Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
On 19 Sep 2009, at 04:38, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500, tele...@hushmail.com wrote: My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the splash screen and about box. I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of the map view. I imagine a little osm.org in the corner similar to Google's attribution would work for that format. That seems to be a good idea. We have a trade-marked logo - possibly that would be useful. I know it isn't a URL but might be more identifiable and 'reasonable' for the medium. Mention on the website associated with a program is another option that has been proposed. We do have this situation described as a 'use case' for the new license and the recommendation against the use case is to create a community guideline for it - possibly we have just done so! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_Licence/Use_Cases I certainly don't see anyone who makes and effort and does something reasonable in the circumstances getting criticised. Regards, Peter ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
On 9/19/09, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: On 19 Sep 2009, at 04:38, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500, tele...@hushmail.com wrote: My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the splash screen and about box. I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of the map view. I imagine a little osm.org in the corner similar to Google's attribution would work for that format. That seems to be a good idea. We have a trade-marked logo - possibly that would be useful. I know it isn't a URL but might be more identifiable and 'reasonable' for the medium. Mention on the website associated with a program is another option that has been proposed. We do have this situation described as a 'use case' for the new license and the recommendation against the use case is to create a community guideline for it - possibly we have just done so! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_Licence/Use_Cases I certainly don't see anyone who makes and effort and does something reasonable in the circumstances getting criticised. i agree - if the ODbL is accepted as the new license, that could clear up a lot of the worries about what the correct attribution is. cheers, matt ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500, tele...@hushmail.com wrote: My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the splash screen and about box. I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of the map view. I imagine a little osm.org in the corner similar to Google's attribution would work for that format. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
Hi, tele...@hushmail.com wrote: My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? We had a huge discussion about this 2.5 years ago but not a lot has changed since, so you might want to read the thread with the misleading subject OSM Layer into Adobe Illustrator, http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-February/011537.html where a guy from a TV broadcaster inquired about using the Baghdad map on-air. It all boils down to paragraph 4c of the CC-BY-SA license which says: You must keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and give the Original Author credit reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing... The problem is, or at least was for that particular request 2.5 years ago, that nobody in OSM can give you a definitive and legally binding answer what exactly reasonable to the medium or means is. I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium) but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end. Anyway, I want to do what is right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the splash screen and about box. For *you* it is sufficient to tell your clients - in a manner reasonable to your medium, i.e. computer software - that you're using OSM data and that this comes under the license CC-BY-SA 2.0. That's all that is legally required from you. The fact that the data is CC-BY-SA then means that your customers, when using the data, must also acknowledge the source and specify the license; this, however, is not your responsibility but theirs. Of course if you are interested in a healthy long-term relationship with your customers you should advise them accordingly, lest they get a bollocking from angry OSM contributors (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution) and then complain to you about not having been informed. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
Hi, Frederik Ramm schrieb: where a guy from a TV broadcaster inquired about using the Baghdad map on-air. That guy was me :-) We never used the map in the end - we're a news broadcaster so didn't have time to thrash through the legalities on that day. I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium) but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end. As a further datum point, the map generation system we use at the moment, Curious maps from Viz systems (http://www.vizrt.com/products/article231.ece) is pretty standard in broadcasting, and uses datasets from a variety of sources, public domain and private. USGS and NASA for long range views, Microsoft Virtual Earth for close-ups. In this case, the Virtual Earth logo is displayed reasonably prominently onscreen, overlaying the graphics, rather than in the credits at the end of the program. Nobody seems bothered about that as a requirement. ie, it doesn't annoy anybody, so it seems fair to expect similar prominence for OSM data. Although it's just occurred to me that Microsoft license their data from someone else (TeleAtlas?) so I'm surprised they get the onscreen credit, rather than the original supplier. Regards Phillip PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
2009/9/17 Barnett, Phillip phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk Although it's just occurred to me that Microsoft license their data from someone else (TeleAtlas?) so I'm surprised they get the onscreen credit, rather than the original supplier. Navteq for Microsoft. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attribution of data for use on TV
On 9/17/09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, tele...@hushmail.com wrote: My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium) but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end. +1 i agree - the method of attribution can be whatever the standard method of attribution is for the medium. of course, we'd all like to see the OSM logo displayed prominently on the screen, but it should be an advantage of using OSM data that you don't have to give free advertising to TA/NT/MS/GG ;-) cheers, matt ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
