Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Rob,

I remember your struggles on the Mac. It inspired me to create the leo 
Homebrew formula back in the day. While I haven't used Leo since, I still 
hang out on the group. It's also interesting to see Leo pop up in VSCode, 
which I use daily.

I just received a shiny new MacBook Pro last week after 9 years on the 
previous one, so I might foolishly take up the challenge of producing an 
installer. It looks like PyInstaller works on Mac too. I'm also dusting off 
my Homebrew formulas and hope to clean up the leo one as well.

Last year I revived a colleague's 14-year-old Mac app, so I'm feeling 
limber :-)

Best regards,

Ludwig
On Friday, 12 May 2023 at 01:50:13 UTC+2 Rob wrote:

> Echo what @Paul said about an installer. I believe the biggest obstacle to 
> higher adoption of Leo isn't how to `use` Leo`, but how to install it. 
> Every time I need to install on a new machine, I dread it! Consider Picard 
> , a music tagging application. It is a 
> Python program that contains all the dependencies needed to install and run 
> (Python, Qt, etc.) I have managed to get Leo running on Windows 
> (challenging, but doable) and a Mac. I hope I never have to install it on a 
> Mac again as that was nearly impossible (at least for me). Perhaps @Paul 
> meant Mac instead of Mad?
>
> I have no idea how difficult it is to build a self-contained installer, 
> but perhaps it might be worth the effort.
>
> Rob...
>
>

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Re: Wanted: someone to create mac brew install

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Edward and Marquis,

I'm still around too and willing to help out :-) I haven't brewed much
in the last 2-3 years but still recall the basics.

Regards,

Ludwig

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Re: [MAC]SSD reinstall Yosemite error again [was]Leo5.0-final can not running

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Zoom,

I would remove qt, sip and pyqt and reinstall them, in other words:

brew remove pyqt sip qt
brew install qt sip pyqt

They are supposed to work on OS X 10.10 since the end of last year.

Good luck!

Ludwig

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Re: git: done; Issue tracker?

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi,

One tip for porting issues / tickets to GitHub: unwatch the repository
during the conversion...

A colleague ported some 800 tickets + 500 comments from Bugzilla to GitHub
this week and this resulted in 1300 notification emails going out to
everyone watching the repository, myself included :-) Everyone with push
access receives notifications by default... Also check that the comments do
not become individual issues themselves.

Regards,
Ludwig

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Re: Digest for leo-editor@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 8 Topics

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Edward and the rest of you,

I'm excited for you guys moving to git and GitHub! My team moved our
projects from internal svn to GitHub at the end of last year and we are not
looking back.

In the process I did some serious git archaeology in order to stitch
together some of our projects in order to preserve the full history. My
last attempt combined a small selection of files from 5 separate svn
subtrees spanning 5 years and stepping over various renames, merges and
refactors.

I mention this because I notice that your repository starts off on Feb 28,
2008 with Ville's new bzr layout. And I know there's some more good stuff
before that.

The great thing about git is that it is a tool that can reconstruct your
repository the way you always wanted it to be.

If the full history is interesting to you and you have some older
repositories (pre-bzr) lying around, I could always attempt to reconstruct
it as a hobby project. Eventually attaching it to the front of the current
git repository will involve rebasing and developers will have to clone the
repository from scratch, but it's not that bad if properly communicated
since there are only 5 developers with more than 10 commits.

It's really awesome if you use a tool like git gui blame (as clunky as it
is) and seeing where a specific line in a file actually came from in the
mists of time.

