subject:"Re\: Downloading Leo \- suggestions"

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-11 Thread Edward K. Ream

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 4:59 AM, lewis  wrote:

> I have attempted some improvements at the 'Downloading Leo' section.
>

Great stuff.  I made a few minor changes
.

What do you think?

These kinds of simplifications to the first docs that newbies see are
vital.  Thanks again.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-11 Thread lewis

Nice improvement. It answers the 'why git' question up front, in the 
introduction.

Lewis

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 12:28:22 AM UTC+11, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> I made a few minor changes .
>  
> What do you think?
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-11 Thread Edward K. Ream

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 6:17 PM, lewis  wrote:

> Nice improvement. It answers the 'why git' question up front, in the
> introduction.
>

Glad you like it.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-20 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

Hi,

I like how documentation is getting more compact and direct. I wonder if
installation instructions could go from the most newbie friendly to the
not so newbie ones (maybe after releasing 5.5). So installation should
start from the most common used installation method of the intended
platform and then go to more powerful ones. For example, running a
binary self-contained executable on Windows, a dmg on Mac or apt-rpm on
Linux. Of course that creates the problem of packaging, that we have
discussed previously Leo's manpower (which is mostly Edward) could be
not enough to take the laborious and tedious packaging work.

In the Grafoscopio case, I rely on the Pharo platform to manage
packaging and provide prerequisites, which makes installation and
updating easy, but I was wondering how Python related projects do this
nowadays. One path is Conda and, particularly, Miniconda which manages
depedencies and is already packaged for several platforms [1], but seems
that a full installation can be overkill for Leo and its prerrequisites
[2]. In the Jupyter case the map they provide [3] gives the user and
overview of what they want to do, based on the answer the user gives to
a question, and they use the external installer method (in their case
Anaconda) to the final installation, making it pretty easy [4] ('cause
the heavy work is done by conda and not the user/developer). Conda can
be also used to upgrade the software, including updating/building from
git[5]

[1] https://conda.io/miniconda.html
[2] https://conda.io/docs/install/quick.html
[3] https://jupyter.readthedocs.io/en/latest/projects/content-projects.html
[4] https://jupyter.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html
[5]
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19042389/conda-installing-upgrading-directly-from-github

I think that this is a path worthy to explore. At the end install
instructions, including updating, for Leo could be (following Jupyter)
something like:

~~~
# Installing Leo

1. Install miniconda for your platform.
2. Open your operative system command terminal (optional link to details
on how to do it each platform).

3. Run from the terminal:
conda install leo

# Upgrading Leo:

To update Leo to the last prebuild do open a terminal and do:

conda update leo.

To update Leo by building it to their last development version (from
git) do:

conda build leo.

~~~

As I said, we have something similar for Grafoscopio with Pharo and
installing and packaging for several platforms (Win, Mac, Linux) is
transparent and updating to the last version is just two clicks away.
Feedback has been positive in the workshops about this method, so some
similar ideas could work for Leo.

Hope this helps,

Offray

On 11/03/17 05:59, lewis wrote:
I have attempted some improvements at the 'Downloading Leo' section.
Goals are:

a. write a compact, focused instruction.
b. encourage Leo users to use Git
c. Keep the friendly style
d. remove distracting links, broken link (old greygreen.org), and
duplication (github instructions).

*Downloading Leo*

We recommend using Git to download Leo. It will give you the latest
full featured code. Follow the instructions at _Installing Leo with
git_ (http://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-with-git)

Why do we recommend Git?
Leo is always being improved and developed. Leo's developers ensure
that the daily commits are as bug-free as possible. You can review all
the new features and update when you decide.

If you prefer a new development version, or a version from from 1, 2,
5, 10, 30 or 90 days ago, download a _Nightly snapshot_
(http://leoeditor.com/download.html#snapshots) .

If you want a stable release download from _sourceforge_
(https://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/Leo/). Remember it won't
have the latest features and bug fixes though.

*Snapshots*
- Suggest deleting the "As of 2014" introduction. It was a long time
ago and not relevant to the time frames.

[snip]

Hope it helps as you work on Leo's documentation for several more days
:) These type of instructions always benefit from a review by a few
people so please comment freely.

Regards
Lewis
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com
.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-21 Thread Edward K. Ream

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:00 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> I like how documentation is getting more compact and direct.
>
I agree.  This is a big step forward, for everyone, but especially for
first timers.


> I wonder if installation instructions could go from the most newbie
> friendly to the not so newbie ones (maybe after releasing 5.5). So
> installation should start from the most common used installation method of
> the intended platform and then go to more powerful ones.
>
Heh.  The eternal tension. Perhaps you could have a conversation with
Lewis Neal.

> ... 
> I was wondering how Python related projects do this nowadays. One path is
> Conda and, particularly, Miniconda which manages dependencies and is
> already packaged for several platforms [1], but seems that a full
> installation can be overkill for Leo and its prerequisites
> 
> [2].
>
> Overkill, maybe, but I think it is useful overkill. Installing the full
Anaconda package (or packages, if you install for both Python 2 and 3)
saves a lot of time in the long run.  I'm not looking for anything better.
Besides, these days even small machines typically have huge memories.

> In the Jupyter case the map they provide [3] gives the user and overview
> of what they want to do, based on the answer the user gives to a question,
> and they use the external installer method (in their case Anaconda) to the
> final installation, making it pretty easy [4] ('cause the heavy work is
> done by conda and not the user/developer). Conda can be also used to
> upgrade the software, including updating/building from git[5]
>
I think this is just fine or Leo too.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-21 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas


Hi,


On 21/03/17 09:11, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:00 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
mailto:off...@riseup.net>> wrote:


I like how documentation is getting more compact and direct.

