Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
carlo von lynX l...@pirates.are.psyced.org wrote: On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 08:15:04AM -0500, Anthony Papillion wrote: The bottom line is that, bug or not, privacy conscious people need to simply stay away from Google. And I don't mean just Google Search or Chat. I mean /all/ of Google, Everything they offer. AFAICT that's not enough. You need to make sure the cookies are grilled because every single googleapisomething using scripts, fonts etc from the google cdn may like to fingerprint you as you pick the stuff up. even if you grill the cookies your combination of browser, ip, screen resolution etc is enough. so either you filter google domains entirely, or you use tor combined with a cookie filter. btw, does anyone have suitable privoxy filters? i tried to write some radical reject-all-google-domains rules, but they don't work. not only are all browsers p0wned by google, even privoxy is.. ;-D Please have a look at: http://www.privoxy.org/user-manual/contact.html From your description it's unclear to me what you did, what you expected Privoxy to do and what Privoxy actually did. A definition of p0wned by google would be great, too. Fabian -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 05/09/2014 06:13 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: On May 9, 2014, at 4:42, Ximin Luo infini...@pwned.gg wrote: On 09/05/14 02:31, Anthony Papillion wrote: On 05/08/2014 08:23 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy privacy and anonymity while the second group will be pretty much at the mercy of whoever can figure out how to access their data. Please stop moaning and do something about it instead. I don't see it as moaning. If we are going to fight back, we need to look at reality. The reality us that I can write all the software I want and I can rah-rah team all day but none of that is going to make people care or get invested in their own privacy. I'd really like to see an easy-to-use piece of software that analyzes a body of text and warns on potential sexism. Warning: you've been consistently using female imagery to describe unwanted behavior, and male imagery for desired behavior. Continue? I'm sure I've done it, too. But here's it's particularly distracting, because there aren't that many steps necessary to help get people invested in their own privacy: 1) get up from your computer 2) go to where non-technical people are 3) listen to them 4) find the (admittedly small) subset of usable privacy-preserving software that will fit their needs 5) set it up for them or at least show them how it works Here's an exercise: fill your subset from #4 with a single piece of software-- the Tor Browser Bundle. Over the next week keep your ears peeled for a non-technical user making a joke about Google or the government knowing what they search for. (This could be a joke in a conversation about a search term setting off a flag, what Google knows about their porn habits, etc.) After the joke, tell them about TBB. When you get the next joke about being targetted _because_ one is using Tor, tell them how many people use it. Demonstrate your own casual use of it. Show them how it can help them be safer when they want to browse on a wifi connection at a cafe or at the airport. Showing people who trust you how to use privacy tools on the internet actually _changes_ the way they talk about privacy. Consequently it will change the way you think about non-technical users. -Jonathan -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 08:31:24PM -0500, anth...@cajuntechie.org wrote 3.0K bytes in 0 lines about: : I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided : into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take : the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those : who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy I've heard this same sentiment for 15 years by friends in the global financial industries. They lament that everything you do with currency is tracked and recorded, bought and sold, and only the minority understand how to opt-out. Debit cards, credit cards, and the like an Orwellian plot, financial dystopia is here, etc, etc, etc. The financially literate understand how to protect their privacy and take the sometimes inconvenient steps to do so. This group is in the minority. Those that care, continue to share, learn, and help those who weren't aware of the alternatives. Don't give up the fight so quickly. -- Andrew pgp 0x6B4D6475 -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 09/05/14 02:31, Anthony Papillion wrote: On 05/08/2014 08:23 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy privacy and anonymity while the second group will be pretty much at the mercy of whoever can figure out how to access their data. Please stop moaning and do something about it instead. -- GPG: 4096R/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE git://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
