Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
Hi Ali, I'm sighted and have plenty of trouble interacting with the world through my computer. I can't imagine how I would manage to even get as far as going through all the steps to convert pdfs to text if I were blind. My hat is off to you. As a sighted user trying to do my income taxes on Linux in Canada, I cannot rely on the etext forms for the blind to be up to date. Similar to you, I convert the PDF tax forms to text. This year I have written a "text spreadsheet" calculator using awk, tsort and bc/calc that allows me to mark up the calculations on the forms and then compute the dependencies, generate calculations and generate the results as an output text file. I note the following limitations of converting PDF to text: 1/ I'm unable to convert XFA PDFs to text (fortunately only Ontario provincial forms, not federal income tax forms so far) 2/ The fine points of the PDF layout seem to get mangled. For example the Canadian tax forms use indentation to show nested calculations and I find that harder to see on the text version of the PDF. In general the etext versions of the tax forms are more sequential, which is easier for me as a sighted user to program against. 3/ Any calculations built into the PDF are lost. I think my "text spreadsheet" demonstrates that it is perfectly possible to mark up calculation steps on text forms sufficiently precisely to allow programs to calculate them. I would think it should be possible to generate a common specification for embedding calculations into text files, allowing programs to be written for this. I would be interested to know whether it might also be of interest to blind users. Seems to me that the blind shouldn't have to put up with any of these 3 limitations and various laws may, in theory, give them the clout to enforce equality. This would also benefit me as a sighted user on Linux. This is a more specific example of potential synergy between Linux and users with disabilities. thanks, Greg On 2021-05-04 2:43 p.m., alimiracle wrote: hi I'm a blind person When I want to read the pdf file I converting it to a text file have fun and be free ali miracle على 4/27/2021 11:34 AM، كتب Greg Knittl: fyi. pdf accessibility issues may be bigger than just XFA... https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat/anyone-know-how-a-blind-person-is-supposed-to-create-or-edit-a-pdf-when-acrobat-isn-t-screen-reader/m-p/10186392?search-action-id=167355598977=10186392 I see enormous convergence of interest between Linux and the disabled as we are both 2 small and often overlooked minorities. The disabled may have more formal legal rights than regular Linux users that we can piggyback on... Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
Hi Arthur, I'm not blind or disabled myself. I do note that the Canada Revenue Agency (similar to US IRS) makes tax forms available in etext. e.g. https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/cra-arc/formspubs/pbg/5006-r/5006-r-20e.txt I think their theory is that these forms are more likely to be supported by screen readers since they are just plain text. Is it possible that the command line and fundamental focus on text files in Linux could be the standard interface you are looking for? In the case of tax forms what's good for the blind is also good for me. The forms for the blind are laid out more sequentially and are easier to program against as well as having no PDF issues. I did actually submit my taxes on etext forms for the blind one year. Then I spent the rest of the year submitting adjustments to correct all the input errors, which makes me wonder if anyone else has ever filed on these forms... thanks, Greg On 2021-04-28 10:20 p.m., Arthur Torrey wrote: (yeah! something other than flagellating RMS's deceased equine) I sort of agree, but at the same time, it appears to me that the FLOSS software world is far less 'disability friendly' than the fruit company or the other big name OS My S.O has just become legally blind due to medical issues, and while I've been looking at what might be available in the way of low-vision setups, I've been rather underwhelmed... It seems every resource person she has heard from is pointing at the fruit company products as being most 'low vision friendly'. As a paraplegic I have minimal (no) need for accessibility stuff on my computers, but when I look at what the quads I know who need more adaptive setups are also using fruit machines almost entirely. I'm not a programmer of anything more complex than an Arduino, so not a lot I can do to fix things personally. It seems like a lot of the lower level of accessibility in GNU/Linux seems to be a combination of a (somewhat understandable) lack of 'itch that needs scratching' among mostly able bodied developers, and the wide range of interfaces / API's / not sure what to call them that exist in the FLOSS world. While usually this diversity is a strength, IMHO it is a problem when trying to come up w/ a consistent UI that works w/ every application. OTOH the fruit co's "One Way to Do Things" seems to make it easier to design an accessible UI that works w/ everything, and then focus on making it better I don't know what the solution is, I just wish there was one. ex-Gooserider -- Arthur Torrey - --- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 14:34:30 -0400 From: Greg Knittl To: Jean Louis Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed fyi. pdf accessibility issues may be bigger than just XFA... https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat/anyone-know-how-a-blind-person-is-supposed-to-create-or-edit-a-pdf-when-acrobat-isn-t-screen-reader/m-p/10186392?search-action-id=167355598977=10186392 I see enormous convergence of interest between Linux and the disabled as we are both 2 small and often overlooked minorities. The disabled may have more formal legal rights than regular Linux users that we can piggyback on... Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Overlap between the Software Freedom movement and the Right to Repair?
