[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

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--- Comment #85 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #84)

> ... Any case when LibreOffice doesn't follow system preferences
> is a bug, so people setting their environment according to their preference,
> should not need to tweak LibreOffice UI settings personally.

Agree with that, however there are substantial Accessibility and other use
cases (e.g. preparing documentation by screen capture, or live
instruction/demos) where ability for LO to selectively scale class (menu, TB,
dialog) of UI elements remains legitimate enhancement outside scope of average
usage provided by os/DE scaling methods. As enhancement still valid.

> 
> The SAL_FORCEDPI workaround is enough (needs better documenting?) for cases
> not properly supported for now. ...

Unfortunately SAL_FORCEDPI environment variable does nothing for Windows os/DE
(just verified it does not [1]). Documentation [2] indicates support for gtk3 &
qt5/kf5 plugins only--so not a global workaround.


=-ref-=
[1] Version: 7.6.2.1 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 56f7684011345957bbf33a7ee678afaf4d2ba333
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19045; UI render: Skia/Vulkan; VCL: win
Locale: en-US (en_US); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

no visible change to UI with default, SAL_FORCEDPI=160, or SAL_FORCEDPI=220 env
set.

[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Environment_variables

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--- Comment #84 from Mike Kaganski  ---
IMO, this needs to be closed; and instead, every specific case (like comment 73
for Qt5 having different fonts in different UI elements; comment 80 about XFCE,
etc.) need own issues about improper handling of system preferences (bugs in
existing VCL plugins, or missing integration for some environments). Any case
when LibreOffice doesn't follow system preferences is a bug, so people setting
their environment according to their preference, should not need to tweak
LibreOffice UI settings personally.

The SAL_FORCEDPI workaround is enough (needs better documenting?) for cases not
properly supported for now. The projector argument is IMO not a valid one,
because it would apply to any displayed software (so any software would need
that configuration?), and actually needs setting the projector's resolution
accordingly, so that UI elements have a readable size.

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--- Comment #83 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to waylon_darien from comment #82)
> All my other favorite apps allow me to manually change
> the size of the menu text.
Which are those?

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--- Comment #82 from waylon_dar...@proton.me ---
This issue has forced me to learn that libreoffice is hard to beat. I've been
looking into alternatives to libreoffice specifically because it appears the
developers are refusing to re-integrate this feature. All my other favorite
apps allow me to manually change the size of the menu text. Why does it make
sense that I can increase the icon size through a menu option, while meanwhile
the menu font is still so tiny. I'm using arch linux with suckless DWM. I'm
happy to see this thread is still active. I think enough people want this
feature back that refusing to implement it is anti-customizability and frankly
a little anti-accessibility considering how many people with aging eyesight
liked having this feature. Why is menu font size so confusing and troublesome
to libreoffice users that it makes more sense to fiddle with your package
manager and command line options instead?

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--- Comment #81 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to count3rmeasure from comment #80)
> Maybe so, but on Kali, i.e. mostly Debian(!) with XFCE, no amount of system
> fiddling is helping scale.

If you start with "SAL_FORCEDPI=144 libreoffice" it will scale up. Installing
the gtk3 or kf5 toolkit does an even better job in integrating the UI in the
system look and feel (sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gtk3).

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--- Comment #80 from count3rmeasure  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #75)
> (In reply to Janek from comment #74)
> > ...LibreOffice draws the UI using its own
> > custom widgets (maybe Java ones?) completely ignoring any system settings.
> 
> Not true for me on KDE. Changing the font size for menu, for example,
> affects LibreOffice properly.

Maybe so, but on Kali, i.e. mostly Debian(!) with XFCE, no amount of system
fiddling is helping scale. I wish that this didn't have to be a show obstinancy
by the developers (and, I'm assuming, their supporters), but this is *not* an
esoteric feature only needed by a select few who can be safely ignored!  If I
struggle to read the GUI, I'm going to struggle to use the program.  I should
note I have at this point several days of searching through menus, googling,
and trawling forum posts looking for an answer to why of all programs LO seems
to not respect font scaling for my desktop

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--- Comment #79 from Buovjaga  ---
*** Bug 105873 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #78 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 140900 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #77 from Jean-Baptiste Faure  ---
Why not use SAL_FORCEDPI environment variable? Something like that:

SAL_FORCEDPI=150 SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gen libreoffice7.3

You can tweak the value assigned to SAL_FORCEDPI to fit your need, taking into
account the actual resolution of your screen.

