[liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
The server farm where Liberté Linux site is hosted is apparently blocked by ATT in the USA. Isn't this unusual? I was under impression that ISP censorship in the USA is limited to SMTP ports and such. “We have recently received numerous reports from att users regarding connection problems. It appears that att has blocked our entire IP range for yet unknown reasons. We have contacted att requesting to unblock it, but have not received any positive reply yet. You could try to contact att support regarding this issue in hopes to retrieve some more details or speed the process up. Thank you for your patience and understanding.” https://forum.dee.su/topic/site-down -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
I just had the guy next to me with a ATT phone try to access it and indeed he was unable. It is unusual. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on them mislabeling your server or server farm as a spam/malware serving site. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did block access to egregious malware sites, and you might have wound up on the list due to accidental operator or script mistake. -tom On 18 December 2013 11:05, Maxim Kammerer m...@dee.su wrote: The server farm where Liberté Linux site is hosted is apparently blocked by ATT in the USA. Isn't this unusual? I was under impression that ISP censorship in the USA is limited to SMTP ports and such. “We have recently received numerous reports from att users regarding connection problems. It appears that att has blocked our entire IP range for yet unknown reasons. We have contacted att requesting to unblock it, but have not received any positive reply yet. You could try to contact att support regarding this issue in hopes to retrieve some more details or speed the process up. Thank you for your patience and understanding.” https://forum.dee.su/topic/site-down -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
Confirming that the IP address where dee\.su is hosted has shown up on some lists of suspicious address. Example (not exclusive): see https://www.virustotal.com/en/ip-address/31.170.163.154/information/ On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Brian Conley bri...@smallworldnews.tv wrote: Have you contacted ATT support? Crying censorship is a bit early in this case don't you think? On Dec 18, 2013 9:03 AM, Maxim Kammerer m...@dee.su wrote: On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom Ritter t...@ritter.vg wrote: It is unusual. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on them mislabeling your server or server farm as a spam/malware serving site. Indeed, malware would also be my bet, and it is apparently the reason: http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/I-can-not-access-sites-from-000webhost/td-p/3842847 I still consider this weird. Perhaps such censorship is more acceptable for mobile Internet in the US, where all web access is proxified? Maybe the related Wikipedia article needs some updating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States#Telecommunications_and_Internet_service_companies -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Kyle Maxwell [krmaxw...@gmail.com] Twitter: @kylemaxwell -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Steve Weis stevew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Maxim. As another data point, the site works in the US via T-Mobile 4G. However, I get a certificate warning on your forum link. Yes, it's due to a CNAME — I would need to pay to Zoho to add forum.dee.su to the list of alternative names to disable the warning. It's harmless otherwise. Maxim, do you any evidence that there is intentional censorship due to site content? I doubt very much it's due to my site — it's a free hosting, and there is probably some malware on one of the virtual hosts on one of the IPs in the block. Before jumping to conclusions, I would first look for abuse originating from your servers. If they were compromised and being used to attack others, it's reasonable for a service provider to block them. These are not dedicated servers, at least where my site is hosted. In any case, you are saying “reasonable”, as if it's normal to block IPs on ISP side in the USA. I didn't know it's normal, but times might have changed. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
Maxim Kammerer wrote: The server farm where Liberté Linux site is hosted is apparently blocked by ATT in the USA. Isn't this unusual? Are websites being censored in the US? Yes. Is yours? Unlikely -- looks like it was lumped in with servers flagged for spam/malware activity. Improper website seizures have been ongoing for years, along with threats of legal action to service providers. It's typically aimed at those who are perceived to have limited power to fight back (hiphop blogs, small email providers). And if a service provider *does* decide to fight back, their hosting provider can be pressured into refusing them service, they can have serious trouble finding attorneys, and the whole process of protecting their property can bankrupt them. Most people don't fight back for long, if at all. Digital censorship is alive and well in the United States. ~Griffin -- Orwellian in the streets. Foucauldian in the sheets. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
