Re: [L-I] DHKC response to Holberg and Jones
En relación a [L-I] DHKC response to Holberg and Jones, el 4 Sep 00, a las 1:01, dhkc dijo: In their postings, both A. Holberg and Owen Jones make a number of statements. Since it provides an opportunity to expound DHKP-C views, here is our response to them. Both of them deny that Turkey is fascist. There is the MHP (Nationalist Movement Party). This party is a member of the current governing coalition in Turkey. Would it help if we mentioned that the ... There is at least another member of this list who is Turkish, but she is currently off the air. As a moderator, I am convinced that a debate between the DHKC comrades, Mine Aysen Doyran, Johannes and Anton will bring about the most interesting results for all of us. There are no unimportant countries or peoples, and everyone's steps ahead in our struggle are worthy, but Turkey is obviously placed in a highly explosive area, and its social and political peculiarities have been little debated here. So that as moderator I look forward to the debate between these four list members. Néstor Gorojovsky Co-moderador Lista Leninist-International [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
[L-I] Stratfor on UN General Assembly
[Please ignore the title... it has *some* intersting info.- Macdonald] Missing From New York: America's Influence 5 September 2000 Summary This week in New York, leaders from across the globe gather. But the most telling details are not in New York - but in the myriad meetings that have unfolded in different corners of the world in recent days. Increasingly, world leaders are trying to find ways to work around Washington as U.S. foreign policy increasingly drifts. The only thing missing from New York, it seems, will be the presence of the United States. Analysis An extraordinary gathering of world leaders takes place in New York this week, at what has been called a millennial town meeting, to help mark the opening of the next General Assembly of the United Nations. But the real significance is found not in the photo opportunities or the speeches - but in the run-up to the summit itself. A wave of significant meetings has built across the globe as major world leaders slowly make their way to New York. These dialogues indicate the importance of contacts at the regional levels, in working out problems that Washington once sought to influence. These dialogues, however, suggest that much of the world is tuning Washington out. In the last few days, there has been a flurry of bilateral contact. Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Japan, the Israeli foreign minister visited Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, more than a dozen African leaders met in Libya, South American leaders attended a summit in Brazil, and the Yugoslav foreign minister dropped in on Fidel Castro in Havana. Each of these is interesting in itself. Putin showed the Japanese that he did not intend to be flexible on returning the Kuril Islands, taken by Moscow in 1945. The meeting between the Israelis and Egyptians suggest that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is trying to broker a deal over Jerusalem. The gathering in Libya indicates the continued and growing influence of Libya in sub- Saharan Africa. South American leaders are focused on the continuing crisis in Colombia. The Havana gathering indicates that Belgrade is trying to break out of its diplomatic isolation, while the Castro government delights in irritating Washington. But the most striking theme is the absence of any overriding, globally significant themes. In part, this is good news. Riveting, overarching issues tend to indicate crises of global proportions. When the world's leaders gathered at the United Nations in 1960, for example, there were overarching issues-namely the threat of a global war involving the United States and Soviet Union. But there is a pattern. Consider the meeting in Cairo. The failed Camp David talks left Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat strengthened against hard-liners who wanted to reject a formal agreement anyway, while weakening Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Barak's claim to power is partly rooted in his close relations with the United States. But the Clinton administration chose to put him in the position of blowing up his ties with Washington - or his coalition back home. Barak's foreign minister went to Cairo to search for an unlikely way out. In Libya, the summit represents a new high point for Moammar Gadhafi, who has been assiduously building his influence in sub- Saharan Africa. In spite of a generation-old attempt to isolate him, American policy in Africa - despite sporadic interventions and periodic visits by President Clinton - has not stemmed the Libyan leader's influence. Similarly, neither Cuban President Fidel Castro nor the regime in Belgrade is deterred from exploring common interests. Significantly, the summit in Brazil has focused on an American concern: Colombia. There is an underlying theme here, expressed at the Latin American summit, a fear that U.S. policy in Colombia might lead to an explosion that could spread to neighboring countries. Like the gathering between leaders of North and South Korea on the far side of the globe, these gatherings are as much about taking control away as much as working with the United States. While there is no common text to these, there is a common subtext. These dialogues are taking place at the regional level either because American actions have created unintended consequences that others are scrambling to contain, or because the United States has allowed situations to drift without control. In fact, there is an overarching theme: the global attempt, taken by different actors in different ways, to manage around the Americans, instead of letting the Americans manage the world. The United States is the center of gravity of the international system. But that is not to say that Washington is in control of the system. American power - political, economic and political - has become enormous. At the same time, American behavior has become both insular and unpredictable. The vibrancy of the economy has created a sense that what happens outside of U.S. borders is of little consequence.