Regards,

Ludwig



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:25 PM, leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:

   Today's Topic Summary

 Group: http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor/topics

- Leo's git repo is ready for testing#14427221420a3c76_group_thread_0[1 
 Update]
- How to call leo functions easily #14427221420a3c76_group_thread_1[1 
 Update]
- How is the move to git going for 
 you?#14427221420a3c76_group_thread_2[14 Updates]
- Big problems with @auto #14427221420a3c76_group_thread_3 [4
Updates]
- spell as you type #14427221420a3c76_group_thread_4 [1 Update]
- What you see what you get? Also various 
 errors.#14427221420a3c76_group_thread_5[1 Update]
- A practical way to share Leo's outline structure without using
sentinels in sccs repos #14427221420a3c76_group_thread_6 [1 Update]
- Can't start leo with leo.run() from external 
 script#14427221420a3c76_group_thread_7[2 Updates]

   Leo's git repo is ready for 
 testinghttp://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor/t/cb09be0a8269c2cd

Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com Feb 12 09:16AM -0800


 140KiB/s in China ...


is that better or worse than Launchpad and bzr?



   How to call leo functions 
 easilyhttp://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor/t/eb63e53fd93be9de

Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com Feb 12 09:14AM -0800

Hi:

Long ago we discussed in the group if there was a way to call a
function
inside Leo's code, but without knowing how to get there (the
c.something.somethingelse.somemore part)

I remember there was no clear easy way to reach a desired function
directly.

But I was wondering, would it be possible to search for a function
name,
then for Leo to find the (several) possible paths that lead to that
function named that way?

For instance, now I want to experiment with the function named
update_image inside viewrendered.py file.

It would be great to have a script that would tell me that the way to
reach
it is:

c.something.somethingelse.somemore.update_image

And it would be about iterating over all methods of c and g, (by
calling
getattr()) then return the ones that were successful. Would that
iteration
take too long?
Is there already a way to find the
c.something.somethignelse.somemore
before a given function name?
Sometimes there are very valuable gems / functions hidden inside Leo's
code, and its a shame that when you find them, you have no clear way
to
reach them!!



   How is the move to git going for 
 you?http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor/t/7337e2899b4bfa38

Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com Feb 12 05:41AM -0800

I am slowly coming up to speed with git. The workflow isn't smooth
yet,
but it's improving.

Anyone have any problems to report or tips or suggestions to share?

Here are a few notes:

1. It seems that we will want a .gitattributes file. It's important
that
we handle line endings properly:

https://help.github.com/articles/dealing-with-line-endings

2. Storing credentials avoids having to type passwords:

https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-credential-store.html

Edward




Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com Feb 12 08:45AM -0500

On 2/12/2014 8:41 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 1. It seems that we will want a .gitattributes file. It's important
 that we handle line endings properly:

 https://help.github.com/articles/dealing-with-line-endings

Neat, I didn't know about .gitattributes :)
 2. Storing credentials avoids having to type passwords:

Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Jake and Matt,



Matt has the previous years of Leo's history in a few other github
repos:

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-cvs-2002-2006

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-cvs-2006-2008

Just in case you're curious :)


Wow, I missed those - really impressive!

Once it all lives in git things definitely become a bit easier to
manipulate. Looking at those repos I realise that CVS also complicates
matters a bit (I only converted from svn, phew). And there is the Windows
line endings and various author name issues to deal with, so a bit of work!

Is there any interest in stitching these repos? At least they are all on
GitHub, which is a huge step already.

Ludwig

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Re: OFF-TOPIC: Lucid dreaming device

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Fidel!

Sorry for feeding the topic... :-) This looks like a souped-up version of
the NovaDreamer produced by the Lucidity Institute many years ago. I used
to dream of getting one back in the days. Eventually I had two or three
lucid dreams by myself but also found it hard work...

Ludwig

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Re: A vivid dream

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Edward,

 I've just awoken from one of the most vivid dreams of my life.
 It involved a remodeling of a kitchen.
 I'm pretty sure this dream was about Leo, ...

Or, if you follow the Jungian interpretation, you remodelled a part of your
psyche, as Jung frequently identified a house with the dreamer himself. :-)
He also placed special emphasis on vivid dreams, especially if they contain
surprising and incomprehensible archetypal imagery...

Some useless dream analysis over the Internet!

Ludwig

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Re: A vivid dream

[Ludwig Schwardt]

 Another recurring vivid dream is finding an unexplored wing of my house.

