Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:12:56 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:28:53
From: neil barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Wow...  Now I'm really curious as to how many other people on the list 
have had problems damaging their Libby after putting 9.5mm drives in their 
early 8.5mm HDD systems after removing the spacers!

Is Pres in the minority here folks?  Or have their been a lot of other 
cases of this problem posted to the list that I've missed?


I've had two (50) mobos, and seen three or four others, which have failed 
with main ram problems. Two of those I have ben able to fix, the others 
were write-offs. I've also seen - and fixed - one mobo with a video ram 
fault. The video ram is at the opposite end of the board, above where the 
PCMCIA cards plug in.

Every one of the faulty mobos I've seen has had a disc other than the 
original. This doesn't mean I don't swap my 20G (working) and 
6G(experimental OS etc) drives around fairly often, it just means I'm very 
careful when I do it.

It appears that the mobo is more flexible than is good for it. It also 
appears that the 50 case and the 70 case (which had the fatter drive) are 
*not* identical to each other, although they will work on either machine 
with a little filing around the hole where the expansion port pokes 
through.

So is it possible that in the majority of cases where a Lib has gone belly 
up by installing a 9.5mm HDD, it was not because HDD spacers were removed 
and a 9.5mm drive installed per se, but because of some accidental physical 
damage done to the system in the process of installing the HDD?  I note that 
you didn't say you found any damage done to a Lib that had a 9.5mm HDD 
carefully and properly installed Neil.

Matt

(Do I need to be more concise?  I received what appeared to be a complaint 
to that affect in an anonymous email.)

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Re: [LIB] Mobo damage from thickies or not?

2002-03-02 Thread T i m

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:21:32 +
From: T i m [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Mobo damage from thickies or not?

Hi Matt,

Matthew Hanson wrote:


 [T] I know (most) things expand when they get hot but I don't think a 9.5mm
 drive would be able to expand enough on it's own to do any damage if the
 fit was 'reasonable' in the first place would it? Of course, the rest of
 the Libby would be expanding / shrinking at the same time and could make
 matters worse?

 I was thinking more in terms of there being a little less room for the 9.5mm
 drive, and if a particular HDD gets hotter than most... could its closer
 proximity to the MB cause overheating problems?

[T] Hmm, that's a good point .. heat is not a good thing inside an enclosed
place like a Libby ..but I'm pretty sure heat wouldn't do the damage folk are
mentioning. Maybe the spacers the there for several reasons?

  Do HDDs have overheating
 problems?

[T] Well, some I have seen (whisper .. on desktop drives ..) where it mentions
about fitting the drive in such a way to allow heat to conduct to the
surrounding chassis? ..  My mate came home yesterday to find his newish (full)
80G drive had committed suicide! (no implication on the cause here ..)



   Though I'm great at missing huge things that are taped to my nose.
 
 [T] Sometimes we can't see the Wood for the trees though eh?

 That can be me! :-)

[T] That can be most of us!



 Matt


T i m




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:28:19 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:38:04 +
From: T i m [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi Neil,

neil barnes wrote:

 It appears that the mobo is more flexible than is good for it. It also 
appears that the 50 case and the 70 case (which had the fatter drive) are 
*not* identical to each other, although they will work on either machine 
with a little filing around the hole where the expansion port pokes 
through. 
 
  Neil
 

[T] So, would I be right in assuming I would be 'safer' finding myself an 
8.x mm drive and fitting that, rather than risking my new 'baby' on a big 
fat nasty board cracking 9.5mm monster?

I think what Neil is saying, is that it may be a faulty PROCESS of 
installating the HDD that was responsible for those Libs to have failed...  
and that the failure was not due to the drive itself.  He said all the dead 
Libs that he worked on had had their HDDs replaced at some point.  But from 
his description of the problems he encountered, it seems unlikely that they 
would have been caused by proper installation of either a larger (in MB) 
8.5mm, or 9.5mm HDD.

My bets are that there have been as many dead Libs that had bigger 8.5mm 
HDDs newly installed in them as their were dead Libs with newly installed 
9.5mm HDDs.