Hi Lars, The various GNU licences rely on copyright. I'm not sure if this is just trying to make the best of a bad situation by hacking copyright into it's opposite or whether belief in copyright is intrinsic to Software Freedom. Whatever the Software Freedom take is, I'm very much in favour of the right to repair. If only to reduce the amount of e-waste we generate. I'm in favour of a fundamental right to minimize one's carbon footprint, that would outweigh copyright when copyright gets in the way of repair and reuse in cases where it is less carbon intensive to repair and reuse than to build new. I see this as complimentary to and enhancing the right to repair which I'm sure has other good justifications independent of carbon footprint. The potential conflict with Software Freedom being that overriding copyright might override the Software Freedom attempt to hack copyright into it's opposite and the sharing that enforces. Greg On 2021-04-29 5:05 a.m., Lars Noodén wrote: In what ways, if any, do people consider it feasible for the Right To Repair and Software Freedom groups collaborate on the specific areas where there is overlap? If this has been discussed before please point me to the relevant archives. I've listened to a recent monologue and a short documentary on the Right To Repair [1] and it seems that there is an area of overlap between the Right To Repair movement and the Software Freedom movement. There are, of course, areas where they diverge since they focus mostly on hardware, but where they do overlap, there could be some collaboration because proprietary software is becoming a greater and greater factor inhibiting modding and even basic repair. One example which involves components familiar here is about refurbishing used computers. Some years ago, company which has been long-term problematic for the public, went after a recycler [2] and caused him a lot of legal difficulties for refurbishing old systems. Perhaps, he could have avoided the trouble by focusing on Free/Libre, Open Source Software (FLOSS) instead. Maybe not. But either way, the choice of FLOSS would have been better for him and his customers in other ways. Other examples involve the software within ice cream machines and farm equipment and the abuse of the ostensible owners via the proprietary software embedded in the machines. The software in both categories is set up so that the owner of the machines has very little control over the machines themselves, especially in regards to modding or repair, because they have no control at all over the software controlling the machines. Clearly in those categories, the right to repair proponents would benefit from the Four Freedoms. Likewise, the Software Freedom proponents would benefit from being aware of and eliminating the encroachment of malware [3] into devices which never previously had software. /Lars [1] "Let's talk about ice cream and why it matters" https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/let's-talk-about-ice-cream-and-why-it:a "The REAL Reason McDonalds Ice Cream Machines Are Always Broken" https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4 (the software part comes in at about half-way and three quarters of the way through the recording) [2] War on Recyclers: "The e-waste warrior, 28,000 copied Windows restore discs, and a fight to stay out of jail: Tech recycler fights" prison term for handing out recovery CDs https://www.theregister.com/2018/02/21/e_waste_lundgren_windows_dell/ https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/02/20/lundgrenappeal.pdf Coverage at Techrights: Part 1: Microsoft’s Legal Attacks on Eric Lundgren Demonstrate There’s No ‘New’ Microsoft Except a Super-Vicious, Law-Twisting Thug http://techrights.org/2019/07/26/story-of-eric-lundgren/ Part 2: Microsoft Windows Puts Recyclers Like Eric Lundgren in Prison and Patients Six Feet Under the Ground http://techrights.org/2019/07/27/microsoft-windows-injustice/ Part 3: Microsoft Put an Innocent, Heroic Man in Prison. Then Microsoft Ran Away. http://techrights.org/2019/08/03/microsoft-vs-heroes/ Part 4: Microsoft Being Microsoft, Bullying Everyone Who Reduces Microsoft’s Profits http://techrights.org/2019/08/04/reducing-microsoft-profits/ Part 5: Microsoft’s War on the Right to Repair (One’s Own Computers) Makes Lundgren an ‘Enemy’ to Microsoft http://techrights.org/2019/08/04/righttorepair/ Part 6: Damage Control Mode: Satya Nadella Fleeing Lundgren After Realising What Microsoft Had Done http://techrights.org/2019/08/05/satya-nadella-fleeing-lundgren/ Part 7: Slander and Libel From Microsoft (Demonising the Victim) http://techrights.org/2019/08/05/satya-nadella-fleeing-lundgren/ Part 8: Similar High-Profile ‘Bargains’ (Aaron Swartz and Marcus Hutchins) http://techrights.org/2019/08/06/fake-bargains/ [3] Proprietary Software Is Often Malware
Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
