[liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
Hi! Now that I received a BRCK, I discovered that it is made by Brck inc., a for-profit company. Am I the only one who feels tricked by Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit? If I cite from from the campaign: > Who are we? > Ushahidi, is a non-profit technology company that builds open source > software, tools that democratize information for ordinary people. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1776324009/brck-your-backup-generator-for-the-internet I found this blog post explaining that: > BRCK’s founding team has a long history of making an impact – from Ushahidi > to the iHub. BRCK is of the same ethos as these other ventures, but a > different business model. BRCK is a for-profit company. http://www.brck.com/2014/07/ But this was nowhere explained in the Kickstarter campaign. It seems Kickstarter campaign was misleading? http://forums.brck.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-feels-tricked-by-the-kickstarter-campaign-thinking-that-brck-will-be-non-profit/297 Mitar -- http://mitar.tnode.com/ https://twitter.com/mitar_m -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
I don't know if anyone else feels misled but you're being a bit of a jerk in the forum posts to which you link. Try being polite to them and having an actual conversation, not just a rant directed at them. -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
No, I don't. Most people don't realize that: a) nonprofit = Not-*for*-profit corporation b) It is a tax status, not a organizational structure. c) It is really, really hard to scale not-for-profit hardware (particularly vs. software, which isn't easy, either) The mission of an entity is more important than it's tax status, which is mandated by the government, can change and is about people's personal tax benefits and whether the entity pays taxes or not, because it is working on an issue that benefit the general welfare, or is religious, or educational. -Richard --- Richard Graves t: 202-372-6756 t: @RichardGraves On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Al Billings wrote: > I don't know if anyone else feels misled but you're being a bit of a jerk > in the forum posts to which you link. Try being polite to them and having > an actual conversation, not just a rant directed at them. > -- > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations > of list guidelines will get you moderated: > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at > compa...@stanford.edu. > > -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
Thank you Richard. Very well put. I wish more people understood things so clearly. Many very smart people somehow believe tax status distinguishes Good from Evil, completely ignoring a wealth of counter examples. Some of the most glaring: SpaceX and MPAA. Foundations in particular have really bad "no for-profits" rules that hurt some of the most viable and promising solutions they want to fund. Maybe the issue there is their tax exemption may be put at risk. Perhaps these misconceptions may wane as money gets decentralized and small oligarchies control finance less. — Sent from Mailbox On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Richard Graves wrote: > No, I don't. > Most people don't realize that: > a) nonprofit = Not-*for*-profit corporation > b) It is a tax status, not a organizational structure. > c) It is really, really hard to scale not-for-profit hardware (particularly > vs. software, which isn't easy, either) > The mission of an entity is more important than it's tax status, which is > mandated by the government, can change and is about people's personal tax > benefits and whether the entity pays taxes or not, because it is working on > an issue that benefit the general welfare, or is religious, or educational. > -Richard > --- > Richard Graves > t: 202-372-6756 > t: @RichardGraves > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Al Billings wrote: >> I don't know if anyone else feels misled but you're being a bit of a jerk >> in the forum posts to which you link. Try being polite to them and having >> an actual conversation, not just a rant directed at them. >> -- >> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations >> of list guidelines will get you moderated: >> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. >> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at >> compa...@stanford.edu. >> >>-- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
Hi! On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Juan Batiz-Benet wrote: > Thank you Richard. Very well put. I wish more people understood things so > clearly. Many very smart people somehow believe tax status distinguishes > Good from Evil, completely ignoring a wealth of counter examples. Some of > the most glaring: SpaceX and MPAA. OK. I would just add to this that what I am talking about is not the question if a project is for-profit or not for-profit. This is really for them to decide how they want to wrap it into an organization. There are advantages and disadvantages to any of these forms, both tax and other questions, like ways how to raise funding. And of course non-profits do not mean that they are "good" by itself. They can be misused as well. And I think what makes an organization "good" are mostly other things, not for-profit status. What I am concerned is that they did not explain this initially. If they would, I would decide differently. Not because non-profits are "better", but exactly because non-profits have harder time raising funding otherwise and I like to help a little to overcome that. This is where I see crowdfunding an important part of this landscape. Being possible to get funding from the community and then being responsible to the community. Which is what I think is one of main aspects of "good" organization which is trying to make a positive social change. Now, they looked like they are non-profit, but then decided to turn for-profit exactly for exactly those reasons: it is hard to raise money as for-profit. I understand that, but for me it feels like double dipping. I do understand that for some people this is not a concern, because we all contribute to crowdfunding campaigns for different reasons. But what I wanted to do is mostly see what others are thinking about this. And I am glad to be getting responses. It seems I am the only one concerned about this, but this is also good. If people believe that anything goes approach works, just that you get funding and projects off the ground, why not. Personally, I will be more careful next time and everything is OK. I am also learning. :-) Mitar -- http://mitar.tnode.com/ https://twitter.com/mitar_m -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
