Re: LiveCD Users
Dan Nicholson wrote: > I thought the reason for using iproute2 was because net-tools is > unmaintained. Yes, when the discussion for the change took place, this was the main reason. -- JH -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On 7/23/07, Alexander E. Patrakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Craig Jackson wrote: > > I can hack the init scripts a bit to get it to work, but its > > command line parameters are not very intuitive. This was my least > > favorite upgrade from 5.x. I do understand the need for the update. > > (IPv6 support). > > > LFS doesn't support IPv6, so the move to iproute2 is unjustified from > this viewpoint. I will take back this opinion as soon as LFS bootscripts > start supporting IPv6. I thought the reason for using iproute2 was because net-tools is unmaintained. But I think we could add support for IPv6 in the net scripts. Couldn't be too much work. -- Dan -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
> > I would love a simple installer that copies the contents of the livecd > > to a "safe OS" partition, from which to build LFS or CLFS or whatever. > > > Sorry, the information how to do this was available before, and is still > available via private e-mail. However, due to dummies asking stupid BLFS > support questions on IRC without completing LFS, I provide this > information only on the condition that you unsubscribe from the support I do understand this line of reasoning. If we went into the business of this we would become a distro, if that's what I am to understand. :) We need to put this desire to not be a distro in some sort of mission statement, if it already isn't in one. :) In the meantime I guess I will just have to make my own script :) I will try loading the cd into my 2G of RAM. Thanks for the help! Craig Jackson (TheEpitome) -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
Craig Jackson wrote: > Otherwise, I use > console due to the extreme performance hit of X when run from the > LiveCD. (Not sure why this is). > This is known to happen on machines with insufficient amount of RAM due to VM bug in the kernel, because it doesn't like the fact that our dm-snapshot device is backed by a loop device on a sparse file on tmpfs (it fruitlessly loops and tries to free some memory by flushing dirty buffers, try "echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory" and see an oops). Try adding swap to work around this. Or, if this guess is wrong (i.e., you have 512 MB of RAM or more), try booting the SVN version of the LiveCD as "linux toram" (if you have only 512 MB of RAM, you'll have to add swap, though). >> 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? >> > > IPRoute. net-tools were added in the SVN version of the LiveCD. > I can hack the init scripts a bit to get it to work, but its > command line parameters are not very intuitive. This was my least > favorite upgrade from 5.x. I do understand the need for the update. > (IPv6 support). > LFS doesn't support IPv6, so the move to iproute2 is unjustified from this viewpoint. I will take back this opinion as soon as LFS bootscripts start supporting IPv6. >> 5) What would you change/add/improve? >> > > I would love a simple installer that copies the contents of the livecd > to a "safe OS" partition, from which to build LFS or CLFS or whatever. > Sorry, the information how to do this was available before, and is still available via private e-mail. However, due to dummies asking stupid BLFS support questions on IRC without completing LFS, I provide this information only on the condition that you unsubscribe from the support lists and agree to be banned on IRC. The SVN CD includes a compromise: you can put the ISO as a file onto a partition and use this file for booting - but you can't save anything across a reboot (i.e., the same limitation as if you booted from a CD). -- Alexander E. Patrakov -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 12:57:14PM -0700, Craig Jackson wrote:
> I would love a simple installer that copies the contents of the livecd
> to a "safe OS" partition, from which to build LFS or CLFS or whatever.
The most recent version does allow you to run the CD from a partition or
USB flash drive. Also, IIRC, there are hints available on 'installing'
the CD contents to a hard disk.
> has errors, but Linux doesn't seem to mind so much. (If you think
> this is immoral, think about all the people that suddenly like Linux
> so much more after seeing its ability to do this) :)
Immoral? Nah, I think it's great. :)
> No, thank you Jerermy and company. You truly have built the ultimate
> boot cd as far as I'm concerned. :)
And many thanks to all who participated in this thread. It was most
appreciated. I think it helps to see that people are still making use of
the CD and that, for the most part, it's well-liked. I'll be looking
over the comments made to see where we might be able to use the
suggestions.
Admittedly, I was disappointed to see that only one {x,}LFS developer
commented. :/ Still, there was far more feedback than I expected. Thanks
again, everyone.
