Re: parser variables persist beyond { } scope

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

Werner LEMBERG wrote:

  It's only for some exotic tweaks that you might want to change
  the fraction to something else than the default 15/16...
 
 Hmm.  Section 1.2.6 in notation.pdf says that 3/4 is the default
 value for \afterGrace.  A documentation bug?

Nope. Honest mistake.
- Mark



  


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Re: 2.13.4 release soon?

2009-08-07 Thread Trevor Daniels


Graham wrote Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:53 PM


Sorry, not this time.  The purpose of the unstable releases is to
aid the development effort; it doesn't make sense to hold Trevor
and Mark back just because the doc build is in flux.


The MinGW build that Neil made is fine, Graham, so
there's no need to rush on our behalf, but thanks
anyway.

Trevor



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Re: parser variables persist beyond { } scope

2009-08-07 Thread Reinhold Kainhofer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Freitag, 7. August 2009 07:52:53 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:
  It's only for some exotic tweaks that you might want to change the
  fraction to something else than the default 15/16...

 Hmm.  Section 1.2.6 in notation.pdf says that 3/4 is the default value
 for \afterGrace.  A documentation bug?

No, a bug in my brain... The default is 6/8, but out examples in this thread 
were always talking about 15/6, so I mixed them up (but as I said, I never had 
any need to tweak this.

Cheers,
Reinhold

- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial  Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFKe+MSTqjEwhXvPN0RAhrqAJ0fCg4ZwOhrfykB8tVQhL1twbBG0QCfXijD
Xq25q/iIQvRxgVEHmMzQ2kE=
=q9hx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: PATCH: Improved tablature support

2009-08-07 Thread Carl Sorensen



On 8/5/09 7:19 AM, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote:

 
 
 Carl Sorensen wrote Wednesday, August 05, 2009 1:42 PM
 
 If we decide to use this same function for the general case of
 switching to
 a cross-shaped notehead, then we will redefine it to either
 crossHead or
 xHead, but we will still keep deadNote (the semantically correct
 term for
 guitar tablature) as an alias for xHead.
 
 In the meantime, we can move forward on tablature.
 
 As I see it, the current decision causes problems only if we were
 to change
 to xHead in the future and eliminate deadNote.  And I see no plans
 in the
 future to eliminate deadNote.
 
 Does this make sense to you?
 
 Thanks Carl and Marc for the explanations.
 
 I think it was a pity that the groundwork
 for a more generic approach was not laid
 down right away, so we could have easily
 added the aliases for all the other uses
 of crossheads, but I accept that no great
 harm has been done by this parochial approach,
 as long as future developers don't forget
 this can be easily changed.  Now it's documented
 here there is less chance of that, but it
 would be even better if you could do it
 while it's fresh in your mind :)

The generic approach has now been pushed to git

247f0b6d46fd8f3253a99f95a70ce14345daa5f9

There's a generic styledNoteHeads music function that applies a note style
to music whether or not it's in a chord construct.

deadNotes and palmMute have been redefined to use the generic functions
instead of a specific function.

 
 I'd be happy to document it, add aliases,
 and flesh out NR 2 wherever crossheads are
 used.

Please feel free to add aliases and flesh out NR 2 wherever special music
heads are used (crosses is one example; harmonics might be another).

But we're hoping to get one of the members of the tablature user community
to develop the tablature documentation once 2.13.4 is released.

Thanks,

Carl



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Re: PATCH: Improved tablature support

2009-08-07 Thread Trevor Daniels


Carl Sorensen wrote Friday, August 07, 2009 2:49 PM


On 8/5/09 7:19 AM, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote:


Carl Sorensen wrote Wednesday, August 05, 2009 1:42 PM


If we decide to use this same function for the general case of
switching to
a cross-shaped notehead, then we will redefine it to either
crossHead or
xHead, but we will still keep deadNote (the semantically correct
term for
guitar tablature) as an alias for xHead.


I think it was a pity that the groundwork
for a more generic approach was not laid
down right away, so we could have easily
added the aliases for all the other uses
of crossheads


The generic approach has now been pushed to git

247f0b6d46fd8f3253a99f95a70ce14345daa5f9

There's a generic styledNoteHeads music function that applies a 
note style

to music whether or not it's in a chord construct.

deadNotes and palmMute have been redefined to use the generic 
functions

instead of a specific function.


Carl, that's great!  Thanks!  It would have
taken me a month to work out how to do that.