Matt


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Re: FAQ TIME! (was: Re: [LIB] So who makes an 8.4mm drive?)

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:38:09 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FAQ TIME! (was: Re: [LIB] So who makes an 8.4mm drive?)

Tim,

I think Tom may have been thinking that the issue we were discussing was how 
to install a 9.5mm HDD.  That's been discussed a lot.

But I don't recall (not that there wasn't) reading much discussion about 
whether or not a proper installation of the larger 9.5mm HDD has ever been 
documented as being the primary cause of a Libretto to die.

Correct me if I'm wrong here Tom.

Matt



From: T i m [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Libretto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Libretto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FAQ TIME! (was: Re: [LIB] So who makes an 8.4mm drive?)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:02:25 -0800

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:53:53 +
From: T i m [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FAQ TIME! (was: Re: [LIB] So who makes an 8.4mm drive?)

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply ..

Tom Stangl, VFAQman wrote:

  Subject: FAQ TIME! (was: Re: [LIB] So who makes an 8.4mm drive?)
 
  This has been covered TONS of times in the Archives.

[T] Ok ...

 
 
  Tim, I really suggest you read through the Archives before rehashing 
questions
  that have been covered s many times before.

[T] Well, I sorta have? I have found *some* answers, questions I didn't 
know I was
going to ask and files etc but, like any 'published' information it's 
potentially
'out-of-date' the second it hits the page? I read the archives, draw a 
conclusion,
go off and find the item mentioned only to be told later by the (active 
list) Oh,
we don't use them any more!? ;-(  I ride a motorcycle and hence subscribe 
to
several biking lists and we often see the same old what is the best tyre 
for this
bike etc question popping up. The answers are often different each time as 
tyres
become obsolete, new models introduced and fashions change. The 'archives' 
rarely
reflect these particular changes?

 
 
  Also, go here - http://www.silverace.com/libretto/
  Read it all.  It will really help, it helped me in the beginning.

[T] Been there, read most of that! (It is a brilliant site though ..) now
*understanding* or *remembering* it are a different matter Tom! ;-)

 
 
  But to answer your question, 9.5mm drives fit FINE in the 50/70 and 
100/110, you
  just have to remove some small spacers from inside the machine, or you 
might
  stress the mb and break the RAM solder joints free.

[T] Hmm, there seems (from the list) to be a little undercurrent of folk 
with dead
Libbys who supposedly removed the spacers etc though Tom ..? (My reserved,
non-risk-taking, Engineer, Virgo nature says buy an 8G 8.Xmm drive...)

All the best and thanks again Tom 

T i m

 




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:42:45 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:54:11 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you remove the plastic sheet on the bottom and the spacers you should be 
fine. You'll definitely be fine if the hard drive is loose enough for a 
drop fit.

Neil.. As I recall, you wrote that this large, dark, mylar-like sheet of 
plastic should be re-fastened after removing the blue adhesive and clear 
plastic spacers... No?

Matt




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread neil barnes

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:55:00
From: neil barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:42:45 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:54:11 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you remove the plastic sheet on the bottom and the spacers you should 
be
fine. You'll definitely be fine if the hard drive is loose enough for a
drop fit.

Neil.. As I recall, you wrote that this large, dark, mylar-like sheet of
plastic should be re-fastened after removing the blue adhesive and clear
plastic spacers... No?


Sorry - wasn't clear. Yes. Remove the sheet to get at the spacers, put it 
back afterwards, making sure it's not crinkled, stood proud on lumps of 
fixing etc.

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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Raymond

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:02:03 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

At 12:51 AM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:42:45 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:54:11 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you remove the plastic sheet on the bottom and the spacers you should be fine. 
You'll definitely be fine if the hard drive is loose enough for a drop fit.

Neil.. As I recall, you wrote that this large, dark, mylar-like sheet of plastic 
should be re-fastened after removing the blue adhesive and clear plastic spacers... 
No?

