subject:"\[liberationtech\] skype"

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On 03/22/2013 05:23 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/21/13 9:36 PM, Michael Carbone wrote:
>> Anyone looked into the reports that Skype leaks your IP address? 
>> Apparently you do not have to interact with the person whose
>> location you are interested in to be able to get their IP
>> address.
> 
> I think this is (still) the vulnerability Kieth Ross and his team
> at NYU-Poly found a few years ago... last I talked to him this
> particular flaw was still exploitable and hadn't been fixed:

That is definitely true. Basically, you can get the IP address the
account last logged in from. Do a search for 'Skype Resolver' and
you'll find a bunch of services that do this.

Here's one:
http://www.anonware.net/index.php?page=resolver

Put in the Skype username. If it fails, try again as it sometimes
messes up the first time. Apparently, Microsoft has not fixed this yet.

Anthony



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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-22 Thread Andreas Bader

Anthony Papillion:
> On 03/22/2013 05:23 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 3/21/13 9:36 PM, Michael Carbone wrote:
>>> Anyone looked into the reports that Skype leaks your IP
>>> address? Apparently you do not have to interact with the person
>>> whose location you are interested in to be able to get their
>>> IP address.
> 
>> I think this is (still) the vulnerability Kieth Ross and his
>> team at NYU-Poly found a few years ago... last I talked to him
>> this particular flaw was still exploitable and hadn't been
>> fixed:
> 
> That is definitely true. Basically, you can get the IP address the 
> account last logged in from. Do a search for 'Skype Resolver' and 
> you'll find a bunch of services that do this.
> 
> Here's one: http://www.anonware.net/index.php?page=resolver
> 
> Put in the Skype username. If it fails, try again as it sometimes 
> messes up the first time. Apparently, Microsoft has not fixed this
> yet.

Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?

Andreas
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Re: [liberationtech] skype

On 03/22/2013 02:21 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
> Anthony Papillion:
>> On 03/22/2013 05:23 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 3/21/13 9:36 PM, Michael Carbone wrote:
 Anyone looked into the reports that Skype leaks your IP
 address? Apparently you do not have to interact with the person
 whose location you are interested in to be able to get their
 IP address.
>>
>>> I think this is (still) the vulnerability Kieth Ross and his
>>> team at NYU-Poly found a few years ago... last I talked to him
>>> this particular flaw was still exploitable and hadn't been
>>> fixed:
>>
>> That is definitely true. Basically, you can get the IP address the 
>> account last logged in from. Do a search for 'Skype Resolver' and 
>> you'll find a bunch of services that do this.
>>
>> Here's one: http://www.anonware.net/index.php?page=resolver
>>
>> Put in the Skype username. If it fails, try again as it sometimes 
>> messes up the first time. Apparently, Microsoft has not fixed this
>> yet.
> 
> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?

Possibly. I've not read up on the details of it yet. But, regardless, it
does show that Skype leaks information that could be used in an attack.

How did it solve itself with ICQ?

Anthony

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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-22 Thread Andreas Bader

Anthony Papillion:
> On 03/22/2013 02:21 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
>> Anthony Papillion:
>>> On 03/22/2013 05:23 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 3/21/13 9:36 PM, Michael Carbone wrote:
> Anyone looked into the reports that Skype leaks your IP
> address? Apparently you do not have to interact with the person
> whose location you are interested in to be able to get their
> IP address.
>>>
 I think this is (still) the vulnerability Kieth Ross and his
 team at NYU-Poly found a few years ago... last I talked to him
 this particular flaw was still exploitable and hadn't been
 fixed:
>>>
>>> That is definitely true. Basically, you can get the IP address the 
>>> account last logged in from. Do a search for 'Skype Resolver' and 
>>> you'll find a bunch of services that do this.
>>>
>>> Here's one: http://www.anonware.net/index.php?page=resolver
>>>
>>> Put in the Skype username. If it fails, try again as it sometimes 
>>> messes up the first time. Apparently, Microsoft has not fixed this
>>> yet.
>>
>> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
>> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?
> 
> Possibly. I've not read up on the details of it yet. But, regardless, it
> does show that Skype leaks information that could be used in an attack.
> 
> How did it solve itself with ICQ?
I will say it in an easy way:
ICQ realized that they fucked up and fixed it.
Don't know how, but they got it.
But that happened 3 or 4 years before now.
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Re: [liberationtech] skype

On 03/22/2013 02:34 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
>>>
>>> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
>>> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?
>>
>> Possibly. I've not read up on the details of it yet. But, regardless, it
>> does show that Skype leaks information that could be used in an attack.
>>
>> How did it solve itself with ICQ?
> I will say it in an easy way:
> ICQ realized that they fucked up and fixed it.
> Don't know how, but they got it.
> But that happened 3 or 4 years before now.

Well, I certainly hope Microsoft realizes they 'fucked up' and follows
ICQ's lead. We'll see, I suppose.

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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-22 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall

On 3/22/13 3:21 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
> 
> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?

Not familiar with that hack...

This one essentially omits a few steps of the Skype client handshake and
the IP address is sent to the attacker without any notice to the target
Skype user. This is one reason I only keep skype on when I'm using it
and then make sure VPN before launching it.

best, Joe

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Re: [liberationtech] skype

On 03/22/2013 03:25 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/22/13 3:21 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
>>
>> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
>> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?
> 
> Not familiar with that hack...
> 
> This one essentially omits a few steps of the Skype client handshake and
> the IP address is sent to the attacker without any notice to the target
> Skype user. This is one reason I only keep skype on when I'm using it
> and then make sure VPN before launching it.

One thing to note is that this 'hack' gives the *last* IP that the user
logged in from (which, of course, might be the current IP if the user is
currently logged in). The user doesn't have to be logged in for it to
work. I just resolved mine and it gave me my IP address but I haven't
been logged on in two days.

Anthony

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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-22 Thread Andreas Bader

Anthony Papillion:
> On 03/22/2013 03:25 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/13 3:21 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
>>>
>>> Is this the same "Script Kiddie Hack" that was available for IQC a few
>>> years ago? Don't you think that will solve itself?
>>
>> Not familiar with that hack...
>>
>> This one essentially omits a few steps of the Skype client handshake and
>> the IP address is sent to the attacker without any notice to the target
>> Skype user. This is one reason I only keep skype on when I'm using it
>> and then make sure VPN before launching it.
> 
> One thing to note is that this 'hack' gives the *last* IP that the user
> logged in from (which, of course, might be the current IP if the user is
> currently logged in). The user doesn't have to be logged in for it to
> work. I just resolved mine and it gave me my IP address but I haven't
> been logged on in two days.
> 
> Anthony
> 
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> 

Here in Europe IPs mostly change every 24h. Some need more time.
If you are quick enough the IP change is no problem.

Andreas
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Re: [liberationtech] skype

On 03/22/2013 04:03 PM, Andreas Bader wrote:
> 
> Here in Europe IPs mostly change every 24h. Some need more time.
> If you are quick enough the IP change is no problem.

ISP's usually store the IP's they have assigned to customers for a
certain period of time. Even if your IP changes, there is an entry in a
database somewhere that notes what your IP was.  At the very least,
knowing your IP denotes what ISP you're on and (depending on how large
your ISP is) your locale.

I'm not trying to argue with you here. I just think it's a pretty big
deal that *anyone* can get your IP.

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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-30 Thread Rich Kulawiec

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:36:53PM -0700, Yosem Companys wrote:
> Rich, that's because you're not thinking like the average non-technical
> user, who usually does the following:

[snip thorough and IMHO, on-point analysis]

You make an excellent (series of) points.  And I have to concede that
you're right.

So let me refocus my comments on the efforts made (here and elsewhere)
to get Microsoft to cough up answers: can't everyone see that these
responses have been carefully wordsmithed within an inch of their lives
in what is an obvious and deliberate attempt to say as little as possible
and omit as much as possible?

Microsoft, like many corporations, employs professional spokesliars who
are very, very good at crafting wording that can be defended (should it
come to that) but which doesn't present the truth in a straightforward
fashion.  That's their JOB.  After all: anyone there could tell the truth
-- it's not hard.  But it takes a trained and practiced professional to
evade it, obscure it, conceal it, dance around it in convincing fashion --
and even use it in limited ways when it serves the purpose.

"A man who tells lies, like me, merely hides the truth.  But a
man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."
--- Mr. Dryden, "Lawrence of Arabia"

Microsoft is never, ever, ever going to provide full, honest, truthful
answers to these questions.  Why should they?  What's in it for them?
How would those answers make money for Microsoft?  (And if you think
for a moment that Microsoft has ANY corporate value other than "making
money", then you live in a different universe than I do.)

So what *is* the truth?  I dunno.

I think (and I emphasize "think", because I do not know) that Skype is
probably spyware.  I think it's got backdoors that have been designed
into it.  I think Microsoft has, is, and will hand over information on
Skype users, usage, and content to governments, including the United
States, but possibly including other ones.  I think that Skype has
probably also been cracked by other governments.  I think that it also
has security issues, some of which are known/partially-known, some
of which might be intentional.  I think that nobody should be using it
for any purpose ever.

That said, though, even if I'm right on all those points, that's not
going to stop people from using it.  And that's where *you're* right:
I wish you weren't, but you are, and I don't know how to fix that situation.

---rsk
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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-30 Thread hellekin

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On 03/30/2013 11:04 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> 
> Microsoft, like many corporations, employs professional spokesliars
> who are very, very good at crafting wording that can be defended
> (should it come to that) but which doesn't present the truth in a
> straightforward fashion.  That's their JOB.  After all: anyone
> there could tell the truth -- it's not hard.  But it takes a
> trained and practiced professional to evade it, obscure it, conceal
> it, dance around it in convincing fashion -- and even use it in
> limited ways when it serves the purpose.
> 
*** Too long for a tweet; awesome prose!

> 
> That said, though, even if I'm right on all those points, that's
> not going to stop people from using it.  And that's where *you're*
> right: I wish you weren't, but you are, and I don't know how to fix
> that situation.
> 
*** I don't know either, but Jitsi provides such a good alternative to
Skype that the only blocking "feature" is the social network: when
people using skype intensively decide to switch to Jitsi (or other
SIP-compatible clients), it's done. Is it merely a matter of marketing
and network effect? Is it a matter of promoting SIP services at ISP
level? How to beat the inertia of a bad habit?

==
hk
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Re: [liberationtech] skype

2013-03-30 Thread Anthony Papillion

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On 03/30/2013 07:23 PM, hellekin wrote:
> 
>> That said, though, even if I'm right on all those points, that's 
>> not going to stop people from using it.  And that's where
>> *you're* right: I wish you weren't, but you are, and I don't know
>> how to fix that situation.
> 
> *** I don't know either, but Jitsi provides such a good alternative
> to Skype that the only blocking "feature" is the social network:
> when people using skype intensively decide to switch to Jitsi (or
> other SIP-compatible clients), it's done. Is it merely a matter of
> marketing and network effect? Is it a matter of promoting SIP
> services at ISP level? How to beat the inertia of a bad habit?