fyi. pdf accessibility issues may be bigger than just XFA... https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat/anyone-know-how-a-blind-person-is-supposed-to-create-or-edit-a-pdf-when-acrobat-isn-t-screen-reader/m-p/10186392?search-action-id=167355598977=10186392 I see enormous convergence of interest between Linux and the disabled as we are both 2 small and often overlooked minorities. The disabled may have more formal legal rights than regular Linux users that we can piggyback on... Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi Jean Louis, The non-discriminatory policy is a good find. I glanced at it but I don't have time yet to figure out if it has any teeth or how to enforce it. I have seen David Lepofsky's name come up in conjunction with protections for the disabled under COVID-19 triage. He is a lawyer, it looks like he is blind himself, and he would probably know whether it is legal for Ontario to have pdf forms that are not readable by screen readers - hopefully we can at least make the case that there are no screen readers for these forms on Linux... It would be better if there were no screen readers at all on any platform... thanks, Greg On 2021-04-20 11:42 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: * Greg Knittl [2021-03-21 22:27]: Hi Jean Louis, This is generic problem across at least 2 Ontario ministries. I have also encountered XFA forms for the Health Ministry Assistive Devices Program. I don't know exactly where to send the complaint. 1. start with https://www.ontario.ca/feedback/contact-us to find the right ministry to own the issue. maybe Ministry of Government and Consumer Services? 2. escalate up that ministry, and complete their complaints process if they are not responsive. I have sent letter and recommended that they make PDF by standard and I gave reference to: https://pdfreaders.org/pdfreaders.en.html It is however interesting that they DO have non-discriminatory policy and accessibility policy: https://www.ontario.ca/page/accessible-customer-service-policy ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi Jean Louis, This is generic problem across at least 2 Ontario ministries. I have also encountered XFA forms for the Health Ministry Assistive Devices Program. I don't know exactly where to send the complaint. 1. start with https://www.ontario.ca/feedback/contact-us to find the right ministry to own the issue. maybe Ministry of Government and Consumer Services? 2. escalate up that ministry, and complete their complaints process if they are not responsive. 3. open a complaint with the Ontario Ombudsman. 4. legal action??? I will assist when I can, but I'm going to be busy with an estate for a good year at least. thanks, Greg On 2021-03-21 3:07 p.m., Jean Louis wrote: Good ideas Greg, thank you, that is how to do it. But I am not sure if original author is going to write the letter. So please just tell me where to write the letter and I will write it as all my closest family is in Canada, I am the black sheep that likes East Africa. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi All, There may be a couple of legal angles to force Ontario to act: 1/ There may be a legal requirement for Ontario to support people with disabilities - i.e. to support screen reader software. Does anyone know? Does anyone know if there are any screen readers for XFA on any operating system? 2/ These are estate forms and estates are required to keep records. I still be able to read these forms in 10 years if I'm audited. Ontario can't expect me to keep an old computer around just in case. The response will be that I should print the forms and keep the paper so I doubt this is a very strong legal argument in itself. 3/ I'm not blind at the moment, but I might become blind and need to use a screen reader to pass an audit later. This might make 2/ into a workable legal argument. The legal counter argument is that I could OCR the paper... I have had some success getting the Federal government to supply text based income tax forms (etext). When I tried to actually submit a tax return by printing the etext forms they totally mangled the return and I had to file numerous corrections, to the point where I went back to filing on paper forms filled out by hand. Due to personal circumstance, I can't pursue these angles right now. I'm suggesting them because they probably apply more widely than just in Canada. It would seem to be a win-win for Free Software to ally with the disabled. Generally, they also need simpler, text based forms. thanks, Greg Forwarded Message Subject: Re: Adobe Reader 10 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:56:37 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: quiliro CC: m0dese...@member.fsf.org, J Leslie Turriff , libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Regarding the requirement to run Adobe on private computer, at stake are many people, not one, that is why I recommend sending letters to government and demanding free software while explaining why propriatery is inhibiting users' freedom. Many times such letter writings worked. While poster of the request may find solution for him -- it would be better to continue solving this problem for future and follow up with those in charge. Canad is so much recommending proprietary software, that is because people find individual solutions and don't complain. One should learn from protests and campaigns of FSFE in Europe, and simply do what they do, warning public officials of disservice and demanding fair treatment so that free software products can be used. By making forms in such way that only proprietary software can handle such forms, I would additionally asked of any ties to Adobe, and preferred treatment as that definitely increases income of US based company -- why would Canada be favoring it? It is sign of possible corruption in administration. From an article on: https://www.pcworld.com/article/214034/article.html EU Websites to Stop Promoting Proprietary PDF Readers