Re: Software Freedom in education (was Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about free software?)
I was reading your long email, and this has been on my mind for a long time, but in order to get the freedom respecting software technology into the hands of everyone for everything instead of proprietary software, what you have to solve is not a technology problem, but a marketing problem. If you think about how we got to the state we are in today, with proprietary software dominating in certain areas of computing, you have to remember that the reason for that is because of marketing, not because the products are better, but because of how people know about it, and the social relationships between people. Just because software has always been promoted a certain way, or that even it is promoted in a different way does not mean we have to keep doing it that way. I keep thinking about what you said, how asking questions is a skill that is honed with practice, and not everyone has mastered it, and how it goes over differently with different audiences. Then you talk about all those newbie questions and how people just want their stuff to work. Why should people have to answer endless newbie questions for free all the time, why can’t that be a paid job? Why wouldn’t people pay someone to hold their hand and basically help them through everything? A lot of the thinking about this kind of thing comes from people in the technology space, people who like to fool around for hours on end to get things to work, rather than just ask someone and have it done in five seconds. We have this fascination with technology and are happy to, for hours on end, get the search engines to hopefully bring in relevant results and then tweak them until it works. Yet, once you are in the mindset of a tech person, how can you get into the mindset of your opposite, the marketing person selling memberships, the multi-level network marketer, a person whose focus is on people, marketing and selling, not technology? The thing with marketing, is it is just as innovative as technology, and techniques that worked to get peoples attention and get them to buy are always changing, and yet the principles are timeless. You have to get the product in front of an audience and convince people that it is the product for them, or that it is the service for them. So, with that I have some questions. What if we improved tech support by bringing people in who speak the customers own language in terms they can understand? What if we brought people in whose strengths were not so focused on the technology piece, but on the human piece, and focused on the way people use technology rather than trying to turn everyone into a tech guru? I’ve often wondered if certain strategies used in marketing focused businesses could be used for tech support. What if the person selling the support could be responsible for the people they bring in, for getting them the help that they want with freedom respecting software? What if it was not about trying to save money, but people buying a membership in a community where they feel welcome and understood? I’m only one person, and I certainly don’t have all the answers, and I don’t expect technology focused people to necessarily wrap their heads around the idea that people are literally buying into this idea of a community and not a product or service. But, yet this is essentially what the free software foundation is, and we need to take this concept and expand it. We need to reach new markets through people whose primary interest is in marketing and relationships. I really think this needs to be discussed further. I do not think the issues are unsolvable, but that they will require always going outside of our communities, but also going outside our own modes of thought and becoming our opposites. On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 08:56:00 PM EDT, Yasuaki Kudo wrote: With partners, I am currently trying to start a "digital commons movement", if you will, a community where people learn together and rebuild a new collaborative society based on partnership of the equals, and I stress this term equal partnership - zero hierarchy, zero "come back later when you know know how to ask better questions", zero knowledge worshipping, zero founder, zero leadership - initially focused on the digital domain to bootstrap the movement. In such a community, yes, any question, suggestion or statement will be welcome! They are not only welcome but will probably form the backbone of the society. Erica's really good points and many others we discussed here such as the twitter replacement, make me think that time is ripe for this. In the community I am thinking of, Free Software will be an important part but it will not be the end goal or the most dominant focus. Rather, Free Software will be a natural choice, because the software
Re: LibrePlanet feedback [was Re: access to talks]
It is a shame you missed Sunday. They fixed the technical issues and the video feed got much much better. It was great to see the turnaround on the second day of the conference. Unfortunately my talk was Saturday. Hopefully the replays from Saturday will not be bad like the streams were. On Friday, March 25, 2022, 11:37:38 AM EDT, Devin Ulibarri wrote: Hi, On 3/24/22 14:45, Leland Best wrote: > I couldn't find a place on the web-site for feedback about the 2022 (virtual) > LibrePlanet conference so I'm posting it here. The LibrePlanet 2022 Questionnaire is published here: [1]https://my.fsf.org/node/49 > My apologies if I'm out of line. > Obviously, all this is strictly my personal opinion. There is nothing wrong with posting feedback to this mailing list. That being said, replies to the questionnaire help staff to more conveniently assess feedback in aggregate (e.g. to better see how many others may be saying similar things about x, y, and/or z). Please consider also adding your feedback to the questionnaire linked above. As for the videos, the staff are busily working on preparing them for publication. We expect them to be published fairly soon. Thank you, Devin -- Devin Ulibarri // Outreach & Communications Coordinator Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: [2]https://my.fsf.org/ US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign. [3]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ GPG Key: 2E0E CE75 F816 2B40 7D66 6767 8797 38E6 D644 0D57 What's GPG? See [4]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ for more info. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [5]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [6]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://my.fsf.org/node/49 2. https://my.fsf.org/ 3. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 4. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 5. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 6. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
I would not wish proprietary software on my worst enemy. The less proprietary software used the better. On Thursday, March 3, 2022, 01:48:15 PM EST, Ole Aamot wrote: Ukrainian state broadcaster is currently not GNOME Internet Radio Locator 12.2.0. Kyiv is under attack and we want to limit Russia and Putin's access to information. Is this wrong to think? Users are free to add their own radio stations as users into $HOME/.gnome-internet-radio-locator/gnome-internet-radio-locator.xml The release is available from [1][1]https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/1 2.2 /gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz and needs testing. See [2][2]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ for more information about the previous release 12.0.9 with the Ukrainian state broadcaster and it's location "Kyiv, Ukraine". Not mapped on OpenStreetMap. Best, Ole On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:12 PM Devin Ulibarri <[3][3]dev...@fsf.org> wrote: Hi, On 3/3/22 00:07, Richard Stallman wrote: > We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to > admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human. As for me, the mistake I would like to admit is not being careful enough in choosing my words. I did not mean to suggest that the FSF was taking a particular public stance, when in fact, it has not (and is under no obligation to do so). I appreciate everyone's work toward the common vision of achieving user freedom, and I look forward to the discussions to come, as we all have a lot of work to do. Best wishes, Devin -- Devin Ulibarri // Outreach & Communications Coordinator Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: [4][4]https://my.fsf.org/ US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign. [5][5]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ GPG Key: 2E0E CE75 F816 2B40 7D66 6767 8797 38E6 D644 0D57 What's GPG? See [6][6]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ for more info. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [7][7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [8][8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s -- Ole Aamot Aamot Software / [9]www.aamot.software Frydenbergveien, 0575 OSLO, Norway (+47) 45049800 / [10][9]ole@aamot.software References 1. [10]https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12. 2/gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz 2. [11]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:[12]dev...@fsf.org 4. [13]https://my.fsf.org/ 5. [14]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 6. [15]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 7. mailto:[16]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. [17]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 9. [18]http://www.aamot.software/ 10. mailto:[19]ole@aamot.software ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [20]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [21]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2 2. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:dev...@fsf.org 4. https://my.fsf.org/ 5. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 6. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus 9. mailto:ole@aamot.software 10. https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2/gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz 11. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 12. mailto:dev...@fsf.org 13. https://my.fsf.org/ 14. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 15. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 16. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 17. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 18. http://www.aamot.software/ 19. mailto:ole@aamot.software 20. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 21. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Announcing Zoë Kooyman as our new executive director
Congratulations to Zoë Kooyman. I look forward to a massive scaling of the free software movement. On Thursday, March 3, 2022, 11:54:33 AM EST, Dennis Payne wrote: I too found your post rather insulting. Not for questioning her existence. That I can chalk up to joke. More for the "nor saw her to do anything in Free Software" comment. I know she does work for LibrePlanet. I suspect she can be found in a number of the videos for previous years. On Thu, 2022-03-03 at 05:19 +, Jacob Hrbek wrote: > For context i am arguing for a long time (like 4 years now?) for FSF > to > be more gender equal where each time i bring that issue up everyone > starts with "oh there is zoe! we are very gender equal, because zoe! > and > we always supported gender equality", but when i ping her on IRC or > try > to talk to her she never responds, i never saw her talk to anyone on > IRC, i couldn't find her doing anything in terms of free software and > everyone always starts yelling at me for daring to try to talk to her > or > about her. > > at least from my experience thus the question.. wasn't meant to be > disrespectful if zoe is really a real person then this is a major > milestone for FSF to name a women as an executive director which i > fully > support and argue for more gender equality. > > On 3/2/22 22:52, mray wrote: > > > > > > On 02.03.22 16:47, Jacob Hrbek wrote: > > > was i disrespectable? If so my apologies > > > > When asked to welcome a new representative you react with > > questioning > > the mere existe > nce of said person. That seems like a totally normal > > welcoming and respectable thing. At least here, I guess? :D > > > > On my way out I'll gladly take those apologies as some kind of an > > inside joke. > > > > I'm off, too. > > -- > Jacob Hrbek, In support of ukraine sovereignty #supportUkraine > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > [2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [3]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: why isn't stallman on lp2022 speakers list?