Honestly, I don't think it's just a bad habit. It's apathy. Most
people don't really *care* if Microsoft or law enforcement listens in
or intercepts their communications. They've bought into the whole 'If
they're monitoring people, then those people must be doing something
wrong' and 'I have nothing to hide, why would I care?' mindsets.

I think the first step is to educate people as to why they should even
care. The next is to offer them a viable solution like Jitsi.

Anthony


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[liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese

2012-06-21 Thread frank

I just got the message below from a colleauge at NPR who discovered emails from "Skype Manager" in Chinese. I presume she should delete them. Anyone have any thoughts? Thank you. FSSubject: Skype messages in Chinese?Hi, ITSupport--I'm at home, trying to get over a bad cold, so I checked my emails today using mail.npr.org and see that I'm getting emails today from "Skype Manager" in Chinese today. Should I delete these messages without opening them?CarolFrank SmythExecutive DirectorGlobal Journalist Securityfr...@journalistsecurity.netT. + 1 202 244 0717C. + 1 202 352 1736Twitter: @JournoSecurityWebsite: www.journalistsecurity.netPlease consider our Earth before printing this email.Confidentiality Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and any copies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-21 Thread frank

That's helpful to have it spelled out so clearly. Thanks for posting it,
Jake. Frank


>  Original Message 
> Subject: [liberationtech] Skype redux
> From: Jacob Appelbaum 
> Date: Fri, December 21, 2012 2:49 am
> To: "liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu"
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
> about Skype:
> 
> 
> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
> 
> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
> Privacy Policy:
> 
> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
> 
> All the best,
> Jacob
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-21 Thread Christopher Soghoian

Jake,

The section of Skype's privacy policy that describes (with no real detail)
the assistance they provide to law enforcement agencies is exactly the same
text that was present before Microsoft bought the company.

(See, for example:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100701074213/http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/legal/privacy/general/
)

I am just as skeptical of Skype's security as anyone else on this list.
This lack of trust pre-dates the purchase by Microsoft.

I've tried, and failed over the years to get any data at all about Skype
and law enforcement surveillance from the company.

I have better relationship with Microsoft, who are surprisingly open with
me when discussing privacy and surveillance issues relating to
hotmail/live/outlook and Bing. Unfortunately, I've not been able to learn
anything from my existing contacts at Microsoft about Skype. That part of
the company seems to be continuing their long practice of secrecy regarding
surveillance issues.

Regards,

Chris

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
> about Skype:
>
>
>
> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
>
> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
> Privacy Policy:
>
> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
>
> All the best,
> Jacob
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-21 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

Skype is not only dangerous from a security by policy perspective, but is
also dangerous from a security by design perspective — whereas they promise
that conversations are encrypted, due to their closed-source nature this
encryption cannot be studied or verified.

There are certain other projects have unverifiable encryption claims (no
security by design,) but that go uncriticized due to good security by
policy. One of those projects has so far also avoided criticism, even
though it advocates itself as a secure Skype alternative *marketed
especially at activists in dangerous situations*, due to its creators being
good personal friends of many of the main critics in the security community.

That being said, there still does remain a few projects that offer
Skype-like functionality with *both* security by design and security by
policy:
Jitsi: https://jitsi.org/
Lumicall: http://www.lumicall.org/
RedPhone: http://www.whispersys.com/



NK


On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Christopher Soghoian wrote:

> Jake,
>
> The section of Skype's privacy policy that describes (with no real detail)
> the assistance they provide to law enforcement agencies is exactly the same
> text that was present before Microsoft bought the company.
>
> (See, for example:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100701074213/http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/legal/privacy/general/
> )
>
> I am just as skeptical of Skype's security as anyone else on this list.
> This lack of trust pre-dates the purchase by Microsoft.
>
> I've tried, and failed over the years to get any data at all about Skype
> and law enforcement surveillance from the company.
>
> I have better relationship with Microsoft, who are surprisingly open with
> me when discussing privacy and surveillance issues relating to
> hotmail/live/outlook and Bing. Unfortunately, I've not been able to learn
> anything from my existing contacts at Microsoft about Skype. That part of
> the company seems to be continuing their long practice of secrecy regarding
> surveillance issues.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
>> about Skype:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
>>
>> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
>> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
>> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
>> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
>> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
>> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
>> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
>> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
>> Privacy Policy:
>>
>> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
>> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
>> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
>> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
>> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
>> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Jacob
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-22 Thread Griffin Boyce

I wonder if the same team is still working on skype.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Christopher Soghoian 
 wrote:

> Unfortunately, I've not been able to learn anything from my existing
> contacts at Microsoft about Skype. That part of the company seems to be
> continuing their long practice of secrecy regarding surveillance issues.
>

I wonder if the same team is still working on skype.  If so, once the team
diversifies, it could change how open they are with regards to their
security/surveillance/secrecy issues.

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> Skype is not only dangerous from a security by policy perspective, but is
> also dangerous from a security by design perspective — whereas they promise
> that conversations are encrypted, due to their closed-source nature this
> encryption cannot be studied or verified.
>

Skype is the perfect storm of terrible security by policy, closed source,
documented vulnerabilities, and a large dependent userbase.  Going open
source doesn't solve everything, but it's a great start.

~Griffin

-- 
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What's the real difference between an eagle feather fan
and a pink necktie? Not much."
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-22 Thread Jacob Appelbaum

Christopher Soghoian:
> Jake,
> 
> The section of Skype's privacy policy that describes (with no real detail)
> the assistance they provide to law enforcement agencies is exactly the same
> text that was present before Microsoft bought the company.
> 

What was it before it was sold to Ebay or whatever companies owned it
before Ebay?

> (See, for example:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100701074213/http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/legal/privacy/general/
> )
> 
> I am just as skeptical of Skype's security as anyone else on this list.
> This lack of trust pre-dates the purchase by Microsoft.
> 

Oh, yes, I agree entirely. There was however a *huge* change in the
protocol and/or the network when they purchased it:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/

> I've tried, and failed over the years to get any data at all about Skype
> and law enforcement surveillance from the company.
> 

Have you found anything regarding how they take requests for data? For
example - a fax template? :)

> I have better relationship with Microsoft, who are surprisingly open with
> me when discussing privacy and surveillance issues relating to
> hotmail/live/outlook and Bing. Unfortunately, I've not been able to learn
> anything from my existing contacts at Microsoft about Skype. That part of
> the company seems to be continuing their long practice of secrecy regarding
> surveillance issues.
> 

Perhaps it would be worth an open letter?

All the best,
Jake

> Regards,
> 
> Chris
> 
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
>> about Skype:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
>>
>> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
>> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
>> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
>> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
>> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
>> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
>> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
>> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
>> Privacy Policy:
>>
>> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
>> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
>> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
>> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
>> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
>> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Jacob
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-22 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:

>
> Perhaps it would be worth an open letter?
>
>
This sounds like a great idea. I'm sure the EFF and many others would be on
board. There's no shortage of organizations that have gone hoarse warning
against Skype.


> All the best,
> Jake
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jacob Appelbaum  >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
> >> about Skype:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
> >>
> >> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
> >> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
> >> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
> >> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
> >> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
> >> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
> >> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
> >> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
> >> Privacy Policy:
> >>
> >> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
> >> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
> >> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
> >> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
> >> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
> >> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> Jacob
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> >> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-22 Thread Brian Conley

You should also include Guardian's projects:

Gibberbot
Ostel/ostn no?

That said, thus far, neither redphone nor those over listed rivals skype or
Google hangouts quality of transmission.

This is not meant to detract from them, its more a question, is a revenue
based model the only option to ensure high enough quality to attract users
and grow? If not, what else can be done to increase the quality of these
tools and ensure ongoing responsiveness to a user base that will demand
more and better features in future?
On Dec 22, 2012 2:43 AM, "Nadim Kobeissi"  wrote:

> Skype is not only dangerous from a security by policy perspective, but is
> also dangerous from a security by design perspective — whereas they promise
> that conversations are encrypted, due to their closed-source nature this
> encryption cannot be studied or verified.
>
> There are certain other projects have unverifiable encryption claims (no
> security by design,) but that go uncriticized due to good security by
> policy. One of those projects has so far also avoided criticism, even
> though it advocates itself as a secure Skype alternative *marketed
> especially at activists in dangerous situations*, due to its creators being
> good personal friends of many of the main critics in the security community.
>
> That being said, there still does remain a few projects that offer
> Skype-like functionality with *both* security by design and security by
> policy:
> Jitsi: https://jitsi.org/
> Lumicall: http://www.lumicall.org/
> RedPhone: http://www.whispersys.com/
>
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Christopher Soghoian 
> wrote:
>
>> Jake,
>>
>> The section of Skype's privacy policy that describes (with no real
>> detail) the assistance they provide to law enforcement agencies is exactly
>> the same text that was present before Microsoft bought the company.
>>
>> (See, for example:
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100701074213/http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/legal/privacy/general/
>> )
>>
>> I am just as skeptical of Skype's security as anyone else on this list.
>> This lack of trust pre-dates the purchase by Microsoft.
>>
>> I've tried, and failed over the years to get any data at all about Skype
>> and law enforcement surveillance from the company.
>>
>> I have better relationship with Microsoft, who are surprisingly open with
>> me when discussing privacy and surveillance issues relating to
>> hotmail/live/outlook and Bing. Unfortunately, I've not been able to learn
>> anything from my existing contacts at Microsoft about Skype. That part of
>> the company seems to be continuing their long practice of secrecy regarding
>> surveillance issues.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In light of the recent thread on journalism, I wanted to share this link
>>> about Skype:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/dec/china-listening-skype-microsoft-assumes-you-approve
>>>
>>> "With 250 million monthly connected users, Skype is one of the most
>>> popular services for making phone calls as well as chatting over the
>>> Internet. If you have friends, family or business contacts abroad,
>>> chances are you are using Skype to keep in contact. Having said that,
>>> you are probably not aware that all your phone calls and text chats can
>>> be monitored by the censorship authorities in China. And if you are
>>> aware, chances are that you do not consent to such surveillence.
>>> Microsoft, however, assumes that you do consent, as expressed in their
>>> Privacy Policy:
>>>
>>> "Skype, Skype's local partner, or the operator or company facilitating
>>> your communication may provide personal data, communications content
>>> and/or traffic data to an appropriate judicial, law enforcement or
>>> government authority lawfully requesting such information. Skype will
>>> provide reasonable assistance and information to fulfill this request
>>> and you hereby consent to such disclosure.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Jacob
>>> --
>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-23 Thread Moxie Marlinspike

On 12/22/2012 04:49 AM, Brian Conley wrote:
> That said, thus far, neither redphone nor those over listed rivals skype
> or Google hangouts quality of transmission.