I put it back simply because I couldn't be bothered removing the adhesive and I didn't 
want the hdd sticking to the case ... I'll probably remove it in my L100 because its 
getting too hot so it seems like better conduction through to the base would be useful 
...

- Raymond

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Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

2002-03-02 Thread Raymond

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:59:43 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

At 05:55 AM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:51:21 -
From: Jon C \(spam\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

Just a quick note; the site below has Libretto 50/70/100/110 batteries in stock..

http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepages/laptopbatteries.asp

There's a US$ site too and Robin (a great bloke who's been *very* helpful in finding 
me a digital camera battery) will ship anywhere.  And you'll get a prepaid label to 
send it back if you're not happy... 

I dunno how much faith I'd put in a battery place that lists a single battery model 
for the 75CT, 100CT and 110CT laptops given that the former battery has a completely 
different shape to the latter 2 ...


- Raymond

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Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

2002-03-02 Thread Raymond

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:34:14 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

Oh and BTW

At 06:25 AM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:20 -
From: Jon C \(spam\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

...

One 'narked Jon.

narked? Whats that supposed to mean in this context?

One confused Raymond.

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[LIB] Fitting 9.5mm drives in L50-50 (was: Best VFM drive ...)

2002-03-02 Thread Michael Miller

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:19:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Fitting 9.5mm drives in L50-50 (was: Best VFM drive ...)

 [careful phrasing alert] I cannot comment on the way in which other people 
 may have fitted the harddrives :) but I have never seen the main memory 
 failed on a machine which has had the original drive never changed. I have 
 had three machines which are working well all of which have had at least one 
 - and for my current machine, probably one per week - hard disk change.

May I advance another hypothesis?  The usual instructions say open up
the Lib so you're sure to remove all the spacers ...  Having done that, I
recall that the process of separating the case was rougher than I would
have liked.  Could it be that *this* part of the procedure can result in
enough flexing of the motherboard to cause damage?

Mike




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:14:33 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:27:04 +
From: T i m [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Matthew Hanson wrote:

 
 
  (Do I need to be more concise?  snip.)

[T] About what Matt?  ;-)

Heh... that was the question I asked my 'admirer'. :-)

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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Matthew Hanson

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:35:43 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:51:18
From: neil barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So is it possible that in the majority of cases where a Lib has gone belly 
up by installing a 9.5mm HDD, it was not because HDD spacers were removed 
and a 9.5mm drive installed per se, but because of some accidental 
physical damage done to the system in the process of installing the HDD?  
I note that you didn't say you found any damage done to a Lib that had a 
9.5mm HDD carefully and properly installed Neil.

Matt

[careful phrasing alert] I cannot comment on the way in which other people 
may have fitted the harddrives :) but I have never seen the main memory 
failed on a machine which has had the original drive never changed. I have 
had three machines which are working well all of which have had at least 
one - and for my current machine, probably one per week - hard disk 
change.

My feeling is that the risk involved in changing to a 9.5mm disk - provided 
the spacers are properly removed and normal care is taken - is probably 
less than the risk of tripping over the power cable and pulling the lib off 
a table.

Neil

Congratulations Mr. Barnacle.  You have now earned an advanced graduate 
degree in Libretterati Diplomacy!





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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Raymond

Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:12:50 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

At 01:26 PM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:19:45 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:02:03 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you remove the plastic sheet on the bottom and the spacers you should be fine. 
You'll definitely be fine if the hard drive is loose enough for a drop fit. 

Neil.. As I recall, you wrote that this large, dark, mylar-like sheet of plastic 
should be re-fastened after removing the blue adhesive and clear plastic spacers... 
No? 

I put it back simply because I couldn't be bothered removing the adhesive and I 
didn't want the hdd sticking to the case ... I'll probably remove it in my L100 
because its getting too hot so it seems like better conduction through to the base 
would be useful ...

Wasn't it you, or was it someone else who has expressed concern about the exposed 
circuit board having the possibilty of shorting out against the exposed metal surface 
left after removing that plastic sheet?  That turned out to be the reason I decided 
to re-fasten mine even before Neil suggested it.