--
JH
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Re: LiveCD Users
> 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? Currently, 6.2-5. For LFS 5.x production server builds, I use a LiveCD 5.x build I have archived. > 2) What do you use the CD most for? Building LFS and CLFS. I will use X on the CD only if I have no other way of browsing the net (like another machine). Otherwise, I use console due to the extreme performance hit of X when run from the LiveCD. (Not sure why this is). > 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? The fact it is a clean environment to build X, without worrying about the kernel version or getting complaints of automake not being the perfect version etc. > 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? IPRoute. I can hack the init scripts a bit to get it to work, but its command line parameters are not very intuitive. This was my least favorite upgrade from 5.x. I do understand the need for the update. (IPv6 support). > 5) What would you change/add/improve? I would love a simple installer that copies the contents of the livecd to a "safe OS" partition, from which to build LFS or CLFS or whatever. I know, I know, I should write a script. I am only reluctant to do so because I am told it would not be in the spirit of LFS to have it all done for you. I would not use it this way, it would be the OS I build it from, not my final product. There are plenty of great features on the LiveCD that I would not include in my final customized build. I would leave this theoretical LiveCD image on my hard drive until another major release of LiveCD came out. > Of course any other thoughts or comments are welcome. We really just > need to get an idea of how useful our project is to the community. If > it's too much work to answer the above, just a short reply saying you > use the CD would be helpful, too. Ironically, I have worked at places that are Windows-only and as soon as it is introduced, we use this livecd regularly to recover data from systems. Windows is very picky about mounting an NTFS partition that has errors, but Linux doesn't seem to mind so much. (If you think this is immoral, think about all the people that suddenly like Linux so much more after seeing its ability to do this) :) > Thanks in advance, No, thank you Jerermy and company. You truly have built the ultimate boot cd as far as I'm concerned. :) Craig Jackson (TheEpitome) -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
>1) What version of the CD do you use/have? The current version as of 2 months ago (I think it was pre6.2?) >2) What do you use the CD most for? Building LFS - Getting setup/configuration ideas - Rescue CD >3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? The setup/configuration ideas. It proved invaluable on my last LFS build when I switched to a full unicode greek-locales system. It has also proven its worth many times over on various configuration issues (X windows, networking, etc.) >4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? Haven't found anything so far. >5) What would you change/add/improve? Frankly, you guys are doing an excellent job and I really appreciate it. I've been using LFS/BLFS for about 4 years now and am very happy with it. I get to build my system the way I like it, with the applications I want to use. I've tried occasionally other distros (it takes me a few days to completely build up a new LFS/BLFS system) but I end up not using them since there always is something that annoys me and it would take more time than I can spare to fix it. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate it. -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:20:39 + (UTC), Steven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I still don't know how to us iproute2 competently though I can sometimes > bumble my way into creating a useable network. Is there a concise > tutorial? Maybe I'll end up writing one... There's some documentation listed at http://linux-net.osdl.org/index.php/Iproute2. Caveat: I've never needed to do anything beyond connect my single wired ethernet desktop to my router, so haven't needed to consult the docs linked above. I therefore can't possibly comment on their usefulness! Regards, Matt. -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:29:52 -0600, Jeremy Huntwork wrote: > 2) What do you use the CD most for? Rescue. > 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? The shell. > 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? Every time I get a new LiveCD I always have some new piece of hardware whose module didn't make it into the kernel until the version which is one femtoversion after the one on the LiveCD. Every time I have a LiveCD which covers all of my hardware there's always a dependency on a /lib/ firmware/something which the LiveCD dev could not possibly have anticipated (without scraping the web for every possible firmware that might be needed). Everytime I get to the point where I have a LiveCD which addresses all of my hardware something happens in my life to keep me away from the project for six or ten months and I return to the first sentence of this paragraph. > 5) What would you change/add/improve? I still don't know how to us iproute2 competently though I can sometimes bumble my way into creating a useable network. Is there a concise tutorial? Maybe I'll end up writing one... > JH The LFS team is the best! Steven -- -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Tuesday 17 July 2007 11:29:52 pm Jeremy Huntwork wrote:
> 1) What version of the CD do you use/have?
I'm using 6.3-r1952 although I have 6.2.5 also
> 2) What do you use the CD most for?
I'm exploring jhalfs ... basically just learning {,b,c}LFS ... but mostly I am
just futzing around learning by making mistakes
> 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you?
Being able to boot into a known good environment to build within.
I ike being able to run X ... in particular, I've found the I really like xfce
as a working environment. Having a browser open along with a xterm makes for
very convenient cut and paste.
I have the LiveCD installed on a partition of the 2 systems I'm using with
LFS currently.
> 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD?
I don't have any ... although there are certainly things I haven't gotten
around to using yet such as distcc ... I did read a warning about parallel
compiling but I am wondering how booting a couple machines off the same CD
would affect things ... but what I do best is procrastinate.
