: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc.
Just dumped using Photoshop Elements 11. While Elements has many nice bells and whistles, I decided to use Picasa and I love it. When you tag people in Elements, it does not display tags individually as you will find in Facebook. Rather all tags are displayed at the same time and many overlap each other. Picasa displays one tag at a time. Secondly, I have one folder that I have my photos from which I link Legacy to. If for some reason you have to restore files, it will create a new file and the pics will be linked to the new file. If you try to import your working file, you will see many duplicates. In my file, I have over 10,000 pictures. I really didn't have time for Element's foolishness. Morris From: Sentz ro...@nycap.rr.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:55 PM Subject: Re[2]: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc. JLB Just getting back to you after reviewing your powerpoint presentation on MRINs...interesting how your thought process evolved. I may incorporate some of your ideas as I formulate my new computer filing strategy. I have been considering purchasing photoshop Elements software. Would you know the advantages of using photo mechanic software instead Elements? Understanding LTools, Geosetter and XnView and what they do is on my list. At this point, I don't have that many individual records and haven't had difficulty finding multimedia files. Also, if I am understanding correctly, what is your thinking about not linking any images to Legacy, or just 1 photo for an individual. It's interesting to hear that some others only link some images, but not everything, which makes sense. Do you link any census images at all? Or do you just enter the census data? Cathy -- Original Message -- From: JLB j...@jgen.ws To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Sent: 3/15/2013 9:00:57 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Organization of Photos, Scanned Documents and etc. I like the sound of the one folder method too. Why complicate things? The only reason I can think of is that I want to make it understandable to my non-techie family and likely inheritors. And I also want to be able to easily find batches of specific files. Windows Explorer is a pretty sad excuse for search though. For instance if I search 'Harris' it will bring up everything keyword tagged Harris but also every folder with the name Harris in it and every location that has Harris in it. No subtlety there at all and it only recognizes a few of the many IPTC fields. And, being Windows, of course names them differently than the accepted standard. For tagging and searching, there's the free GeoSetter (location data and GPS as well as all the range of IPTC tags; keywords, captions, object name (where I put type of records) source, copyright and much more. http://www.geosetter.de/en/ Or XnView. http://www.xnview.com/ Photo Mechanic is also very good but costs about $150. http://www.camerabits.com/site/ Anything that does batch tagging and detailed search (all of the above-mentioned) is a real boon when you're dealing with thousands of files. Adobe does some gawd awful things with metadata which I've mostly forgotten now because I moved away from using it a long time ago. One thing I do remember is that it strips out all maker notes. - JL Beeken JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists http://jlog.jgen.ws/ On 3/15/2013 5:40 PM, Paul Gray wrote: Ron Walter, I think your approach (one big folder, use other tools to organize/find) is actually being touted by some as best practice. I use Adobe Photoshop to attach tags or keywords to all photos and documents, and then use its search functions to find them. However, you don't need a paid program like Photoshop, the free Windows Live Photo Gallery has similar capabilities. One advantage is that one can attach multiple tags/keywords/labels to photos. For example, I use one keyword 'gravestone' for all headstones/markers, and then add keywords for each of the surnames on that marker. Works equally well with group photos. I must admit I am in the process of doing this tagging, and I haven't yet actually been brave enough to move everything into one folder, but it is where I'm heading. Paul Gray Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived
