Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi. tl;dr, but IMHO ideal localized MozTrap system could be designed this way: Tests should be written using some kind of special text editor with autocomplete, in generic language (or based on English) using UI strings and then those strings substituted to the language of choice (not only French). The framework should be using .po files only. How to achieve this? I don't know. Maybe integrate with Pootle server or sync with LO sources? This would allow to present UI strings in any language supported by LibreOffice. All this seems like good candidate for GSOC project... My 2 eurocents. Best regards. P.S. Having multilanguage MozTrap can lead us to multilanguage reports in Bugzilla... We do not want multilanguage Bugzilla, don't we? I already have to use translator services in reports submitted by French or Spanish people. Good to learn new languages, but... you know... time consuming while bugs triage. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-Moztrap-some-questions-tp4000922p4001926.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] [ANN] LibreOffice 3.6.1 RC1 available
Dear Community, The Document Foundation is happy to announce the first release candidate of LibreOffice 3.6.1. The upcoming 3.6.1 will be the second in a series of frequent bugfix releases for our 3.6 code line. Please be aware that LibreOffice 3.6.1 RC1 is not yet ready for production use, you should continue to use LibreOffice 3.5.6 or 3.6.0 for that. The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA builds download page at http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/ Should you find bugs, please report them to the FreeDesktop Bugzilla: https://bugs.freedesktop.org A good way to assess the beta quality is to run some specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test (and the announcement mail: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-December/022464.html) For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can e.g. contribute code: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/developers/ translate LibreOffice to your language: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translation_for_3.6 or help with funding our operations: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/donate/ A list of known issues and fixed bugs with 3.6.1 RC1 is available from our wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/3.6.1/RC1 Please find the list of changes here: http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/src/commit-log-libreoffice-3-6-1-release-3.6.1.1.log Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have been possible without your help. Yours, The Document Foundation Board of Directors -- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender) Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...
Hi, some additions: On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 04:36:17PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote: > * bugzilla / gerrit integration (Bjoern) > + concern about getting spammed a lot. > + if only one mail if there is a patch at all, it doesn't hurt too much > + changing it is an easy-hack Not changing -- creating. There is currently no gerrit-integration on bugzilla. (gerrit integrated bugzilla quite nicely already.) > + want a hard-hacks query - with five hits We can give that a try, but thinking about it that is really easy abused when just triggering on a whiteboard keyword (as in: people adding it to their pet peeve bugs). If that happens, handing over a query with 5 hardcoded bug numbers via mail should be safe and simple. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi, On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:35:49PM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote: > On one side, I like the idea of automatic translations. Though, I am > afraid that we will need real localizations support in Moztrap anyway > because: > > + better translations quality; tests need to be understandable > even for beginners > + language dependent tests; they can't be translated directly > + support more languages; Google is powerful but the translator > supports less localizations than LO; also I am not sure of the > quality of each language; I guess that some languages are > easier to translate automatically than others > > BTW: I think that there will be similar problems with automatic > translations and real translations. You will need to modify UI and touch > similar piece of code for both of them. > > I would prefer to spend resources on real localization than on the > automatic translation. > > Note that we have many active translators. We currently do not have > enough hackers that would allow them to translate Moztrap. Still the timing is critical here -- blocking on translations in the beta-frenzy is not an option and the time windos is rather tight. What could be done though is doing both: Using manual translation and priming it with an automatic translation that than can be improved upon by an manual one. However even then there are lots of issues with translations: The (english) source text might change (because of an UI cleanup), making the localized version needing an update (or at least an 'this is outdated' marker). That was one of the reasons, why I like and suggested automatic translation as it changes with the source text. Doing manual translations, you will need the source and the translations text to be under some form of version control. Possible, but a lot of work. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Online update testing
Hi Klaus-Juergen, all, I'd like to ask you test the online update a bit. I had to do some larger changes in order to be able to update the 3.5 line to 3.5.6, so now it explicitly preselects 3.5.6 for you, when you try to update from an older version. The 3.6 update (from the previous RC's, for example) should lead you to the generic download page. Please let me know should you find any trouble :-) Thank you, Kendy ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Yi Fan Jiang píše v Čt 16. 08. 2012 v 01:31 -0600: > It actually is a brilliant idea to make all the stuff automatically synced, > but in > practice it needs a lot of time to investigate and manual interference seems > inevitable. I am sharing my concern that we need to make Moztrap *fastly* > adapted to all QA people with very limited resource. And for sure we should > consider how the test case should currently organized for migrating to a > future > better solution (how automation translation plays a role here could be one > of the options). > > What enlightens me that it should make sense to leverage automation > translation technique in Moztrap UI translation :) On one side, I like the idea of automatic translations. Though, I am afraid that we will need real localizations support in Moztrap anyway because: + better translations quality; tests need to be understandable even for beginners + language dependent tests; they can't be translated directly + support more languages; Google is powerful but the translator supports less localizations than LO; also I am not sure of the quality of each language; I guess that some languages are easier to translate automatically than others BTW: I think that there will be similar problems with automatic translations and real translations. You will need to modify UI and touch similar piece of code for both of them. I would