Depends.  RedPhone's audio quality is (in general) substantially better
on Android than Skype's has been.  Skype's desktop audio quality is
probably better than RedPhone's, however.

I see this more as a desktop vs. android thing rather than a skype vs.
redphone thing.  Low-latency audio on Android is just hard, particularly
over mobile data networks.  It is true, however, that Skype has a much
larger engineering team than we do.

I like to think that RedPhone is getting better all the time, but if
this is something that you or anyone on this list is interested in, we'd
obviously welcome help improving things in any way that you can
contribute.  Please don't be shy about filing issues in the GitHub issue
tracker for the project, even if they are user experience type things
rather than strictly bugs.  We need the feedback.

> This is not meant to detract from them, its more a question, is a
> revenue based model the only option to ensure high enough quality to
> attract users and grow? 

I agree that it's a problem.  I've pointed out before that user
expectations for these types of apps are set by things like WhatsApp,
which is an entire company focused *just* on a single chat app, with an
engineering team that is larger than the number of developers in the
whole "privacy enhancing technology" community put together.

I think there are at least a couple of trends working in our favor though:

1) Mobile apps are a huge opportunity for us.  It's difficult to do much
in the security/privacy area strictly within the browser, and the
barrier to installing native desktop apps is high enough that you need
something like the network effect of skype to make it happen.  The
barrier to having users install mobile apps is much lower, and what we
can do within that framework is much greater.

2) Infrastructure continues to get easier to deploy, manage, and scale.
 As depressing as it is that there are companies developing insecure
communication tools with engineering teams larger than our entire
community, there are also examples of very small teams that have done
some really highly scalable stuff.  The engineering team at Instagram,
for instance, was quite small.  They were able to leverage AWS to scale
up without many problems, while focusing most of their effort on user
experience and core features.  Right now RedPhone has a global set of
POPs deployed that offer less than 100ms RTT to a relay from almost
anywhere in the world, and we don't have a dedicated infrastructure
team.  That would have been really hard to do in the past.

- moxie

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype redux

2012-12-23 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

I think Moxie hit the nail on the head especially with the two trends he
pointed out. A team of three developers can leverage global low-latency
infrastructure if they know how, while WhatsApp's entire engineering team
is stuck implementing *unusually* bad crypto.


NK


On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Moxie Marlinspike
wrote:

>
>
> On 12/22/2012 04:49 AM, Brian Conley wrote:
> > That said, thus far, neither redphone nor those over listed rivals skype
> > or Google hangouts quality of transmission.
>
> Depends.  RedPhone's audio quality is (in general) substantially better
> on Android than Skype's has been.  Skype's desktop audio quality is
> probably better than RedPhone's, however.
>
> I see this more as a desktop vs. android thing rather than a skype vs.
> redphone thing.  Low-latency audio on Android is just hard, particularly
> over mobile data networks.  It is true, however, that Skype has a much
> larger engineering team than we do.
>
> I like to think that RedPhone is getting better all the time, but if
> this is something that you or anyone on this list is interested in, we'd
> obviously welcome help improving things in any way that you can
> contribute.  Please don't be shy about filing issues in the GitHub issue
> tracker for the project, even if they are user experience type things
> rather than strictly bugs.  We need the feedback.
>
> > This is not meant to detract from them, its more a question, is a
> > revenue based model the only option to ensure high enough quality to
> > attract users and grow?
>
> I agree that it's a problem.  I've pointed out before that user
> expectations for these types of apps are set by things like WhatsApp,
> which is an entire company focused *just* on a single chat app, with an
> engineering team that is larger than the number of developers in the
> whole "privacy enhancing technology" community put together.
>
> I think there are at least a couple of trends working in our favor though:
>
> 1) Mobile apps are a huge opportunity for us.  It's difficult to do much
> in the security/privacy area strictly within the browser, and the
> barrier to installing native desktop apps is high enough that you need
> something like the network effect of skype to make it happen.  The
> barrier to having users install mobile apps is much lower, and what we
> can do within that framework is much greater.
>
> 2) Infrastructure continues to get easier to deploy, manage, and scale.
>  As depressing as it is that there are companies developing insecure
> communication tools with engineering teams larger than our entire
> community, there are also examples of very small teams that have done
> some really highly scalable stuff.  The engineering team at Instagram,
> for instance, was quite small.  They were able to leverage AWS to scale
> up without many problems, while focusing most of their effort on user
> experience and core features.  Right now RedPhone has a global set of
> POPs deployed that offer less than 100ms RTT to a relay from almost
> anywhere in the world, and we don't have a dedicated infrastructure
> team.  That would have been really hard to do in the past.
>
> - moxie
>
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[liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-16 Thread Kate Krauss

Hi,

My activist group has organized a number of strategic sign-on letters over
the years--and used them successfully to change various policies. Rarely,
however, does such a letter alone do the trick--but it's good as part of a
multi-pronged strategy.

The key question is: What does Microsoft leadership care about? What does
Steve Ballmer care about? Not what he should care about--what does he
actually care about?  The way to find out is to research the top priorities
at Microsoft. Those will be your cards to play. For instance, they might
not care that much about human rights issues but might care a lot about
selling a particular product in China or rolling out Windows 8 in Europe.

You may find that their public image is really important to them--they seem
to be trying to be a little more cool.  Microsoft gets a lot out of Skype's
friendly brand and a lot of human rights credibility through its
association with the Gates Foundation. Perhaps talking about these things
would be useful.

Global health advocates, who are surveilled on their computers using
Microsoft software like Skype, are regularly rounded up and thrown into
prison. This is at cross purposes from the admirable goals of the Gates
Foundation. And Skype's friendly, accessible software can let this happen.

There are a lot of options. You have to research and determine--not
guess--what top people at Microsoft really care about for the company and
use that as a guide. It might be something small but pivotal to Microsoft
that activists can have great influence over (Windows 8 rolling out and
being seen as cool in Europe, to make up an example).

This should also guide how the issue is discussed to the press. If
Microsoft cares about X, try to link the Skype problem to X when you talk
to reporters and lay it at Microsoft's doorstep.

Perhaps a list of prominent human rights groups might be good signers.
Another list could be prominent infosec experts--this list is especially
powerful here. Because if info sec experts say Skype isn't safe--well, it
isn't safe for anybody. Another list could be potential, influential
customers for Windows 8 (or whatever business concern is a top priority for
Microsoft).

You can have a separate list of each type of signer, with a heading, at the
bottom of the letter. And then you can also open up the letter to everyone.
Have a labeled section for human rights groups signers, a section for info
sec expert signers (or whichever groups you decide on), and a section for
regular people who don't fall into those categories so that they can show
solidarity.

But you need to find the lever that will move the policy. That is not every
lever.

I would also address the letter specifically to Steve Ballmer and cc the
board of directors. This is about power, not whose job Skype specifically
is. Do not diffuse responsibility.  Make this specifically Steve Ballmer's
headache.

Big petitions are a bit different from this--they require thousands of
signatures, and can still fail. They are often just a way of building
lists, or syphoning off pressure on a particular issue (as with these White
House petitions, I fear). If they are gigantic and leveraged adeptly, they
can be effective. Some groups,like Avaaz, are really great at getting
results with them and are the experts in using this tactic.

Anyway, great leadership, Nadim!

In solidarity,

Kate Krauss
Executive Director,
AIDS Policy Project
www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
k...@aidspolicyproject.org
Twitter: @aidspol

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> NK
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese

2012-06-21 Thread Douglas Lucas

I am not a lawyer but legally they would be hers, I think, confidentiality
notices notwithstanding. But again, I am not a lawyer. Technologically,
shouldn't she save them to pass them to someone who can safely inspect
them? (Would make a good story on NPR if something were discovered!)
Finally, haste makes waste.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese

2012-06-21 Thread Douglas Lucas

And by save them I mean not saving them to a drive but as in not deleting
them.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese

2012-06-21 Thread frank

Indeed. I just asked her to send them to Morgan who volunteered to check them out.Frank SmythExecutive DirectorGlobal Journalist Securityfr...@journalistsecurity.netT.  + 1 202 244 0717C.  + 1 202 352 1736Twitter:  @JournoSecurityWebsite: www.journalistsecurity.netPGP Public Key (please see below) Please consider our Earth before printing this email.Confidentiality Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and any copies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.-BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin)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=W+Lv-END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese
From: Douglas Lucas <d...@douglaslucas.com>
Date: Thu, June 21, 2012 11:49 am
To: liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu
Cc: fr...@journalistsecurity.net

And by save them I mean not saving them to a drive but as in not deleting them. 

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Manager Chinese

2012-06-21 Thread Robert Guerra

Frank,


In light of the recent Skype Malware attacks being reported by EFF & The 
CitizenLab, well, i'd suggest your colleague proceed with caution. 

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Munk Centre for Global Affairs, University of Toronto
Phone: +1 416-893-0377  Cell: +1 202 905 2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rob...@citizenlab.org
Web: http://citizenlab.org

On 2012-06-21, at 11:20 AM,  
 wrote:

> I just got the message below from a colleauge at NPR who discovered emails 
> from "Skype Manager" in Chinese. I presume she should delete them. Anyone 
> have any thoughts? Thank you. FS
> 
> Subject: Skype messages in Chinese?
> 
> Hi, ITSupport--
> 
> I'm at home, trying to get over a bad cold, so I checked my emails today 
> using mail.npr.org and see that I'm getting emails today from "Skype Manager" 
> in Chinese today. Should I delete these messages without opening them?
> 
> Carol
> 
> Frank Smyth
> Executive Director
> Global Journalist Security
> fr...@journalistsecurity.net
> T.  + 1 202 244 0717
> C.  + 1 202 352 1736
> Twitter:  @JournoSecurity
> Website: www.journalistsecurity.net
> 
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-17 Thread Andre Rebentisch


Dear Kate,

Am 17.01.2013 08:48, schrieb Kate Krauss:


You may find that their public image is really important to them--they 
seem to be trying to be a little more cool.  Microsoft gets a lot out 
of Skype's friendly brand and a lot of human rights credibility 
through its association with the Gates Foundation. Perhaps talking 
about these things would be useful.


Definitely not. It is an organisation that does not care at all about 
its public image in the field of public policy. Quite exceptional, I may 
add.


Currently it is one of the US key companies that target the EU personal 
data protection reform.


Of course there are exceptions to the scheme, e.g. an ip enforcement 
case in Russia a few years ago to which the company applied very 
professional damage control.