I'd be happy to document it, add aliases,
and flesh out NR 2 wherever crossheads are
used.


Please feel free to add aliases and flesh out NR 2 wherever 
special music
heads are used (crosses is one example; harmonics might be 
another).


Fine.  The changes are all in Scheme so I can
easily update my copy of Lily without waiting
for a GUB release.  I've got family commitments
over the weekend, but I'll get to this next week.

But we're hoping to get one of the members of the tablature user 
community

to develop the tablature documentation once 2.13.4 is released.


OK - I'll leave tabs alone.

Trevor



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Re: conditionally eliminating lyric extender

2009-08-07 Thread Trevor Daniels


Hi Kieren,


I'm not sure I understand the need for this.
I would not normally use a lyric extender
unless the syllable had an extended duration
over several notes or was sung to a long note.
This occurs far less frequently than a 2-note melisma.

Do you attach lyric extenders unconditionally
to every syllable sung to a melisma?


Yes:

1. According to the engraving histories/guides I've read, there 
should be an extender after *every* [final] melisma syllable


Aah - final syllable - yes!  And it's needed whether it's a melisma
or not if the final note is long, as it often is.

regardless of how short (including negative) that extender line 
would  end up being.


2. One can't possibly know in advance how wide the final engraved 
note spacing will be relative to the length of the lyric 
syllable —  hence one should *always* include extenders so that 
Lilypond can DTRT  depending on the spacing requirements [of 
different editions,  alternative system breaks, etc.].


OK, I agree your automatic length calculation would be a nice 
feature,

with negative lengths resulting in no extender being printed.

this seems to be the standard practice in the vocal scores I'm 
familiar with.


Recently, I've seen a lot of scores that don't use extenders 
*ever*... but I think this is a horrible practice which makes 
sight- singing more difficult.


Agreed.  They are definitely helpful when the duration of the 
note(s) in
the score is significantly longer than the associated printed 
syllable.


Trevor



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Re: the separate, but integrated website proposal

2009-08-07 Thread Till Paala

Hello Graham and John

Graham Percival schrieb:

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 02:53:51PM +0200, John Mandereau wrote:
  

Le mardi 04 août 2009 à 05:20 -0700, Graham Percival a écrit :



Eh?  Why on earth would the Examples change for different
languages?  IIRC, we currently have French lyrics, Italian musical
terms, German titles, Italian lyrics, an English instrument name,
Italian instrument names, a Hungarian (?) title, Italian titles,
some English lyrics and directions... if there was ever part of
the docs that we could say yeah, we really don't need any
translations here, it would be the pngs on
Introduction-Examples.
  

I was thinking on annotated SVG examples, which should be created for
the essay BTW -- I believed Till had taken this over a while ago, but I
never got news about this.



Do you mean the annotated SVGs in web-Introduction-Text input?

  
I read this only today, the volume on -devel ist just a bit too strong 
for my present pace.


I had had a look at this svg generation a long time ago and was able to 
understand how svgs work as well as change a string inside of a file 
manually but I have no idea about the building scripts and so I didn't 
go further here. So far the web/switch/howto.html has svgs that ge 
translated in all languages. I thought it would be nice to have also 
other annotated examples especially in the essay to be translated 
according to language (e.g the notation examples that show how the 
software improved). But as said I gave up long ago neither have the time 
for it at the present moment.
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Re: the separate, but integrated website proposal

2009-08-07 Thread Till Paala

Francisco Vila schrieb:

2009/8/4 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca:
  

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 02:53:51PM +0200, John Mandereau wrote:


I was thinking on annotated SVG examples, which should be created for
the essay BTW -- I believed Till had taken this over a while ago, but I
never got news about this.
  

Do you mean the annotated SVGs in web-Introduction-Text input?



Daniel Tonda was who started translating the web page, he succeeded at
using Inkscape to build the translated
http://lilypond.org/web/switch/howto (the crash course) pages.

http://lilypond.org/web/graphics/annotate-example-1.es.png etc.
  

Oh great, is he on the list anymore?

Actually are these examples going to be integrated into the new web page?

Till
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Re: [PATCH] SVG backend: Output a single SVG file for each page

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 09:09:35AM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
 On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 11:44:17AM +0200, Valentin Villenave wrote:
  2009/8/6 Patrick McCarty pnor...@gmail.com:
   Any comments or suggestions are welcome.  This patch is one of the
   final steps towards producing SVG output that is both valid and
   compatible across all user agents I have tested (Inkscape, Firefox,
   etc.)
  