[L-I] DHKC Belgium on Hugo Coveliers
THE NEW VOICE OF TURKEY’S FASCISM IN BELGIUM: HUGO COVELIERS Hugo Coveliers Recently he went to Turkey in the company of a parliamentary delegation. He was warmly received by Turkey’s murderers and torturers. He was in fact the guest of honour at a sumptuous reception given by the well-known Sabanci. And since then Coveliers has become a bitter enemy of Fehriye Erdal. In the meantime, Fehriye had gone on hunger strike. He freedom depended on her only weapon: her body. In fact, she was in great danger. At the height of this hunger strike, Coveliers said, “If she wants to commit suicide by blackmailing Belgium, that’s her problem.” In this Belgium of the year 2000, the remarks of this fine individual betray something of a backward mentality, not to say mediaeval. In fact, just who is Mr. Coveliers? His started running his political marathon in the ranks of the liberal party VU. At that time, he supported the struggle by Basque and Irish independence supporters against being extradited! Then he carried on his career in the VLD, leaving behind such youthful follies. Today, according to him, it is necessary to hand Fehriye over to the torture centres or deliver her up to the scaffold because “we are being put in an embarrassing position with regard to Turkey”. Hugo Coveliers is thus prosecutor, judge and executioner, all at the same time. He knows nothing of Sabanci’s record. But he is working furiously to have Fehriye sent back to Turkey to be judged. He justifies this by saying that if she is innocent she can prove it in court. Which happens to be impossible because there is no justice in Turkey. There is no impartial system of justice and even the judiciary in Turkey have acknowledged this. Moreover, the European Court of Human Rights has condemned Turkey on numerous occasions. Coveliers proposes having her judged in Belgium according to the charges on her file in Turkey if she cannot be extradited there. In Turkey, Fehriye is accused under Article 146 of the Turkish Penal Code. In other words, she is accused of subverting the Constitution. The punishment is death. Does such an article exist under Belgian law? Are those opposed to Belgium also to be subjected to the death penalty? Opposing the constitution is a political crime and there is no equivalent charge under Belgian law. But note that Coveliers is also playing the role of judge, convinced that Fehriye took part in the killing of three people in Turkey. Coveliers is fantasising, not only because she did not play the slightest role in the attack and there is not the least proof of her alleged participation. Coveliers decides that it is a matter for “extra-judicial execution” and in the following scenario he will play the role of executioner. Despite being a lawyer he is negating the principle that somebody is innocent until guilt is proved. Coveliers even goes so far as to react in an unrestrained way to the Belgian Justice Ministry decision that “Fehriye cannot be judged in Turkey”; he said, “It’s not the Justice Ministry but the judge who should decide.” The journalist who was interviewing him said, “And if the judge should reach a similar decision?” Then Coveliers, gripped by enthusiasm, said: “Then it will be necessary to change the laws and institute the required judicial reforms.” Then he really let the cat out of the bag: “A communist girl assassinates three industrialists for being capitalists and we’re not supposed to do anything about it.” This remark gave away the rabid anti-communism that motivates him, a sentiment which outdoes that of his fascist counterparts and the reactionaries from the Cold War period. WE WILL REPEAT OUR QUESTION, MONSIEUR COVELIERS: “WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH FEHRIYE?” M. Coveliers, politics are motivated by thoughts. The faculty of reflection and systematising thought is a characteristic of human beings which distinguishes them from other living things. To put it more strongly, the capacity to engage in politics is a human characteristic. However, politics are determined by virtuous principles, opinions, or sometimes, as in your own case, by your personal interests. So what has changed about the world is that you have changed your beliefs. Have you not changed your opinions because your personal interests have triumphed over your principles? And then, according to you, present-day Turkey has evolved to the point where human rights are more respected than they were in Spain or England three or five years ago, to the point where torture is outdated, massacres are forgotten, fascism has been abolished and we are about to be provided with a shining example of a democratic system. What has changed, M. Coveliers? Permit us to tell you this. In Turkey, nothing has changed. Prisoners are still beaten to death with truncheons and clubs. The slaughter at Ulucanlar (Ankara) which took place less than a year ago and cost the lives of 10 revolutionaries, remains e
Re: [L-I] who are you, A Wosni?
Okay,excuse meno more of this stuff A.H. Macdonald Stainsby schrieb: > > > Why do you ask, do you want to send a hit-squad with an icepickle? > > Let us not go down this road, PLEASE. > > Thank you, > > Macdonald > > > ___ > Leninist-International mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] who are you, A Wosni?