> 5) What would you change/add/improve?
Just a minor quibble ... jhalfs-2.2 is listed as latest stable yet 2.1 is on
the r1952 CD ... takes about 15 sec to fix but it prolly ought to be updated
for consistency ... but, boy howdy, I'm a happy camper. I haven't looked for
anything later although I know Jeremy has been working on the no-source CD.
I am quite interested in getting X86_64 running but I'm not up-to-speed on
CLFS yet ... I am looking forward to learning what I can as the project moves
forward in that direction.
K
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RE: LiveCD Users
I'll chime in and give a long overdue thanks to everyone in the *LFS community for a job well done. That especially includes the liveCD project. 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? 6.0-1 and 6.2-5 2) What do you use the CD most for? Installation of LFS on new systems. To date I've done 7 installs, including installing to a USB hard drive. To paraphrase Brian Fantana, "100 percent of the time, it works every time." 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? ALFS (NALFS or JHALFS) 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? Not really the CD's fault, but the lack of BLFS automation. (Why can't you guys create a CD that reads my mind and solves cyclic dependencies automatically?) 5) What would you change/add/improve? Speed of bootup ;-) J/K. The documentation on the website is a bit sparse. Perhaps just adding a statement that "all you really need to know is included in the README on the liveCD" would be sufficient. Also, we're just starting to look into creating our own liveCDs using the LFS liveCD as a starting point. I may have more to add on that topic in a month or two. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeremy Huntwork Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lfs-dev@linuxfromscratch.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: LiveCD Users Hello, I'm aware that this is perhaps a little off-topic for the -dev list, but I feel that this thread could really help future development of the CD, so please bear with me and help me out with as much feedback as you can muster. :) The LiveCD project rarely hears much back from its end users, unless someone has a problem booting, or understanding how to use the CD, or having trouble building LFS (in which case they're talking to the wrong list anyway). The effect is that we really have no idea who uses the CD, how useful certain features/aspects of it are, what things may need to be improved and so on. So please, if you use the LFS LiveCD, please reply to this thread (on whatever list you read it), and if possible, provide the following info: 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? 2) What do you use the CD most for? 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? 5) What would you change/add/improve? Of course any other thoughts or comments are welcome. We really just need to get an idea of how useful our project is to the community. If it's too much work to answer the above, just a short reply saying you use the CD would be helpful, too. Thanks in advance, -- JH -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
Hi, > 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? Some 6.2-x, when I last needed one, about half a year ago. > 2) What do you use the CD most for? booting a box where no working current Linux is installed, i.e. prior Linux installations are damaged, too old for a certain purpose or just not existing. > 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? Having a "known good" Linux installation that 1) enables me to start building LFS on a box without having to care about prerequisites like kernel versions on that box and 2) can be used as fallback OS in case anything went wrong (boot sector overwritten or something like that). > 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? I never examined what I did not use of it... Well, the sources are not that important to me, because I tend to use the most current (and externally stored) versions (and not the ones from the last LiveCD at hand) if I decide to "play" with LFS again. On the other hand: if there is enough space its convenient to have a good starting set of packages available at no extra cost. Most annoying is probably having to specify the same parameters (like keyboard layout) every time when booting. But I'm not sure either whether storing that somewhere on HD or giving the user a certain time to press a key to enter such info instead of using a default would be better. > 5) What would you change/add/improve? For me, having a current "always works" solution is the main benefit, but I dont have any idea at the moment how that could be improved further. Uwe -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Jeremy Huntwork wrote: > 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? Looks like 6.2-5. > 2) What do you use the CD most for? Booting qemu to test the mkinitramfs package I'm doing. ;-) > 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? Support for dmraid / mdadm / LVM. Also mount.smbfs, so I can pull files from my normal machine into the qemu image (qemu runs a virtual network, with SMB/CIFS pass-through to the real host). > 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? Not annoying, but slightly useless: X and the entire system build setup. But that's just because I don't use X in qemu, and qemu is horribly slow at building anything. So I don't think it'd be a good idea to get rid of either of those for everybody (as my usage is a special case: I don't boot a real machine). > 5) What would you change/add/improve? Not sure; at the moment, it works great for what I need it to do. :-) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGnfZnS5vET1Wea5wRA0CzAJ0dO0CyK81azzLxxPhwF/cqESL4agCfZoYo xLAcsIB/aq9+BXcTB9fAtus= =qepL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
Jeremy Huntwork wrote:
> William Harrington wrote:
>
>> I think it'd be a good idea to post this to all the mailing lists
>> than just this one.