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not in any way anti-RMS, but the free software movement needs to be about freedom respecting software, and not hero worship (whether that person is RMS or some other "hero") Long term, what are we going to do, the whole trans-humanism thing where we worship a "computer" who is encoded with the "flawed" personality of a dead person? On Thursday, March 3, 2022, 07:19:32 PM EST, Kaio Duarte Costa wrote: Em 2022-03-03 17:04, Pedro Lucas Porcellis escreveu: > Do we? Isn't a lot of other people available which can offer the same > level of guidance as RMS? Hasn't the man spoken a lot over all those > years? > > If we don't, then I think there's much more to evaluate other than him > *needing* to be on the list of speakers. > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > [2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss I agree with this, I think the question should be well analyzed, even. Many people signed up, took the time and filled out the form to participate in LibrePlanet 2022 as speakers, including me. It is not fair to those who prepared and filled out the form before, the deadline has passed and it was very well publicized by the way. Also, we should pay close attention before saying something like "we or X people (or community) need this". I respect the RMS just as I respect and treat anyone well, but I think you should note that the people who are going to speak are also leaders and no one is leading above anyone else. We all follow the same philosophy, and I respect everyone's opinion on the matter and show my disagreement on the issue respectfully here. -- Kaio Duarte Costa (Kaiod) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [3]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Helping new contributors
I want to clarify some things that make it hard for software users to advocate for freedom respecting software. If we do not know what all these programs are and why people use them, it makes it much harder to do anything about them. Facebook = cloud service running non-free software why people use it = friends are on it and no good replacement for the "groups" feature in federated social media. (else I could definitely move some groups to it, especially in a "crisis" moment.) Discord = cloud service running non-free software why people use it = people like the persistent chat feature, that they don't have to leave their computer at home idling and wasting electricity 24/7 just to keep the chat logs going on a room. built in voice chat is a bonus, but in my experience doesn't necessarily get used a lot. (as people in different time zones aren't necessarily all on at the same time) Discourse = freedom respecting software under a free software license. It runs on someone else's server. (as it is for communities) It uses javascript in your browser. why people use it = People like Discourse communities because the software has made it easy to find new posts, get rid of spam before it starts, and keep the spirit of the community going. On Monday, April 12, 2021, 11:18:41 AM EDT, Tobias Platen wrote: On Fri, 2021-04-09 at 09:04 -0400, Suushi via libreplanet-discuss wrote: I have never used Discord, but you can use Jami as a replacement. > > > > By doing this ourselves, as advocates of free software, we can > > > > include links to why free software methologies are better, even > > > > if > > > > we have to be a little flexible in what we use for support and > > > > communication, Discourse my not be ideal, but would we rather > > > > people > > > > used facebook or discord? > > > > > > Of course not Facebook. It is very easy to establish XMPP chat, > > > it can > > > be on the website or by using various applications, it will work > > > from > > > any device. There are other free software communication packag > > > > > > > My support group is about respecting privacy /user freedom as > > > > much > > > > as possible. > > > ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: re. RMS
I think a lot of this discussion about RMS is because most people forget about freedom respecting software activism most of the time. They don't live eat sleep and breathe it 24/7. Every time a RMS news article comes out, or he is embroiled in some controversy, then people find the time and energy to gather on these lists and discuss him again. The only problem is, it doesn't necessarily lead to new and more effective freedom respecting software advocacy strategies. On Monday, April 5, 2021, 12:05:45 PM EDT, Thomas Lord wrote: Autism awareness is great but armchair diagnoses are not. Could we at least ask to rename this list "let's talk endlessly about RMS' personality" to better reflect reality? :-P -t On 2021-04-05 06:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting > that RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days > he slept in his office at MIT (my student days). > > Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that? > > Miles Fidelman > > -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > In practice, there is. Yogi Berra > > Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. > Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. > In our lab, theory and practice are combined: > nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > [2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [3]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: A challenge for community to go beyond what's already rule
>It is just a matter of attitude. If programmers themselves support
>and demand writing only free software then customers will not complain
>as customers need a product.