Best regards. JBF

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--- Comment #76 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 147228 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #75 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Janek from comment #74)
> ...LibreOffice draws the UI using its own
> custom widgets (maybe Java ones?) completely ignoring any system settings.

Not true for me on KDE. Changing the font size for menu, for example, affects
LibreOffice properly.

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--- Comment #74 from Janek  ---
I specifically created an account in this bug tracker to say that I am also
affected by this. I am on Linux and LibreOffice draws the UI using its own
custom widgets (maybe Java ones?) completely ignoring any system settings. Thus
the advice of just scaling the system font does not work for me. The effect I
am seeing is identical to third attachment.

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--- Comment #73 from Konstantin  ---
What the hell with LO UI font?! The menu bar follows QT5 style, everything else
doesn't! I have 96x96 dpi and completely unusable peace of software because of
the tiny font I can't change!

Version: 7.2.3.2, QT5, UNIX platform

Miss the old version.:(

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--- Comment #72 from trav  ---
Agreed sheet tab font is way too small in Libre Office calc. Would love a way
to scale the UI there so I don't have to hold my laptop right up to my face.

LibreOffice 7.1.7.2 10(Build:2)
Fedora 34
Thinkpad t480s

thanks!!

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--- Comment #71 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Charles C from comment #70)
> I'm not sure what you mean by special setup; I don't have anything special
> going on here.

Let's discuss it in bug 144784.

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--- Comment #70 from Charles C  ---
(In reply to Heiko T from comment #67)
> From what I understand is that you run a special setup where all applications 
> draw text nicely but LibreOffice not.

I'm not sure what you mean by special setup; I don't have anything special
going on here.


> Mind to file a new bug report with hardware/configuration information?

Sure.

Hardware:
=

x86_64 / AMD64 system
Video card: AMD Baffin [Radeon RX 460/560D / Pro 450/455/460/555/555X/560/560X]
Monitors: 30" 2560x1600, approx 100dpi (had this wrong before)

Software:
=
Debian 11 / Bullseye
Desktop: cinnamon 4.8.6-2
Libreoffice 1.7.0.4-4

Settings:
=

System/Cinnamon settings regarding this are all defaults (I think).

Font selection:
  Default font: Sans Regular 9pt
  Desktop font: Noto Sans Regular 10pt
  Document font: Cantarell Regular 11pt
  Monospace font: Monospace Regular 11pt
  Window title font: Sans Bold 10pt

  Text scaling factor: 1.0

Accessibility:
  Large text: off
  Desktop zoom: off


Those are all the settings I've found that seem related.

I'm not sure why LibreOffice's menu bar is rendering 30% smaller text than
every other application.  It is, however, suspiciously close to the ration of
standard old desktop displays (72dpi) to my displays (100dpi).  Maybe it's
calculating text size and assuming "less than 200dpi, it's not high-dpi so
don't scale the text" or something.

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--- Comment #69 from ba...@poczta.fm ---
@Heiko

"From what I understand is that you run a special setup"

This question was for Charles, but I see similar effect and I don't have
anything special. I see this in openSUSE Leap 15.3 and Tumbleweed
(generic/minimal desktop setup). I prepared a screenshot, but since it
basically shows the same as one provided by Charles, I didn't attach it to
avoid clutter.

All it takes to see is -- install VirtualBox, install Tumbleweed, install for
example LibreOffice + VLC + FireFox and compare the menus.

So if the new report is indeed needed...

@Charles

... if you post one, please share the link here, thank you.

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--- Comment #68 from Yury  ---
> Which application does zoom the UI?
And if the answer be "none", none should ever do, too?
Is it even relevant? 

But fine, fine. Softmaker's Office does. 
Three sizes of controls and UI text size on a slider. 
All laid out nicely in a separate tab in the options, no messing around with
font substitution tables or external configs.