Hi! An addendum: They also reached to me and we talked over Skype about this issue. I really think that they are doing a great job and have many more problems than companies in Bay Area. Raising money for them as a company from Africa is really hard and they have hard time getting investments. Getting big support from the community through crowdfunding made easier for them to get investors, so this is also something interesting to see how crowdfunding can help as a signal to investors. I do understand that sometimes it is hard to plan in advance and when faced with hard decision of maybe not being able to continue the project if you do not change your tax status and ways you fund the project. And you cannot always know this in advance. But then maybe we are missing ways as a community to address such challenges. And allow projects to live and thrive without having to cut part of their income as a profit for investors. Mitar On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Mitar wrote: > Hi! > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Juan Batiz-Benet wrote: >> Thank you Richard. Very well put. I wish more people understood things so >> clearly. Many very smart people somehow believe tax status distinguishes >> Good from Evil, completely ignoring a wealth of counter examples. Some of >> the most glaring: SpaceX and MPAA. > > OK. I would just add to this that what I am talking about is not the > question if a project is for-profit or not for-profit. This is really > for them to decide how they want to wrap it into an organization. > There are advantages and disadvantages to any of these forms, both tax > and other questions, like ways how to raise funding. And of course > non-profits do not mean that they are "good" by itself. They can be > misused as well. And I think what makes an organization "good" are > mostly other things, not for-profit status. > > What I am concerned is that they did not explain this initially. If > they would, I would decide differently. Not because non-profits are > "better", but exactly because non-profits have harder time raising > funding otherwise and I like to help a little to overcome that. This > is where I see crowdfunding an important part of this landscape. Being > possible to get funding from the community and then being responsible > to the community. Which is what I think is one of main aspects of > "good" organization which is trying to make a positive social change. > > Now, they looked like they are non-profit, but then decided to turn > for-profit exactly for exactly those reasons: it is hard to raise > money as for-profit. I understand that, but for me it feels like > double dipping. I do understand that for some people this is not a > concern, because we all contribute to crowdfunding campaigns for > different reasons. > > But what I wanted to do is mostly see what others are thinking about > this. And I am glad to be getting responses. It seems I am the only > one concerned about this, but this is also good. If people believe > that anything goes approach works, just that you get funding and > projects off the ground, why not. Personally, I will be more careful > next time and everything is OK. I am also learning. :-) > > > Mitar > > -- > http://mitar.tnode.com/ > https://twitter.com/mitar_m -- http://mitar.tnode.com/ https://twitter.com/mitar_m -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Am I the only one who feels tricked by the Kickstarter campaign thinking that BRCK will be non-profit?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014, at 00:35, Mitar wrote: > Hi! > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Juan Batiz-Benet wrote: > > Thank you Richard. Very well put. I wish more people understood things so > > clearly. Many very smart people somehow believe tax status distinguishes > > Good from Evil, completely ignoring a wealth of counter examples. Some of > > the most glaring: SpaceX and MPAA. > > OK. I would just add to this that what I am talking about is not the > question if a project is for-profit or not for-profit. This is really > for them to decide how they want to wrap it into an organization. > There are advantages and disadvantages to any of these forms, both tax > and other questions, like ways how to raise funding. And of course > non-profits do not mean that they are "good" by itself. They can be > misused as well. And I think what makes an organization "good" are > mostly other things, not for-profit status. > > What I am concerned is that they did not explain this initially. If > they would, I would decide differently. Not because non-profits are > "better", but exactly because non-profits have harder time raising > funding otherwise and I like to help a little to overcome that. This > is where I see crowdfunding an important part of this landscape. Being > possible to get funding from the community and then being responsible > to the community. I wonder if equity crowdfunding would improve the "responsible to the community" part. Unlike regular crowdfunding, equity crowdfunding is like a mini-IPO with a lot less overhead. Contributors buy shares in the venture. The owners are responsible to shareholders. The idea is gaining a lot of traction in the startup space, but could offer a useful structure for funding less-profitable ventures as well. Jens -- J.M. Porup www.JMPorup.com -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