I see a lot of programmers who want to write free software, but feel
they must bow down to their corporate overlords, or support currently
existing software business models and marketing tactics (rather than
looking outside the software industry to invent new ones.) I also
know some software developers who love to code, but would rather not
touch the "dirty" marketing side of things, thus not using effective
methods to reach new customers. And, instead of saying "hey, I need
help with that." they label the marketing person as "evil" and push
them away.
On Friday, November 20, 2020, 1:40:18 PM EST, Jean Louis
wrote:
* Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss
<[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> [2020-11-20 21:21]:
>I believe in buying local if at all possible. Sometimes, that
doesn't
>work or doesn't really make sense (like if i tried to grow all my
>tropical fruit in a greenhouse)
I would buy local stuff would it be of good quality. Let us say when
thinking of African countries one may think of ecologically produced
crops, but that is not so, far from it! They learned what everybody
does so they do it too, so they purchase inexpensive Indian
manufactured pesticides and spray all over all crops with it, any
crops without taking care how to apply it properly. Wordings on the
pesticides are written so small that I have to use the magnifier to
read
it, and it is not because of my eyesight. Then one can read that it
causes so many side effects and that one bottle is enough even for
many hectares of land. And they spray one bottle on 20 meter by 20
meter piece of land. Then I should eat those beans, potatoes, sweet
potatoes and what else. So there is no special preference from where
product comes from. Everybody would like it is local as distance is
practical benefit and there is no doubt about it. Problem is that
local products often do not exist in the form how one wants it.
>If there isn't a local one, in your country or geographic area, I
>think it is perfectly fine to buy an overseas one. That is one
>of the reason why I do not support the abuse of copyright to
>prevent people from printing stuff in their own countries.
That I did not quite understand. You basically say that you would not
prevent people printing stuff in their own countries?
In those countries outside of Europe and North America by large and
practically there are no problems with any copyrights. Those cases are
mostly left for larger companies while normal people can simply do
what they want. Would Chinese people would purchase foreign products
in large? I do not think so. They have all proprietary and free
software anyway gratis or for peanuts, few cents, so they can get it
and nobody will punish them.
South America, Africa, Central America, Eastern Europe, Asia and
Africa, in those areas practical life is pretty much careless in
relates to any copyrights. I find it good so and I hate that I have to
worry when downloading some files over Torrent when I am in Germany.
>I do try to practice what I preach (and I try not to be an
>annoying preacher alienating people with impractical ideologies.)
>I am a member of a CSA, community supported agriculture.
Do you work with villages? Here is one good book for you, I think
copyrights expired, it is free, so you may use it to enhance
communities:
[2]https://www.startyourowngoldmine.com/files/books/social-betterment/H
omemaking%20Handbook%20for%20Village%20Workers%20in%20Many%20Countries.
pdf
>I think that is an interesting business model that software
>developers should look into if they want to make a living from
>software development without resorting to the proprietary model
>for "the long tail" of software, that is, software that is not
>general purpose but has a specialized niche audience, (an area
>where there is often way to much proprietary software,
>particularly software targeted at non-technical people who just
>want to get stuff done, and not spend hours writing code.)