This is a common and powerful recurring dream - in fact, Jung himself had
such a dream in 1909, one which had a profound impact on his ideas and
career. Here is the first hit I could find:

http://www.briancollinson.ca/index.php/2009/04/dreaming-about-the-self-as-a-house.html

While some of Jung's ideas may be a bit too mystical, it is nevertheless
fascinating stuff if you are interested in dreams.

On a lighter note, since Qt is now finally compiling on Mac OS X 10.9 aka
Mavericks, Leo should be able to run there too :-)

Ludwig

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Re: Why Leo isn't more popular

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi,

Miles's comments inspired me to do something about the Homebrew version of
Leo. Instead of following a long-winded and increasingly out-of-date set of
installation instructions you will soon be able to go (if all goes well!):

brew install leo

I've created a rough formula for Leo and uploaded it to my Homebrew tap. To
try it out, do the following:

- Get Homebrew from http://brew.sh/, following their instructions on how to
install it

- Pay special attention to Python - if you have already installed a bunch
of Python stuff, it's best to keep using the existing Python. Otherwise, if
this is your first Python experience it is safe to install the Homebrew
Python (which will make your life easier) via

  brew install python

  (If all your existing Python tools suddenly disappear, go 'brew remove
python' to restore order :-))

- Get my formulas:

  brew tap ska-sa/tap

- Et voila:

  brew install leo

- If you kept your old Python, follow the instruction in the caveat printed
at the end of:

  brew info leo

  (I.e. add the suggested line to your ~/.bash_profile file if you are not
using Homebrew Python)

The formula has three versions:

  brew install leo = installs the latest stable release (4.10)
  brew install --devel leo = installs latest alpha (4.11-a2)
  brew install --HEAD leo = installs the bleeding-edge bzr version from
Launchpad

It also installs PyEnchant by default (which can be disabled).

I would love some testing of the installation before I submit it to the
main Homebrew repository (if you guys think the formula is a good idea). I
don't use Leo myself and have only done some cursory poking around.

Miles's point about using a Ruby-based installer to install a Python
package also rings true (although this is becoming more popular these days
on the Mac given how awesome Homebrew is for dependencies and Python
extensions, and this is not any stranger than the C-based apt-get install
leo).

I would expect to install a Python package such as Leo using pip install
leo or easy_install leo. The main problem has always been that Leo has a
non-standard package layout.

I (only now!) see that Ville, Matt and others have created a setup.py and
leo even exists on PyPI so that these installation commands actually do
something. Unfortunately, for me pip install leo results in a Leo that
throws an AssertionError upon running. What is the status of this
installation route? (It is not even mentioned on the installation page!)
Also, leo 4.10-final on PyPI actually installs 4.11-devel...

Any comments welcome!

Ludwig

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Re: Macintosh installation

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi John,  

I wrote the original instructions for using Homebrew to install Leo on the Mac. 
Unfortunately those instructions are a bit outdated by now. From your 
description I only see one problem: the PYTHONPATH you added to .bash_profile 
has changed to

export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages:$PYTHONPATH

This is mentioned by brew after you install sip - reinstall sip to verify the 
correct incantation for you (I assume you are using Python 2.6 - change to 
python2.7 if necessary).

To answer some of your questions: pyqt depends on qt and sip, therefore 
installing the pyqt package will automatically install the rest. I've installed 
them separately in the instructions below to pick up the correct PYTHONPATH 
setting.

Here is a summary of what I did today on a reasonably clean Lion system to get 
Leo working (maybe Ed can put this on the web site):

- Read the Homebrew installation instructions at
  https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/wiki/Installation

- Make sure you have Xcode installed (test it by confirming
  that gcc runs in the Terminal). You can either get the full
  Xcode beast or the lean-and-mean Command-Line Tools
  for Xcode, as suggested in the Homebrew installation
  instructions.