Just one month after an organization that promotes free software hit out at the European Union for promoting proprietary PDF readers on its websites, 172 public institutions have removed such advertisements. The Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) found that the main E.U. portal europa.eu and the European Patent Office both promoted proprietary software. Other sites doing that included national ministries, parliaments and law enforcement agencies. "Several institutions replied stating that they agree with our concerns and that they will modify their websites," said campaign manager Matthias Kirschner. The PDF file format, originally developed by Adobe Systems, has now been adopted by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) as an international standard. Adobe Reader remains proprietary, but the file format can be read or written by a number of other software applications, some proprietary, some of them open source or free software. Most versions of the PDF file reader are open standards and free, but FSFE has received reports of 2,286 public sector institutions that advertise non-free PDF readers on their websites across 41 countries. The FSFE believes that by promoting proprietary software, "the public sector becomes a marketing channel for that company and its products, making it harder for free PDF readers to gain market share." "By advertising non-free software, they're doing citizens a disservice," said Karsten Gerloff, president of FSFE. "Democratic governments are supposed to give us freedom, not to drive us into dependence on a single software vendor." Of those that agreed to change their sites following the FSFE campaign, almost all reported institutions in Croatia deleted the advertisement. Half of those contacted in Russia and Slovenia also fulfilled FSFE's request. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss
Re: Adobe Reader 10 - paper form solution
Links: a specific form: http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/9955E~7/$File/9955E_2.pdf related forms http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/FormDetail?OpenForm=RDR=PROFILE==WWE=9955=9955E I think Ontario uses XFA quite extensively as I've run into this with other Ontario forms as well. thanks, Greg On 2021-03-20 1:05 p.m., Jean Louis wrote: * Greg Knittl [2021-03-20 16:12]: Hi Leland, GIMP 2.10.22 will not load this XFA pdf either. I use the same approach of converting the PDF to image and writing on the image. In this case the government will send me paper forms which I will scan and then write on the scans... I have been converting PDFs with ImageMagick: mogrify -format jpg -density 300 FILE.PDF It would create FILE-1.jpg FILE-2.jpg and so on for each page. You may increase the page quality. Try it out. Can you please post the PDF hyperlink? I would like to try it out with various PDF readers. More references: PDFium supports XFA and is free software: https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/ Evince is supposed to handle some XFA forms, maybe it is not compiled in on your system. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evince/Forms ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Adobe Reader 10 - paper form solution
Hi Leland, GIMP 2.10.22 will not load this XFA pdf either. I use the same approach of converting the PDF to image and writing on the image. In this case the government will send me paper forms which I will scan and then write on the scans... thanks, Greg On 2021-03-19 6:24 p.m., Leland Best wrote: Hi Greg, Sadly, haven't had time to read this entire thread so apologies if I'm repeating somebody(s). But ... I'm in the US and physically (neurologically) incapable of filling in forms via handwriting. While the most popular forms here are now available as "fillable" PDFs, they weren't always, and even now many less popular forms, schedules, worksheets, etc. still aren't. As a result, I long ago came up with a "simple" alternative. The GIMP will import a PDF (converting it to an image at whatever resolution one desires). So far, I've been able to import PDFs that 'evince' et al have failed on. Not sure why, but I'm _gussing_ it's because The GIMP opens it in some read-only/non-fillable mode. Anyway, it's then fairly easy to add text "layers" to fill in the form. I like this because there's no scanning involved (i.e. no dust, distortions, etc.) so the saved form is "perfect". I can even scan my signature and add it to the form where needed. You can then print the image directly from TheGIMP, or export it to a PDF (or, if that doesn't work, export to PNG, then use 'pdfjam' to collect all the PDFs into one (admittedly huge) final PDF. A second, similar, alternative is to import it into InkScape. Since InkScape uses vector graphics the resulting PDFs are much smaller, but I find it more cumbersome and time consuming to use. Trade-offs, trade-offs. :^| Just my $0.02 USD. Cheers Leland On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 2:47 PM Greg Knittl wrote: Hi All, thanks for all the comments, especially on standards. The Ontario Ministry of Finance will send me paper forms. I doubt I would get very far complaining to the Ombudsman unless I was absolutely blocked from filing so this is probably the end of the line for my complaint with Ontario. I will scan the paper and write on it with Imagemagick as I usually do in these type of situations. Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Adobe Reader 10 - paper form solution