Best,
André


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Re: [liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-17 Thread Maxim Kammerer

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Andre Rebentisch  wrote:
> Definitely not. It is an organisation that does not care at all about its
> public image in the field of public policy. Quite exceptional, I may add.

Could you please be more specific? For instance, from what I remember,
whenever someone sets up an interview with a Microsoft employee, that
person is briefed by a team of professional PR people whose purpose is
to dig any information they can find on the interviewer, and design a
complete interview behavior / answers strategy based on that. That
doesn't come across as a behavior of a company that does not care
about its public image in some area.

> Of course there are exceptions to the scheme, e.g. an ip enforcement case in
> Russia a few years ago to which the company applied very professional damage
> control.

Are you referring to the the time when police would accuse people and
companies of using pirated Microsoft software, and Microsoft would
then distance itself from the investigation and claim they don't have
direct demands against the accused? I think all companies do that,
it's a win-win for them. Even Adobe “withdrew its support for the
criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov” in 2001.

-- 
Maxim Kammerer
Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-17 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 2:48 AM, Kate Krauss  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My activist group has organized a number of strategic sign-on letters over
> the years--and used them successfully to change various policies. Rarely,
> however, does such a letter alone do the trick--but it's good as part of a
> multi-pronged strategy.
>
> The key question is: What does Microsoft leadership care about? What does
> Steve Ballmer care about? Not what he should care about--what does he
> actually care about?  The way to find out is to research the top priorities
> at Microsoft. Those will be your cards to play. For instance, they might
> not care that much about human rights issues but might care a lot about
> selling a particular product in China or rolling out Windows 8 in Europe.
>

They care about bad media coverage regarding Skype's human rights record,
I'd hope...


>
> You may find that their public image is really important to them--they
> seem to be trying to be a little more cool.  Microsoft gets a lot out of
> Skype's friendly brand and a lot of human rights credibility through its
> association with the Gates Foundation. Perhaps talking about these things
> would be useful.
>
> Global health advocates, who are surveilled on their computers using
> Microsoft software like Skype, are regularly rounded up and thrown into
> prison. This is at cross purposes from the admirable goals of the Gates
> Foundation. And Skype's friendly, accessible software can let this happen.
>
> There are a lot of options. You have to research and determine--not
> guess--what top people at Microsoft really care about for the company and
> use that as a guide. It might be something small but pivotal to Microsoft
> that activists can have great influence over (Windows 8 rolling out and
> being seen as cool in Europe, to make up an example).
>
> This should also guide how the issue is discussed to the press. If
> Microsoft cares about X, try to link the Skype problem to X when you talk
> to reporters and lay it at Microsoft's doorstep.
>
> Perhaps a list of prominent human rights groups might be good signers.
> Another list could be prominent infosec experts--this list is especially
> powerful here. Because if info sec experts say Skype isn't safe--well, it
> isn't safe for anybody. Another list could be potential, influential
> customers for Windows 8 (or whatever business concern is a top priority for
> Microsoft).
>
> You can have a separate list of each type of signer, with a heading, at
> the bottom of the letter. And then you can also open up the letter to
> everyone. Have a labeled section for human rights groups signers, a section
> for info sec expert signers (or whichever groups you decide on), and a
> section for regular people who don't fall into those categories so that
> they can show solidarity.
>
> But you need to find the lever that will move the policy. That is not
> every lever.
>
> I would also address the letter specifically to Steve Ballmer and cc the
> board of directors. This is about power, not whose job Skype specifically
> is. Do not diffuse responsibility.  Make this specifically Steve Ballmer's
> headache.
>

Hmm. What does the rest of libtech think about addressing the letter to
Ballmer? I'm not sure how to think about this quite frankly.


>
> Big petitions are a bit different from this--they require thousands of
> signatures, and can still fail. They are often just a way of building
> lists, or syphoning off pressure on a particular issue (as with these White
> House petitions, I fear). If they are gigantic and leveraged adeptly, they
> can be effective. Some groups,like Avaaz, are really great at getting
> results with them and are the experts in using this tactic.
>

I think we can achieve a similar effort by getting signatures from
laudable/influential/awesome organizations/individuals en-masse and
appealing to the press.


>
> Anyway, great leadership, Nadim!
>

Thank you! Glad I seem to be doing something useful.


>
> In solidarity,
>
> Kate Krauss
> Executive Director,
> AIDS Policy Project
> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
> k...@aidspolicyproject.org
> Twitter: @aidspol
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:
>
>> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>>
>> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
>> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>>
>> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>>
>> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> NK
>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-17 Thread André Rebentisch

Am 17.01.2013 15:31, schrieb Maxim Kammerer:
> Could you please be more specific? 
Hiring the worst "tobaccos", disrespectful communication about
competition authorities, mass-taking over standard committees by ISV,
unreasonable communication, undue interference in non-domestic nations,
bullying tactics.

Just take DCI as an example.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=DCI_Group
It became wider known to a general audience when the McCain campaign was
alluded to their lobbying for Burma.

--- A


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Re: [liberationtech] Skype letter strategy

2013-01-17 Thread Ali-Reza Anghaie

There is no harm in taking Kate's advice to heart - they also do care, you
may perceive a complete lack of care through their
legal wrangling and maneuverings and I wouldn't suggest anyone there is a
"warm heart" about these issues - but just like Security issues and Linux
before, they care because the sysadmins and cloud architects of tomorrow
care - and Microsoft needs them (just like a period before when concerns
about Office licensing waiving).

Targeting the Board, major journalists, major Fortune 100 companies that
use the services - it's all sound and worthwhile and costs nothing. Worst
case, nothing changes - everything from there is an improvement. -Ali

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:46 AM, André Rebentisch wrote:

> Am 17.01.2013 15:31, schrieb Maxim Kammerer:
> > Could you please be more specific?
> Hiring the worst "tobaccos", disrespectful communication about
> competition authorities, mass-taking over standard committees by ISV,
> unreasonable communication, undue interference in non-domestic nations,
> bullying tactics.
>
> Just take DCI as an example.
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=DCI_Group
> It became wider known to a general audience when the McCain campaign was
> alluded to their lobbying for Burma.
>
> --- A
>
>
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[liberationtech] Skype Open letter translation

2013-01-24 Thread Percy Alpha

Hi.
I'm a member of greatfire team and I'm willing to translate the open letter
to Chinese because the Tom-skype is really prevailing in China and thus
makes the situation very dangerous. Then the admin could probably put it
into a subdomain or sub-directory.
Can someone tell me whom should I send my translation to?

Percy Alpha
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[liberationtech] Skype interception - Project Chess

2013-06-20 Thread Jacob Appelbaum

Hi,

I encourage all Skype users and security people to read this article
about Silicon Valley and the spying world:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/technology/silicon-valley-and-spy-agency-bound-by-strengthening-web.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This bit about Skype is fantastic:

"Skype, the Internet-based calling service, began its own secret
program, Project Chess, to explore the legal and technical issues in
making Skype calls readily available to intelligence agencies and law
enforcement officials, according to people briefed on the program who
asked not to be named to avoid trouble with the intelligence agencies.

"Project Chess, which has never been previously disclosed, was small,
limited to fewer than a dozen people inside Skype, and was developed as
the company had sometimes contentious talks with the government over
legal issues, said one of the people briefed on the project. The project
began about five years ago, before most of the company was sold by its
parent, eBay, to outside investors in 2009. Microsoft acquired Skype in
an $8.5 billion deal that was completed in October 2011.

"A Skype executive denied last year in a blog post that recent changes
in the way Skype operated were made at the behest of Microsoft to make
snooping easier for law enforcement. It appears, however, that Skype
figured out how to cooperate with the intelligence community before
Microsoft took over the company, according to documents leaked by Edward
J. Snowden, a former contractor for the N.S.A. One of the documents
about the Prism program made public by Mr. Snowden says Skype joined
Prism on Feb. 6, 2011.

"Microsoft executives are no longer willing to affirm statements, made
by Skype several years ago, that Skype calls could not be wiretapped.
Frank X. Shaw, a Microsoft spokesman, declined to comment.

I suspect that people will say "oh, activists don't need to worry about
the FBI or the NSA" - just remember - other intel agencies have data
sharing programs with the NSA. So a Dutch activist or a Moroccan
journalist are likely both just as screwed as an American activist using
Skype.

To the Skype promoters, apologists and deniers - I encourage you to
start using, and improving Jitsi - it needs a lot of love but it at
least has a chance of being secure, whereas Skype is beyond repair.

All the best,
Jacob
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[liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-23 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
9:00AM Eastern Time.*

Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*

Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open letter translation

2013-01-24 Thread x z

Hi Percy!

I actually did a Chinese translation and put it here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kqo47jbMIZIcqjA9JuWGgSVzV_M_GQYGIa9Jewwsm68/edit

(I posted the text on my Google+ page http://goo.gl/IZLwQ and Sina Weibo.)

We can definitely collaborate on improving the translation!

Best,

2013/1/24 Percy Alpha 

> Hi.
> I'm a member of greatfire team and I'm willing to translate the open
> letter to Chinese because the Tom-skype is really prevailing in China and
> thus makes the situation very dangerous. Then the admin could probably put
> it into a subdomain or sub-directory.
> Can someone tell me whom should I send my translation to?
>
> Percy Alpha
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype interception - Project Chess

2013-06-21 Thread Nathan of Guardian

On 06/20/2013 10:08 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> To the Skype promoters, apologists and deniers - I encourage you to
> start using, and improving Jitsi - it needs a lot of love but it at
> least has a chance of being secure, whereas Skype is beyond repair.

I also want to add to this, that in order to use Jitsi, you need a
trustworthy, privacy-oriented SIP service provider [0], to go with it.
This means someone that doesn't keep logs, doesn't require real name
registration, defaults to secure, and that also offers features to help
defend against traffic analysis and mass metadata gathering [1].

This is exactly what we have been working on at Guardian Project with
our Open Secure Telephony Network [2] project and our public
beta/testbed service at OStel.co. The base service platform we are using
is Kamailio [3], which is a project that should be as equally supported
as Jitsi.

Ultimately, our goal is not to replace one single service with another
single service, but rather to enable every user, organization, NGO,
collective, cooperative, etc to run their own service, or at least have
a variety of hosted service operators that run at a known quality and
standard for privacy-oriented voice and video communications.

+n

[0] OSTel privacy policy https://ostel.co/privacy

[1] more technical discussion here about our approach compared to a
typical voice operator:
https://guardianproject.info/2013/06/12/carrier-grade-verizon-and-the-nsa/

[2] OSTN/OStel source https://github.com/guardianproject/OSTel

[3] Kamailio - Open Source SIP Server - http://www.kamailio.org/
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype interception - Project Chess

2013-06-21 Thread Richard Brooks

Nathan,

You've probably explained this before, but what is the difference
between OSTN and RedPhone?