Sure, it's clear you're not looking for a constructive outcome, just crying foul. I get that. In my experience contacting service providers works wonders. But you have to actually be motivated. I understand now that you mean it is technically censored, ie blocked on some devices. I'm more interested to know what the cause was, and whether it was due to malicious intent. Your initial email starting this thread implies malicious intent, yet you don't seem to have either A. done the research to determine that, nor B. be requesting support from others to understand and resolve the issue. It smacks of ridiculous privilege and a disconnect with the real risks and impact of censorship on people all over the world, folks I work with directly, as do many others on this list. Therefore, yes, it might seem a bit condescending that I responded that way to your somewhat ridiculous post. Of course ISPs censor content, particularly if the site is rightly or wrongly listed as a source of malware. I don't think that is unusual at all. I'm interested in an open and free internet, and reducing improper censorship. For that reason, I've reached out to @ATTCustomerCare on Twitter to request further information. I'd encourage anyone else on this list who is interested to see Liberte unblocked should do the same. On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Maxim Kammerer m...@dee.su wrote: On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Brian Conley bri...@smallworldnews.tv wrote: Have you contacted ATT support? Crying censorship is a bit early in this case don't you think? I use “censorship” as a technical term, and it is a fact that ATT censors the hoster's IP block. Also, it is not too early to claim censorship, as the ATT forum link above shows, since the problem persists for a while. I also don't see a reason to contact ATT, as I am not their customer, and evidence points to the company ignoring even the customers. In addition, I must say that I am not particularly moved by some US citizens not being able to access the site, so there is also a lack of motivation. Does the above address your condescending message in sufficient manner? -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Brian Conley Director, Small World News http://smallworldnews.tv m: 646.285.2046 Skype: brianjoelconley -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Brian Conley bri...@smallworldnews.tv wrote: Sure, it's clear you're not looking for a constructive outcome, just crying foul. I get that. No, I was trying to figure out whether blocking by IP at ISP level is par the course in the USA now. In my experience contacting service providers works wonders. Again, I posted a link to an ATT forum where customers are complaining about the issue for nearly a month. Try not to ignore what is written to you specifically. I'm more interested to know what the cause was, and whether it was due to malicious intent. As written previously ITT and in the ATT forum link above, it is pretty clear that the reason is malware hosted on the same IP block. Your initial email starting this thread implies malicious intent No, it does not, it implies censorship at ISP level. Of course ISPs censor content, particularly if the site is rightly or wrongly listed as a source of malware. I don't think that is unusual at all. In the USA, perhaps — it's not normal where I live, more so if the block is at the IP level, and not e.g., some kind of DNS redirection. Look, I understand that you are some kind of journalist, and as such probably have issues with critical thinking skills and with biased reading comprehension, but do try to understand that this is a thread about technical issues of Internet censorship in the US, and not about what should / should not be considered important propaganda-wise. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Brian Conley bri...@smallworldnews.tv wrote: As far as I can understand, of course ISPs block IP addresses they deem malicious, I'm not sure why that's bad practice? ISPs usually block their clients' IPs due to malware, although apparently it has become more common to block non-client IPs as well. Usually it is done in a user-friendly fashion — e.g., in June I have received a report that Shaw ISP in Canada blocked access to my site with a message similar to the following (but remote- instead of local-oriented): http://shaw.ca/virusprotection/. The problems with ATT's block above are obvious: 1. It is done stealthily, similar to GFC, and there is no message to the user. 2. ATT support is incompetent and blames DNS misconfiguration. 3. Blockage is too broad, big IP blocks are censored. 4. IPs are not unblocked even after the hoster fixes the issue. 5. There is no oversight (e.g., like with registry-based censorship in Russia), and ISPs can lie to / ignore their clients. 6. It is easy to use malware as an excuse for, e.g., authorities forcing some target site to move to a non-free provider, where the target can be traced via payments. How do you know it is not the case here? Of course, the country in question being the USA, everything is better explained by omnipresent incompetence, but this is still a possibility. Free hostings probably attract radical forums. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Website censorship in the US
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Maxim Kammerer m...@dee.su wrote: I doubt very much it's due to my site — it's a free hosting, and there is probably some malware on one of the virtual hosts on one of the IPs in the block. I think you answered your own question. You might have a bad neighbor who is getting your virtual host blacklisted. You might want to complain to your hosting provider or see if any other tenants are also impacted. -- Liberationtech is public archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