  Though single-page SVG output is a sensible default, perhaps we could
  keep the multi-page SVG output as a -d option just in case some users
  might indeed want to have one single output file?
 
 Just to clarify...
 
 I think it's okay to provide a -d option for a single-file output,
 instead of one-file-per-page output.

Sorry to bug you again, Valentin.  :-)

I'm starting to dislike this idea after all... At least for now.

SVG is a vector graphics format, so there should only be *one* page of
output per file.  If we want to provide an option to generate only one
SVG file, this option should apply to the PS, EPS, and PNG output as
well.  So this would be a different feature request, IMO.

For example, if you have a multiple-page score, and use the PS backend
to generate PNG output, you would get the following output if the file
is named `test.ly':

test-page1.png
test-page2.png
test-page3.png
etc...

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this, or the patch itself?

Thanks,
Patrick


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[PATCH v2] SVG backend: Output a single SVG file for each page

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
Hello,

I have updated my patchset on Rietveld:

  http://codereview.appspot.com/105045/show

The only changes from the previous patchset are updates for the
documentation and source code comments.

My plan is to eventually reinstate pageSet and page when they are
supported by Inkscape, etc.  But until then, I think this rewrite of
the SVG framework offers a more reasonable solution.

Please review and comment.

Thanks,
Patrick


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\context for named Staff

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

I've always wondered about this. Is there a way?

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-08/msg00173.html

- Mark



  


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magnification-font-size not documented

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

If anyone has time, I think the magnification-font-size procedure
(last lines of font.scm) should be documented, probably here:

NR 1.7.1 Selecting notation font size
NR 5.4.4 Distances and measurements

- Mark



  


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Re: Unable to use git

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

Huh. I had 3 open sessions visible when I logged in to savannah:
https://savannah.gnu.org/my/admin/sessions.php

The last 2 had a trash can icon, I clicked there and deleted them.
But the first says Current session. I can't delete it from
savannah. I assume these were sessions that terminated improperly,
but how can I close the session that savannah thinks I'm still
using?

- Mark



  


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HTML formatting for *all* LSR snippets descriptions?

2009-08-07 Thread Valentin Villenave
Greetings everybody,

Currently, the LSR offers three options for snippets descriptions formatting:
 - Pure Unicode text
 - Full HTML
 - HTML fragment

`Full HTML' is not used in any snippet.
`HTML fragment' is used in most of the snippets; when generating the
doc-snippets, tags are automatically converted into texinfo:
code/code becomes @code{}, q/q becomes @qq{} (Seba has just
implemented this one, and I've rewritten all snippets accordingly, as
Werner asked).
`Pure Unicode' is sometimes used, but I think we shouldn't recommend
it any longer, since such (lack of) formatting doesn't meet our
documentation-writing guidelines. Besides, any user who want to write
plain text can do so in HTML too.

So, I'm thinking that we'd better junk these pseudo-options, and ask
Seba to make HTML formatting allowed in all snippet descriptions.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Valentin


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Re: HTML formatting for *all* LSR snippets descriptions?

2009-08-07 Thread Trevor Daniels


Valentin Villenave wrote Friday, August 07, 2009 9:45 PM

So, I'm thinking that we'd better junk these pseudo-options, and 
ask

Seba to make HTML formatting allowed in all snippet descriptions.

Thoughts?


Sounds reasonable.  Do we make it clear anywhere what html
markup is permitted in snippets destined for the docs (defined
by tags that are doc-related)?  Just so people don't use markup
that isn't going to be translated to texinfo.

Should any other markup be translated?
e.g
b/b to @strong{}
i/i to @emph{}
etc

Trevor



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SVG backend: Output a single SVG file for each page

2009-08-07 Thread joeneeman

lgtm. You can ignore my nitpicking if you disagree.


http://codereview.appspot.com/105045/diff/5/1005
File scm/framework-svg.scm (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/105045/diff/5/1005#newcode60
Line 60: (dump (ec 'svg))
Just a very very minor thing: IWBN to have eo and ec closer together.
For example, if svg-header just returned the alist of attributes then
you could write
(dump (eo (cons 'svg (svg-header paper)))
...
(dump (ec 'svg))
and it would be totally obvious that they match.

http://codereview.appspot.com/105045


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Re: [PATCH v2] SVG backend: Output a single SVG file for each page

2009-08-07 Thread Graham Percival
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 01:16:43PM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
 My plan is to eventually reinstate pageSet and page when they are
 supported by Inkscape, etc.  But until then, I think this rewrite of
 the SVG framework offers a more reasonable solution.

