Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
On Wed Nov 10 2010 07:25:42 GMT-0800 (PST) Joop Kiefte wrote: 2010/11/10 Michel RENON : - add a menu "Save a copy as..." Isn't that the same as the "Export" menu? it's very similar, but not the same : in Calc, you can export only in xhtml or pdf, and "save as" allows ods, sxw, xls, csv... As far as I understand, Export is for non-reversable saving. All items from the "Save as" list are readable. Maybe a good idea to make this a bit more monkey-proof... Jumping in for a bit. There is an extension that allows saving in several formats at once, http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/search/node/multi-save , maybe this is something that could be adapted to have a "save copy as" choice on the file menu. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
On Wed Nov 10 2010 07:25:42 GMT-0800 (PST) Joop Kiefte wrote: 2010/11/10 Michel RENON : - add a menu "Save a copy as..." Isn't that the same as the "Export" menu? it's very similar, but not the same : in Calc, you can export only in xhtml or pdf, and "save as" allows ods, sxw, xls, csv... As far as I understand, Export is for non-reversable saving. All items from the "Save as" list are readable. Maybe a good idea to make this a bit more monkey-proof... Jumping in for a bit. There is an extension that allows saving in several formats at once, http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/search/node/multi-save , maybe this is something that could be adapted to have a "save copy as" choice on the file menu. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
Sebastian Spaeth wrote: > Apparently our Mac OSX gui gets very little love. One person has > repeatedly asked to remove the pinstripes in the dialogs too. Perhaps > this is something to get involved with? > Quite. So to not forget this, logged a bug & attached a (not yet working) patch to it. That should at least provide a few pointers on what may need changing: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31525 Cheers, -- Thorsten pgpwwtMK7QnPO.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
2010/11/10 Michel RENON : >>> - add a menu "Save a copy as..." >> >> Isn't that the same as the "Export" menu? > > it's very similar, but not the same : > in Calc, you can export only in xhtml or pdf, and "save as" allows ods, sxw, > xls, csv... As far as I understand, Export is for non-reversable saving. All items from the "Save as" list are readable. Maybe a good idea to make this a bit more monkey-proof... ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
Le 10/11/10 11:26, Sebastian Spaeth a écrit : On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:27:13 +0100, Michel RENON wrote: I've been coding with C++ years ago, now i code mostly in PHP and Python (OpenERP). I'm also interested in UX and ergonomics, and i've made a (not so complete) proposal for Renaissance project Cool, welcome. Always glad to receive suggestions, and even more people helping to fix things. Since you know some C++, you could even help with that. Don't be afraid, the time most of this C++ has been written was when you were still coding in C++. :) Thanks ! And in which category of "easy hacks" should I insert them ? Easy Hacks are usually pretty specific in terms of coding activity. But do file your requests as bugs on bugs.freedesktop.org, it is easier to work through them one-by-one. OK, I do enter them ASAP. - add a menu "Save a copy as..." Isn't that the same as the "Export" menu? it's very similar, but not the same : in Calc, you can export only in xhtml or pdf, and "save as" allows ods, sxw, xls, csv... Michel ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:27:13 +0100, Michel RENON wrote: > I've been coding with C++ years ago, now i code mostly in PHP and Python > (OpenERP). > I'm also interested in UX and ergonomics, and i've made a (not so > complete) proposal for Renaissance project Cool, welcome. Always glad to receive suggestions, and even more people helping to fix things. Since you know some C++, you could even help with that. Don't be afraid, the time most of this C++ has been written was when you were still coding in C++. :) > And in which category of "easy hacks" should I insert them ? Easy Hacks are usually pretty specific in terms of coding activity. But do file your requests as bugs on bugs.freedesktop.org, it is easier to work through them one-by-one. > * MacOS : cursor visibility : > when I type some text, mouse pointer should be hidden (the arrow or the > I-beam). > It's a standard behaviour on Mac since... 1984 ! Apparently our Mac OSX gui gets very little love. One person has repeatedly asked to remove the pinstripes in the dialogs too. Perhaps this is something to get involved with? > - add a menu "Save a copy as..." Isn't that the same as the "Export" menu? > > - today, when you want to insert a spreadsheet or draw object in writer, > you have to do : > select menu "Insert" > "Object" > "OLE object", then choose a line in a > dialog ! > It should be much simpler ! most people don't know what "OLE" means. Wholeheartedly agreed! Sebastian pgpoyxlB2hfx1.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
Hi everybody, Just a short intro for my first post in this list : I'm a Mac OpenOffice user for several years. I've been coding with C++ years ago, now i code mostly in PHP and Python (OpenERP). I'm also interested in UX and ergonomics, and i've made a (not so complete) proposal for Renaissance project (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Michel_Renon). Le 28/10/10 11:37, Michael Meeks a écrit : Hi Christoph, ( and any other UX gurus out there :-) Hi guys; I'd -love- to get a number of "easy hacks" - ie. small fixes - that can be made to our ergonomics into the page here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Easy_Hacks These are entry level tasks for people - but IMHO[1] an accumulation of small failings creates an overall bad experience. The problem is that much of StarDiv's work (due to the process penalty for small changes) tends to be of the form "totally re-write the slides side-bar" rather than "fix slide side-bar-multi-select glitches" :-) I was wondering - do you have a list of small pet peeves, you know the stuff: extra clicks, broken keyboard/mouse grabs, bad keyboard navigation, over-complicated interactions in specific areas that we can turn into easy hacks ? It would be great to get some volunteer developers working on these things - and we are (so far) burning through our most easy hacks rather quickly. Here are some requests. Some are enhancements, others are bugs. I don't know if they can be considered as "easy hacks" or if i should enter them in the bugtracker. Please let me know. And in which category of "easy hacks" should I insert them ? (FYI, I already sent some of them in openoffice mailing list months ago, but they had few or no response) Thanks, Michel * MacOS : cursor visibility : when I type some text, mouse pointer should be hidden (the arrow or the I-beam). It's a standard behaviour on Mac since... 