Thanks.

-Richard

On 06/21/2013 10:30 AM, Nathan of Guardian wrote:
> On 06/20/2013 10:08 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
>> To the Skype promoters, apologists and deniers - I encourage you to
>> start using, and improving Jitsi - it needs a lot of love but it at
>> least has a chance of being secure, whereas Skype is beyond repair.
> 
> I also want to add to this, that in order to use Jitsi, you need a
> trustworthy, privacy-oriented SIP service provider [0], to go with it.
> This means someone that doesn't keep logs, doesn't require real name
> registration, defaults to secure, and that also offers features to help
> defend against traffic analysis and mass metadata gathering [1].
> 
> This is exactly what we have been working on at Guardian Project with
> our Open Secure Telephony Network [2] project and our public
> beta/testbed service at OStel.co. The base service platform we are using
> is Kamailio [3], which is a project that should be as equally supported
> as Jitsi.
> 
> Ultimately, our goal is not to replace one single service with another
> single service, but rather to enable every user, organization, NGO,
> collective, cooperative, etc to run their own service, or at least have
> a variety of hosted service operators that run at a known quality and
> standard for privacy-oriented voice and video communications.
> 
> +n
> 
> [0] OSTel privacy policy https://ostel.co/privacy
> 
> [1] more technical discussion here about our approach compared to a
> typical voice operator:
> https://guardianproject.info/2013/06/12/carrier-grade-verizon-and-the-nsa/
> 
> [2] OSTN/OStel source https://github.com/guardianproject/OSTel
> 
> [3] Kamailio - Open Source SIP Server - http://www.kamailio.org/
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===
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Associate Professor
Holcombe Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Clemson University

313-C Riggs Hall
PO Box 340915
Clemson, SC 29634-0915
USA

Tel.   864-656-0920
Fax.   864-656-5910
email: r...@acm.org
web:   http://www.clemson.edu/~rrb

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype interception - Project Chess

2013-06-21 Thread Griffin Boyce

+1 Nathan. Jitsi is great, but does need more love and attention from
developers to be a real contender.

Skype got its foot hold on various communities because it's useful, usable,
and has (had?) an under-educated user base.  The ongoing debate about their
terrible security practices will likely lead to a small minority of their
users jumping ship.

What happens when one company totally dominates its sector in this way? How
can we effectively fight against them?  We need to come up with better
strategies for convincing people to opt out of ubiquitous surveillance.  At
this point, it's still really easy for people to justify bad security
decisions by drawing a distinction between themselves and "paranoid"
security types. For people who are already convinced, the learning curve is
pretty steep, this is true, but there is a legion of people out there who
still think they aren't affected at all by this sort of revelation. We need
to change that.

¿Griffin?

--
Typing on a phone, please excuse fatfingers and grammatical errors.

On Jun 21, 2013 10:31 AM, "Nathan of Guardian" 
wrote:
>
> On 06/20/2013 10:08 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> > To the Skype promoters, apologists and deniers - I encourage you to
> > start using, and improving Jitsi - it needs a lot of love but it at
> > least has a chance of being secure, whereas Skype is beyond repair.
>
> I also want to add to this, that in order to use Jitsi, you need a
> trustworthy, privacy-oriented SIP service provider [0], to go with it.
> This means someone that doesn't keep logs, doesn't require real name
> registration, defaults to secure, and that also offers features to help
> defend against traffic analysis and mass metadata gathering [1].
>
> This is exactly what we have been working on at Guardian Project with
> our Open Secure Telephony Network [2] project and our public
> beta/testbed service at OStel.co. The base service platform we are using
> is Kamailio [3], which is a project that should be as equally supported
> as Jitsi.
>
> Ultimately, our goal is not to replace one single service with another
> single service, but rather to enable every user, organization, NGO,
> collective, cooperative, etc to run their own service, or at least have
> a variety of hosted service operators that run at a known quality and
> standard for privacy-oriented voice and video communications.
>
> +n
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[liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,

I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:

http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/

The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.

Thank you,
NK
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

It's out, everyone!


NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>
> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>
> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>
> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
> the site at launch.)
>
> For the Internet!
>
> NK
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Martin Johnson

Nadim, I cannot open https://skypeopenletter.com. I tried from several
connections. I can open http://skypeopenletter.com (not https).

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> It's out, everyone!
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:
>
>> The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>
>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>
>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
>> the site at launch.)
>>
>> For the Internet!
>>
>> NK
>>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Fran Parker

8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out. 
However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/ loads fine.


https not working I guess.



Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

It's out, everyone!


NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:


The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
9:00AM Eastern Time.*

Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*

Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK



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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:

> 8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
> However, 
> http://www.skypeopenletter.**com/loads fine.
>
> https not working I guess.
>
>
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>> It's out, everyone!
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:
>>
>>  The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
>>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
>>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>>
>>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>>
>>>
>>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
>>> the site at launch.)
>>>
>>> For the Internet!
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech
>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Alan Stewart


NK

THANKS FOR ALL THE WORK AND COORDINATION...

BUSY SHARING AND STUFF

Alan

On 1/24/2013 5:09 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

It's out, everyone!


NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi > wrote:


The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
at 9:00AM Eastern Time.*

Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
from EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*

Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be
embedded onto the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK




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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

YES YOU ARE WELCOME


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Alan Stewart  wrote:

>  NK
>
> THANKS FOR ALL THE WORK AND COORDINATION...
>
> BUSY SHARING AND STUFF
>
> Alan
>
>  On 1/24/2013 5:09 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
> It's out, everyone!
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:
>
>> The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>
>>  Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>
>>  *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>
>>  Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>> onto the site at launch.)
>>
>>  For the Internet!
>>
>> NK
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Fran Parker


No worries, Nadim!

What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!

Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:


8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
However, 
http://www.skypeopenletter.**com/loads fine.

https not working I guess.



Nadim Kobeissi wrote:


It's out, everyone!


NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi   wrote:

  The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at

9:00AM Eastern Time.*


Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*


Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded onto
the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK



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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Martin Johnson

Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
Microsoft to respond.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:

> No worries, Nadim!
>
> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>> My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>
>>  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
>>> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/>> skypeopenletter.com/ >loads fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> https not working I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
>>>  It's out, everyone!


 NK


 On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
 wrote:

   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at

> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>
>
> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin from
> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>
> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>
>
> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
> onto
> the site at launch.)
>
> For the Internet!
>
> NK
>
>
>  --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
 
 >

  --
>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech
>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread SiNA Rabbani

Is there a hashtag for this letter? Maybe just #skype to get the attention
of Skype users?
On Jan 24, 2013 5:32 PM, "Martin Johnson"  wrote:

> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
> Microsoft to respond.
>
> Martin Johnson
> Founder
> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>
>> No worries, Nadim!
>>
>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>
>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>
>>> My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.
>>>
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>>
>>>  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
 However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/>loads fine.


 https not working I guess.



 Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

  It's out, everyone!
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
> wrote:
>
>   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
>
>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>> from
>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>
>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>
>>
>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>> onto
>> the site at launch.)
>>
>> For the Internet!
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>>  --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> >
>
>  --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
 
 >


>>> --
>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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>>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

The hashtag is #skypetransparency


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:20 PM, SiNA Rabbani  wrote:

> Is there a hashtag for this letter? Maybe just #skype to get the attention
> of Skype users?
> On Jan 24, 2013 5:32 PM, "Martin Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
>> Microsoft to respond.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>
>>> No worries, Nadim!
>>>
>>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
 My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


 NK


 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
  wrote:

  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/ skypeopenletter.com/ >loads fine.
>
>
> https not working I guess.
>
>
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>  It's out, everyone!
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
>> wrote:
>>
>>   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
>> at
>>
>>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>>> from
>>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>>
>>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>>
>>>
>>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>>> onto
>>> the site at launch.)
>>>
>>> For the Internet!
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>> 
>> >
>>
>>  --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> >
>
>
 --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech

>>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Kate Krauss

First press hit:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/


--
Kate Krauss
Executive Director
AIDS Policy Project
www.AIDSPolicyProject.org

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson wrote:

> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
> Microsoft to respond.
>
> Martin Johnson
> Founder
> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>
>> No worries, Nadim!
>>
>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>
>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>
>>> My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.
>>>
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>>
>>>  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
 However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/>loads fine.


 https not working I guess.



 Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

  It's out, everyone!
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
> wrote:
>
>   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013 at
>
>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>> from
>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>
>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>
>>
>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>> onto
>> the site at launch.)
>>
>> For the Internet!
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>>  --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> >
>
>  --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
 
 >


>>> --
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>>>
>> --
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>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Martin Johnson

Actually
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-callswas
faster.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate Krauss  wrote:

> First press hit:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/
>
>
> --
> Kate Krauss
> Executive Director
> AIDS Policy Project
> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
>> Microsoft to respond.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>
>>> No worries, Nadim!
>>>
>>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
 My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


 NK


 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
  wrote:

  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/ skypeopenletter.com/ >loads fine.
>
>
> https not working I guess.
>
>
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>  It's out, everyone!
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
>> wrote:
>>
>>   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
>> at
>>
>>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>>> from
>>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>>
>>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>>
>>>
>>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>>> onto
>>> the site at launch.)
>>>
>>> For the Internet!
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>> 
>> >
>>
>>  --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> >
>
>
 --
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 https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech

>>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Ryan Gallagher

It's had much wider coverage that just the Register & the Verge (see a
selection below). I expect there will be a few more tomorrow, too, and
there will also be follow-ups when (if?) Microsoft substantively responds.

CNET:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57565610-83/surveillance-a-la-skype-eff-others-seek-answers/

Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/01/24/letter-from-forty-four-digital-rights-groups-demands-skype-detail-its-surveillance-practices/

NBC:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/skype-prodded-privacy-advocates-over-transparency-vulnerabilities-1C8103618

Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/skype-surveillance-microsoft_n_2545646.html

Slate:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/01/24/skype_urged_to_come_clean_on_eavesdropping_capabilities_and_policies_in.html

ReadWriteWeb:
http://readwrite.com/2013/01/24/microsoft-needs-to-come-clean-on-skype-privacy

ZDNet:
http://www.zdnet.com/eff-others-to-microsoft-whos-requesting-our-skype-data-710268/

PCAdvisor:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/photo-video/3422347/groups-raise-questions-about-privacy-on-skype/



On 25 January 2013 02:32, Kate Krauss  wrote:

> First press hit:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/
>
>
> --
> Kate Krauss
> Executive Director
> AIDS Policy Project
> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
>> Microsoft to respond.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>
>>> No worries, Nadim!
>>>
>>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
 My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


 NK


 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
  wrote:

  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.
> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/ skypeopenletter.com/ >loads fine.
>
>
> https not working I guess.
>
>
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>  It's out, everyone!
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
>> wrote:
>>
>>   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
>> at
>>
>>> 9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>>> from
>>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>>
>>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>>
>>>
>>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
>>> onto
>>> the site at launch.)
>>>
>>> For the Internet!
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>> 
>> >
>>
>>  --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> >
>
>
 --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech

>>> --
>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread Fran Parker

I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The 
Verge and got this link:


http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-calls

Martin Johnson wrote:

Actually
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-callswas
faster.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate Krauss  wrote:


First press hit:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/


--
Kate Krauss
Executive Director
AIDS Policy Project
www.AIDSPolicyProject.org


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnsonwrote:


Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
Microsoft to respond.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker  wrote:


No worries, Nadim!