Alright. I do hold opinion that it does not matter. There were few
small orders online and I said if they wish to work with me, that is
fine, but software written has to be free software and I have not have
problems of acceptance. They agreed on it. And they also used other
free software only that nobody in the company used it or looked at it
ideologically. We created some shell scripts for customers like
installation assistants and
Re: A challenge for community to go beyond what's already rule
I believe in buying local if at all possible. Sometimes, that doesn't work or doesn't really make sense (like if i tried to grow all my tropical fruit in a greenhouse) Part of the problem is that also many things are shipped around the world, I mean, computer chips don't exactly grow on trees. They are made overseas somewhere in factories and I have no idea where. I would suggest buying from the most local place you can for your libreboot laptop. If there isn't a local one, in your country or geographic area, I think it is perfectly fine to buy an overseas one. That is one of the reason why I do not support the abuse of copyright to prevent people from printing stuff in their own countries. I do try to practice what I preach (and I try not to be an annoying preacher alienating people with impractical ideologies.) I am a member of a CSA, community supported agriculture. I think that is an interesting business model that software developers should look into if they want to make a living from software development without resorting to the proprietary model for "the long tail" of software, that is, software that is not general purpose but has a specialized niche audience, (an area where there is often way to much proprietary software, particularly software targeted at non-technical people who just want to get stuff done, and not spend hours writing code.) On Friday, November 20, 2020, 1:04:22 PM EST, Yoni Rabkin wrote: [1]thi...@softwarelivre.net.br writes: >Hey there! > >Although I do support this kind of initiative (of new Libreboot laptop >stores), and I am a supporter of libreboot / coreboot as well as Free >Libre / Open Source Hardware, I would like to ask you all here: > >Couldn't we have more popular prices? What do we have to do to boost >more popular projects? > >I mean, it's awesome the new store, but after opening it, I felt the >same disappointment from before. I still wait for more popular & fair >options. Who can & will pay for a retro with such prices? I can't, so >seeing such stores feels like a distant dream. > >I am from a foreign country, with its money devalued in comparison to >your currencies. These prices are for rich gringos, for your own people >and not for a broader community. I will never have the chance to get a >Librebooted ThinkPad from any of the sellers I know (and I would like >to support you) simply because it becomes too expensive. I bet there >are lots of young (or older) free software/hardware enthusiasts fom the >UK that can't pay for these laptops, and no relativisms can make such >prices seem fair. > >The community, I guess, lacks very much options for getting popular >Librebooted ThinkPads. How to help expanding free software and hardware >in scenarios like this? These prices are over, so we will never support >your stores because we can't. We can just try to do it ourselves, >paying fair prices getting used pieces (just as yours) from people that >doesn't know that there are companies selling it for much more because >it is "libreboot". > >Even when it comes to offering the service of installing Libreboot or >whatever, I just see obscene prices. I buy a compatible ThinkPad with >less than you (several stores) want to charge just for the service. > >Where are we going? Do we want to make things more popular and make the >whole strong, or do we want a small community of FSF members and >Librebooted laptop owners?! The prices Leah lists are fair. Please remember that when you see a "cheap" price of a laptop somewhere it is because that corporation is subjugating people to bring that price down; the people who built that laptop do not partake in the profits. An inexpensive and shiny new laptop is just the vanguard of an oppressive system, or a rich corporation/government giving out "charity" in order to gain control over people. Please don't compare Leah's prices to those. I realize that this explains the situation but does nothing to solve it. This is because what you are pointing out is the broader problem of world-wide income inequality. I can't solve that problem, and neither can Leah, but Leah is not making it any worse by offering services to some. I agree that the situation as a whole is ugly and unfair. But I don't want blame apportioned to people who are doing good. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice" ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References
Privacy Respecting Replacement for facebook groups
Hello everyone, I'm trying to figure out a privacy respecting replacement for facebook groups. I want something that is easy to join, (so no requirement that you learn email encryption, system administration or anything "hard" but also something that even Richard Stallman wouldn't object to (not that I'm trying to recruit him to join it, just some people are really zealots about stuff, if it doesn't have javascript that is also a bonus.) I've also considered things like email lists, matermost, irc and forums, and I've dismissed them for the following reasons. 1. Lots of people just ignore email thesse days, plus it isn't really very real time. 2. irc is just a chat channel, too many bots and while it is real time, it doesn't really have any persistance of topics. 3. Forums tend to be too public with just anyone can join it, and while you can have private forums or private sections of forums, you need to be an administrator to set that all up. Plus forums tend to have things like spralling topics, and things that either get out of date, or else there is no conversation about the subject (thread necromancy vs an empty forum.) I want to create a small group that is highly engaged with the subject, chatting everyday etc. 4. Email messages from lists you need to get info from can end up in spam if you don't set up email right. It is too easy to miss important messages cause you get consumed with marketing or things you inadvertantly signed up for and should not have. 5. Matermost is like discord, but then I would have to set it up, and I'm not a professional system admin. If i spend all my time learning professional system admin skills, then I won't get to do what I want, which is interacting with people. Just on a whim I also checked into Dissporia and groups.io, mastadon doesn't really have groups yet, and I don't think all the source code for groups.io is included. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: My Experience Selling Free Software