Firefox does (or did, until extensions extinction), via ThemeTweaker addon.
(Palemoon still does, same way.)

Emacs does (although not always in a straightforward manner), and I don't
intend that to be a joke.

There's at least another one desktop I use frequently, but I won't even quote
it, as it doesn't rely on menus and dialogs heavily.

So?

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--- Comment #67 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Charles C from comment #66)
> Any solution would be great.

>From what I understand is that you run a special setup where all applications
draw text nicely but LibreOffice not. Mind to file a new bug report with
hardware/configuration information?

(In reply to Yury from comment #65)
> Guys, did you take a pledge against the "variable zoom in the UI", or what?

Which application does zoom the UI?

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--- Comment #66 from Charles C  ---
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that only a zoom-UI setting would fix the problem
for me.

I would be happy for any solution that let my not-so-young-anymore eyes read
the interface/menubar easily.  That could be a small-medium-large text size
preference, or even just a fixed size if it was as large and contrasty as other
apps are, i.e. 7px black-on-white instead of 5px black-on-grey.

Any solution would be great.

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--- Comment #65 from Yury  ---
Those aren't "bugs", those are "wrong solutions", in fact, not in name.

Guys, did you take a pledge against the "variable zoom in the UI", or what?

People are asking you to spare their eyesight, or at least to not throw out old
solutions for that, before something new is even in. There is no "ideology" in
that, not as far as I can see.

And you hardly can refer to a "lack of human resources", because somebody is
always introducing small "impovements" in the "look".

Wouldn't want to judge the look, but the readability isn't getting any better
(highly abstract darker gray symbols on gray background as default, oh well).

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--- Comment #64 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to bantu from comment #63)
> LO so far uses the tiniest font possible (as shown in screenshot posted by
> Charles) and on top of it, it uses gray background like _no_ other app
> around. This makes "LO so special".

Okay, those bugs need to be fixed. But a _variable zoom_ on the UI would be the
wrong solution.

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--- Comment #63 from ba...@poczta.fm ---
While I don't know what old "Scaling" did for sure, and it is the fact desktop
apps uses probably plethora of settings (judging by their look) the fact
remains -- LibreOffice is an outlier.

To answer Heiko "What makes LibreOffice so special that you expect UI scaling
when all other applications use fix values."

LO so far uses the tiniest font possible (as shown in screenshot posted by
Charles) and on top of it, it uses gray background like _no_ other app around.
This makes "LO so special".

So it is apparent that LibreOffice uses some cryptic settings/customization and
it be more than useful to make it clear what config file is the source of font
sizes and background color for LO. It would be minimum so we, users, could at
least make LO look like other apps.

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Charles C  changed:

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 CC||charlesc-documentfoundation
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--- Comment #62 from Charles C  ---
This issue affects me significantly.  I just let my system update to
Bullseye/Debian 11 and the zoom-interface functionality went away with the
switch to LibreOffice 7.  I had always had to use this function in LibreOffice
apps because the menu bar text (and various other UI bits) was too small.

All other applications are fine for me, whether they're GTK or Qt or whatever. 
Just LibreOffice is too small.  See this for comparison:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=175110

On my system, other applications' menu bar text is 7 pixels high. 
LibreOffice's is 5 pixels and too small to read comfortably.  I've set the icon
sizes bigger, which takes care of that, but the text in the menu bar and
controls is too small.

I'm not sure if my system DPI has anything to do with this.  I have older large
LCD monitors with pixels that are much denser than an old traditional 72dpi,
but not nearly as high as modern 4k monitors that are >>200dpi.  My monitors
are about 135dpi.

However, as I said, all other applications are fine.  It's just LibreOffice
that's a problem for me.  So bumping up the whole desktop is not really a
solution, as that makes other applications too big.

Any resolution of this issue would be greatly appreciated.

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--- Comment #61 from Charles C  ---
Created attachment 175110
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=175110=edit
Font-size comparison between LibreOffice and other applications

All other applications show menu bar text approx 7 pixels high in my
configuration.  Libreoffice menu bar text is 5 pixels and much harder to read.

