Help us spread software freedom

[Greg Farough]

Hi, all,

We've launched our fall fundraiser today, and will have some surprises
to announce in the coming weeks. We hope that you'll spread the
message and help us lead other people to software freedom by the time
it ends on December 31. And if you're an associate member, please keep
an eye out for the bulletin!

If you're on social media, we'd appreciate your posting the link below
under that network's #userfreedom hashtag.



-g

-- 
Greg Farough // Campaigns Manager
Free Software Foundation

Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: https://my.fsf.org


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Re: federated free software movement

[Jean Louis]

* Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss  
[2021-11-13 17:31]:
>What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
>group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
>federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
>on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting
>infrastructure?

Great idea!



Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
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In support of Richard M. Stallman
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federated free software movement

[Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss]

   What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
   group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
   federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
   on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?

   I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
   [1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

   And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

   However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

   I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
   I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.

References

   1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
   2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
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Re: federated free software movement

[Jean Louis]

* Arthur Torrey  [2021-11-14 22:17]:
> As such, coming at folks w/ an attitude of 'proprietary is evil and
> only Free solutions are acceptable' is not going to win friends...
> We need to be willing to say that partially free / open is better
> than totally locked down, even if it needs proprietary tools...

When somebody tells you "proprietary is evil" that is personal
choice. My friends are free to tell me "proprietary is best", and they
remain my friends. That I consider conversation. 

Which pair of underwear they wear, or if they wear at all, is their
personal choice.

On other hand, I have personal practical experiences where I didd win
friends, even money because of that motto "proprietary is evil, free
software is only acceptable". True. So much good time we have spent
together. 

In the free software movement free software was always supported be it
partially or fully. Most of the time of the GNU history there was
partially free software until GNU/Linux distributions came, and long
thereafter those distributions are still partially free, including
today. 

That allows many choices for many people.

But you can't expect from LibrePlanet to endorse proprietary software
in order to "win friends" as it contradiction to the purposes of
LibrePlanet. 

LibrePlanet is not to endorse partially free operating systems. Those
are personal choices.



Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
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Re: federated free software movement

[vidak]

On 2021-11-14 10:03, Arthur Torrey wrote:
> I think that this would be a really good idea, as I see a great deal
> of overlap between the motivations and ideals of the groups...  It
> might also be worth reaching out to the 'maker' world as well since it
> also has a lot of overlap  I don't do Bird-noises or Mastodon, but
> think it is a good idea in principle.

I have been thinking for some time on trying to revive a 'flagship' Free
Software federated social media. I hate the concept of 'social media'
with all the attention-economy aspects that it brings with it. But, I
think ActivityPub has succeeded as the protocol of choice for federated
online microblogging.

Perhaps this could broaden even further into a reconceptualisation of a
'Free hypertext', but I think that's beyond the scope of this
discussion.
 
> I think the only thing that might be an issue where the groups might
> need to have a significant level of willingness to compromise is on
> the 'purity requirements' (for lack of a better term)  I.e. both the
> OSHW and R2R folks don't necessarily have big issues w/ using
> proprietary software / binary blobs if it makes it possible to
> accomplish their ends of making cool objects (i.e. a gizmo that is
> based on a RasPI) or fixing a device (i.e using a Windows based
> proprietary programming tool)...  So while pointing out how Free
> software might make it easier to make / fix things, the FLOSS
> enthusiasts would need to not be hostile to the idea using software
> that we don't approve of...  This is sort of like my comment that the
> RYF cert would be more popular / desirable if it didn't prohibit
> mentioning compatibility w/ other non-free O/S's...

Personally, the issue isn't with 'purity', it's with 'compromise'.
Purity doesn't exclude variety, and it certainly doesn't indicate
group-think, to my mind. I don't even phrase the concept of only using
Free software as one of being 'pure'--when there are many options and
solutions that are already 'Free', why can't you always choose the right
choice?

> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 14:29:30 +
> From: Leah Rowe 
> To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> Subject: federated free software movement
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> 
> What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair 
> group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via 
> federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis on 
> teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?
>  

I'd definitely be down to help do some leg-work on this. I'd like to
revive total 'Free software' solutions, even put some development, into,
say, GNU Social?

> --
> Arthur Torrey - 
> ---
> 
> ___
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Re: federated free software movement

[Jean Louis]

* Arthur Torrey  [2021-11-14 22:17]:
> As I said, I was only using 'purity' for lack of a better term...
> One of the issues that I see is that there isn't always a Free (as
> in source code, might or might not be free as in beer) solution, or
> one that doesn't involve significant sacrifices...  

It is obviously personality that decides. 

You see it that way, I see it slightly different.

I cannot relate to "significant sacrifices" experience.

Since 1999 I am user of GNU/Linux and since then I feel liberated.

> As one example we know there is a lot of PC hardware that either
> only works w/ binary blobs, or where the Free drivers don't work as
> well as the non-free ones...  Or hardware like the RasPi that is
> nominally open, but needs blobs for some of it's functions.

That is why I make choices of hardware before software. Not other way
around.

> The programming software for my power chair (which is bootleg /
> pirated BTW) only runs on a Windows box, and is closed source

Pirate it better and install GNU/Linux ‍☠️

Nobody says "use only free software" and I did not see any hostility
in GNU or in free software movements, I actually have not see in
mailing list participation that kind of attitude towards people who
use proprietary software.

That is personal choice.

You find needs for it, and compromise with it, or call it how you
wish, you are using it.

I am not using proprietary software except the BIOS that I cannot
easily replace myself. 

Dark Wader had doubts too. 

It is just personal choice.





Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

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Re: federated free software movement

[Miles Fidelman]

Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?

I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
[1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.


Personally, I think the notion of a "movement" is just silly.  We're not 
talking about political campaign, or even legislative initiatives.


The goal is to write software that does useful things, and adheres to 
basic principles of openness - notably as enshrined in various licenses 
- and make it widely available.  (From a user point of view, the goal is 
to have such software available.)  None of this has anything to do with 
being a "movement."


Now... some kind of combined marketing program might make some sense.  
Building on things like the FSF/Gnu software list, opensource.com, and 
such.  As well as lining up behind specific legislative initiatives, 
like right-to-repair. And then there's supporting common-use facilities 
- like the OSU OSL.


Sounds to me that you're just trying to make some work, and find some 
funding, for a bunch of staff weenies.


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown


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Re: federated free software movement

[Jacob Hrbek]

I love the idea and I would like to join the effort as I criticize the actions 
taken by FSF in relation to libre hardware (endorsements of proprietary in 
Respect your Freedom campaign and endorsement of librem devices that seems to 
have a built-in backdoor), but I am not sure whether I trust OSHW yet.

In terms of provided services I am working on push based development through a 
public repository integrated in GNU guile for guix and I am willing to share my 
experience with it.
So the theory is user just forking the repo and running a command to deploy it 
on supported hosting or selfhost.

About liberation of proprietary hardware I have project in work that reverse 
engineers e.g. GPU PCBs so that users can just replace components from one PCB 
to another, but I am stuck at handling legality of it and will probably need a 
precision CNC mill with a high resolution imaging for it. https://git 
dotya.ml/TechnicalExorcist

P.S. if you know of any libre hardware phone that gives me the ECAD files and 
is usable then please let me know.

Sent from ProtonMail mobile



\ Original Message 
On Nov 13, 2021, 15:29, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss < 
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
> group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
> federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis on
> teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?
>
> I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
> https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
>
> And on Mastodon. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
>
> However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.
>
> I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus, I
> intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.
>
>
> What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
> group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
> federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
> on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?
>
> I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
> \[1\]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
>
> And on Mastodon. \[2\]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
>
> However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.
>
> I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
> I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.
>
> References
>
> 1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
> 2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>

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Re: Linux distro chooser

[vidak]

=> distro picker always points to GNU Guix (:

On 2021-10-29 12:48, Jean Louis wrote:

> stuff

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Re: federated free software movement

[Lohan G]

On 11/13/21 7:59 PM, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?



This is an excellent idea! Many will benefit from learning these things 
and being part of such a group or a federation of groups/individuals. 
There is a gap to be bridged between the availability of free software, 
oshw and being able to self-host, achieving full autonomy.


I also think that this already implies or calls for a combination of 
software freedom and networking freedom. This is very important in the 
present context.


I just responded to this on Mastodon. I wanted to reiterate it here too.

Best,
Lohan G


I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
[1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.

References

1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137


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Re: federated free software movement

[Robert Read]

   I think such an organization that could provide a powerful voice tying
   together free-libre open source hardware and right-to-repair would be
   valuable. I don't know if existing organizations are covering that
   ground or not.

   On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 8:29 AM Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
   <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote:

What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to
 Repair
group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion
 via
federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an
 emphasis
on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting
 infrastructure?
I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
[1][2]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
And on Mastodon.
 [2][3]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.
I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real.
 Plus,
I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new
 initiative.
 References
1. [4]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
2. [5]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
 ___
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 [6]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
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 s

   --

   Robert L. Read, PhD
   Twitter: @RobertLeeRead @pubinvention
   Public Invention: [8]https://www.pubinv.org
   Join Our Mailing list: [9]pub...@googlegroups.com
   YouTube: [10]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJQg_dkDY3KTP1ybugYwReg
   Medium: [11]https://medium.com/@RobertLeeRead

References

   1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   2. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
   3. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
   4. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
   5. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137
   6. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   7. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   8. https://www.pubinv.org/
   9. mailto:pub...@googlegroups.com
  10. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJQg_dkDY3KTP1ybugYwReg
  11. https://medium.com/@RobertLeeRead
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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 14/11/2021 20:27, Thomas Lord wrote:


I think the FSF should have gone in this direction a long
time ago.

I think it is a very good idea to add to what you described:

a. Distributed decentralized business models that are NOT
    "getting paid to program" or "getting paid to contribute
    to a software development project".

b. Those business models aimed at spreading the personal
    use of free software, and enjoyment of software freedom,
    by people who don't program or who don't identify
    as programmers

c. That includes both service and HW provisioning components.

d. These businesses should be designed to keep product prices
    low, to increase accessibility -- yet include enough of a
    human element to be hard to reproduce at large scale.

e. The businesses should achieve real economies of scale through ...
    federation.

Trivial boring example: Entry level desktops, preloaded, with
support -- and a federation of those businesses that cooperates
freely to maintain the shared distribution they use.

Of course, that kind of thing can be infinitely specialized -- e.g.
a federation of small businesses that provide DAWs (music production
and performance software).

The idea is to make enough money to live comfortably without
trying to hoard software, supporting a lifestyle of cooperating
on maintaining and extending that software freely.

-t

+1

We could add to this that the environmental impact is that we also get 
to use older hardware longer,   I think there is some research somewhere 
on the cost making new laptops vs using older laptops for longer until 
they just stop working.


I know there are movements such as free cycle that that take hardware 
and recycle it,   this also creates jobs etc.



Paul


What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
   group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
   federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
   on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting 
infrastructure?


   I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
   [1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

   And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

   However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

   I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
   I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.

References

   1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
   2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

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--
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