[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-03-01 Thread Charles F. Munat 

Oh, yeah! I'll see if my clone has any free time... :-)

Seriously though, I'm drowning right now, but if there's any way I can 
help that doesn't require too much time, I'll do it.

(I'm actually writing a couple of tiny Merb sites this week (I hope), in 
part to see how Merb differs, and in part because with luck I can 
offload a bit of work onto my brother, who is a Rails programmer.)

Chas.

David Pollak wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Jon Hancock  > wrote:
> 
> 
> David,
> I'm in the same boat.  I have an app I originally coded in Rails.
> Then I recoded it in Merb (much better, but now I'm unhappy with the
> merb-rails merger).  I'm testing out lift now to see about recoding it
> once again before the app gets too complex.  I also have another app
> or two to build and would like a single framework to grow with.
> 
> I'm not interested in ditching ruby/merb for performance reasons as
> merb is ok for my needs.  I'm interested in lift as I would like one
> "go forward" language (I've been tracking scala for a few years now)
> and am not compeltely happy with ruby or its frameworks.
> 
> Hope this list doesn't mind me peppering it with noob questions as I
> spend the next week or two seeing if I can quickly recode my app with
> lift.
> 
> 
> Keep peppering.  Perhaps you and Charles Munat could team up and write 
> the "Lift for recovering Rails developers guide".
>  
> 
> 
> thanks, Jon
> 
> On Feb 28, 6:21 pm, David Pollak  >
> wrote:
>  > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  > wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hi,
>  >
>  > > I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on
> Rails for a
>  > > while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
>  > > tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few
> things I
>  > > really like about Lift so far:
>  >
>  > > -  Out of the box Comet support
>  > > - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
>  > > - Being able to design without having to think of the
> request/response
>  > > cycle*
>  >
>  > > I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
>  > > how this will work in a production application running two or more
>  > > load balanced Lift instances of the same application.
>  >
>  > You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be
> tuned to
>  > work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that
> it's easy to
>  > have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific
> server that
>  > houses the Lift session.
>  >
>  > > The fact that
>  > > form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
>  > > dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
>  > > cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
>  > > scalability. Where is the session data stored?
>  >
>  > In the app server where the session was initialized.
>  >
>  > > If it is in-memory by
>  > > default, are there any best practices for sharing session data
> across
>  > > application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
>  > > balancer affinity?
>  >
>  > The latter.
>  >
>  > With all this being said, I have significant operational
> experience with the
>  > highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box
> running Lift
>  > could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're
> expecting to have
>  > significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is
> saturating
>  > a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  > David
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > > Ikai
>  >
>  > --
>  > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> 
>  > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> 
>  > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>  > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
> 
> > 

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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-03-01 Thread Jon Hancock 

if I can get a lift version of my app http://shellshadow.com done in a
few weeks, I could go for it.

I am very happy to release the source to the rails, merb, and lift
version so folks would have a real app to compare.

Jon

On Mar 1, 4:49 pm, David Pollak  wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Jon Hancock  wrote:
>
> > David,
> > I'm in the same boat.  I have an app I originally coded in Rails.
> > Then I recoded it in Merb (much better, but now I'm unhappy with the
> > merb-rails merger).  I'm testing out lift now to see about recoding it
> > once again before the app gets too complex.  I also have another app
> > or two to build and would like a single framework to grow with.
>
> > I'm not interested in ditching ruby/merb for performance reasons as
> > merb is ok for my needs.  I'm interested in lift as I would like one
> > "go forward" language (I've been tracking scala for a few years now)
> > and am not compeltely happy with ruby or its frameworks.
>
> > Hope this list doesn't mind me peppering it with noob questions as I
> > spend the next week or two seeing if I can quickly recode my app with
> > lift.
>
> Keep peppering.  Perhaps you and Charles Munat could team up and write the
> "Lift for recovering Rails developers guide".
>
>
>
>
>
> > thanks, Jon
>
> > On Feb 28, 6:21 pm, David Pollak 
> > wrote:
> > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  wrote:
>
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on Rails for a
> > > > while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
> > > > tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few things I
> > > > really like about Lift so far:
>
> > > > -  Out of the box Comet support
> > > > - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
> > > > - Being able to design without having to think of the request/response
> > > > cycle*
>
> > > > I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
> > > > how this will work in a production application running two or more
> > > > load balanced Lift instances of the same application.
>
> > > You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be tuned
> > to
> > > work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that it's easy
> > to
> > > have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific server that
> > > houses the Lift session.
>
> > > > The fact that
> > > > form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
> > > > dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
> > > > cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
> > > > scalability. Where is the session data stored?
>
> > > In the app server where the session was initialized.
>
> > > > If it is in-memory by
> > > > default, are there any best practices for sharing session data across
> > > > application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
> > > > balancer affinity?
>
> > > The latter.
>
> > > With all this being said, I have significant operational experience with
> > the
> > > highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box running Lift
> > > could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're expecting to
> > have
> > > significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is
> > saturating
> > > a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > David
>
> > > > Ikai
>
> > > --
> > > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> > > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> > > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> > > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp

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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-03-01 Thread David Pollak 
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Jon Hancock  wrote:

>
> David,
> I'm in the same boat.  I have an app I originally coded in Rails.
> Then I recoded it in Merb (much better, but now I'm unhappy with the
> merb-rails merger).  I'm testing out lift now to see about recoding it
> once again before the app gets too complex.  I also have another app
> or two to build and would like a single framework to grow with.
>
> I'm not interested in ditching ruby/merb for performance reasons as
> merb is ok for my needs.  I'm interested in lift as I would like one
> "go forward" language (I've been tracking scala for a few years now)
> and am not compeltely happy with ruby or its frameworks.
>
> Hope this list doesn't mind me peppering it with noob questions as I
> spend the next week or two seeing if I can quickly recode my app with
> lift.
>

Keep peppering.  Perhaps you and Charles Munat could team up and write the
"Lift for recovering Rails developers guide".