Hi All, thanks for all the comments, especially on standards. The Ontario Ministry of Finance will send me paper forms. I doubt I would get very far complaining to the Ombudsman unless I was absolutely blocked from filing so this is probably the end of the line for my complaint with Ontario. I will scan the paper and write on it with Imagemagick as I usually do in these type of situations. Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Fwd: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi Marcus,
Fortunately, I don't have to fill out this (tax) form for some months
yet. I'm requesting a paper form, and if that doesn't work I may try
complaining to the Ontario Ombudsman.
I've seen people report problems with Master and XFA. If you get a
chance could you try editing the form?
http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/9955E~7/$File/9955E_2.pdf
thanks,
Greg
On 2021-03-17 11:05 a.m., Marcus Wilson wrote:
Hi Greg,
I've run into this kind of barrier in the past, and I wasn't willing to
install Adobe Reader through wine, so I set about searching for a
GNU/Linux compatible PDF client that would work. I found one called
Master PDF Editor. To get all the features costs money and is not
freely licensed, but it works well in these kinds of scenarios at least
in my experience.
If you can send a link to the PDF you're having trouble with or attach
a copy I can see if it'll open it.
They just sent me an update reminder with a coupon code too, so I can
forward that to you if it works.
Wish I had a freedom loving version I could share. Fun coincidence I
saw this email and today I'm wearing my 2020 Libre Planet shirt :-)
-Marcus
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Greg Knittl wrote:
Hi,
John suggested okular in his email below. It produces the same result,
but it does manage to put out an error message that says: "This
document
has XFA forms, which are currently unsupported."
thanks,
Greg
Forwarded Message
Subject: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:13:02 -0400
From: John Scott <[1]jsc...@posteo.net>
To: Greg Knittl <[2]gkni...@sympatico.ca>
For some reason my email didn't make it to the mailing list (looking at
the archives it seems it's not just me), so here's my response as an
attachment.
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References
1. mailto:jsc...@posteo.net
2. mailto:gkni...@sympatico.ca
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4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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Fwd: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi, John suggested okular in his email below. It produces the same result, but it does manage to put out an error message that says: "This document has XFA forms, which are currently unsupported." thanks, Greg Forwarded Message Subject: Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:13:02 -0400 From: John Scott To: Greg Knittl For some reason my email didn't make it to the mailing list (looking at the archives it seems it's not just me), so here's my response as an attachment. --- Begin Message --- On Wed, 2021-03-17 at 07:57 -0400, Greg Knittl wrote: > Evince won't handle it. Any suggestions for how to process on Linux? Evince does have some support for filling in fillable forms, but lacks some advanced features. In general Okular, the KDE document viewer, is more capable of advanced PDF features such as PDF annotations and even digital signatures. I suggest giving that a try even if you don't use KDE. If it's not a fillable form, you'll at least be able to insert text boxes and fill those in. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- End Message --- signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Fwd: Re: Adobe Reader 10
Hi Stephen, Instead of the actual form, evince shows "The document you are trying to load requires Adobe Reader 8 or higher. You may not have the Adobe Reader installed or your viewing environment may not be properly configured to use Adobe Reader. For information on how to install Adobe Reader and configure your viewing environment please see http://www.adobe.com/go/pdf_forms_configure.; I can't see how to get a version level for evince, but I am on Ubuntu 18.04. I get the same thing in Firefox. thanks, Greg Forwarded Message Subject: Re: Adobe Reader 10 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 07:03:46 -0500 From: Stephen Paul Weber To: Greg Knittl CC: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Evince won't handle it. Any suggestions for how to process on Linux? What errors do you get from Evince? ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Adobe Reader 10
Hi All, Some Ontario Government forms require Adobe Reader 10 which I can't find for Linux. I'm trying to obtain paper versions, although they don't make that obvious either. Evince won't handle it. Any suggestions for how to process on Linux? thanks, Greg p.s. I had previously posted for help with my Credit Union's online banking terms and conditions. They did actually remove the operating system specific language. There was some benefit to complaining in this case. The exact steps I have to take to be in compliance are still too vague for me to understand so still not online with them. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: How do you upon the very first plug in of a new computer not activate any of the MicroSoft?