That sounds quite sensible.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Unable to use git

2009-08-07 Thread Graham Percival
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 01:44:42PM -0700, Mark Polesky wrote:
 
 The last 2 had a trash can icon, I clicked there and deleted them.
 But the first says Current session. I can't delete it from
 savannah. I assume these were sessions that terminated improperly,
 but how can I close the session that savannah thinks I'm still
 using?

I don't think it's possible to delete the current session -- you
need a session (i.e. to be logged in) to be viewing your account!

There's an option somewhere that says keep session active or
keep me logged in or something like that... you could try
changing that.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: HTML formatting for *all* LSR snippets descriptions?

2009-08-07 Thread Graham Percival
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 10:45:59PM +0200, Valentin Villenave wrote:
 So, I'm thinking that we'd better junk these pseudo-options, and ask
 Seba to make HTML formatting allowed in all snippet descriptions.

That makes sense.

 code/code becomes @code{}, q/q becomes @qq{} (Seba has just
 implemented this one, and I've rewritten all snippets accordingly, as
 Werner asked).

I was going to complain that q wasn't real html, but apparently
it is!  So why the mao do people use those silly ngr; (or
whatever) codes?!

... oh, I see.  It's not supported in IE.  Oh well.  :)


One small concern: q produces double-quotes, whereas our texinfo
@q{} produces single quotes.  I don't think it's a big deal, but
it might confuse somebody down the road.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: SVG backend: Output a single SVG file for each page

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:56 PM, joenee...@gmail.com wrote:
 lgtm. You can ignore my nitpicking if you disagree.


 http://codereview.appspot.com/105045/diff/5/1005
 File scm/framework-svg.scm (right):

 http://codereview.appspot.com/105045/diff/5/1005#newcode60
 Line 60: (dump (ec 'svg))
 Just a very very minor thing: IWBN to have eo and ec closer together.
 For example, if svg-header just returned the alist of attributes then
 you could write
 (dump (eo (cons 'svg (svg-header paper)))
 ...
 (dump (ec 'svg))
 and it would be totally obvious that they match.

Thanks, Joe.  I'll implement your suggestion and then push.

-Patrick


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the r in git pull -r

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

Regarding CG 1.2.2:
http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/contributor/Update-command.html

What does -r do in git pull -r? I don't see -r
listed as an option here:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-pull.html

- Mark



  


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Re: the r in git pull -r

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 07:34:01PM -0700, Mark Polesky wrote:
 
 Regarding CG 1.2.2:
 http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/contributor/Update-command.html
 
 What does -r do in git pull -r? I don't see -r
 listed as an option here:
 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-pull.html

It's undocumented, unfortunately.  :-)

The equivalent long option (that *is* documented) is

  git pull --rebase

I think it would be nice to have an entire CG section devoted to
explaining what rebasing means, but the git rebase man page
provides a reasonably good explanation in the meantime.

http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html


HTH,
Patrick


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Re: git hang-ups

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 06:45:38PM -0700, Graham Percival wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 06:18:20PM -0700, Mark Polesky wrote:
  
  Graham Percival wrote:
  
   If you do restart, try the
 git clone --depth 1 git://URL
   method.  (the CG will probably be updated to use this method in a
   week or so)
  
  it seems that this method is not suitable for developers with
  push access. You can't push from it -- see below.
 
 I've done it.
 
  --depth depth
  Create a shallow clone with a history truncated to the specified
  number of revisions. A shallow repository has a number of
  limitations (you cannot clone or fetch from it, nor push from nor
  into it), but is adequate if you are only interested in the recent
  history of a large project with a long history, and would want to
  send in fixes as patches.
 
 I read that before, but I tried it anyway.  git push was just
 fine.  I was using git 1.5.6.5.  I'll double-check in a few days,
 before changing the CG.

I've just tested git's shallow cloning feature.  It's pretty neat.
:-)

From what I can see, shallow clones would be okay for *casual*
contributors that are only sending patches based on the tip of master.

However, since git history is limited to the depth of the clone, then
shallow clones would not permit a developer to revert a commit from,
say, three weeks ago.

In other words, I think both the git clone and git clone --depth
methods should be included in the CG.