En relación a [L-I] who are you, A Wosni?, el 3 Sep 00, a las 5:29, Tabe Kooistra dijo: > Who are you [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A.Wosni)? > > Tabe OK. I, as a moderator, am simply fed up. I have been silent while this small fire developed. Now I will say my first and last word. Smoke is risking to become a serious nuisance. I hoped this stupid name calling would end soon, it did not. So that allow me to state, once and for ever and ever and ever, that I want all name calling, mud slinging, throat cutting and perverted behaviour to finish on L-I at once and for all, right now, and for good, before it becomes a forest fire. Otherwise said: This moderator will not (REPEAT not) accept a single _ad hominem_ attack such as the above (and others that have recently appeared on L-I) from either God Almighty, Vladimir Ilitch himself ressurect, or from anybody else, particularly usual list members. Will defend this list from such kind of attitudes because most of us here want it safe and sane. Next comrade who indulges in any of these foul practices will be duly cyberkicked in the appropiate parcel of her / his egregious bodily constitution with the amount of strength necessary to have her / him outside of L-I and in orbit around planet Saturn. I will take care myself that launching is properly done and a long season of astronautic adventure brings her / him back to senses. Once this simple operation performed, and upon duly addressed request, the said comrade will be most probably readmitted here. But this will also most probably be a painful process at the end of which the request may eventually be approved by the team of acting moderators as a collective decission. Comrades who want to sling mud or more repugnant materials at each other can do so in private. I do not mind. But I will keep L-I safe. This is what list members expect. And they will get it. Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky Angry and fed up co-moderator, Leninist-International mailing list. NOTE: Whoever does not think that what I am doing on this posting is the duty of a moderator, please offer a name to replace me. I am getting sick with all this childish nonsense, and will not get along with it for any other single day. Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] Moderator's Note: re: Turkey. DHKC - Jones.y
En relación a Re: [L-I] Moderator's Note: re: Turkey. DHKC - Jo, el 3 Sep 00, a las 5:53, Tabe Kooistra dijo: > On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 05:58:56PM -0700, Macdonald Stainsby wrote: > > This kind of name calling will stop NOW, or your participation in the > list > > If this guy stays, count me out Both can stay provided both behave. Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] who are you, A Wosni?
> Why do you ask, do you want to send a hit-squad with an icepickle? Let us not go down this road, PLEASE. Thank you, Macdonald ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
[L-I] KCNA: Strengthened solidarity with world people called for
Strengthened solidarity with world people called for Pyongyang, September 3 (KCNA) -- The calls of the central committee of the Workers' Party of Korea published in the run-up to its 55th anniversary expressed support and solidarity of the WPK and the DPRK government with the people in their struggle to defend national independence and sovereignty against exploitation and oppression by capital. Saying that solidarity and unity are essentially required by the people's struggle for independence, Rodong Sinmun today in a signed article calls on the progressive forces to unite, support and solidarize with each other in the struggle to build a new world. The imperialists and the reactionaries have talked a lot about the "end of socialism," describing it as the failure of the people's cause of independence, since the collapse of socialism in some East European countries, but the people's aspiration and call for independence are growing stronger than ever before. This is evidenced by the ever-expanding and developing cause of independence including struggles for achieving class emancipation, national independence and the cause of national liberation, the struggle against imperialism and dominationism and all sorts of domination, subjugation and interference and the struggle for destroying the unfair international order and establishing a fair and equitable one, the article notes, and continues: The popular masses should unite, support and solidarize with each other in order to steadily intensify such struggles. It is the most effective strategy for the world people advocating independence to counter the imperialists' moves for split and alienation and their divide-and-rule tactics with the strategy of unity and solidarity. herein lies a sure guarantee for realizing global independence. The Korean people will as always remain faithful to their sacred international commitments and further strengthen unity and solidarity with the people struggling to defend independence, the article concludes. Macdonald Stainsby. Rad-Green List: Radical anti-capitalist environmental discussion. http://www.egroups.com/group/rad-green [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.geocities.com/leninist_international/ http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] who are you, A Wosni?
Why do you ask, do you want to send a hit-squad with an icepickle? No matter who I am what should count is whether what I say is right or wrong. Yet let me tell you: I've been active with various Turkish and Kurdish forces in the past (among them PKK), and I've been a Stalinist populist like you are for a couple of decades and thus had illusions e.g. in the PKK, albeit illusions which I lost about six seven years ago. I also know the history of THKP-C,Dev Sol and - to a lesser extent of DHKP, and therefore I know that from their origins they have nothing to do with the workers movement but with the radicalized Dev Genc-students movement (ML-turned leftwing Kemalists). As I said before, I admire the heroism of their members starting with Mahir Cayan, but I don't regard this current as Marxist but as populist (Narodniki), and I don't of course like the violent ideological and military measures you employ against critics. That's all.(apart from the question: Who are you? - not serious!) A.H. Tabe Kooistra schrieb: > Who are you [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A.Wosni)? > > Tabe > > -- > Press Agency Ozgurluk > In Support of the Peoples Liberation Struggle in Turkey and Kurdistan > http://www.ozgurluk.org > DHKC: http://www.ozgurluk.org/dhkc > > ___ > Leninist-International mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] DHKC response to Holberg and Jones
dhkc schrieb:
> In their postings, both A. Holberg and Owen Jones make a number of
> statements. Since it provides an opportunity to expound DHKP-C views, here
> is our response to them.