I would like to share my experience as a user who reports bugs. I enjoy bug reporting, but only if it is productive. I'm not very eager to go out of my way to spend the time reporting bugs that will never be fixed. There was a proprietary program I used on GNU/Linux for a while, that I even wasted money on at one point. Some of the bugs took an awful long time to fix, others were never fixed at all. It made it all feel useless (compound the problems of multiple different versions of linux and libraries getting out of date, and of course these problems are not in any way exclusive or even remotely caused by proprietary software, any significantly complex project with a small development team is effected unless they want to install 100s of Linux distros and test on them all including ones that have not been released yet. That is why things like flatpak were invented, not to, as some people say, promote proprietary software, but rather make complex software crafted by small teams viable on a large number of various distros. ) I've also seen where in some larger freedom respecting software projects, users report a lot of bugs but the developer team spends their time basically saying. "Okay, nice you found a bug, now go fix it yourself, we don't exist for you to order around," or something to that effect. But if they got paid perhaps they would fix the bugs (or perhaps not, but maybe if not they shouldn't keep getting paid year after year.) Where I have found bug reporting to be most useful is in small teams or even solo developers, when using the latest version from the repository. In fact I gave a talk a couple years ago (2019) called "The Joy of Bug Reporting. So, with this background of my software and strategy, let me explain some psychological effects that happen with the customers. In gratis-ware, such as the common type of free software project, users will just stop using the software if it doesn't work for them. They didn't invest any money into it, and so they don't invest any of their own time to ensure they get their money's worth ($0). So, if the software doesn't work precisely right for them, they'll just stop using it. Or, if another software does something similar but also something else, they'll switch without a second thought. Yeah, there is defiantly something to that. On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:05:12 PM EDT, Davis Remmel wrote: Hello libreplanet-discuss, In my experience very few free software developers sell their work. I want to share my experience with selling free software, and why I think it's important for developers to realize why it's beneficial, and explain the psychological processes that compound to support the software _more_ than gratis-ware. As background, I've now exclusively developed free software for about 4 years, and have just began selling it myself. Previously, I developed an industrial IoT platform built entirely with free software (real-time display of industrial processes, sidestepping proprietary vendors like Rockwell). This was not a consumer market, priced very high, and done contractually so the users were not casual consumers. This week, I released a piece of consumer-level free software, and in one week has generated over $500 in sales (45 paying users) from a single post on Reddit. As long as sales continue at the current pace (they have tapered off, but still making above the poverty limit) I am able to pursue writing all the free software I want, independently. For some background on why people buy my tool, it's because this tablet's manufacturer has crappy software, and there is only one other software vendor that also has crappy software. Usually, documents are transferred to this tablet via the manufacturer's cloud, but my tool transfers documents locally. Also, the manufacturer's software allows exporting of a user's documents, but they look like bad photocopies (they wanted to keep their pencil shading code proprietary)--my software has its own renderer, and produces images that actually look like what the tablet's screen shows. Coincidentally, my software exports these documents locally (secure), faster (rendered on-PC), with higher quality, and lower file sizes. Ergo, my software is plain better, and so it fills many consumer needs--this is a huge factor in why it sells (not just because its free). With a $12 purchase, I give customers 1 year of email support and updates. And, I have written a high-quality user manual that I showcase to let users know exactly what the software does before buying. My sales pitch is blunt, straight-forward, with no bullshit. The _bonus_ for customers is that my software is not restrictive. The other available clients are incredibly restrictive: one client uses the manufacturer's
Re: Linked in Alternative - free / privacy respecting
I have been thinking about this myself a lot as well. Whatever is made, it needs to be something developers would actually use. There are lots of times where people make what seems to be great sites, but no one ever uses them. Free Software project teams need three things. 1. Vision, a coherent vision of what the project is supposed to be about, the problem or issue or desire the project is supposed to address, the types of users it is supposed to serve. Sometimes this can be stated simply as "roughly a clone of some proprietary program", but for new innovative ideas that doesn't really work. 2. Passion. developers must have passion about the project, even if they aren't devoting a lot of time to it, they must at least think it is worthwhile enough to spend their most precious commodity upon, that is their time, sometimes this is because the project scratches a developers own itch, or someone the developer personally knows. 