Nah it was someone else who responded to one of my posts who forgot that that side of 
the hdd is metal ... can't remember who though.

- Raymond

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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Pres Waterman

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:43:15 -0500
From: Pres Waterman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

 tonight.  Though I saw a couple posts that seemed to indicate that their
 Libs were damaged in the process of inserting and removing the drive.
I'll
 look a bit more, but I wonder what the percentage of successes to failures
 is over all is for people who didn't physically damage anything in the
 process of installing the drive.  I'd guess that the percentage of
successes
 must be relatively high.

No! STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

The damage does not happen right away. You sliiide a drive in, use
it happily and call it a day. A year later you have a dead motherboard and a
really STUPID look on your face.

This is REAL. I have seen it. Cut it out. Break your own G-damned Libretto.
Don't tell others the percentage of success is relatively high.

You are relatively high.

Thanks

Pres Waterman, W2PW
c/o 112 Motors, LLC
Long Island Ford, Kia and Used Dealer

GO BILLS!




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Raymond

Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:21:47 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

At 01:47 PM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:39:47 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:56:48 +0800
From: Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

At 12:21 AM 2/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:12:56 +
From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

...

Matt

(Do I need to be more concise?  I received what appeared to be a complaint to that 
affect in an anonymous email.)

Bah ... look at my posts, they hardly qualify for concise!

- Raymond

Heh...  I was wondering if you may have been another lucky recipient of such a 
distinguished and learned critique Raymond...  ;-P

Nah I've never had one personally ... I've had at least one tell me in the list I was 
writing novels though! ;-)

- Raymond

---


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Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

2002-03-02 Thread Pres Waterman

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:57:07 -0500
From: Pres Waterman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] UK stockist of 50/70/100/110 batteries

 http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepages/laptopbatteries.asp


They also spec the same battery for the Libretto 75, 100, 110

I *am* correct that ther is no 75, right? I have a higher-then-normal 2,600
mAH capacity battery from http://www.sabaoceanic.com that says 75-100-110 as
well. I guess it's an aftermarket typo.

Thanks

Pres Waterman, W2PW
c/o 112 Motors, LLC
Long Island Ford, Kia and Used Dealer

GO BILLS!




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Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?

2002-03-02 Thread Pres Waterman

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:42:32 -0500
From: Pres Waterman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LIB] Best VFM drive for my 50CT please?


 Pres,

 Chill out.  Yours blew up, but there are a TON of people on this list that
have
 upgraded to 9.5mm drives without any problem whatsoever.

 You trying to make it sound like it happens to the majority?  THAT'S
spreading
 misinformation.


No, you tell a child a number of times not to play with fire and then let
them get a little burned and they will learn. But you do not let the child
tell all their friends how they just don't believe fire can hurt.

Fact: I put a 9.x mm drive in a ( Japanese ) L50. Quite some time later it
failed with characteristic symptoms that match others' experience.

Fact: I took that same L50 back to Toshiba Japan, who was just about to
replace the bad motheroard, more than a year out of warranty, until I opened
my big mouth and mentioned it failed after I
changed the HDD. They handed by piece of junk back to me.

What do they know that some of us just don't get?

Fact: I just recently got a second L50, WITH a non-original HDD that someone
else put in, failed in exactly the same way. It is going to Neil for a
look-see but I am sure it's terminal.

Fact: Neil and I are some of the most experienced non-Japanese Libretto
users on the planet. Neil has stated that he has never seen a fried Libretto
with an original HDD, and every fried Libretto he has seen has had a changed
HDD.

So, tell me, what don't I get about this? What doesn't Matthew and Raymond
and everyone else on this list trying to put 9.5mm of matter in an 8.45mm
hole GET?

PUT A PROPER SIZED HDD IN- THEY EXIST!

Thanks

Pres Waterman, W2PW
c/o 112 Motors, LLC
Long Island Ford, Kia and Used Dealer

GO BILLS!




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