Hi Don, I would pull out the hard drive and replace it with another one. This may void your hardware warranty on a laptop, for example. Microsoft may be entangled in the BIOS/boot chain but if haven't noticed that in my experience. thanks, Greg On 2020-06-14 1:00 p.m., Don Saklad wrote: a) Step by step how do you upon the very first plug in of a new computer not activate even a bit of the MicroSoft but so there is always an option of going to it at some later time, not accept its License and setup GNU/Linux? b) What other online groups are for asking about the procedure? ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Online banking support for Linux?
Hi All, I'm in Ontario, Canada. My credit union, Meridian, only supports Microsoft Windows and Max OS X for online banking. https://www.meridiancu.ca/About-Meridian/Privacy-and-Security.aspx under browser requirements. I doubt they have any legal or regulatory obligation to support Linux - but it's getting to the point where it's almost a necessity to bank online, especially with COVID-19. I think the government needs to step in to regulate online banking terms and conditions. Any thoughts on legalities? From the https://www.meridiancu.ca/About-Meridian/Privacy-and-Security.aspx especially the section titled Your Online Privacy they describe fairly vague security procedures that would be difficult to completely follow even if I installed Windows or MAC OS X. I.e. if there were an issue I have the feeling the "100% Security Guarantee" wouldn't amount to much. Also these are not really platform specific requirements and they could just as well apply to Linux. They have offered to support me remotely by paper mail and phone (I now have a cell phone which I doubt is particularly secure) which I will probably do for now. Any thoughts on technical issues? How would a financial institution write platform independent online banking terms and conditions? I cringe at how much attack surface a browser adds especially with javascript. Maybe I've spent too much time on the command line, but sending encrypted files back and forth by email or ftp or internet get/post seems safer to me. Has anyone found an institution that officially supports Linux, particularly in Canada? thanks, Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] free and libre tax software
Hi, I'm interested in writing free and libre income tax software for Canada. https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:LibrePlanet_Ontario/FLCTPSP Technically it's a challenge because of the shear quantity of calculations. It has to be easy for different people to add and maintain different pieces of the calculations because there's no chance I can do it all. This all has to mesh together somehow. It would be nice if accountants would pick it up and maintain it so the calculation engine and the data need to be well separated. Each field requires a description in English and French, a formula, form name, line number, identifier number. It might also include references to the Income Tax Act. Formulae for a field can change depending on the context so the formula language may need to conditional expressions. This is probably more than a text file. Maybe a database, xml, json... just to contain the relevant information. The calculation engine has to resolve dependencies and process the formulae. It needs to have minimal dependencies so it lasts. It could be written in C, but there is already tsort and bc. Bash could calculate dependencies by replacing variables with shell functions. Libre Office Calc resolves dependencies and processes formulae but how to input the formulae and other data in an automated way? There needs to be output in a variety of formats: human readable, for electronic submission, suitable for difference operations (comparing against previous years or previous versions to create adjustments) There are political obstacles that are probably more unique to Canada but it wouldn't surprise me if the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) will argue that they don't want to expose the electronic tax submission interface for security reasons. Are there any other free/libre tax calculation engines out there? I would think the technical challenges are going to be similar around the world. There may be similar political challenges to getting tax authorities to open up their interfaces. It would be very helpful to have examples of other countries where people do use free/libre tax software to submit their returns electronically. thanks, Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
