Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi,

> Have there been many projects/companies which improved TIGER and
> released the results as PD?

None that I know of; I suppose they have all spent a lot of money to  
be able to process and improve TIGER and they probably want to recoup  
that investment through proprietary licensing.

Is it relevant to us?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"




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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Gervase Markham
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> None that I know of; I suppose they have all spent a lot of money to  
> be able to process and improve TIGER and they probably want to recoup  
> that investment through proprietary licensing.
> 
> Is it relevant to us?

Surely it's highly relevant to your assertion that we would build a 
strong community around OSM if it was PD? The fact that none has formed 
around an existing large body of geodata ripe for improvement doesn't 
help your case.

Gerv

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Christopher Schmidt
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:03:20PM +0100, Gervase Markham wrote:
> Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > None that I know of; I suppose they have all spent a lot of money to  
> > be able to process and improve TIGER and they probably want to recoup  
> > that investment through proprietary licensing.
> > 
> > Is it relevant to us?
> 
> Surely it's highly relevant to your assertion that we would build a 
> strong community around OSM if it was PD? The fact that none has formed 
> around an existing large body of geodata ripe for improvement doesn't 
> help your case.

Perhaps this is true for TIGER, but it seems to me that geonames.org is
exactly the opposite: a public domain dataset (vmap0) has been
embraced/extended into (in some cases) dozens or more languages per
place name, and many many corrections to data.

Regards,
-- 
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi,

> > Is it relevant to us?
> 
> Surely it's highly relevant to your assertion that we would build a 
> strong community around OSM if it was PD?

I thought OJW was not talking about communities but about corporations.
Which generally have a bad track record of working for free (perhaps
because they have no 'spare time'?)

> The fact that none has formed around an existing large body of
> geodata ripe for improvement doesn't help your case.

I suspect there will be many existing large bodies of geodata without
a community, and as many with one, and the reasons behind that very
diverse. Thankfully crschmidt has pointed out an example that "doesn't
help your case".

As regards TIGER specifically, my belief is that no community has
formed around that because what you get in PD is not the "master
database" but just something compiled by the government, and they have
promised periodic re-issues of updated information. Whatever changes
your community makes, they will not be contained in the next
government release, and you either have to "fork off" and ignore them,
or forever try and try to filter out the "new stuff" from the next
release and merge that with what you have.

I think that if the data had been not "published" PD but actually
"disowned" by the government (as in: this is what we have and we're
not going to work with this any more) then the situation would have
been wholly different.

But that's pure speculation - as is the idea that no community has
formed because it was PD rather than copyleft.

Bye
Frederik

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Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Gervase Markham
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> As regards TIGER specifically, my belief is that no community has
> formed around that because what you get in PD is not the "master
> database" but just something compiled by the government, and they have
> promised periodic re-issues of updated information. Whatever changes
> your community makes, they will not be contained in the next
> government release, and you either have to "fork off" and ignore them,
> or forever try and try to filter out the "new stuff" from the next
> release and merge that with what you have.
> 
> I think that if the data had been not "published" PD but actually
> "disowned" by the government (as in: this is what we have and we're
> not going to work with this any more) then the situation would have
> been wholly different.

You think it's more likely that a community would form if there were no 
updates than if there were some updates? That seems counter-intuitive to me.

Gerv

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Users whose contributions are in the public domain

2008-05-13 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi,

> > I think that if the data had been not "published" PD but actually
> > "disowned" by the government (as in: this is what we have and we're
> > not going to work with this any more) then the situation would have
> > been wholly different.
> 
> You think it's more likely that a community would form if there were
> no updates than if there were some updates? That seems
> counter-intuitive to me.

Why should a community gather around a data set that it still actively
maintained by someone else who isn't even asking for help? That would
seem counter-intuitive to me but I'm really unwilling to discuss stuff
that is hypothetical on so many levels - it doesn't help.

Bye
Frederik

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Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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