>
> thanks, Jon
>
> On Feb 28, 6:21 pm, David Pollak 
> wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on Rails for a
> > > while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
> > > tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few things I
> > > really like about Lift so far:
> >
> > > -  Out of the box Comet support
> > > - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
> > > - Being able to design without having to think of the request/response
> > > cycle*
> >
> > > I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
> > > how this will work in a production application running two or more
> > > load balanced Lift instances of the same application.
> >
> > You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be tuned
> to
> > work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that it's easy
> to
> > have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific server that
> > houses the Lift session.
> >
> > > The fact that
> > > form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
> > > dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
> > > cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
> > > scalability. Where is the session data stored?
> >
> > In the app server where the session was initialized.
> >
> > > If it is in-memory by
> > > default, are there any best practices for sharing session data across
> > > application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
> > > balancer affinity?
> >
> > The latter.
> >
> > With all this being said, I have significant operational experience with
> the
> > highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box running Lift
> > could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're expecting to
> have
> > significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is
> saturating
> > a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ikai
> >
> > --
> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
> >
>


-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-03-01 Thread Jon Hancock 

David,
I'm in the same boat.  I have an app I originally coded in Rails.
Then I recoded it in Merb (much better, but now I'm unhappy with the
merb-rails merger).  I'm testing out lift now to see about recoding it
once again before the app gets too complex.  I also have another app
or two to build and would like a single framework to grow with.

I'm not interested in ditching ruby/merb for performance reasons as
merb is ok for my needs.  I'm interested in lift as I would like one
"go forward" language (I've been tracking scala for a few years now)
and am not compeltely happy with ruby or its frameworks.

Hope this list doesn't mind me peppering it with noob questions as I
spend the next week or two seeing if I can quickly recode my app with
lift.

thanks, Jon

On Feb 28, 6:21 pm, David Pollak 
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on Rails for a
> > while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
> > tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few things I
> > really like about Lift so far:
>
> > -  Out of the box Comet support
> > - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
> > - Being able to design without having to think of the request/response
> > cycle*
>
> > I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
> > how this will work in a production application running two or more
> > load balanced Lift instances of the same application.
>
> You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be tuned to
> work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that it's easy to
> have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific server that
> houses the Lift session.
>
> > The fact that
> > form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
> > dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
> > cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
> > scalability. Where is the session data stored?
>
> In the app server where the session was initialized.
>
> > If it is in-memory by
> > default, are there any best practices for sharing session data across
> > application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
> > balancer affinity?
>
> The latter.
>
> With all this being said, I have significant operational experience with the
> highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box running Lift
> could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're expecting to have
> significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is saturating
> a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
> > Ikai
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp

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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-03-01 Thread Ikai Lan 
Thanks for the answer David. There's a second implication to this - having a
hot backup is nice in case an app server goes down.
Ikai

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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-02-28 Thread marius d. 



On Mar 1, 2:21 am, David Pollak  wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on Rails for a
> > while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
> > tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few things I
> > really like about Lift so far:
>
> > -  Out of the box Comet support
> > - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
> > - Being able to design without having to think of the request/response
> > cycle*
>
> > I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
> > how this will work in a production application running two or more
> > load balanced Lift instances of the same application.
>
> You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be tuned to
> work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that it's easy to
> have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific server that
> houses the Lift session.
>
> > The fact that
> > form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
> > dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
> > cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
> > scalability. Where is the session data stored?
>
> In the app server where the session was initialized.
>
> > If it is in-memory by
> > default, are there any best practices for sharing session data across
> > application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
> > balancer affinity?
>
> The latter.
>
> With all this being said, I have significant operational experience with the
> highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box running Lift
> could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're expecting to have
> significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is saturating
> a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.

If I may I would add ... unless you want redundancy.

>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
> > Ikai
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
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[Lift] Re: Lift newbie - Horizontal scaling of Lift servers

2009-02-28 Thread David Pollak 
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Ikai Lan  wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking to learn Lift coming from working with Ruby on Rails for a
> while and I've been voraciously consuming the documentation and
> tutorials that are available on the internet. There are a few things I
> really like about Lift so far:
>
> -  Out of the box Comet support
> - Rapid development (incremental compiles are awesome)
> - Being able to design without having to think of the request/response
> cycle*
>
> I'm putting an asterisk on the last item because I'm a bit confused
> how this will work in a production application running two or more
> load balanced Lift instances of the same application.


You need a load balancer that's either JSESSIONID aware or can be tuned to
work with Lift's feature that re-writes URLs in such a way that it's easy to
have a load balancer send the requests back to the specific server that
houses the Lift session.


> The fact that
> form processing can happen without inspecting GET/POST params or
> dealing with data that needs to life longer than a standard request
> cycle is pretty neat, but it raises questions about horizontal
> scalability. Where is the session data stored?


In the app server where the session was initialized.


> If it is in-memory by
> default, are there any best practices for sharing session data across
> application servers, or is the recommended solution to use load
> balancer affinity?


The latter.

With all this being said, I have significant operational experience with the
highest volume RoR powered site.  A quad-core Intel/AMD box running Lift
could have handled all of its traffic.  So, unless you're expecting to have
significantly more traffic than Twitter... unless you're site is saturating
a gigabit ethernet card, you can run it on a single server with Lift.

Thanks,

David

>
>
> Ikai
>
> >
>


-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

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