3. Skills. If it was just passion and vision things would be easier. However there are sometimes groups of people with a lot of passion and vision, but not enough skills to pull it off. Eventually, all the passion and vision just seems to dissipate if needed skills cannot be applied to the creation of or improvement of the project. On Friday, May 15, 2020, 10:30:05 AM EDT, Paul Sutton wrote: Hi Not sure if this is a little off topic, I am currently on LinkedIn which is OK for some things but seems just sluggish and not very friendly in places. I wondered if there was an alternative that is more in line with the values of the free software community and respects privacy. Possible features 1. Could be built with free tools 1. Built by developers for developers, which would allow free software projects to find other developers (or hackers as we call them) to help with projects. 3.Perhaps enabled with Activity pub to allow a decentralized approach and linking to fediverse accounts. 4. With linkedIn you can pull down dates from a menu, sometimes having a free form entry box would perhaps be better. 5. Tags for job or other skills, this would allow easy searching by tags, similar to the fediverse. if you have for example #kernel in your list, then anyone doing a search should be able to find others with kernel expertise 8 easier to add qualifications and courses, LinkedIn seems to be rather clunky with this, you add a provider, then add courses and have to link to the provider. It may be easier to have a text box for this and you add in the information manually. 9. I was asked recently on Mastodon to prove I was not a robot user, so something similar may actually encourage / force some sort of interaction. 10. Make it easier to add work history, be it employment, volunteer etc, Friendica makes it easy to add a post, with a topic box, tag box and the a free form text box. So maybe something similar. As with Friendica or Mastodon I can add pictures to posts, to adding a pdf / picture of a certificate should in theory be doable that way (may be better for the qualifications but that would also cover in work training. 11. Maybe have encryption and gpg built in (privacy / security) 12. Allow for gpg keys if you sign gpg my key you have met me, so could be a way to sign my profile or say I am that person (if that makes sense) 13. integration in to chat services or ids for chat services. I was thinking that this would make it easier to find people to help with development. I am not looking at developing this (I really don't have the skills or even know where to start), just asking if there has been any discussions anywhere regarding developing such a service. I know there are lots of individual projects that need help and there has to be an easy for developers to sign up and find where others need help. Thanks Regard Paul Sutton -- Paul Sutton [1]https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like Think Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting than anything else that can run a FSF endorsed distro and coreboot. Even some new system76 machines are running coreboot now from what I understand. I understand it is hard to find hardware that gets a RYF certification because of some stuff with intel, but I understand this is not necessarily an issue with every chip, just most desktops and laptops. (with the exception of some old ones such as the refurbished ThinkPads like the t400) On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 3:12:10 PM EDT, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. [1]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVo YkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
Just for fun, I put the words freedom respecting software, and then free software into duck duck go. Freedom respecting software actually came up with more valid free software related results, whereas the term "free software" also had a lot of things that were just free as in cost, and not necessarily as in freedom. Richard Stallman actually uses the term freedom respecting software in one of his speeches (maybe more I didn't watch them all.) Maybe we should all switch to the term "freedom respecting software" to avoid confusion for people unfamiliar with the free software movement, because people will generally not use that term for stuff that is just free as in cost. One thing I would like to point out is that all software developers are also software users, so when the choose to subjugate people by developing proprietary software, they also support a system of subjugating themselves to proprietary software. On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 9:35:33 PM EST, Roberto Beltran via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > I personally identify as a freetard. Based, but I feel like most would take issue with that. I'm not really trying to do that in particular. - Roberto Beltran [1]https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://libremiami.org/ 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
I like the term freedom respecting software that someone mentioned. I think, in some sense it makes more sense than free software, something that someone could easily confused with software that has no upfront cost (aka freeware), like for instance those "free to play games" with micro payments and no source code, or certain chat software that is popular and has zero cost, but doesn't supply the source code either. I'm not sure we need a word like vegan. I mean, being a vegan can be problematic from a number of perspectives that would be more equivalent its more like someone like RMS who doesn't have a face book account, only uses a computer with a free -bios, has no java script turned on all the time, would rather get lost for days rather than use proprietary gps etc. Ironically, a lot of people like the Amish and people in the third world might fall into this category, not because they know and care about software, but because they either don't have or don't want access to it to begin with, (until they get a cell phone that is.) On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 2:00:24 AM EST, Caleb Herbert wrote: I personally identify as a freetard. -- Caleb Herbert KE0VVT (816) 892-9669 [1]https://bluehome.net/csh ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://bluehome.net/csh 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: “Get rid of digests”