To not pollute the list I respond to 4 interesting authors in a single mail! On 05/09/2014 03:23 AM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? http://youbroketheinternet.org and the Wau Holland Stiftung behind it are somehow naively trying to make suitable projects interact in a way that at least one new Internet stack comes out of it. There is a map on the site that mentions the various projects and there are video presentations of many of them. Once realized, the new stack would need to get deployed to humanity, which I think is much more feasible than people think - after all smartphones got out there, too, and, at the beginning, the new network operates as an overlay over the old, so it installs like an app. I2P and Orbot are already taking that step now. I personally work on secushare which helps GNUnet out on the upper scalability and applicability layers. Or is it over? We lost all the other media From my perspective of potential technologies I say it is very much in our hands. It doesn't even take enormous efforts, just a bit more attention to the folks that are doing the job. The problem is that most people have difficulty telling which ones are the ones doing the job that is actually needed, and which are investing huge amounts of time in infrastructure that won't do, faling pray to the fallacy that an upgrade of something existing has better chances of getting deployed - history has not confirmed that thinking. The GNU Internet will spread like some new app and people will spend less and less time in the old one. In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google As long as the Internet is itself agile, these things can change faster than you think. Myspace and Compuserve were big too. And Napster. Not as huge, but.. if we deploy a GNU Internet, it could come with a web browser that treats privacy better than Google's Chrome and Firefox offerings.. the you can use Search and Youtube more safely. At the same time the GNU Internet could develop proper distributed search and video distribution without involving any companies. E-Mail would be gone and replaced since it cannot be secured properly. The challenge is to be able to distribute essential software without getting tangled up with special interest. Maybe the Tor model works. Android however remains a tricky issue. You can't just fix that by installing an app. All of hardware and operating systems is a difficult issue really.. luckily those are not the vectors for bulk surveillance. And if they became so, judges would be able to rule as it would no longer be passive surveillance. On 05/09/2014 03:31 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. Actually there has been a slight cognitive advancement in the last year.. we went from I have nothing to hide to But what could I possibly do? Our infrastructure is a mess, what people can do is learn to use difficult to use protection software, that falls open when they fail to use it right. That won't work, ever. You can make all the crypto parties you like and write easy to learn PGP instructions at no end. Some week ago at a YBTI presentation I asked a hacker audience how many do OTR. Most hands went up. Then I asked how many of them have at least one contact they do opportunistic OTR with because they don't have the patience to share secrets or check fingerprints. Same show of hands. But what could I possibly do? needs to be answered with install this new Internet. It works slightly different than the old, but you'll get used to it. It is actually easier. You can forget all about addresses and @ signs. You don't even need to be able to read and write any longer. All you need to do is learn how to do the bluetooth handshake or QR code scan. Or how to add a friend from somebody else's friend list like you already do on Facebook. That software doesn't exist yet, but from what I can tell all the open