>>
>
> Well, I did lfs-dev, lfs-chat, and livecd. You think there's bound to be
> more users not covered on the other lists?
>
> --
> JH
>
>
>
I haven't used a LiveCD, so can't offer any feedback i'm afraid, but i
thought i'd suggest that posting to the lfs-support list strikes me as
the place most likely to draw attention (i'm only currently registered
on {,b}lfs-dev & -support)...
hth, taipan
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Re: LiveCD Users
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:29:52 -0600 Jeremy Huntwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The LiveCD project rarely hears much back from its end users, unless > Of course any other thoughts or comments are welcome. We really just > need to get an idea of how useful our project is to the community. If > it's too much work to answer the above, just a short reply saying you > use the CD would be helpful, too. Whilst I applaud and support the LiveCD project, I don't use the 'product' myself, but I thought, for completeness, and out of respect for the developers, that I should say why. Read CLFS for LFS, I use them both on occasion, but mostly jhalfs+clfs-svn these days. 1) It ruins the fun of discovering if LFS will build on a new machine. This isn't true really, but it seems to me that some of the frison of that first boot is lost. 2) Once I've got a rudimentary LFS running, then I would use that to bootstrap the next model. Although LFS has gotten so good and reliable these days that it almost always: 'just works'. Is there an advantage to using the LiveCD as the base of the bootstrap? 3) Once, when I used a LiveCD (one of the original LiveCDs 2002-ish, I can't remember whose), all I did was copy it to the hard disk and then fiddle 'till it worked. I didn't then build a native LFS for it, but then it just ran the firewall - until last year! Where I think a LiveCD can be useful is to help find out the working baseline .config for the kernel, and maybe a starting position for xorg.conf, although that's less problematic these days. Of course if you've never run Linux before, and just have an Anti-trust (hint: starts with M) box, then the LiveCD would be a revelation. But, writing my memoirs, I recollect throwing all my Anti-trust stuff out after returning from a business trip to Redmond in 2001 - I remember showering a lot too. (unrestricted submarine warfare is not an acceptable business ethic) :-) R. LFS #207 -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Jul 17, 2007, at 11:22 PM, Jeremy Huntwork wrote: > William Harrington wrote: >> I think it'd be a good idea to post this to all the mailing lists >> than just this one. > > Well, I did lfs-dev, lfs-chat, and livecd. You think there's bound > to be > more users not covered on the other lists? Guess we better give it about 72 hours! William -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
William Harrington wrote: > I think it'd be a good idea to post this to all the mailing lists > than just this one. Well, I did lfs-dev, lfs-chat, and livecd. You think there's bound to be more users not covered on the other lists? -- JH -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: LiveCD Users
On Jul 17, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Jeremy Huntwork wrote: > Hello, > > I'm aware that this is perhaps a little off-topic for the -dev > list, but > I feel that this thread could really help future development of the > CD, > so please bear with me and help me out with as much feedback as you > can > muster. :) > > The LiveCD project rarely hears much back from its end users, unless > someone has a problem booting, or understanding how to use the CD, or > having trouble building LFS (in which case they're talking to the > wrong > list anyway). > > The effect is that we really have no idea who uses the CD, how useful > certain features/aspects of it are, what things may need to be > improved > and so on. So please, if you use the LFS LiveCD, please reply to this > thread (on whatever list you read it), and if possible, provide the > following info: I think it'd be a good idea to post this to all the mailing lists than just this one. Sincerely, William -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
LiveCD Users
Hello, I'm aware that this is perhaps a little off-topic for the -dev list, but I feel that this thread could really help future development of the CD, so please bear with me and help me out with as much feedback as you can muster. :) The LiveCD project rarely hears much back from its end users, unless someone has a problem booting, or understanding how to use the CD, or having trouble building LFS (in which case they're talking to the wrong list anyway). The effect is that we really have no idea who uses the CD, how useful certain features/aspects of it are, what things may need to be improved and so on. So please, if you use the LFS LiveCD, please reply to this thread (on whatever list you read it), and if possible, provide the following info: 1) What version of the CD do you use/have? 2) What do you use the CD most for? 3) What are the most useful parts of the CD to you? 4) What is the most annoying or useless bits of the CD? 5) What would you change/add/improve? Of course any other thoughts or comments are welcome. We really just need to get an idea of how useful our project is to the community. If it's too much work to answer the above, just a short reply saying you use the CD would be helpful, too. Thanks in advance, -- JH -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