- In preparation for Homebrew, the best option in my opinion is
  to delete /usr/local via::

  sudo rm -rf /usr/local

  and install any software in it via Homebrew instead. If this step
  fills you with dread and you do not want to lose your beloved
  third-party software, the second-best option is to make sure you
  have write permission for the directory via::

  sudo chown -R your user name:admin /usr/local

  If you don't know your username, run whoami. :-) This is
  useful because homebrew actually discourages you from
  installing third-party software as the superuser (the usual Mac
  apps in /Applications are also installed as the normal user,
  for that matter).


- Install Homebrew (http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/) by running
the following command in the Terminal::


  /usr/bin/ruby -e $(/usr/bin/curl -fsSL 
https://raw.github.com/mxcl/homebrew/master/Library/Contributions/install_homebrew.rb)

- Run brew doctor and check any further suggestions to improve
your system.


- Run brew update to get the latest formulas

- Install sip and note the caveat::

  brew install sip

  This warns you to add the local python directory to your PYTHONPATH.
  Make a note of what this is (especially if you are not on Lion!).

- Add the following lines to your ~/.bash_profile
  (or ~/.profile on Leopard) - this is the default for LION::

  export PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH
  # This is for SIP (and PyQT) as suggested by Homebrew
  export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages:$PYTHONPATH

- Install PyQT::

  brew install pyqt
  

- Open a new Terminal tab / window so that the above settings
  take effect, and install Leo. I downloaded the Leo-4.9-final-a.zip,
  unzipped it, and ran python launchLeo.py inside the Leo
  directory.


It would really be great to get a Leo formula going for Homebrew… As mentioned 
before, the main question is just where to place all the Leo files in the 
/usr/local hierarchy.

Regards,
Ludwig

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Re: leo install error under MAC 10.7

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi, 

Yes, this is a very irritating aspect of PyQt. Each time a new tarball of PyQt 
is released under http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Downloads/PyQt4/ 
(http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Downloads/PyQt4/PyQt-mac-gpl-4.8.6.tar.gz),
 the old one is removed, breaking the homebrew script. This forces the homebrew 
maintainer to work with the latest PyQt version, which could take a while to 
iron out issues. I wish Riverbank would just keep the old versions in the same 
place.

Let us know if the latest version of the PyQt formula mentioned in the issue 
below works for you.

Regards,
Ludwig

 Zoom.Quiet zoom.qu...@gmail.com (mailto:zoom.qu...@gmail.com) Dec 23 
 02:36PM +0800
  
 Issue as:#9246: pyqt error in 10.7 - Issues - mxcl/homebrew - GitHub
 https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/issues/9246

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Re: leo install error under MAC 10.7

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi, 

I have recently successfully installed Leo on a new MacBook Pro running Mac OS 
10.7.2. Instead of using macports, I would recommend homebrew instead 
(http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/) to install Qt and PyQt4. 

For more details, see my instructions on the Leo on Mac OSX thread, dated 14 
October 2011 (the first hit if you search for homebrew on the google groups 
page of the leo mailing list).

Good luck!
Ludwig

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Re: Leo on Mac OSX

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Rob and Edward,

I bear good tidings of great joy!

I recently received a new MacBook Pro and did a fresh upgrade to Mac
OS 10.7 (Lion). I then used the opportunity to test out installation
procedures of various software on a clean system. My main finding is
that the excellent Homebrew (mxcl.github.com/homebrew/) makes things
much easier these days.

Why Homebrew? It does not try to replace every single bit of
functionality on your Mac with their own version, like Macports or
fink. It reuses the existing libraries as far as possible. No need to
reinstall Python, for example (one of my pet gripes when people try to
install new software on their Macs, and the source of much confusion
and pain). It installs to /usr/local, the standard place to find
third-party libraries and headers, instead of the obscure /opt or /sw.
It's simple to use and to extend.