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On May 9, 2014, at 4:42, Ximin Luo infini...@pwned.gg wrote: On 09/05/14 02:31, Anthony Papillion wrote: On 05/08/2014 08:23 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy privacy and anonymity while the second group will be pretty much at the mercy of whoever can figure out how to access their data. Please stop moaning and do something about it instead. I don't see it as moaning. If we are going to fight back, we need to look at reality. The reality us that I can write all the software I want and I can rah-rah team all day but none of that is going to make people care or get invested in their own privacy. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 05/09/2014 05:42 AM, Ximin Luo wrote: Please stop moaning and do something about it instead. Indeed. everyone take a deep breath, and repeat after me... Cypherpunks WRITE CODE Do it! -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
[liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. Thanks Nariman -- PGP: 084F 95C0 BD1B B15A 129C 90DB A539 6393 6999 CBB6 www.NARIMAN.Tel -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
I think if you are concerned about privacy, Google is the last provider of chat or email you should use. There are plenty of providers that take privacy seriously, shop around. Regards, David On 05/08/2014 08:05 AM, Nariman Gharib wrote: Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. Thanks Nariman -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
Plain text or encrypted? El 08/05/2014 15:06, Nariman Gharib nariman...@gmail.com escribió: Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. Thanks Nariman -- PGP: 084F 95C0 BD1B B15A 129C 90DB A539 6393 6999 CBB6 www.NARIMAN.Tel -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 08/05/14 14:05, Nariman Gharib wrote: Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com http://plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. Thanks Nariman -- PGP: 084F 95C0 BD1B B15A 129C 90DB A539 6393 6999 CBB6 www.NARIMAN.Tel http://www.NARIMAN.Tel Confusingly, Google Talk's off the record option has NO relation to the end-to-end encrypted OTR that we know about. I am surprised that the chat history is still visible to users, though. To use OTR with Google Talk, you need to use a 3rd-party program like the ones mentioned on http://otr.cypherpunks.ca/ X -- GPG: 4096R/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE git://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/08/2014 08:05 AM, Nariman Gharib wrote: Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. The bottom line is that, bug or not, privacy conscious people need to simply stay away from Google. And I don't mean just Google Search or Chat. I mean /all/ of Google, Everything they offer. We need to remember that there are two things about Google that make them particularly dangerous to privacy: 1) They are largely an advertising company that wraps cool tech around their ad platform and 2) It seems they have a fairly close relationship with the United States government. Those two things mean that Google probably doesn't really have your privacy as its main concern - well, not totally. Do I believe Google is secure against hackers? Absolutely. But that's as far as I'd be willing to comfortably extend the word 'security'. TL;DR: If you value your privacy, don't use Google. They aren't the only game in town and they don't really protect your privacy. Anthony - -- Anthony Papillion SIP: 17772471...@callcentric.com XMPP: cypherp...@chat.cpunk.us PGP Key: 0x53B04B15 Phone:(845) 842-2043 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTa4NYAAoJEAKK33RTsEsVpYMP/01M8GaSB0dg9uoIYxtbJ0L9 sCMvW+68lbIb8POsMWTad9lw5lc8+ef18bH2YpBpbMhf6jhQS3C0qsW46oM/sYUm nX63Z0R7ADGV6OPIesalmP4MQoaupHncRzHguWxPcVFfPX0NsfdPfc8SK5A1mr1F OfX23ibdzUZOqYa3X+BzgkJrLA91l5xzRU0VSuEFX/s8JwA5u5uZ1LnnRf1m2iSt BsvsjpNxGTfLaqT+fzCoHoG8sAFOolvK1nVt1yKRZAf1wD5gOdOUy5LfA3DMnq51 lCDiwUJtLMwfn8msnbEPZ+IUyF8BtTipo17XfSFh3bdicc3L/f5Rj19ZFnY1QrjJ pez1ArfWMl5OcTQcJA+gqalB5eH+s90ff7hF+CC10lAgCm2sZtYR+DuWYnk9OJWM r1zAUMMI4xQyh8jDi4meZRZsKyoEtFaDvEqZr9KR9zMJBy5lAKnzduR/pnQSKyT7 4AXRHnQkuss1jxmhJZPsch9D81pq7xJSWV8xxKbkiV7LO4jfeyvkCkCrfLCCjGl+ u6dccfRudrTvvvxIRrzsQ7xzluxJGMltZpDoiKbQI/rgbmqNIDIgm/Jhl40G7pG5 9m/Zmaj3gRw0FNgkwvJiSOtYFfXpBKBMdYCYRmt0BF0mh1o7Sacjao17SvbZqZ+s rL+5OvqQpYLzrQ82L40X =z4LL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 08/05/14 14:14, Ximin Luo wrote: On 08/05/14 14:05, Nariman Gharib wrote: Hey all, Just I want to remind you, Gmail is keeping your chat history even you enable the OTR on your gmail chat. how? if you going to plus.google.com http://plus.google.com