What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!

Nadim Kobeissi wrote:


My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
  wrote:

  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times out.

However, http://www.skypeopenletter.com/>loads fine.


https not working I guess.



Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

  It's out, everyone!


NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
wrote:

   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
at


9:00AM Eastern Time.*


Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
from
EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*


Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
onto
the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK


  --

Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

  --

Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech



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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-24 Thread 魏有豪

Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype


Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)
+65 9177 3635

gpg: AB3DB8AC


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker  wrote:

> I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The
> Verge and got this link:
>
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
> asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-calls
>
> Martin Johnson wrote:
>
>> Actually
>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
>> asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-callswas
>>
>> faster.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate Krauss  wrote:
>>
>>  First press hit:
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2013/01/25/activists_demand_**
>>> skype_transparency/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kate Krauss
>>> Executive Director
>>> AIDS Policy Project
>>> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson>> org >wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
 Microsoft to respond.

 Martin Johnson
 Founder
 https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
 https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
 https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.


 On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker
  wrote:

  No worries, Nadim!
>
> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>  My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
>>   wrote:
>>
>>   8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times
>> out.
>>
>>> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.**com/>> skypeopenletter.com/
>>> >>**loads fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https not working I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
>>>   It's out, everyone!
>>>

 NK


 On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
 wrote:

The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd
 2013
 at

  9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>
>
> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
> from
> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>
> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>
>
> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be
> embedded
> onto
> the site at launch.)
>
> For the Internet!
>
> NK
>
>
>   --
>
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**
 liberationtech
 
 >
 
 
 >
   --

>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**
>>> liberationtech
>>> >> liberationtech
>>> >
>>> >> liberationtech
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>>  --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-25 Thread Russell Brandom

Also on NPR's Marketplace Tech Report:
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/tweeting-videos-through-vine-should-skype-be-more-google
(Starting
at 1:40)


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)  wrote:

> Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)
>
>
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype
>
>
> Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)
> +65 9177 3635
>
> gpg: AB3DB8AC
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>
>> I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The
>> Verge and got this link:
>>
>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
>> asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-calls
>>
>> Martin Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Actually
>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
>>> asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-callswas
>>>
>>> faster.
>>>
>>> Martin Johnson
>>> Founder
>>> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>>> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>>> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate Krauss
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  First press hit:
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2013/01/25/activists_demand_**
 skype_transparency/


 --
 Kate Krauss
 Executive Director
 AIDS Policy Project
 www.AIDSPolicyProject.org


 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson>>> org >wrote:

  Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
> Microsoft to respond.
>
> Martin Johnson
> Founder
> https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
> https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
> https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker
>  wrote:
>
>  No worries, Nadim!
>>
>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>
>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>
>>  My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.
>>>
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
>>>   wrote:
>>>
>>>   8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times
>>> out.
>>>
 However, http://www.skypeopenletter.**com/
 >>**loads fine.



 https not working I guess.



 Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

   It's out, everyone!

>
> NK
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
> wrote:
>
>The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd
> 2013
> at
>
>  9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
>> from
>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>
>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>
>>
>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be
>> embedded
>> onto
>> the site at launch.)
>>
>> For the Internet!
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>>   --
>>
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**
> liberationtech
>  liberationtech
> >
>  liberationtech
> 
> >
>   --
>
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**
 liberationtech
 
 >

Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-25 Thread Paul Bernal (LAW)

It's on the BBC website too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21194801



Dr Paul Bernal
Lecturer
UEA Law School
University of East Anglia
Norwich Research Park
Norwich NR4 7TJ

email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk
Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
Twitter: @paulbernalUK

On 25 Jan 2013, at 14:38, Russell Brandom 
mailto:russell.bran...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

Also on NPR's Marketplace Tech Report: 
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/tweeting-videos-through-vine-should-skype-be-more-google
 (Starting at 1:40)


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Kelvin Quee (魏有豪) 
mailto:kel...@quee.org>> wrote:
Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype


Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)
+65 9177 3635

gpg: AB3DB8AC


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker 
mailto:lilba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The Verge 
and got this link:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-calls

Martin Johnson wrote:
Actually
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-callswas

faster.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In 
China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina 
Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website 
In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate 
Kraussmailto:ka...@critpath.org>>  wrote:

First press hit:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/


--
Kate Krauss
Executive Director
AIDS Policy Project
www.AIDSPolicyProject.org


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin 
Johnsonmailto:greatf...@greatfire.org>>wrote:

Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
Microsoft to respond.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In 
China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina 
Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website 
In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran 
Parkermailto:lilba...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

No worries, Nadim!

What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!

Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


NK


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran 
Parkermailto:lilba...@gmail.com>>
  wrote:

  8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com 
will not load. Times out.
However, 
http://www.skypeopenletter.com/**
skypeopenletter.com/>loads
 fine.



https not working I guess.



Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

  It's out, everyone!

NK


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim 
Kobeissimailto:na...@nadim.cc>>
wrote:

   The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd 2013
at

9:00AM Eastern Time.*


Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva Galperin
from
EFF. The petition will be available at:

*https://skypeopenletter.com*


Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be embedded
onto
the site at launch.)

For the Internet!

NK


  --
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

  --
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech


--
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech

--
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtech


--
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-25 Thread Nadim Kobeissi

What a great success, everyone! Congratulations! :-)

More media coverage ( 31 news sources so far, discounting Reddit and Hacker
News!)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57565690/activists-to-microsoft-who-is-requesting-our-skype-data/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/9827215/Microsoft-urged-to-open-up-over-privacy-of-Skype-data.html


NK


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Paul Bernal (LAW)
wrote:

>  It's on the BBC website too:
>
>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21194801
>
>
>
>   Dr Paul Bernal
> Lecturer
> UEA Law School
> University of East Anglia
> Norwich Research Park
> Norwich NR4 7TJ
>
> email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk
> Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
> Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
>  Twitter: @paulbernalUK
>
>  On 25 Jan 2013, at 14:38, Russell Brandom 
>  wrote:
>
>  Also on NPR's Marketplace Tech Report:
> http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/tweeting-videos-through-vine-should-skype-be-more-google
>  (Starting
> at 1:40)
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Kelvin Quee (魏有豪) wrote:
>
>> Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)
>>
>>
>> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype
>>
>>
>> Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)
>> +65 9177 3635
>>
>>  gpg: AB3DB8AC
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker  wrote:
>>
>>> I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The
>>> Verge and got this link:
>>>
>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
>>> asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-calls
>>>
>>> Martin Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Actually
 http://www.theverge.com/2013/**1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-**
 asks-whos-listening-in-on-**skype-callswas

 faster.

 Martin Johnson
 Founder
 https://GreatFire.org  - Monitoring Online
 Censorship In China.
 https://FreeWeibo.com  - Uncensored, Anonymous
 Sina Weibo Search.
 https://Unblock.cn.com  - We Can Unblock Your
 Website In China.


 On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate Krauss
  wrote:

   First press hit:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2013/01/25/activists_demand_**
> skype_transparency/
>
>
> --
> Kate Krauss
> Executive Director
> AIDS Policy Project
> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org 
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin Johnson org >wrote:
>
>  Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and
>> force
>> Microsoft to respond.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org  - Monitoring Online
>> Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com  - Uncensored,
>> Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com  - We Can Unblock
>> Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Fran Parker
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  No worries, Nadim!
>>>
>>> What a great job as noted earlier! Thanks!
>>>
>>> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>>>
>>>  My mistake! We do not have an HTTPS version.


 NK


 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fran Parker
   wrote:

   8:36 AM EST and https://skypeopenletter.com will not load. Times
 out.

> However, http://www.skypeopenletter.**com/ skypeopenletter.com/
> >>**loads fine.
>
>
>
> https not working I guess.
>
>
>
> Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
>   It's out, everyone!
>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi
>> wrote:
>>
>>The Open Letter to Skype is launching *Thursday, January 23rd
>> 2013
>> at
>>
>>  9:00AM Eastern Time.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped, with special thanks to Eva
>>> Galperin
>>> from
>>> EFF. The petition will be available at:
>>>
>>> *https://skypeopenletter.com*
>>>
>>>
>>> Share widely! (Facebook and Twitter "Share" buttons will be
>>> embedded
>>> onto
>>> the site at launch.)
>>>
>>> For the Internet!
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or chang

Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-01-26 Thread Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)

Cool, this kind of media action cooperation worked very well.

In Italy (and in Italian) we made a press-release of Hermes Center (
http://logioshermes.org ) and broadcasted it to +50 journalists working
on internet-stuff and to all the major organization active on internet
privacy, digital rights and consumer protection.

