[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #43 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #42) > (In reply to skagon from comment #39) > >... > > Yeah, why would I care about a bug that was not submitted by me, and solves > > nothing I'd care about? Let whoever submitted that bug check if it was > > resolved or not. > > Because, as you are dependent on others to design and implement this open > source software, actually testing and commenting on what is relevant to the > project would be more appreciated than your intransigent position. > > Alternatively code submissions are welcome. Looking forward to your first > submission. My first code here would be to undo this crap. Oh, wait… You WONTFIX, then I WONTTEST… -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|needsUXEval | CC|ilmari.lauhakangas@libreoff | |ice.org,| |libreoffice-ux-advise@lists | |.freedesktop.org, | |pavlograd...@gmail.com, | |vsfo...@libreoffice.org | -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|CLOSED --- Comment #42 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to skagon from comment #39) >... > Yeah, why would I care about a bug that was not submitted by me, and solves > nothing I'd care about? Let whoever submitted that bug check if it was > resolved or not. Because, as you are dependent on others to design and implement this open source software, actually testing and commenting on what is relevant to the project would be more appreciated than your intransigent position. Alternatively code submissions are welcome. Looking forward to your first submission. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #41 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to Buovjaga from comment #40) > (In reply to skagon from comment #38) > > • Mozilla Thunderbird : this is a case on its own. Practically ALL of the > > keys are there as shortcuts and nobody gets confused when writing an e-mail. > > Would you look at that! For example, N is for Next unread message, P is for > > previous unread, B is for previous message, F next message, W is for Watch > > thread, etc. Nobody "confuses" the shortcuts with actual text input. > > Accidentally hitting these surprise shortcuts in Thunderbird annoys me very > much. It makes the UI seem unstable. It's not "unstable", it's quick and useful. I've been using Thunderbird for almost 20 years now and I don't ever remember hitting a key accidentally and being surprised. I know when keys are meant to do something *other* than type. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #40 from Buovjaga --- (In reply to skagon from comment #38) > • Mozilla Thunderbird : this is a case on its own. Practically ALL of the > keys are there as shortcuts and nobody gets confused when writing an e-mail. > Would you look at that! For example, N is for Next unread message, P is for > previous unread, B is for previous message, F next message, W is for Watch > thread, etc. Nobody "confuses" the shortcuts with actual text input. Accidentally hitting these surprise shortcuts in Thunderbird annoys me very much. It makes the UI seem unstable. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #39 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #37) > (In reply to skagon from comment #36) > > > > What I had requested in comment 6 is that the original functionality is > > restored. Original functionality is that accelerators work WITHOUT pressing > > [ALT]. There are no "changed goalposts". Read comment 1 and see what I say > > there! > > And that is the WONTFIX, it is not coming back. > > Please focus on the actual implementation in master branch resolving bug > 54169 as present now in a nightly against 24.8.0 Yeah, why would I care about a bug that was not submitted by me, and solves nothing I'd care about? Let whoever submitted that bug check if it was resolved or not. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #38 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #32) > (In reply to skagon from comment #29) > > Every piece of software works like that. > > It is very sad, that incorrect generalization is used to defend one's point > of view, attempting to trick people in believing that this is common > software behavior (using examples from a specialized graphic-oriented > software). > > The counter-argument was already given right here, in comment 14: > > It may be seen e.g. in MS Word: starting it without a file opens their > > "start > > center", with a list of recent documents, and a "sidebar" with items named > > "Home", "New", "Open", "Account", "Feedback", "Options" (see screenshot). > > None of these items work without Alt. Since you seem to want further proof: • Media Player Classic (a ton of keys) • VLC (same as above) • Mozilla Thunderbird : this is a case on its own. Practically ALL of the keys are there as shortcuts and nobody gets confused when writing an e-mail. Would you look at that! For example, N is for Next unread message, P is for previous unread, B is for previous message, F next message, W is for Watch thread, etc. Nobody "confuses" the shortcuts with actual text input. • Facebook (on browser): it's got a ton of one-key shortcuts. C for comment, L for like, S for share post, J to jump to next post etc. …need I go on? Probably not, since you're just being obtuse. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #37 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to skagon from comment #36) > > What I had requested in comment 6 is that the original functionality is > restored. Original functionality is that accelerators work WITHOUT pressing > [ALT]. There are no "changed goalposts". Read comment 1 and see what I say > there! And that is the WONTFIX, it is not coming back. Please focus on the actual implementation in master branch resolving bug 54169 as present now in a nightly against 24.8.0 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 Wally changed: What|Removed |Added CC|bwwald...