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--- Comment #60 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to MarjaE from comment #59)
> Firefox allows (a) preferences to set a readable minimum front size, and (b)
> userChrome.css and userContent.css to set a fixed font size. There are some
> bugs when rendering web pages.
> 
> Now what options does LibreOffice have to set readable user interface font
> sizes?

None. This enhancement is to reimplement User Interface scaling but providing
HiDPI support in a modern and maintainable fashion.

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--- Comment #59 from MarjaE  ---
Firefox allows (a) preferences to set a readable minimum front size, and (b)
userChrome.css and userContent.css to set a fixed font size. There are some
bugs when rendering web pages.

Now what options does LibreOffice have to set readable user interface font
sizes?

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--- Comment #58 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 140990 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #57 from Yury  ---
Allow me to disagree. 
First, terminal emulators and their "UIs" rather aren't a good case here.

Then, every major browser (Chrome, Firefox) has an option to regulate at least
the UI font size, be it through a configuration setting or an addon.

Working in word processor means even more looking at menus - and that procedure
should be made as convenient as possible.

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--- Comment #56 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #55)
> Every app where one would expect lots of looking at servicing/helping text
> (word or spreadsheet processor comes to mind!), there should be an option to
> regulate that text appearance.

Konsole (terminal application on KDE) can scale the font size of the text but
not the UI menu. Exactly as we do. The same for browsers and almost every other
application.

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--- Comment #55 from Yury  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #54)
> What makes LibreOffice so special that you expect UI scaling when all other
> applications use fix values. 

But they don't, at least not 'all'. 
E.g., Firefox has 'Theme and font size changer' addon.
Every app where one would expect lots of looking at servicing/helping text
(word or spreadsheet processor comes to mind!), there should be an option to
regulate that text appearance.

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--- Comment #54 from Heiko Tietze  ---
What makes LibreOffice so special that you expect UI scaling when all other
applications use fix values. 

(Rhetorical question that doesn't need to be answered, just to illustrate my
position.)

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--- Comment #53 from dev...@oddhack.org ---
I'd also benefit from this change. Note: not using any "Desktop Environment",
just a traditional X window manager. It is very annoying to have UI text almost
too small to see while I can arbitrarily scale content using the zoom slider.

Someone on SU did come up with a workaround involving installing
libreoffice-gtk3 and setting GDK_SCALE, which is an improvement over trying to
read tiny text in the menu bar, but not a great one and could go away at any
time AFAIK.

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||0654

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |heiko.tietze@documentfounda
   |.freedesktop.org|tion.org

--- Comment #52 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Please add keyword needsUXEval and CC
libreoffice-ux-adv...@lists.freedesktop.org if input from UX is needed.

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--- Comment #51 from bchemnet  ---
William - I can confirm that the font size issue seems to have disappeared when
I switched to XFCE 4.14.

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Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org
   Priority|low |high

--- Comment #50 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing enhancement priority to 'high' since the number of people in CC is
higher than 20

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--- Comment #49 from William Gathoye  ---
Hi bchemnet,

I assume you are still using XFCE 4.12 based on GTK2? Since the GTK2 VCL
toolkit is deprecated for LibreOffice, TDF won't maintain this old branch.
Please migrate to the GTK3 toolkit instead.

Good news ! XFCE 4.14 based on GTK3 has been released some times ago. Just
install it from the sid or backports repo and please let us know if this helps.

Regards,

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--- Comment #48 from bchemnet  ---
I recently updated from 6.1.4 to 6.3 rc2 (Debian XFCE).  Now my formula bar
font appears to be ~12 point, considerably larger than the previous version.

And while I completely understand why the comments above are asking for a
larger font, I actually now want my old style back, as the new font and size
appears ugly on my screen.  As far as I can tell, it is *not* pulling the
information from my system UI in any way, as it matches nothing else in my
system display nor in the Libreoffice interface.

Could we please just have the option to set the font & size of this bar?  Even
if no other scaling is implemented (I understand the arguments against it
above), is there a technical reason that this cannot be user set in isolation? 
Obviously it can be changed at some stage during software build, so where
exactly is it being set?

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--- Comment #47 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #46)
> This regression highly impact accessibility because making user able to
> increase size of the interface was a great advantage of LibreOffice compared
> to Microsoft Office. Also as I understand, LibreOffice design team seems to
> want to make LibreOffice customisable and adaptable to the user needs.