Now we got coverage on the following media sites, and it started a
debate on the topic in several groups and areas:
*
http://www.corriere.it/tecnologia/social/13_gennaio_25/skype-privacy-lettera_705a794e-6704-11e2-95de-416ea2b54ab7.shtml
* http://affaritaliani.libero.it/mediatech/skype-microsoft250113.html
*
http://www.corrierecomunicazioni.it/it-world/19251_skype-attivisti-in-campo-chi-accede-ai-nostri-dati.htm
*
http://www.federicoguerrini.com/privacy/lettera-aperta-a-skype-quanto-sono-private-le-conversazioni/
*
http://www.bitmat.it/articolo/095720/48/20/Skype_spia_le_nostre_conversazioni.html
*
http://www.ilsoftware.it/articoli.asp?tag=Privacy-e-Skype-la-lettera-aperta-indirizzata-a-Microsoft_9567
*
http://sportelloconsumatori.org/blog/2013/01/25/lettera-aperta-a-skype-quanto-sono-sicure-le-nostre-conversazioni/
*
http://geeklino.com/2013/01/25/lettera-aperta-a-skype-spieghi-se-sono-sicure-le-conversazioni-degli-utenti/

Let's do it again :-)

Fabio

On 1/25/13 4:42 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> What a great success, everyone! Congratulations! :-)
>
> More media coverage ( 31 news sources so far, discounting Reddit and
> Hacker News!)
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57565690/activists-to-microsoft-who-is-requesting-our-skype-data/
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/9827215/Microsoft-urged-to-open-up-over-privacy-of-Skype-data.html
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Paul Bernal (LAW)
> mailto:paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> It's on the BBC website too:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21194801
>
>
>
> Dr Paul Bernal
> Lecturer
> UEA Law School
> University of East Anglia
> Norwich Research Park
> Norwich NR4 7TJ
>
> email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk 
> Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
> Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
> Twitter: @paulbernalUK
>
> On 25 Jan 2013, at 14:38, Russell Brandom
> mailto:russell.bran...@gmail.com>>
>  wrote:
>
>> Also on NPR's Marketplace Tech
>> Report: 
>> http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/tweeting-videos-through-vine-should-skype-be-more-google
>>  (Starting
>> at 1:40)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Kelvin Quee (???)
>> mailto:kel...@quee.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)
>>
>> 
>> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype
>>
>>
>> Kelvin Quee (???)
>> +65 9177 3635 
>>
>> gpg: AB3DB8AC
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker
>> mailto:lilba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched
>> for Skype on The Verge and got this link:
>>
>> 
>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-calls
>>
>> Martin Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Actually
>> 
>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-callswas
>>
>>
>> faster.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org  -
>> Monitoring Online Censorship In China.
>> https://FreeWeibo.com  -
>> Uncensored, Anonymous Sina Weibo Search.
>> https://Unblock.cn.com  - We
>> Can Unblock Your Website In China.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate
>> Krauss> >  wrote:
>>
>> First press hit:
>> 
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kate Krauss
>> Executive Director
>> AIDS Policy Project
>> www.AIDSPolicyProject.org
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin
>> Johnson> >wrote:
>>
>> Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's
>> spread this widely and force
>> Microsoft to respond.
>>
>> Martin Johnson
>> Founder
>> https://GreatFire.org
>>  - Monitoring On

Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: Launch Date!

2013-02-13 Thread Paul Bernal (LAW)

Dear All

Just to let you know, I've just been interviewed by a man from the NYT/IHT 
(European office) about the Skype Open Letter - he'll be writing a piece in a 
week to ten days. I hope I said the right kind of thing…

Paul


Dr Paul Bernal
Lecturer
UEA Law School
University of East Anglia
Norwich Research Park
Norwich NR4 7TJ

email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk
Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
Twitter: @paulbernalUK

On 26 Jan 2013, at 09:16, francesca bosco 
mailto:bosco_france...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Well done Fabio and we, as Tech and Law Center, are very happy to help in 
supporting these initiatives.
Francesca

Il giorno 26/gen/2013, alle ore 09:41, "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)" 
mailto:li...@infosecurity.ch>> ha scritto:

Cool, this kind of media action cooperation worked very well.

In Italy (and in Italian) we made a press-release of Hermes Center ( 
http://logioshermes.org ) and broadcasted it to +50 
journalists working on internet-stuff and to all the major organization active 
on internet privacy, digital rights and consumer protection.

Now we got coverage on the following media sites, and it started a debate on 
the topic in several groups and areas:
* 
http://www.corriere.it/tecnologia/social/13_gennaio_25/skype-privacy-lettera_705a794e-6704-11e2-95de-416ea2b54ab7.shtml
* http://affaritaliani.libero.it/mediatech/skype-microsoft250113.html
* 
http://www.corrierecomunicazioni.it/it-world/19251_skype-attivisti-in-campo-chi-accede-ai-nostri-dati.htm
* 
http://www.federicoguerrini.com/privacy/lettera-aperta-a-skype-quanto-sono-private-le-conversazioni/
* 
http://www.bitmat.it/articolo/095720/48/20/Skype_spia_le_nostre_conversazioni.html
* 
http://www.ilsoftware.it/articoli.asp?tag=Privacy-e-Skype-la-lettera-aperta-indirizzata-a-Microsoft_9567
* 
http://sportelloconsumatori.org/blog/2013/01/25/lettera-aperta-a-skype-quanto-sono-sicure-le-nostre-conversazioni/
* 
http://geeklino.com/2013/01/25/lettera-aperta-a-skype-spieghi-se-sono-sicure-le-conversazioni-degli-utenti/

Let's do it again :-)

Fabio

On 1/25/13 4:42 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
What a great success, everyone! Congratulations! :-)

More media coverage ( 31 news sources so far, discounting Reddit and Hacker 
News!)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57565690/activists-to-microsoft-who-is-requesting-our-skype-data/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/9827215/Microsoft-urged-to-open-up-over-privacy-of-Skype-data.html


NK


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Paul Bernal (LAW) 
mailto:paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk>> wrote:
It's on the BBC website too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21194801



Dr Paul Bernal
Lecturer
UEA Law School
University of East Anglia
Norwich Research Park
Norwich NR4 7TJ

email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk
Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
Twitter: @paulbernalUK

On 25 Jan 2013, at 14:38, Russell Brandom 
mailto:russell.bran...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

Also on NPR's Marketplace Tech Report: 
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/tweeting-videos-through-vine-should-skype-be-more-google
 (Starting at 1:40)


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Kelvin Quee (魏有豪) 
mailto:kel...@quee.org>> wrote:
Congratulations on making it to Slashdot! :)

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/231217/privacy-advocates-demand-transparency-from-skype


Kelvin Quee (魏有豪)
+65 9177 3635

gpg: AB3DB8AC


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Fran Parker 
mailto:lilba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I couldn't get there with the link provided so searched for Skype on The Verge 
and got this link:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-calls

Martin Johnson wrote:
Actually
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3895002/an-open-letter-asks-whos-listening-in-on-skype-callswas

faster.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In 
China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina 
Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website 
In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Kate 
Kraussmailto:ka...@critpath.org>>  wrote:

First press hit:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/activists_demand_skype_transparency/


--
Kate Krauss
Executive Director
AIDS Policy Project
www.AIDSPolicyProject.org


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Martin 
Johnsonmailto:greatf...@greatfire.org>>wrote:

Thanks a lot Nadim! Great work! Now let's spread this widely and force
Microsoft to respond.

Martin Johnson
Founder
https://GreatFire.org - Monitoring Online Censorship In 
China.
https://FreeWeibo.com - Uncensored, Anonymous Sina 
Weibo Search.
https://Unblock.cn.com - We Can Unblock Your Website 
In China.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at

Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Griffin Boyce

I would like to sign this.

~Griffin Boyce

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> NK
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread x z

This is very well written!!

One comment - given that the Tom-Skype operations mainly affect just
Chinese users, I feel it makes sense to call out China explicitly in that
sentence.

Best,

2013/1/16 Nadim Kobeissi 

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> NK
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Allen Gunn

Hey Nadim,

The letter looks great. Thanks for driving this.

Please add Aspiration (www.aspirationtech.org) to the signatories

peace,
gunner

On 01/16/2013 08:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> 
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> 
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> 
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> NK
> 
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 

-- 

Allen Gunn
Executive Director, Aspiration
+1.415.216.7252
www.aspirationtech.org

Aspiration: "Better Tools for a Better World"

Read our Manifesto: http://aspirationtech.org/publications/manifesto

Follow us:
Facebook: www.facebook.com/aspirationtech
Twitter:  www.twitter.com/aspirationtech

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Isaac Wilder

The Free Network Foundation will sign.

As far a copy edits:
"voice communications software, Skype continues to be the first choice
for many whose lives depend on strong communications privacy.
Regretfully, Skype continues to ignore repeated, reasonable requests to
clarify the basic principles of its privacy policies.[6]
"

The first clause (voice communications software) should either be taken
out, or capitalized and the trailing comma removed.

Well said, Nadim.

imw

On 01/16/2013 11:10 AM, x z wrote:
> This is very well written!!
>
> One comment - given that the Tom-Skype operations mainly affect just
> Chinese users, I feel it makes sense to call out China explicitly in
> that sentence.
>
> Best,
>
> 2013/1/16 Nadim Kobeissi mailto:na...@nadim.cc>>
>
> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to
> Skype and present your name or the name of your organization as
> signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> NK
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Do all signatories need to be affiliated/part of an organisation?


On 16 Jan 2013, at 16:58, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> 
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype and 
> present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> 
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> 
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> NK
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

- --
Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb

IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Do all signatories need to be affiliated/part of an organisation?
>

Nope!


>
>
> On 16 Jan 2013, at 16:58, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
> > Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> >
> > I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> >
> > http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> >
> > The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > NK
> > --
> > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
> - --
> Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb
>
> IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin)
> Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
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> =4FPl
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Ryan Gallagher

On 16 January 2013 17:22, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb  wrote:

>
> Do all signatories need to be affiliated/part of an organisation?


I think it should be opened up for individuals to sign, to broaden it as
much as possible. I wrote a few bits of the letter, would like to sign it
in a personal capacity, and am not affiliated to any organization. Unless
others think it is better/stronger to have it signed only by organizations?
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Ryan Gallagher wrote:

> On 16 January 2013 17:22, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote:
>
>>
>> Do all signatories need to be affiliated/part of an organisation?
>
>
> I think it should be opened up for individuals to sign, to broaden it as
> much as possible. I wrote a few bits of the letter, would like to sign it
> in a personal capacity, and am not affiliated to any organization. Unless
> others think it is better/stronger to have it signed only by organizations?
>

It's already open for individuals.


>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Sarah A. Downey

Nice job. I'll sign as an individual and on behalf of
Abine(we're an online privacy startup).

-Sarah


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> NK
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>



-- 
*Sarah A. Downey*
Privacy Analyst  |  Attorney
Abine , Inc :  Online privacy
starts here.
t:  @SarahADowney   |  p:  800.928.1987
Blogging on privacy at Abine.com/Blog
Like us? Spread the word! 
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Ryan Gallagher

On 16 January 2013 17:31, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

>
>
> It's already open for individuals.
>
>

Excellent, thanks Nadim.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Paul Bernal (LAW)

I'd like to sign too, if you'd like it!

Paul


Dr Paul Bernal
Lecturer
UEA Law School
University of East Anglia
Norwich Research Park
Norwich NR4 7TJ

email: paul.ber...@uea.ac.uk
Web: http://www.paulbernal.co.uk/
Blog: http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/
Twitter: @paulbernalUK

On 16 Jan 2013, at 16:58, Nadim Kobeissi mailto:na...@nadim.cc>>
 wrote:

Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,

I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype and 
present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:

http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/

The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.

Thank you,
NK
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Amin Sabeti

I'd like to sign it as well, if I am eligible :)

Amin
On 16 January 2013 17:58, Paul Bernal (LAW)  wrote:

> I'd like to sign too, if you'd like it!
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 16 Jan 2013, at 17:27, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb  
> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> Do all signatories need to be affiliated/part of an organisation?
> 
> Nope!
>  

Thanks.


