Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Fwd: [tdf-announce] The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 3.6 with a wealth of new features and improvements
Hi there, On Mon, 2012-08-13 at 09:38 -0700, bfo wrote: Unfortunately those graphs are discouraging in many ways. Especially if one thinks about upgrading LO... Sure - of course I want to get on people's case ;-) we don't show any visibility of the overall number of non-regression bugs that were fixed (introducing a few regressions) and so forth: so it's not a hyper-balanced view. We also count some classes of regression bug (crashers) twice to try to increase focus etc. ;-) We (the ESC) made a strategic decision to take some regressions there - in order to have much greater sharing of the filter code, such that we have less code, and hence our bug fixes have more impact across all Microsoft import and export filters. Does QA OKeyed this decision? What QA actions were taken before such move? QA was involved in the ESC call that made the decision here. Regression tests prepared? Any tests in general? Manual tests? Of course the filters are tested; there were -zero- unit tests for the RTF filter before we started, it is now perhaps -the- most unit tested filter that there is - every bug fix Miklos makes has a nice unit test: better - since the code is shared, that is unit testing a big chunk of the DOCX and perhaps DOC filtering as well. There is testing before committing. Tests as regression tests Tests as in running the code to check that it continues to work - and fixes the bug; done by the developer. Also unit tests are run wherever there are any, if the developer doesn't run them some tinderboxes run the whole test suite as they build. We need to continue to grow that test suite of course. One strategic thing we -badly- need is the ability to get stack traces with full symbols out of QA. With that information we can double or better the productivity of bug fixing - without it we are half-blind. I am starting to doubt that it helps. I recently delivered Windows bt to most crash bugs I could find. Prepared wiki page about it. Asked for review of that page. Wow - I didn't hear about that; can you give me a few links ? did you use a Windows build with debugging symbols (if not the traces would be next-to-useless sadly). Silence. Few of the bugs were fixed, without any comment if my bt was useful. Will keep this work, but I don't see that bugs with bts are fixed quicker. Well; crasher bugs that are windows specific are -incredibly- faster to fix with a good stack trace with symbols. I think I put few cents for this myself on ML and trying to gather nice resources in bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50350. Someone is working on it? Great. It is still UNCONFIRMED... I've assigned it to Fridrich; I agree it is a -really- important task to get this done. Unfortunately there are problems, the Windows symbol server is IIRC some hideous tangled Microsoft proprietary product that requires a Windows server to push a few binary files (que?). This complicates matters. I would be happy if I achieve the change in base workflow - new feature in the codebase? Splendid! But unit tests, testcases and manual testing done before commiting. QA OKeyed the feature? Then you can commit. Stopping people committing until you are happy is unlikely to help - we need a socially acceptable way of improving quality: the best way we've come up with so far is small, fast, reliable, run-all-the-time unit tests that are in-tree. Focusing exclusively on bugs in one of next release (be it 3.7 or 3.8) would be a great idea, as please remember - a feature is a no go, when there are still 123bugs (123bugs as one, two, three actions needed to get LO crash). Is there a good list of such bugs ? AFAICS we need a good way to get nice work (like your bugs with backtraces) communicated to development in such a way that they notice do something about it :-) Not sure how to do that - bloating the MAB list is prolly not it though - creative ideas appreciated. One thing I'd like to do is make a developers' portal - we can use as a homepage, with easy-to-use boxes to lookup bug numbers, and interesting reports on the page: that might be rather a good way of advertising the latest problems :-) ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Fwd: [tdf-announce] The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 3.6 with a wealth of new features and improvements
On Mon, 2012-08-13 at 19:33 +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: I can assure you they are. The best way to get a bug solved is: ... Once you are there, it is orders of magnitude easier to go ahead with the bug. Sure - the problem is then for developers to sift out these bugs where a ton of good QA work has been done for them from the larger mass of bugs where a ton of manual work is required first IMHO etc. :-) It must be de-motivating to do a load of work making the bug easier to fix, and then still no-one look at it :-) ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Fwd: [tdf-announce] The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 3.6 with a wealth of new features and improvements
Michael Meeks-2 wrote Of course the filters are tested; there were -zero- unit tests for the RTF filter before we started, it is now perhaps -the- most unit tested filter that there is - every bug fix Miklos makes has a nice unit test: better - since the code is shared, that is unit testing a big chunk of the DOCX and perhaps DOC filtering as well. Hi! I noticed that, as I am forced to watch commits to know what is going on in the projects. Good work, should be a part of commit workflow, but IMHO such tests should be placed in the code before importing it to stable branch as a general rule and good coding practice. Michael Meeks-2 wrote Wow - I didn't hear about that; can you give me a few links ? did you use a Windows build with debugging symbols (if not the traces would be next-to-useless sadly). Sure. BTW: if you can make that this page will get a professional review - that would be great. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/How_to_get_a_backtrace_with_WinDbg Michael Meeks-2 wrote Unfortunately there are problems, the Windows symbol server is IIRC some hideous tangled Microsoft proprietary product that requires a Windows server to push a few binary files (que?). This complicates matters. As you can read in the bug resources I gathered Mozilla guys did it, along with Bug reporting stuff. Whoever is working on it can ask those friedly people for help. One should not reinvent the wheel again and again... Michael Meeks-2 wrote Is there a good list of such bugs ? AFAICS we need a good way to get nice work (like your bugs with backtraces) communicated to development in such a way that they notice do something about it :-) Not sure how to do that - bloating the MAB list is prolly not it though - creative ideas appreciated. We should be using Bugzilla and its features - keywords, shared searches, tags, custom fields, flags (per component maybe). Michael Meeks-2 wrote One thing I'd like to do is make a developers' portal - we can use as a homepage, with easy-to-use boxes to lookup bug numbers, and interesting reports on the page: that might be rather a good way of advertising the latest problems :-) There is one already - Bugzilla. I think devs should be teached how to use Bugzilla more. It is a monster at first sight, but it can be your best pet after a while. Creating multiple resources, like devs portals, special wiki pages etc. won't help. Best regards. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-Fwd-tdf-announce-The-Document-Foundation-announces-LibreOffice-3-6-with-a-wealth-of-ns-tp4000177p4001184.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi Yifan, On 13/08/2012 12:08, Yifan Jiang wrote: Hi Sophie, On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:14:34AM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: Hi all, Yifan, So after a long time (sorry for this long absence), I would like to come back to Moztrap and try to help to test it. Welcome back :) Please let me know if you got problem of registration. My first question, the most important for us, is there now a possibility of localization for : - the tests - the environment From what I see on the todo list Yifan has written long ago the point : 5. Look into i18n and l10n of Moztrap, we need translation system for both test cases and Moztrap UI. Does it mean that it's possible, or does it mean it's not yet possible or that we need to find/define a translation process? I ever had a talk with the Moztrap developers and it seems neither of the localization plans has been on the rador yet :( It needs some deep hacking of the code if we want to do that particularly to Libreoffice. So it is not easy to handle the localization in Moztrap yet. One way to workaround is to mix localized wording of test cases into the existing English ones, as what we did for Litmus. But it is rather time consuming to translate and maintain, because Moztrap split test cases into steps. With this method, we need to *manually* maintain translation for each test steps and their corresponding expected results. Besides, for some of the test cases, localized version might not share exact steps with the English version. So I did not put anything localized to the Moztrap test case base yet. I feel it is possibly better to maintain translation version of test cases in a different data set, either by hacking the existing Moztrap database or putting the translation for test cases to somewhere else like wiki, then manually put the link back to Moztrap original English test case. Any way, we currently really need more people to get involved, try Moztrap, make contribution and share ideas :) One question is can we termporarily survive with pure English wording test cases, though they are allowed to choose running under any localizations? I didn't replied yesterday because I wanted to think more about it. I feel that investing work (and you already have invested a good amount of work on it) in a tool dedicated to tests for average users in the language communities that is not localizable (or with lot of difficulties) is a waste of time. We will miss our goal and take the risk to provide one more tool (after Litmus) that is not suitable to the people wanting to contribute and will discourage them. My second question: is there a possibility to store sample documents on Moztrap. Yes, one of the moztrap's nice feature is attachement support per test case :) that's a good point, but unfortunately less important that localization. Thanks for your quick answer, I will continue to seek a solution for these manual tests in all languages. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Comment Spamming
@ll I am very sorry for the comment spamming, which goes on currently. This was caused by an app close to a crash here. I am very sorry for that. Hopefully it finally helps to clean out bfo. __ Florian Reisinger Von meinem iPad gesendet Sent via iPad ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Would you be so nice and forward this to some mailinglists...
Dear developers / contributors of LibreOffice! Todays cleanup of bugzilla went quite wrong. The same type of message got sent to a lot of you (either as reporter or CC) to you. I really beg your pardon. For your underatanding: I prepared to send one (1) message, but due to a browser, which hang itself up several times, you got 1-4 messages per bug. I am really very sorry for that and I hope you didn't uncced any of these bugs. For more info, please write me a PM PS: the original mail was not sent to a dev-ML would someone please forward it - thanks.. Yours Florian PS2: I attached 899 bugs, 99% would not be helpful of them and I am in CC of every single of them. So please don't write at me if you get too many mails. IMHO this was not a one-timer, but next time there will only be 50 bugs to change. I hope you understand why this was basically necessary... ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Comment Spamming
Hi all, as you saw today Florian closed lots of NEEDINFO bugs. Can some of you please use a Query Feed like https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?field0-0-0=days_elapsedlist_id=106657longdesc=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.documentfoundation.org%2FQA%2FNeedinfoClosure%23Statementlongdesc_type=substringproduct=LibreOfficequery_format=advancedresolution=---value0-0-0=1title=Bug%20Listctype=atom to observe what Bugs will be reopened and help to contribute a really quick answer? Thank you and best regards Rainer ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Bug Closing Automation - Apology
Hi All, First off, sorry that I'm starting a new thread, I'm not sure how to reply to something from the digest in gmail. A couple days ago there was a very brief discussion about NEEDINFO and that it wasn't very useful to have the NEEDINFO status sit for weeks or months on end if the users weren't responding to our requests for more information. I jumped the gun and asked if there was a way to automate closing these bugs if they were open for some period of time, another user volunteered to do this and went ahead and did it. I take full responsibility for the ill feelings, I should have waited longer for more input and thought about it more clearly before requesting if someone had the ability to automatically close these bugs. It has pissed off quite a few people, I take the blame, please direct your irritation my way and not at Florian or any other member of the QA team. Best wishes to everyone, Joel ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