@Alex, this was a conscious developer decision to prune code of an
unsupportable feature--in effect for the 5.3, 5.4, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2 and now 6.3
major releases. 
We can not reasonably now call it a regression as it is long gone.

Yes it would be a good enhancement, and worth reimplementing. And, yes it could
be considered an Assistive Technology for our low vision users, but best done
in context with other needed improvements (like bug 105610).

Refactoring to reimplement UI scaling in a modern fashion (with HiDPI and
render engine support) would be a substantial development effort.

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Alex ARNAUD  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||accessibility
 CC||alexarn...@hypra.fr

--- Comment #46 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
This regression highly impact accessibility because making user able to
increase size of the interface was a great advantage of LibreOffice compared to
Microsoft Office. Also as I understand, LibreOffice design team seems to want
to make LibreOffice customisable and adaptable to the user needs.

Best regards,
Alex.

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--- Comment #45 from Roger  ---
Windows UI scaling is neither clean nor helpful; it enlarges EVERYTHING, not
just the App UI. Even if I do enlarge the fonts alone (which is possible in the
OS), that enlarges ALL the fonts, not just the font of the formula bar (which
is truly what I need; 9-pt Segoe UI ... &*^*@#$%^!!!).

Currently I'm using a 3rd party utility (from Wintools) to change a category of
fonts (this has some side effects, which I can live with) to make the formula
bar usable.

The ability to scale the UI separately from the data display, which I
understand went away for reasons, was a highly useful setting, and I'd
appreciate it being returned to us users in some way, shape, or form.

I think scaling should be pursued as a set of settings. Menu, toolbars, input
boxes, default font sizes, and so forth. In fact, if LO copied Excel's choice,
that the default font size for a new spreadsheet is the default input font
size, that wouldn't be horrid.

Thanks for all your work in development, btw; don't want to minimize that.

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--- Comment #44 from Stefano  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #43)
> [..] restoring it requires NEW development effort.

Given the number of discussions scattered in the forums, and bug report
duplicates here, all pointing in this direction, it seems clear that many
people are affected by the issue.

The question is: given the large number of cases and arguments provided by
users, would a new development effort be worth?

(I would argue that's the case)

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--- Comment #43 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #42)
> My apologies, but do the decision-makers even understand the issue raised
> here (and in #67372)?? For I, for example, did not understand at all the
> reason for closing #67372 (which, incidentally, is actually NOT a duplicate
> of this #101646), and I do not actually understand the argumentation for
> these options removal.
>...

bug 67373 was dragged out of WFM status for a user complaining of Calc input
line font size--that is exactly bug 106521 already dup'd here. As noted in
#67372 refactoring needed to restore UI control to scale menus and dialogs
independent of OS/DE control is a substantial undertaking. It was stripped out
to support OS/DE control needed for emerging DE (Waynland, gtk3, etc) as well
as for HiDPI; restoring it requires NEW development effort.

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--- Comment #42 from Yury  ---
My apologies, but do the decision-makers even understand the issue raised here
(and in #67372)?? For I, for example, did not understand at all the reason for
closing #67372 (which, incidentally, is actually NOT a duplicate of this
#101646), and I do not actually understand the argumentation for these options
removal.

I *believe* the end-user *might* "legitimately" wish to independently change UI
font face AND UI font size AND the scale of UI elements, to better suite one's
current requirements on application *usability*.

The bulk of actual work is done in applications, not in desktop environments.
And even applications may differ w/r to their requirements for the text
display. 

When I'm working with a text or a diagram, I don't even get to see the desktop
space, as the app's space is maximised. The OOO is multi-platform, I might work
as a guest, with a portable installation, etc.

Now, one actually must have legible text in Writer/Draw menus and dialogs, as
those are used frequently, as opposite to, say, web browser. (and no, countless
toolbars or whatever they are called now--stripes? ribbons? do not decisively
help here; I have many of those switched on, but only for addons; BTW, new LO
icons are rather indistinguishable, both from each other and from background)

Also, in OOO you might want to make the graphic parts of dialogs (say, color or
hatching samples) bigger, without tying those changes to the text size. Or you
might want different UI font face and/or size. And you might want to make those
changes just for the brief period, e.g., for the screen-cast, or when your eyes
are tired, or when you work in sub-optimal lighting conditions, etc.