@gmail.com | See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda | |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15 | |7649, | |https://bugs.documentfounda | |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54 | |169 | -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #36 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #34) > Actually seems behavior of the SC, with fix for bug 54169 in place for a > 24.8 release, now does exactly what OP in comment 6 had requested. And this > issue is resolved WFM > > At 24.8 there are no SC accelerators *until* the is pressed and held. > Mnemonics are not visible and no action performed, honoring the Win32 > SPI_GETKEYBOARDCUES setting. What I had requested in comment 6 is that the original functionality is restored. Original functionality is that accelerators work WITHOUT pressing [ALT]. There are no "changed goalposts". Read comment 1 and see what I say there! > Expected Results: > Keyboard should work. Pressing [TAB] should cycle through the options, > shortcuts > should be working, e.g. [W] should open a new Write document. I don't know why you are trying to make it seem as if I am "changing the goalposts" by lying. It's right there in comment 1 for all to see! For the millionth time: it used to work properly and fine (no [ALT] needed), until someone decided to screw everything up. Please fix it! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #35 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #34) > Actually seems behavior of the SC, with fix for bug 54169 in place for a > 24.8 release, now does exactly what OP in comment 6 had requested. Indeed; but OP opted to move the goalpost later. And even the wording in comment 6 wasn't "make it consistent", but "let it work without Alt". Thus, WF is OK. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #34 from V Stuart Foote --- Actually seems behavior of the SC, with fix for bug 54169 in place for a 24.8 release, now does exactly what OP in comment 6 had requested. And this issue is resolved WFM At 24.8 there are no SC accelerators *until* the is pressed and held. Mnemonics are not visible and no action performed, honoring the Win32 SPI_GETKEYBOARDCUES setting. @skagon, please test a current nightly against 24.8 and see resolution there. Here are instructions for a parallel install [1] and the nightly installer builds can be downloaded here [2]. =-ref-= [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel/Windows [2] https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86_64@tb77-TDF/ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #33 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- > > It is very sad, that incorrect generalization is used to defend one's point > of view, attempting to trick people in believing that this is common > software behavior (using examples from a specialized graphic-oriented > software). It is sadder to see dogmatism in people who will just ruin an already present functionality, just because they don't like it, or it doesn't conform to their view of "how it should be". If you'd like, I can make a list of all the programmes that have that very same common behaviour. Believe me, the list is long. VERY long. Read my comment 31 again. It's right above. Go ahead, I'll wait. Now that you (presumably) have read it, what do you have to say? Again, the functionality was there! Someone decided it should stop working, initially because they believed it "should work like Linux", only with [ALT]. That is wrong. Now you come along and practically claim that LO users are stupid, and won't understand the difference between the Start Centre and an open Writer or Calc document. Got any better arguments, or shall you revert to "neh neh neh I won't fix it" whilst stomping your foot at the same time? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #32 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to skagon from comment #29) > Every piece of software works like that. It is very sad, that incorrect generalization is used to defend one's point of view, attempting to trick people in believing that this is common software behavior (using examples from a specialized graphic-oriented software). The counter-argument was already given right here, in comment 14: > It may be seen e.g. in MS Word: starting it without a file opens their "start > center", with a list of recent documents, and a "sidebar" with items named > "Home", "New", "Open", "Account", "Feedback", "Options" (see screenshot). > None of these items work without Alt. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #31 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #30) > (In reply to skagon from comment #29) > > This argument does not mean that there should be inconsistency inside the > same program. LibreOffice is a *document* software, and one of its main > focus points is text. In Writer and Calc (and Math), typing is the main > workflow. Start Center is nothing but an auxiliary tool. Having its behavior > different from the main parts of the program is inconsistent with itself. It > would confuse people, making them think "this is how things work in this > program". And the benefit of what you suggest (just because "it is possible > to implement") is practically indistinguishable from zero. > > WONTFIX is the correct resolution. I disagree. The "consistency" argument is a non-sequitur. We're talking about the Start Centre. Auxiliary tool or not, it is there, and nobody would confuse it with anything else. Are you assuming that the users are morons? That they can't make the distinction between "Writer", "Calc", and "Start Centre"? They would get confused? Oh, please! Like, if pressing [W] in the Start Centre opens up a new blank Writer document, someone would think that just pressing [W] anywhere, rather than typing the letter "W", would open up a new blank document? **That** is your argument? Seriously? Please, let's get serious here. That functionality ** already existed ** in LO in the past, and it was damn useful! Please, put it back in! Leave the dogmatism outside and see this with a clear mind, and without thinking that LO users are stupid and won't understand how the keyboard works! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #30 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to skagon from comment #29) This argument does not mean that there should be inconsistency inside the same program. LibreOffice is a *document* software, and one of its main focus points is text. In Writer and Calc (and Math), typing is the main workflow. Start Center is nothing but an auxiliary tool. Having its behavior different from the main parts of the program is inconsistent with itself. It would confuse people, making them think "this is how things work in this program". And the benefit of what you suggest (just because "it is possible to implement") is practically indistinguishable from zero. WONTFIX is the correct resolution. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #29 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- > To repeat myself: whether accelerators are shown or not, I am challenging > the argument that one can expect simple keystrokes to start a function. I will challenge the argument that simple keystrokes should not start a function. Every piece of software works like that. Photoshop has single-key selection for tools. SketchUp works the same. KiCad, same. Basically, almost **every** programme that does not have (or is) some kind of text editor, uses single keys for functions or tools. The Start Centre does not use the keys for anything. Why the hell not use those keys to speed up selection? [W] for Writer document, [C] for Calc document, [D] for Draw document, etc. I reiterate: in the Start Centre, these keys are just sitting there doing nothing! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #28 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to skagon from comment #27) > Please check attachment #2 I just posted. This is what I see every time I > close a document. I fixed bug 54169 only yesterday. It will be available in a future version (24.8). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #27 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- > To repeat myself: whether accelerators are shown or not, I am challenging > the argument that one can expect simple keystrokes to start a function. Fact > is that we have the focus on the documents/file list (cursor keys to > navigate) and alternative access is needed for other UI controls. Please check attachment #2 I just posted. This is what I see every time I close a document. Notice that the underlined accelerators/mnemonics are literally *everywhere*. Also notice how the "Recent Documents" is highlighted, but nothing in the actual list. Not even an outline or a hint that this is the active (focused) area. For all intents and purposes, every time I see this, I think that the "Recent Documents" entry is active, therefore if I press the "down arrow" key, I should go to "Templates", and then "Writer Document". Actually, I find it really annoying (not to mention counterintuitive) that the left list is not working as one unit, but rather there are three distinct areas and you actually have to [TAB], just to go from one area to another. This should be **one** unit! I don't mind the separators, but at least the arrow keys should allow you to move continuously! Now, if "Recent Documents" is active, there should be some indication on the right side too. And the underlines should be gone, since they don't work (without [ALT]). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #26 from ska...@yahoo.co.uk --- Created attachment 192515 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=192515=edit Normal Start Centre view (for me) This is what I see in the Start Centre. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #25 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #24) > Please Heiko, did you read comment 16? Not in detail. To repeat myself: whether accelerators are shown or not, I am challenging the argument that one can expect simple keystrokes to start a function. Fact is that we have the focus on the documents/file list (cursor keys to navigate) and alternative access is needed for other UI controls. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #24 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #23) > (In reply to skagon from comment #15) > > To cut to the important point here, if the underlines are visible, the > > accelerators should work WITHOUT any other key... > Good argument. Please Heiko, did you read comment 16? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #23 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to skagon from comment #15) > To cut to the important point here, if the underlines are visible, the > accelerators should work WITHOUT any other key... Good argument. But the SC has two panels, and I expect to jump to the first item in the list when pressing a key in the right documents pane. The Recent Documents/Templates toggle might fool a little but you are always on the right pane. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #22 from Wally --- I just tested and it finally now works without the ALT key. Thank you -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 Mike Kaganski changed: What|Removed |Added See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda | |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15 | |2223| CC||bwwald...@gmail.com --- Comment #21 from Mike Kaganski --- *** Bug 152223 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 Stéphane Guillou (stragu) changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WONTFIX --- Comment #20 from Stéphane Guillou (stragu) --- As per comment 19, let's close as "won't fix". Thanks everyone. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 Mike Kaganski changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15 ||2223 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 --- Comment #19 from Mike Kaganski --- So now, after tdf#54169 got fixed, there's no mnemonic shown in the start center on Windows, until you press [Alt]. As said, my take on this is WF. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 141776] Shown mnemonic/accelerators in Start Center require + key on Windows
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141776 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Application shortcuts not |Shown mnemonic/accelerators |working in Start Center |in Start Center require |after closing document (see |+ key on Windows |comment 4) | --- Comment #18 from V Stuart Foote --- Adjusted the title to the continuing issue of mnemonic/accelerators on the Start Center UI requiring the + keying to trigger. Main menu shortcuts and accelerators are no longer the concern on this BZ issue. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