- --
Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb

IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Nighat Dad

Digital Rights Foundation, Pakistan would like to sign the letter too.
www.digitalrightsfoundation.pk

Best,
Nighat Dad


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Amin Sabeti  wrote:

> I'd like to sign it as well, if I am eligible :)
>
> Amin
> On 16 January 2013 17:58, Paul Bernal (LAW)  wrote:
>
>> I'd like to sign too, if you'd like it!
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread John Sullivan

Nadim Kobeissi  writes:

> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>

Thank you for the opportunity to give feedback.

We would sign if it included a request that Skype be released as free
software.

This seems important for many users. Even if Skype published a
transparency report indicating abuse of user information, users are
unable to use modified versions of Skype to address those abuses and
instead would have to drop it entirely in favor of something else -- a
very high cost path for many, who may have to just submit to the abuse
instead. 

Of course a free client wouldn't necessarily be sufficient on its own
either, but we do think it's necessary.

Admittedly I don't know much (anything) about how existing transparency
reports are verified, but I worry that this would give people a false
sense of security. Does someone with sufficient access audit them? Other
than law enforcement agencies publishing info which would help verify
some subset of the commitments made in a transparency report.

-john

-- 
John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: 61A0963B | http://status.fsf.org/johns | http://fsf.org/blogs/RSS

Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at
.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Cindy Cohn

Please note that EFF has not signed off on this. 

Very busy with post Aaron S stuff; more later.

Cindy

On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:12 AM, John Sullivan  wrote:

> Nadim Kobeissi  writes:
> 
>> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
>> 
>> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
>> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
>> 
>> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
>> 
>> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
>> 
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to give feedback.
> 
> We would sign if it included a request that Skype be released as free
> software.
> 
> This seems important for many users. Even if Skype published a
> transparency report indicating abuse of user information, users are
> unable to use modified versions of Skype to address those abuses and
> instead would have to drop it entirely in favor of something else -- a
> very high cost path for many, who may have to just submit to the abuse
> instead. 
> 
> Of course a free client wouldn't necessarily be sufficient on its own
> either, but we do think it's necessary.
> 
> Admittedly I don't know much (anything) about how existing transparency
> reports are verified, but I worry that this would give people a false
> sense of security. Does someone with sufficient access audit them? Other
> than law enforcement agencies publishing info which would help verify
> some subset of the commitments made in a transparency report.
> 
> -john
> 
> -- 
> John Sullivan | Executive Director, Free Software Foundation
> GPG Key: 61A0963B | http://status.fsf.org/johns | http://fsf.org/blogs/RSS
> 
> Do you use free software? Donate to join the FSF and support freedom at
> .
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech


***
Cindy Cohn  ci...@eff.org
Legal Director   www.eff.org
Electronic Frontier Foundation
454 Shotwell Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
(415) 436-9333 x108
(415) 436-9993 (fax)

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall

(first post!)

While CDT can't sign[1], I wanted to ask a question. (Since we can't
sign on, I don't want you to feel like you have to answer!)

I was wondering: why the focus on Skype and MSFT?

If I were to answer my own question, I'd probably say the focus is
simply due to the wide usage base of Skype, its' relative usability and
the fact that it was at one time considered very e2e-secure.  However, I
wonder if this isn't more powerful as a more general open letter that
talks about the principles you note and what kinds of measures
(propreitary?) e2e communication technologies can take, using Skype as
an example.  Maybe another good answer is a letter has to have an
audience and making it more general might make it more of a
less-powerful statement than a directed letter with asks at the end.

best, Joe

[1] CDT rarely signs on to things.

On 1/16/13 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> 
> I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> 
> http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> 
> The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> NK
> 
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 

-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Senior Staff Technologist
Center for Democracy & Technology
1634 I ST NW STE 1100
Washington DC 20006-4011
(p) 202-407-8825
(f) 202-637-0968
j...@cdt.org
PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall  wrote:

> (first post!)
>
> While CDT can't sign[1], I wanted to ask a question. (Since we can't
> sign on, I don't want you to feel like you have to answer!)
>
> I was wondering: why the focus on Skype and MSFT?
>

I must admit that your asking this question as a CDT staffer is suspect;
isn't CDT funded by Microsoft?


>
> If I were to answer my own question, I'd probably say the focus is
> simply due to the wide usage base of Skype, its' relative usability and
> the fact that it was at one time considered very e2e-secure.  However, I
> wonder if this isn't more powerful as a more general open letter that
> talks about the principles you note and what kinds of measures
> (propreitary?) e2e communication technologies can take, using Skype as
> an example.  Maybe another good answer is a letter has to have an
> audience and making it more general might make it more of a
> less-powerful statement than a directed letter with asks at the end.
>
> best, Joe
>
> [1] CDT rarely signs on to things.
>
> On 1/16/13 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> >
> > I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> > and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> >
> > http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> >
> > The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > NK
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> >
>
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Senior Staff Technologist
> Center for Democracy & Technology
> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100
> Washington DC 20006-4011
> (p) 202-407-8825
> (f) 202-637-0968
> j...@cdt.org
> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Collin Anderson

Joe,

My experience has been that when a general letter is written with no
particular recipient, it ends up being received and acted on by *no one*.
Skype represents such a significant portion of the concern, even measured
based on traffic to this list, that it warrants direct questions and
focused efforts by civil society. I would add in that Skype's failures have
not only been ambiguity regarding transport security, but this last
particularly dark year in terms of infrastructure and client security.
The acquisition of the company by MSFT, who has strong commitments to GNI
and others, represents an unexplored opportunity to take up outstanding
concerns, and poke at this TOM issue.

However, I respect and share your broader concerns as equally legitimate,
and assure you that efforts won't be spared elsewhere. Here I think CDT
might make for a great bridge, even if it cannot participate at this moment.

Cordially,
Collin

(Signed, jealous Nadim did this before me.)

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall  wrote:

> (first post!)
>
> While CDT can't sign[1], I wanted to ask a question. (Since we can't
> sign on, I don't want you to feel like you have to answer!)
>
> I was wondering: why the focus on Skype and MSFT?
>
> If I were to answer my own question, I'd probably say the focus is
> simply due to the wide usage base of Skype, its' relative usability and
> the fact that it was at one time considered very e2e-secure.  However, I
> wonder if this isn't more powerful as a more general open letter that
> talks about the principles you note and what kinds of measures
> (propreitary?) e2e communication technologies can take, using Skype as
> an example.  Maybe another good answer is a letter has to have an
> audience and making it more general might make it more of a
> less-powerful statement than a directed letter with asks at the end.
>
> best, Joe
>
> [1] CDT rarely signs on to things.
>
> On 1/16/13 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> >
> > I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to Skype
> > and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> >
> > http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> >
> > The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > NK
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> >
>
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Senior Staff Technologist
> Center for Democracy & Technology
> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100
> Washington DC 20006-4011
> (p) 202-407-8825
> (f) 202-637-0968
> j...@cdt.org
> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>

-- 
*Collin David Anderson*
averysmallbird.com | @cda | Washington, D.C.
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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall

On Wed Jan 16 15:07:47 2013, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>
> I must admit that your asking this question as a CDT staffer is
> suspect; isn't CDT funded by Microsoft?

Yes, of course. We get something like 34% of our annual budget ([as of
2011][0]) from corporate contributions and MSFT certainly funds us
generally as well as for specific projects. CDT splits its' focus
between advocacy and promoting innovation because we think some of the
best things happen when that combined momentum exists.

The reason I ask this is more benign, I'd say: we expect the Obama
administration to put forward an [update to CALEA this year][1] that
sounds like it will impose backdoor obligations on secure communications
tools in the US. This is exceedingly concerning to us and it struck me
here that a more general focus of efforts like this will be very helpful
for efforts later this year.

best, Joe

[0]: http://cdt.org/financialsdocs/CDT2011FundingbyCategory.pdf
[1]:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57428067-83/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now/

-- 
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Senior Staff Technologist
Center for Democracy & Technology
1634 I ST NW STE 1100
Washington DC 20006-4011
(p) 202-407-8825
(f) 202-637-0968
j...@cdt.org
PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES

2013-01-16 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall

That makes a lot of sense. best, Joe

On 1/16/13 3:25 PM, Collin Anderson wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> My experience has been that when a general letter is written with no
> particular recipient, it ends up being received and acted on by /no
> one/. Skype represents such a significant portion of the concern, even
> measured based on traffic to this list, that it warrants direct
> questions and focused efforts by civil society. I would add in that
> Skype's failures have not only been ambiguity regarding transport
> security, but this last particularly dark year in terms of
> infrastructure and client security. The acquisition of the company by
> MSFT, who has strong commitments to GNI and others, represents an
> unexplored opportunity to take up outstanding concerns, and poke at this
> TOM issue.
> 
> However, I respect and share your broader concerns as equally
> legitimate, and assure you that efforts won't be spared elsewhere. Here
> I think CDT might make for a great bridge, even if it cannot participate
> at this moment.
> 
> Cordially,
> Collin
> 
> (Signed, jealous Nadim did this before me.)
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall  > wrote:
> 
> (first post!)
> 
> While CDT can't sign[1], I wanted to ask a question. (Since we can't
> sign on, I don't want you to feel like you have to answer!)
> 
> I was wondering: why the focus on Skype and MSFT?
> 
> If I were to answer my own question, I'd probably say the focus is
> simply due to the wide usage base of Skype, its' relative usability and
> the fact that it was at one time considered very e2e-secure.  However, I
> wonder if this isn't more powerful as a more general open letter that
> talks about the principles you note and what kinds of measures
> (propreitary?) e2e communication technologies can take, using Skype as
> an example.  Maybe another good answer is a letter has to have an
> audience and making it more general might make it more of a
> less-powerful statement than a directed letter with asks at the end.
> 
> best, Joe
> 
> [1] CDT rarely signs on to things.
> 
> On 1/16/13 11:58 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > Dear Privacy Advocates and Internet Freedom Activists,
> >
> > I call on you to review the following draft for our Open Letter to
> Skype
> > and present your name or the name of your organization as signatories:
> >
> > http://www.skypeopenletter.com/draft/
> >
> > The letter will be released soon. Feedback is also welcome.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > NK
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> >
> 
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Senior Staff Technologist
> Center for Democracy & Technology
> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100
> Washington DC 20006-4011
> (p) 202-407-8825
> (f) 202-637-0968
> j...@cdt.org 
> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *Collin David Anderson*
> averysmallbird.com  | @cda | Washington, D.C.
> 
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 

-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Senior Staff Technologist
Center for Democracy & Technology
1634 I ST NW STE 1100
Washington DC 20006-4011
(p) 202-407-8825
(f) 202-637-0968
j...@cdt.org
PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key

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Re: [liberationtech] Skype Open Letter: CALL FOR SIGNATORIES