I agree.  This is a big step forward, for everyone, but especially 
for first timers.


I wonder if installation instructions could go from the most
newbie friendly to the not so newbie ones (maybe after releasing
5.5). So installation should start from the most common used
installation method of the intended platform and then go to more
powerful ones.

Heh.  The eternal tension. Perhaps you could have a conversation with 
Lewis Neal.


If the miniconda method progress, Lewis could help in creating the yaml 
manifest for Mac, instead of the brew installer... I started thinking in 
this, installation method, but as the mail progressed miniconda seems



... 
I was wondering how Python related projects do this nowadays. One
path is Conda and, particularly, Miniconda which manages
dependencies and is already packaged for several platforms [1],
but seems that a full installation can be overkill for Leo and its
prerequisites

[2].

Overkill, maybe, but I think it is useful overkill. Installing the 
full Anaconda package (or packages, if you install for both Python 2 
and 3) saves a lot of time in the long run.  I'm not looking for 
anything better. Besides, these days even small machines typically 
have huge memories.


Yes. I will start with miniconda and see what we can bootstrap from 
there. Connectivity is not the same in the Global South and Leo has 
users in India and Colombia. Reducing the amount of stuff you have to 
download to start with Leo is important to make it global.



In the Jupyter case the map they provide [3] gives the user and
overview of what they want to do, based on the answer the user
gives to a question, and they use the external installer method
(in their case Anaconda) to the final installation, making it
pretty easy [4] ('cause the heavy work is done by conda and not
the user/developer). Conda can be also used to upgrade the
software, including updating/building from git[5]

I think this is just fine or Leo too.



I agree. I will try miniconda for my python related stuff (is not much 
these days) and try to give feedback.


Cheers,

Offray


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-21 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas




On 21/03/17 09:48, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:


If the miniconda method progress, Lewis could help in creating the 
yaml manifest for Mac, instead of the brew installer... I started 
thinking in this, installation method, but as the mail progressed 
miniconda seems




Whoops! hit enter at the wrong time. I meant that I started my mail 
thinking in native installers, but as I progressed the (mini)conda 
method seemed better.


Cheers,

Offray

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-21 Thread Edward K. Ream

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

Whoops! hit enter at the wrong time. I meant that I started my mail
> thinking in native installers, but as I progressed the (mini)conda method
> seemed better.


Good.  I think we are in reasonable agreement.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-21 Thread lewis

Ah yes, feel the eternal tension :)

Miniconda or Anaconda? 
Using Anaconda, you have a very large set of packages, some of which are 
outdated.
>From the Conda.io https://conda.io/docs/install/quick.html site:
*NOTE: If you choose to install the full Anaconda package, it requires 3 GB 
of available disk space.*
Using Miniconda  py3.6 64bit the Binary File is only 57.8 MB.

For me I would probably go for Miniconda as it allows more control over 
packages, although I tried it only once and it didn't play well with 
packages I already had installed.
At first glance my preference might be to have a *separate section* for 
those interested in installing Ana/Mini conda, rather than complicate the 
'compact and direct' docs.

Edward - do you have any statistics on how Leo's user base installs Leo? 
Sure the numbers might be meaningless as most git downloads are updates, 
but the knowledge may help guide the direction of the install documents.

HTH however I don't have a Mac. 

Regards
Lewis

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:27:33 AM UTC+11, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
> off...@riseup.net > wrote:
>
> Whoops! hit enter at the wrong time. I meant that I started my mail 
>> thinking in native installers, but as I progressed the (mini)conda method 
>> seemed better.
>
>
> Good.  I think we are in reasonable agreement.
>
> Edward
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-22 Thread Edward K. Ream

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:59 PM, lewis  wrote:

>From the Conda.io https://conda.io/docs/install/quick.html site:
> *NOTE: If you choose to install the full Anaconda package, it requires 3
> GB of available disk space.*
> Using Miniconda  py3.6 64bit the Binary File is only 57.8 MB.
>

Thanks for this.  This might be significant for some people, but I wonder
how many.

Edward - do you have any statistics on how Leo's user base installs Leo?
> Sure the numbers might be meaningless as most git downloads are updates,
> but the knowledge may help guide the direction of the install documents.
>

There are stats on Leo's download page on SourceForge
.



Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

2017-03-22 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas




On 22/03/17 06:56, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:59 PM, lewis > wrote:


From the Conda.io https://conda.io/docs/install/quick.html
 site:
/NOTE: If you choose to install the full Anaconda package, it
requires 3 GB of available disk space./
Using Miniconda  py3.6 64bit the Binary File is only 57.8 MB.


Thanks for this.  This might be significant for some people, but I 
wonder how many.




Edward - do you have any statistics on how Leo's user base
installs Leo? Sure the numbers might be meaningless as most git
downloads are updates, but the knowledge may help guide the
direction of the install documents.


There are stats on Leo's download page on SourceForge 
.





For me and in this context certainly 60 MB versys 3 GB will be 
significant. I think that we should not only worry for the current users 
but about future ones in several places with low connectivity. I would 
try miniconda first to see how Leo and its dependencies can be packaged 
there. If that work the same recipes will work with full and big 
Anaconda installs, but 3 GB is not a prerrequisite to start with Leo, 
just a possibility.


Cheers,

Offray


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

Re: Downloading Leo - suggestions

11 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information