1984 ! - today, when you paste an image in writer, the anchor mode is always "to paragrah". This is very annoying when you paste several images : they overlap. it would be usefull to define the anchor - in preference - and/or during pasting - add a menu "Save a copy as..." I really miss that for Calc : it would allow me to save the current spreadsheet in csv, while not changing the current ods file. It should be usefull for writer, draw and impress too. - today, when you want to insert a spreadsheet or draw object in writer, you have to do : select menu "Insert" > "Object" > "OLE object", then choose a line in a dialog ! It should be much simpler ! most people don't know what "OLE" means. Provide a more direct acces to "insert LibreOffice Write/Calc/Draw/Impress object" function. Maybe show the "OLE Object" menu line only on windows ? - writer : be able to search text with format "hilight color" or "background color" - when you open 2 windows of the same document, there is a problem with the zoom : if you reduce zoom in one window, it may change rendering in the other window. Maybe the problem also appears whith scrolling. - draw : create a hand tool that would allow easy and fast scrolling. It would be activated/desactivated with a keybord shortcut In Inkscape, it seems to be CTRL + ALT - draw : change the object selection exmple : create a big rect 'rectangle1'. create a smaller rect 'rectangle2', inside 'rectangle1'. For the user, 'rectangle2' is above 'rectangle1'. Select 'rectangle1' : his handles are shown. Click inside 'rectangle2' : nothing changes. With Inkscape (and others drawing software), 'rectangle2' is selected. - have only one type of floating windows for tools for example, the tools "border", "color" show a standard window. But most others tools (specialy drawing tools) use the openoffice implementation of floating windows. Why not use only the openoffice implementation ? (I don't know if it's technically possible or if it'll create UX problems) writer, mac : small freeze at startup After a cold start of writer, il you start to type some text, openoffice freezes for some seconds (loading some code ?) and then shows the text. It's not a bug, but it gives the impression that openoffice is *slow* or *unusuable*... * mouse position problem The problem appears when you select (single-clic) an object (drawing or OLE) in writer, Impress or Draw. We have several steps :
Re: [Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 10:37 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote: > Hi guys; I'd -love- to get a number of "easy hacks" - ie. small fixes - > that can be made to our ergonomics into the page here: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Easy_Hacks > > These are entry level tasks for people - but IMHO[1] an accumulation of > small failings creates an overall bad experience. The problem is that > much of StarDiv's work (due to the process penalty for small changes) > tends to be of the form "totally re-write the slides side-bar" rather > than "fix slide side-bar-multi-select glitches" :-) I'm not a UX guy, but I'ld love to have some nicer index configuration dialog in Writer... I hope some small wins could help to make it easier to understand for users (mostly the Entries tab page). Regards, -- Cédric Bosdonnat LibreOffice hacker http://documentfoundation.org OOo Eclipse Integration developer http://cedric.bosdonnat.free.fr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
[Libreoffice] UX opportunity ... / Easy Hacks
Hi Christoph, ( and any other UX gurus out there :-) Hi guys; I'd -love- to get a number of "easy hacks" - ie. small fixes - that can be made to our ergonomics into the page here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Easy_Hacks These are entry level tasks for people - but IMHO[1] an accumulation of small failings creates an overall bad experience. The problem is that much of StarDiv's work (due to the process penalty for small changes) tends to be of the form "totally re-write the slides side-bar" rather than "fix slide side-bar-multi-select glitches" :-) I was wondering - do you have a list of small pet peeves, you know the stuff: extra clicks, broken keyboard/mouse grabs, bad keyboard navigation, over-complicated interactions in specific areas that we can turn into easy hacks ? It would be great to get some volunteer developers working on these things - and we are (so far) burning through our most easy hacks rather quickly. If you can add some to the wiki page (with brief UX style descriptions) and add a Skills: 'UX taste' or something ;-) then I can come and triage them to add code pointers to make the fixes even easier for newbies :-) [ and perhaps we achieve something good ]. Clearly the tasks need to be bite-sized :-) thus: * Good examples: + add XYZ missing keybinding to calc + remove redundant click in dialog ABC + in the slide-sorter, fix keyboard interaction so: + we do not jump back to slide one when multi-selecting + pressing 'left arrow' when slides are selected should move to the previous page + draw / object selection handles should be larger: 8x8 pixels * Bad examples: + replace all 'Apply' buttons with instant apply + unify all keybindings to new scheme + write new clipart selector Presumably you have a lot of such small annoyances piled up somewhere in the back of your mind :-) [ at least I know I have, though they are hard to specify ]. Any chance of some love there ? I think we can make a real difference and avoid our new hackers from duplicating work, and get them sucked into UI improvement with a little love here. Please ping me as you add them so we can do the deeper research needed to make them easy for programmers. Thanks ! Michael. [1] - and yes I've read a lot of papers on usability etc. ;-) my favourite was: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog000249.html -- michael.me...@novell.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