Now, I'm a OOO user with about 20 years of experience, principally doing lots
of text with graphics. But I do not participate in the OOO development. Does my
opinion actually count?

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com

--- Comment #41 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 67372 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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Stefano  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67
   ||372

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--- Comment #40 from unresponsive  ---
The power of this scaling feature to me is that you can move between any
system/display and with one simple setting all your documents now display in a
standard way with all your other systems/displays.   The coding might have been
a compromise, but it’s worth a compromise.  Kudos to the guys that originally
saw the value of this and got it done and made it work so well for so long. 
Job well done.

Frustration makes the wine taste sweetest, the truth most bitter.

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--- Comment #39 from alister.h...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #36)
> (In reply to Spiros Georgaras from comment #35)
> > LO font size is currently smaller that my desktop font size (see ss)
> 
> That's clearly NOTOURBUG, please check your theme. I'm running LXQt with
> three places to tweak the font: qt5,qt4,LX, where qt4 is responsible for the
> kde4 variant of LibreOffice (we do not have a Qt5 binding yet).

So Libreoffice is supposed to follow the system font size properly? Is this
just with the "kde version"? I use the gtk2 "version". It does not work
properly - fonts in some places are a very different size to others. It is most
noticeable with a very low dpi and huge fonts (try setting your display dpi to
21 and your gtk font size to 52 to compensate). It almost seems like the dpi is
only being taken into account in some places but not others.
This has caused desperate people to resort to workarounds like this:
https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/71652/how-to-change-font-size-for-dialogs-not-just-menus/

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Jay Xu  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||mustan...@gmail.com

--- Comment #38 from Jay Xu  ---
Created attachment 137655
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137655=edit
ugly huge-font-ui on macos

Pls recover this feature~ You can find how ugly it is on my macos due to the
huge font size

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--- Comment #37 from Spiros Georgaras  ---
It looks like you are right!!!

and thank you for your reply; it pointed me to the right direction!!!

I installed lxappearance, but changing the font with it made no difference...
But then, when i changed the font form xfce native app, LO font changed too!!!

So, yes "That's clearly NOTOURBUG"

Sorry for the noise...

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--- Comment #36 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Spiros Georgaras from comment #35)
> LO font size is currently smaller that my desktop font size (see ss)

That's clearly NOTOURBUG, please check your theme. I'm running LXQt with three
places to tweak the font: qt5,qt4,LX, where qt4 is responsible for the kde4
variant of LibreOffice (we do not have a Qt5 binding yet).

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--- Comment #35 from Spiros Georgaras  ---
Hi guys,

I understand that this was causing problems, because of its poor
implementation, but...

Please, please, please, re-implement it!!!

LO font size is currently smaller that my desktop font size (see ss)

The font size difference is not that great, but it is enough to bother my aging
eyes :-(

I'm on a manjaro xfce linux box, running fresh

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Spiros Georgaras  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||s...@hellug.gr

--- Comment #34 from Spiros Georgaras  ---
Created attachment 134865
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=134865=edit
manjaro xfce linux font size difference

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--- Comment #33 from André Brait  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #32)
> (In reply to André Brait from comment #31)
> > My real issue is the icons, though. They look just broken.
> 
> Under Tools > Options > View you can control the icon size.

I've tried that. The icons just look broken in different sizes. I'll post a
screenshot as soon as I can get my hands on a live distro with 5.3.x. Kinda
like if they had been upscaled by a factor of 1.5 using nearest neighborhood
but in a wrong manner.

In 5.2, they look normal.

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--- Comment #32 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to André Brait from comment #31)
> My real issue is the icons, though. They look just broken.

Under Tools > Options > View you can control the icon size.

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--- Comment #31 from André Brait  ---
Adding to the cc list as well.

This annoys a lot. It's ok since I use Debian and we're still using the 5.2
branch, but when I use other distros that have the 5.3 branch it's unusable.

My real issue is the icons, though. They look just broken.