and on the top right side of the page you click on the Hangout, and then select a person who you talked to him recently, you can see your all chat history is come up! you can delete manually your chat history from there too, but too sides should do the same things. I don't know after these things Google will keep our chat history or not!!! but I think this is a bug in Gmail service. Thanks Nariman -- PGP: 084F 95C0 BD1B B15A 129C 90DB A539 6393 6999 CBB6 www.NARIMAN.Tel http://www.NARIMAN.Tel Confusingly, Google Talk's off the record option has NO relation to the end-to-end encrypted OTR that we know about. I am surprised that the chat history is still visible to users, though. To use OTR with Google Talk, you need to use a 3rd-party program like the ones mentioned on http://otr.cypherpunks.ca/ What Ximin said. Google's Off the record is misleading. You need to use additional software to protect your chats BEFORE Google gets your words. Slide #3 of https://apapadop.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/otr1.pdf reinforces this message. Full tutorial on how to stop Google recording your chats: https://apapadop.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/stop-google-recording-your-chats/ (a bit dusty, but should still work) -A -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 08:15:04AM -0500, Anthony Papillion wrote: The bottom line is that, bug or not, privacy conscious people need to simply stay away from Google. And I don't mean just Google Search or Chat. I mean /all/ of Google, Everything they offer. AFAICT that's not enough. You need to make sure the cookies are grilled because every single googleapisomething using scripts, fonts etc from the google cdn may like to fingerprint you as you pick the stuff up. even if you grill the cookies your combination of browser, ip, screen resolution etc is enough. so either you filter google domains entirely, or you use tor combined with a cookie filter. btw, does anyone have suitable privoxy filters? i tried to write some radical reject-all-google-domains rules, but they don't work. not only are all browsers p0wned by google, even privoxy is.. ;-D -- http://youbroketheinternet.org ircs://psyced.org/youbroketheinternet -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 05/08/2014 07:06 PM, carlo von lynX wrote: On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 08:15:04AM -0500, Anthony Papillion wrote: The bottom line is that, bug or not, privacy conscious people need to simply stay away from Google. And I don't mean just Google Search or Chat. I mean /all/ of Google, Everything they offer. AFAICT that's not enough. You need to make sure the cookies are grilled because every single googleapisomething using scripts, fonts etc from the google cdn may like to fingerprint you as you pick the stuff up. even if you grill the cookies your combination of browser, ip, screen resolution etc is enough. so either you filter google domains entirely, or you use tor combined with a cookie filter. Is Tor with NoScript turned on globally enough? -Jonathan -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google On May 8, 2014, at 4:06 PM, carlo von lynX wrote: On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 08:15:04AM -0500, Anthony Papillion wrote: The bottom line is that, bug or not, privacy conscious people need to simply stay away from Google. And I don't mean just Google Search or Chat. I mean /all/ of Google, Everything they offer. AFAICT that's not enough. You need to make sure the cookies are grilled because every single googleapisomething using scripts, fonts etc from the google cdn may like to fingerprint you as you pick the stuff up. even if you grill the cookies your combination of browser, ip, screen resolution etc is enough. so either you filter google domains entirely, or you use tor combined with a cookie filter. btw, does anyone have suitable privoxy filters? i tried to write some radical reject-all-google-domains rules, but they don't work. not only are all browsers p0wned by google, even privoxy is.. ;-D -- http://youbroketheinternet.org ircs://psyced.org/youbroketheinternet -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. Douglas Schuler doug...@publicsphereproject.org https://twitter.com/doug_schuler -- Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Creating the World Citizen Parliament http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2tid=11601 -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/08/2014 08:23 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy privacy and anonymity while the second group will be pretty much at the mercy of whoever can figure out how to access their data. Anthony - -- Anthony Papillion SIP: 17772471...