I last installed Leo on Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger) back in the Tk days, and
wondered what it looked like in Qt. All the horror stories of PyQT on
Mac discouraged me from trying this before, so I was keen to see if
Homebrew helps. Here is my installation write-up:

- Make sure you have Xcode installed
  (test it by confirming that gcc runs in the Terminal)

- In preparation for homebrew, the best option in my opinion is
  to delete /usr/local via::

  sudo rm -rf /usr/local

  and install any software in it via homebrew instead. If this step
  fills you with dread and you do not want to lose your beloved
  third-party software, the second-best option is to make sure you
  have write permission for the directory via::

  sudo chown -R your user name:admin /usr/local

  If you don't know your username, run whoami. :-) This is
  useful because homebrew actually discourages you from
  installing third-party software as the superuser (the usual Mac
  apps in /Applications are also installed as the normal user,
  for that matter).

- Install Homebrew (http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/) by running
  the following command in the Terminal::

  /usr/bin/ruby -e $(curl -fsSL https://raw.github.com/gist/323731)

- Run brew update to get the latest formulas

- Now install PyQT (yes, that's it!)::

  brew install pyqt

- Run brew doctor and check any further suggestions to improve
  your system.

- Add the following lines to your ~/.bash_profile
  (or ~/.profile on Leopard)::

  export PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH
  # This is for SIP (and PyQT) as suggested by Homebrew
  export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python:$PYTHONPATH

- Open a new Terminal tab / window so that the above settings
  take effect, and install Leo. I downloaded the Leo-4.9-final-a.zip,
  unzipped it, and ran python launchLeo.py inside the Leo
  directory.

We should consider adding a Homebrew formula for Leo. This will
simplify the process even further, to simply brew install leo. I
started on this, but wasn't sure where to put the various Leo files in
the system hierarchy. The Debian package can give some clues here, but
I haven't looked at it yet.

Now I just have to start using Leo after all these years of checking
it out... :-)

Regards,
Ludwig

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A more philosophical question

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi,

I've started using Leo about 2 months ago. I intended to use it as a
single point of entry for a Python toolkit I am writing from scratch,
where the code is closely coupled with documentation and tests.

My biggest stumbling block is that I find it hard to break out of a
file-based way of thinking. In a sense, Leo surpasses the file system
and provides its own (better IMO) hierarchical view of your code. The
file in which a piece of code resides is nearly irrelevant. But this
tripped me up, as I wasn't sure where to use @file nodes and how to
maintain a parallel file structure that may or may not match the Leo
structure.

In order to get things done, I reverted to what I knew best - a single
Python file. This worked out fine in the end. I still want to give the
Leo way a shot though, especially as the toolkit will soon start to
outgrow its single file.

Any tips for a Leo newbie on how to start a project from scratch?

Regards,
Ludwig

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Re: A more philosophical question

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi,

Yes, I remember now - I did use @thin for all derived files. I haven't
actively used Leo for the past few weeks, so the terminology is
slipping...

My problem has to do with starting with a blank myproject.leo. I don't
have a clear idea of how to proceed. I initially thought I'll do a top-
down breakdown of the project, which seemed really nice and well-
suited to Leo.

So I started with a hierarchy along the lines of

- Overview
- Documentation for algorithms
  - Various classes of algorithms I want to implement, in hierarchical
relation to each other
- Examples of each algorithm class
- Code
  - Data structures
- @thin DataStructures.py
  - Applications
- @thin MainApp.py
  - Various steps in MainApp

When I tried to go deeper, I found it really hard to decide which
files I needed where in the Leo hierarchy. And what if the code in one
node needed code in another node? Do I clone it into the required
node, or do I import it via Python? With standard IDEs, the file
hierarchy is very clear, while with Leo the Leo hierarchy is very
clear and the file hierarchy obscure. I actually wished I could do
away with files and simply run things from the Leo hierarchy!

I then ditched Leo, and started with a single Python file, which
allowed me to start testing right away, without the big top-down
design approach I took with Leo. As the file grows, the idea is to
refactor into modules / classes / functions, as needed.

Of course, Leo does not force you to work top-down, and can work
bottom-up as well. I just took a top-down approach with Leo, and found
that I am more of a bottom-up person :)

I would really like to hear what approach people take with new
projects in Leo, as I am still keen to try it out. And how do you
decide on a file hierarchy in parallel with the Leo hierarchy?

Regards,
Ludwig


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