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Oliver Brinzing  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||oliver.brinz...@gmx.de

--- Comment #30 from Oliver Brinzing  ---
adding me cc

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--- Comment #29 from walttheboss  ---
I apologize profusely.  Sorry for triple post. My browser kept giving me an
nginx error so I thought this was not posting.

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--- Comment #25 from walttheboss  ---
I am a teacher of Computer applications.  We use a very large variety of
computers (desktops, laptops, virtual machines).  The ability for students to
work together is greatly enhanced by scaling.  They can see each others
formulas so much better. 

I am now forced to revert to 5.2 till this is solved.

PLEASE bring back the Scaling option in the UI as it is a fantastic feature.

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--- Comment #26 from walttheboss  ---
I am a teacher of Computer applications.  We use a very large variety of
computers (desktops, laptops, virtual machines).  The ability for students to
work together is greatly enhanced by scaling.  They can see each others
formulas so much better. 

I am now forced to revert to 5.2 till this is solved.

PLEASE bring back the Scaling option in the UI as it is a fantastic feature.

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--- Comment #28 from walttheboss  ---
I am a teacher of Computer applications.  We use a very large variety of
computers (desktops, laptops, virtual machines).  The ability for students to
work together is greatly enhanced by scaling.  They can see each others
formulas so much better. 

I am now forced to revert to 5.2 till this is solved.

PLEASE bring back the Scaling option in the UI as it is a fantastic feature.

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--- Comment #27 from walttheboss  ---
I am a teacher of Computer applications.  We use a very large variety of
computers (desktops, laptops, virtual machines).  The ability for students to
work together is greatly enhanced by scaling.  They can see each others
formulas so much better. 

I am now forced to revert to 5.2 till this is solved.

PLEASE bring back the Scaling option in the UI as it is a fantastic feature.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||van...@gmx.net

--- Comment #24 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 106521 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #23 from Matt K.  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #9)
> No, removing the scaling was correct as it was affecting implementation of
> HiDPI support.
> 
> Believe same effect can/should be achieved with better integration with
> assistive technology "magnifier" tools of the OS.  And that would probably
> be the correct way for the project to go especially as HiDPI gains
> prominence.  
> 
> Believe transient exposure to a magnification tool, rather than scaling the
> whole UI, would have more practical application.

It was affecting implementation of hidpi?  Why not leave it in until you can
actually support hidpi?  In v5.3, hidpi support is terrible and incompatible
with the built in scaling of Windows.  I relied on that setting to adjust the
UI of libreoffice because it's the only application I run that doesn't scale
nicely out of the box with the Windows scaling setting.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |

--- Comment #22 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #21)
> OK, we'll make this an enhancement of suitable priority.

Please also remove needsUXEval when you think it's done. 

Besides the doubted use case it's hard to believe that such a feature
outperforms what the OS/DE can do, across various platforms. Better we make
sure the OS features work well if there is no problem with Word on Windows but
LibreOffice.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |low
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

--- Comment #21 from V Stuart Foote  ---
OK, we'll make this an enhancement of suitable priority.

If a dev wants to pick it up--IMHO it is worth doing, but not at the expense of
other more pressing facets of the GUI for HiDPI desktops and mobile devices.
Expect doing this correctly to reach all elements of the UI could be quite
challenging.

But this might provide framework for implementing other useful scaling and zoom
features, for example bug 105610.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #20 from LibreTraining  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #17)
> Magnifying, zooming and font scaling is up to the OS/DE. What other major
> program provides such a feature?


Operating system global scaling is rarely a viable option because it has
unintended or bad results on too many applications. Applications like Microsoft
Word work well because they are created by the same developer and therefore
well integrated with the OS zoom features. Other applications, not so much.
And often users don't want to scale everything in the OS (like me).

First applications that came to mind because I use them both ...

Adobe InDesign - UI Scaling setting - allows user to set the interface at 100%,
150%, or 200%.
This enables their users to make the UI scale choice based on the size and DPI
of their own display.
Same with other Adobe products.

Vivaldi browser (based on Chrome) - User Interface Zoom setting - scale
anywhere between 50% to 200% in 5% increments.