I used to read digests cause I got too many emails and was on tons and tons of email lists about various topics of interest. Now, for a lot of that stuff I just read message forums and don't bother with email. There is just no way I could keep up with the amount of conversation that goes on in those communities, and that is why they have forums rather than lists. Lists are really only good for a small group of people that are frequently writing to each other. I'll be honest, a lot of my email is opt in marketing email or coordinating in person events with friends and groups I am involved with. (cause I for one don't answer phone messages, too much spam on the phone these days.) On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 12:10:42 PM EDT, J.B. Nicholson wrote: Dmitry Alexandrov wrote: > Is there something wrong with them per se? Except, that most of the > people have no clue how to use them properly, I mean. I find that most MUAs don't handle digests well and this creates needless thread breaking. I don't blame the software mishandling on the user. Digests also lead to followup posts with excessive quoted material from people who don't edit out the superfluous text. That I do blame on the user, as they could take time to edit that out, but I also blame on digests because the digesting (by its nature) gives users so much more text to work with. I don't believe digests have been in high demand for the past decade or so (based on what I have seen of the mailing lists I've administered). These days people seem to have no problem getting email accounts with high quotas. Storage seems to only get cheaper per volume with time. So I don't find storage-related arguments to be convincing. Paying for bandwidth to the endpoint also strikes me as a poor argument; people don't seem to object to using webmail or mail client protocols which do a good job of letting people download the specific set of emails they want to read (IMAP, for example, and I think JMAP looks like it will continue in this way). Taken as a whole, I'm convinced that whatever benefit came from mailing list digests has passed and thus support for digested mailing is not worth taking on the complexity of "proper" (as you say) implementation or use. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: FSF Resign Awards: Call for Nominations
On Monday, September 30, 2019, 2:44:49 PM EDT, Deb Nicholson wrote: On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 1:25 PM Danny Spitzberg <[1][1]stationa...@gmail.com> wrote: I thought Bradley’s 2018 “state of the copyleft union“ talk at LibrePlanet was a rare and important bit of positive constructive criticism for free/libre software. Sadly, it was met with mixed reactions from the audience- including RMS who apparently saw it as defeatist, because he yelled “We’re not licked yet!!” and then stormed the stage to give an impromptu rebuttal. I don’t have much context for other contributions from Bradley, but that one talk was a breath of fresh air and levelheadedness. (Bradly, do you know the whereabouts of that talk, the notes, or dare I imagine, the video?) >>>I think the FSF chose not to make that one available. Danny, thank you also for speaking in favor of constructive criticism. No movement can survive an allergy to discussion -- especially the discussion of problems and challenges -- such as all too sadly been happening on this list lately. The assumption that any discussion of tactics, or how the free software movement might respond to changes in society or changes in the industry is necessarily a smear campaign by Microsoft/Facebook/Etc has been extremely tiresome. Best, Deb I found the talk easily on libre planet media. I thought it was a good talk. Bradly called for employees to stop being so afraid of their employers and stand up and ask for the software written during employment to be made copyleft under a free software license (like the gpl v3) Richard Stallman was his usual self, but of course when Bradley mentioned Linux he really just meant Linux the kernel. [2]State of the copyleft union — GNU MediaGoblin State of the copyleft union — GNU MediaGoblin There wouldn't really be any reason to hide that video. People who may not have joined the FSF or gone to Libre Planet could still benefit from it if they care about free software and write software at work. Also, maybe some people thought it was defeatist, or thought that maybe copyleft was not necessarily the best tool to enforce software freedom. I think the points made in this talk put an end more or less to that idea. It was certainly not a lay down and bsd everything talk. References Visible links 1. mailto:stationa...@gmail.com 2. https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/state-of-the-copyleft-union/ Hidden links: 4. https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/state-of-the-copyleft-union/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] FSF has begun a search for a new president
RMS did get paid for making speeches, even though he didn't get a president's salary. I could easily imagine someone doing it for free. People will do anything for fame and notoriety, as long as money is coming from somewhere else to pay for that person's living expenses. On Friday, September 20, 2019, 4:29:53 PM EDT, Dmitry Alexandrov <321...@gmail.com> wrote: "J.B. Nicholson" <[1]j...@forestfield.org> wrote: > 2. the FSF has begun a search for a new president. (per [2]https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns), > It would be a shame if the FSF made a compromise where they favored sating a desire for identity politics… > I hope they'll pick someone who is deeply informed about free software, and who possesses a sharp, critical stance in defense of software freedom. As far as I am aware, for the years of Dr. Stallman’s presidency, that position was a full-time occupation with a salary of round 0 (zero) dollars per month (or per year, I am not sure :-). Where should they search for a person of that kind to fill such a vacancy, I wonder. Or is this practice subject to change? ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [3]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:j...@forestfield.org 2. https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns 3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