@callcentric.com XMPP: cypherp...@chat.cpunk.us PGP Key: 0x53B04B15 Phone:(845) 842-2043 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTbC/sAAoJEAKK33RTsEsV3kkP/0xrLWhDHeNULU3fIktrO/JT wtCJErV/+KJ/eodtoa1r46w4Pyq+5WQO3S6oI64y6XQCBDD9UZa+yPS/tNlp+lMS uqwhmPqqBWPG88LWCrpcmppGzjkuAkh67LfgSqo3l7WVg9XogYWdnpd4W+nQMOfq fJcHtLfinVR6PDvzkbA+J+Z4VxEmx2GUqE+kCKWg2IfAwZDGyhYRA2lM+GfMtod/ 8JmlbppMLOVVSzt7IJtWHobjINwk7RmNJa+MZDRSGY49dT3JLmzPCJxgIVjy+RuT 9e0wxGN1S0k1qIEEDP5tvK/U2ehXJJMH3EtK6pAWgqvoYqPuDBZn8dKjcid43fS1 rUypj9PPh4/JneU/1Kk41eBN6o4DKWtaZKA4w9zSQOsKOoNfv8VXqvnvSB7ZA9rU ADqpRQ+/GFwRgF5d05oFH17rVtVJP2pH1KpenmWdV5EEK0MGFBm2pMIWP+HO971u MHFkccsUX2+WfwJ9mcIRUZToyeexA5P3effCO4mN1WMEQe4Lk0EtOufcqLj9oXs9 TzxxVFZ+0dpvJh9UvJh5Hfol5peEAy8Or//ZkYh9UdqaalbBaWvMLTqAVPdoMFrg 6jZSQ7ui8FvKLfVvyc3AcrVjg4RCU8YFQ795PGYOqtQrAnTgcNpFvBMDMNB8HhvA 1OEM7Ix29T4VeqDzo4kp =6rBG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Google keeps the chat history even you enabled the OTR
On 05/08/2014 09:31 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/08/2014 08:23 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: Realistically we need to develop an entire suite of publicly owned tools. Could the development and implementation be massively distributed? Or is it over? We lost all the other media In just a few short years, starting in 1998, this company has grown to employ almost 50,000 people worldwide, generated sixty billion dollars in revenue last year, and has a current market capitalization of more than 350 billion dollars. Google is not only the biggest search engine in the world, but along with Youtube (the second biggest search engine in the world) it also has the largest video platform, with Chrome the biggest browser, with Gmail the most widely used e-mail provider, and with Android the biggest operating system for mobile devices. From: An open letter to Eric Schmidt: Why we fear Google I fear we've already lost. I used to think that it would just take some sort of major scandal to wake people up to the fact that relinquishing their privacy wasn't such a good idea. Then, I thought, they'd stand up in outrage and take their privacy back with pitchforks. You could only say such a thing if you completely ignore entire categories of software development like documentation and usability-improvements to the same extent that companies like Google and Apple embrace them. Then Snowden showed up and nothing really happened. Most people didn't actually change the things they do because, well, it's not convenient. Not only is it not convenient, it is dangerous. How is the non-technical user supposed to judge whether the implementation of a piece of privacy-preserving software lives up to its claims? Especially if technical users like yourself have given up? [if I weren't lazy, I'd have links here to stories about that silly app that claimed to erase the pictures permanently after the recipient viewed them for a couple of seconds]. Anyway, convenience vs. privacy is a false dichotomy. For certain designs like Tor, that dichotomy would be self-defeating: the more convenient it is to run the Tor Browser Bundle, the larger and more diverse the potential userbase can be. That's a good thing for both convenience and privacy. User-facing tools _must_ possess both to be at all effective. So if you aren't truly self-defeated yet, please do find a non-technical user that fits your apparent bias and use your expertise to teach them to use Tor to read the web. Perhaps like me you'll find you've revealed a coping strategy and replaced it in the user's repertoire with a privacy-preserving tool. I see a future where the world, not just the digital world, is divided into two camps: those who are technically literate and willing to take the sometimes inconvenient steps to protect their privacy and those who aren't. The first group will be in the minority but will enjoy privacy and anonymity while the second group will be pretty much at the mercy of whoever can figure out how to access their data. If you think of yourself in the former camp then you _really_ ought to be out there teaching people to use Tor. In a surveillance state a tiny minority of anonymous literati are anything but anonymous (and, therefore, probably not literate either). -Jonathan -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