prefer to spend resources on real localization than on the automatic translation. Note that we have many active translators. We currently do not have enough hackers that would allow them to translate Moztrap. > For those language dependent test cases (only makes sense to test in French > locale for example), it makes sense to write in native language only. While > an > English translation for it is still *better-to-have* since we want to share > information in the community. At least English speaking people could > understand what has been tested when reviewing and reusing the test. Also I think that many language dependent tests will have the same principle and number of steps. For example, spell checking is tested the same way in all localizations. You just need to use another test text and expect another broken words, another suggested replacements, ... > In either of the case, it will not seem to break a workaround like: > > http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/runtests/run/21/env/633/ + advantages: + compact; do not need to scroll that much + disadvantages: + steps and expected results are far from each other; it is harder so see how exactly they are connected A solution would be to use another syntax, e.g. When in English 1. launch Libreoffice Base >> the database application appears, the database wizard opens 2. check [Create a database] then click on Next button. >> the dialog for "save and proceed" appears 3. check [Yes, register the database for me] and [Open the database for edition] and click on Finish >> a file save dialog appear 4. enter a name for the database in the dialog box and click OK >> a new database can be created successfully When in French 1. ... >> ... 2. ... > http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/runtests/run/23/env/634/ + advantages: + step and result is clearly connected; this connection is enforced by UI when creating the test + follows the current design => it is more intuitive when creating the test case; also it should be easier to switch to real localization once implemented + disadvantages: + harder to find your localization for each step Well, the brain automatically finds some known words. Also I think that we will get only very few localizations in the beginning; I hope that we will get real localizations support before it gets unreadable. Best Regards, Petr ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] [ANN] LibreOffice 3.6.1.1 test builds available
Hi *, for the upcoming new version 3.6.1, the RC1 builds now start to be available on pre-releases. This build is slated to be first release candidate build on the way towards 3.6.0, please refer to our release plan timings here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#3.6_release Builds are now being uploaded to a public (but non-mirrored - so don't spread news too widely!) place, as soon as they're available. Grab them here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/ If you've a bit of time, please give them a try & report *critical* bugs not yet in bugzilla here, so we can incorporate them into the release notes. Please note that it takes approximately 24 hours to populate the mirrors, so that's about the time we have to collect feedback. NOTE: This build is in a release configuration and _will_ replace your existing LibreOffice install on Windows. The list of fixed bugs relative to 3.6.0 RC3 is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/bugfixes-libreoffice-3-6-1-release-3.6.1.1.log So playing with the areas touched there also greatly appreciated - and validation that those bugs are really fixed. Thanks a lot for your help, Petr ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi all, Thanks all your concern of future Moztrap! On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 08:00:37PM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote: > Sophie Gautier píše v St 15. 08. 2012 v 14:29 +0200: > > Hi Bjoern, > > On 15/08/2012 13:00, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: > > > I fear manually translated testcases are doomed to fail as they will > > > always be > > > outdated/incomplete during the timeframe that matters. Using automatic > > > translation (and tweaking the original so it comes out understandable) > > > might > > > work though. Automatic translation is by now mostly only a problem, if > > > you dont > > > control the source. > > > > Imho, that won't work for two reasons: > > - behavior is not the same in every language and testing may differ/be > > adapted depending on the local Hi Bjoern, It actually is a brilliant idea to make all the stuff automatically synced, but in practice it needs a lot of time to investigate and manual interference seems inevitable. I am sharing my concern that we need to make Moztrap *fastly* adapted to all QA people with very limited resource. And for sure we should consider how the test case should currently organized for migrating to a future better solution (how automation translation plays a role here could be one of the options). What enlightens me that it should make sense to leverage automation translation technique in Moztrap UI translation :) > We had this discussion on Litmus times. We need to split the test cases > into language independent and language specific groups. I think that > most functionality is language independent and thus simple translation > of the test case should be enough. > > The few language-specific test cases might need special handling. Hi All, Yes, this was the assumption. For a language independent case, I tend to believe English version of it is *must-to-have*, and all direct translation of test cases in different languages is *prefer-to-have*. For those language dependent test cases (only makes sense to test in French locale for example), it makes sense to write in native language only. While an English translation for it is still *better-to-have* since we want to share information in the community. At least English speaking people could understand what has been tested when reviewing and reusing the test. In either of the case, it will not seem to break a workaround like: http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/runtests/run/21/env/633/ or http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/runtests/run/23/env/634/ Just wonder how do them look like to you? > I think that we have to extend Moztrap to translate test cases and UI > sooner or later. We need to find a temporary solution that will allow > testers to work with it already now and allow to migrate the test cases > to the translated framework later easily. > > > - UI strings are not the same due to localization, and we are also QAing > > our l10n when we do those tests in our language > > I also think that we will get better results with our own localization. > Most test cases should stay the same between few releases. I think that > we could survive one or two years with inline translations. I hope that > we could get real localization support within that timeframe. I am for it. > We are going to pay some external developers to improve bugzilla this > year. I would imagine that we could get some money to improve Moztrap > next year if we were not able to do it using our resources. This is cheerful :) -- Yifan Jiang Libreoffice / SuSE Contact: yifan - irc.freenode.net/libreoffice = http://www.libreoffice.org/ http://www.documentfoundation.org/ ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