Many applications provide 3 sizes of icons - Inkscape, AutoCAD, Solidworks,
etc.


With all the different devices now, the ability for users to set the scaling
for the interface would seem to be a requirement.

While the current menu scaling in v5.2 may not be optimal, it is better than
nothing.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #19 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Again, it was removed because it was poorly implemented in source/UI and was
interfering with implementation of support for HiDPI.

Yes it could possibly be "restored", but better to redesign and implement a
solution that is less of a patchwork and supportable with emerging graphics.

@Caolan, Kendy?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #18 from brucehohl  ---
> What other major program provides such a feature?
Exactly!!
This is a great feature not commonly found in other office software.  It allows
the flexibility to configure the LO UI text independently of the OS/DE text
which might be desired for any number of reasons. Choice is good. Among the key
reasons I use Calc over Excel is that Calc offers a higher level of UI options
and easily available customization.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #17 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Magnifying, zooming and font scaling is up to the OS/DE. What other major
program provides such a feature?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

brucehohl  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bruceh...@gmail.com

--- Comment #16 from brucehohl  ---
Just thought I might chime-in on this as I actually use this feature.

I think that the UI scaling feature remains relevant with the types of monitors
in use today.  According to
http://www.eizo.com/library/basics/pixel_density_4k/ HiDPI displays for
computers have been offered since 2014 so even if such displays render this
feature obsolete it will years before such displays are in the majority.  

With the average monitor in service today the various screen magnifying tools
can produce mixed results where some things improve but others degrade.  On the
other hand, the LO UI scaling feature and zoom feature work very well.  I even
reported  bug 101371 related to this mainly because I think this is a quality
feature worthy of continuation and maintenance at least until the next
generation of display technology becomes common.

Also, ironically, 5.3 has added an scaling option for the sidebar icons. 
Surely, if scaling for that UI component is important than it must also be
important for the text menus. Text menus are important as they provide a level
of program explore-ability "in plain English (or other language)" not possible
with unfamiliar icons.  I beg for a reprieve for this feature :)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #15 from LibreTraining  ---
I was using this to increase the font size to make screenshots easier to read.
Try documenting the navigator with any clarity with that tiny type.

Upscaling a screenshot is not an option as it even further reduces the quality
(which is already bad enough).

My vote is bring it back.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #14 from kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #13)
> From UX perspective, I do not see requirement to restore this.

from usability for average users I see requirement to restore this.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

--- Comment #13 from V Stuart Foote  ---
>From UX perspective, I do not see requirement to restore this.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #12 from Timur  ---
According to what Stuart wrote, this looks like WontFix?
There should be either that, either decision how to resolve

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #11 from thack...@nexgo.de ---
Hello Regina, *,
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #6)
> The problem still exists in Version: 5.3.0.0.alpha1+
> Build ID: 8a796410ec8f440b4163b15b928347c499da7a8f
> CPU Threads: 4; OS Version: Windows 6.1; UI Render: default; 
> TinderBox: Win-x86@42, Branch:master, Time: 2016-10-20_23:07:21
> Locale: de-DE (de_DE); Calc: group
> 
> Hello Thomas, are you sure? This is not about icon size, but about the font
> size of the menus.

sorry, you are right. Forget my comment. It seems I was looking for the wrong
option ... :(
Sorry for the inconvenience
Thomas.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

--- Comment #10 from kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #9)
> No, removing the scaling was correct as it was affecting implementation of
> HiDPI support.
> 
> Believe same effect can/should be achieved with better integration with
> assistive technology "magnifier" tools of the OS.  And that would probably
> be the correct way for the project to go especially as HiDPI gains
> prominence.  
> 
> Believe transient exposure to a magnification tool, rather than scaling the
> whole UI, would have more practical application.

you offer me to buy a new monitor with HiDPI? i don't have a lot of money for
this.
There are a lot of people with bad vision, who use scaling of GUI. They all
must to save up for the a new monitor?
you, before delete of option for implementation of HiDPI support, make first
good customization of GUI.
Or we create LibreOffice not for users, and for developers?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 101646] UI option "Scaling" was removed

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101646

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|UI option "Scaling" is  |UI option "Scaling" was
   |missing |removed

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