>
> Both of them deny that Turkey is fascist. There is the MHP (Nationalist
> Movement Party). This party is a member of the current governing coalition
> in Turkey. Would it help if we mentioned that the alternative name of this
> party is the "Grey Wolves"? The MHP seeks a Greater Turkey stretching over
> 1,000 miles from present-day Turkey all the way to the plains of Central
> Asia where "the Turkish race" began. Even before it joined the governing
> coalition, the ranks of police, gendarmerie, special anti-guerrilla teams,
> senior civil servants, army officers and so on were filled with MHP members
> and sympathisers, or sympathisers of other fascist groups like the BBP
> (Great Unity Party) or the Ulku Ocaklari (Idealist Hearths). Our comrades
> confront fascism in the streets, in police interrogation rooms and in the
> prisons (when an attack on left-wing prisoners is planned, and at present
> there are more than 1,000 DHKP-C prisoners in Turkey's jails, the normal
> prison guards are often taken away and replaced with others who try to
> provoke the prisoners by giving the fascist salute).
[nobody ever denied that the MHP is a fascist party and that fascists are
much too numerous in Turkey.Furthermore nobody denies that the way the
reporessive organs of the state deal with all sorts of opponents is identical to
the way fascists do, and many of the police etc. in Turkey are of course
fascists. This however doesn't make the state a fascist state, I think.A fascist
state according to the definition I employ is a totalitarian
bourgeois dictatorship based on a violent mass movement of the fascist ruling
party used to smash not only the revolutionaries but the workers movement as a
whole. In a fascist country there are no other legal parties, there are no trade
unions (even of the most reformist kind). In a fascist country a party such as
HADEP would not only be suppressed in various ways on the local level but would
not exist legally and would certainly not be represented in any parliament etc.
Turkey certainly was a reactionary military dictatorship in theearly 80s and it
makes sence to discuss whether this dictatorship was fascist then, but I don't
think that it's useful to call every form of a reactionary state and governement
fascist.
>
> The MHP was heavily involved in the Maras massacre (December 1978) in which
> members of the minority Alevi branch of Islam and "godless commies"
> ("allahsiz goministler") were slaughtered. Even in 1978 Turkey had the
> second-largest army in NATO, well-equipped with vehicles from German and US
> sources, but for some reason it took this large and well-equipped NATO army
> three days to arrive and stop the pogrom. The official death toll at Maras
> was 111, the real death toll was several times higher. In the 1980s, Alevis
> from the Maras region emigrated in large numbers to Europe, and many support
> the DHKP-C and have no trouble with the concept of Turkey being a fascist
> state. We think they know better than Holberg and Jones what fascism in
> Turkey is.
>
> We have a detestation of fascism in Europe, not least because its supporters
> often attack people from Turkey, but we were intrigued to note how much
> publicity was given to Haider's accession to power in Austria as part of a
> coalition and how little mention there was when the MHP did the same in
> Turkey. Either the imperialist media did not report it because they wanted
> to cover it up, or they did not report it because they knew that the system
> was already fascist and MHP government ministers were merely the icing on
> the cake.
>[Here I agree totally, but I think that the Austrian case makles clear that the
existence of fascists (if the FPÖ-leaders are) in a government does not
automatically make a state fascists.]
> Among the left from Turkey and Kurdistan, there is a close connection between
> militancy and calling the system fascist. The far left parties and groups
> all call the system fascist. The groups that do not are basically reformist.
>
[this is largely true,but it is no prove for the correctness of the analysis. It
rather points to different mentality. Besides, don't you perhaps agree that the
development of the PKK shows how empty the namecalling 'fascist' can be, when
that party - as a major victim of fascism - suddenly discovers the beauty of the
same fascist state's democracy, and strives to becpome a legal party in a state
which yesterday it called fascist and genocidal?]
> Stung by our charge of pessimism, Jones presented a long litany of his
> political activity and asked if we were satisfied. No, we are not. He has,
> in a sense, protested against the DHKP-C. But in his long list he never
> mentions protesting against the