Thanks,
Patrick


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Re: git hang-ups

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Polesky

Patrick McCarty wrote:

 I've just tested git's shallow cloning feature.  It's pretty neat.
 :-)
 
 From what I can see, shallow clones would be okay for *casual*
 contributors that are only sending patches based on the tip of master.
 
 However, since git history is limited to the depth of the clone, then
 shallow clones would not permit a developer to revert a commit from,
 say, three weeks ago.
 
 In other words, I think both the git clone and git clone --depth
 methods should be included in the CG.

To me, it seems that a developer should be able to just stick to
shallow clones for everyday use. I assume that one could simply
increase the depth of the clone when needed. Is that true? I've never
needed to revert a three-week old commit, but if I needed to, I
figure I would just do another clone with a greater depth.

Does it work that way?
- Mark



  


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Re: git hang-ups

2009-08-07 Thread Patrick McCarty
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 08:39:16PM -0700, Mark Polesky wrote:
 
 Patrick McCarty wrote:
 
  I've just tested git's shallow cloning feature.  It's pretty neat.
  :-)
  
  From what I can see, shallow clones would be okay for *casual*
  contributors that are only sending patches based on the tip of master.
  
  However, since git history is limited to the depth of the clone, then
  shallow clones would not permit a developer to revert a commit from,
  say, three weeks ago.
  
  In other words, I think both the git clone and git clone --depth
  methods should be included in the CG.
 
 To me, it seems that a developer should be able to just stick to
 shallow clones for everyday use. I assume that one could simply
 increase the depth of the clone when needed. Is that true? I've never
 needed to revert a three-week old commit, but if I needed to, I
 figure I would just do another clone with a greater depth.
 
 Does it work that way?

I suppose that sounds reasonable, but if you reclone a repository
two or three times, each time with greater depth, then you'll probably
be using more bandwidth than if you had just downloaded the entire
repo initially (with git clone).

Really, it all depends on how developers use git history.

Personally, I browse git history on the command line quite often when
working with LilyPond.

A while back, I needed to find a change made to a certain file several
years ago (I don't remember which file).  To exacerbate the problem,
the file had been renamed once or twice.  But git makes this easy:

  $ git log -p --follow file.scm

Then I found the commit I was looking for very quickly.

But maybe others don't use git history quite as extensively.  I don't
know.


Thanks,
Patrick


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Re: the r in git pull -r

2009-08-07 Thread Andrew Hawryluk
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Patrick McCartypnor...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 07:34:01PM -0700, Mark Polesky wrote:

 Regarding CG 1.2.2:
 http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/contributor/Update-command.html

 What does -r do in git pull -r? I don't see -r
 listed as an option here:
 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-pull.html

 It's undocumented, unfortunately.  :-)

 The equivalent long option (that *is* documented) is

  git pull --rebase

 I think it would be nice to have an entire CG section devoted to
 explaining what rebasing means, but the git rebase man page
 provides a reasonably good explanation in the meantime.

 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html

I'm currently reading 'Pro Git' by Scott Chacon
(http://progit.org/book/) and it's a very nice introduction to using
git for version control. It might make a nice link from the CG.

Andrew


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Re: the separate, but integrated website proposal

2009-08-07 Thread Andrew Hawryluk
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Till Paalatill.ret...@gmx.de wrote:
 Hello Graham and John

 Graham Percival schrieb:

 On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 02:53:51PM +0200, John Mandereau wrote:


 Le mardi 04 août 2009 à 05:20 -0700, Graham Percival a écrit :


 Eh?  Why on earth would the Examples change for different
 languages?  IIRC, we currently have French lyrics, Italian musical
 terms, German titles, Italian lyrics, an English instrument name,
 Italian instrument names, a Hungarian (?) title, Italian titles,
 some English lyrics and directions... if there was ever part of
 the docs that we could say yeah, we really don't need any
 translations here, it would be the pngs on
 Introduction-Examples.


 I was thinking on annotated SVG examples, which should be created for
 the essay BTW -- I believed Till had taken this over a while ago, but I
 never got news about this.


 Do you mean the annotated SVGs in web-Introduction-Text input?



 I read this only today, the volume on -devel ist just a bit too strong for
 my present pace.

 I had had a look at this svg generation a long time ago and was able to
 understand how svgs work as well as change a string inside of a file
 manually but I have no idea about the building scripts and so I didn't go
 further here. So far the web/switch/howto.html has svgs that ge translated
 in all languages. I thought it would be nice to have also other annotated
 examples especially in the essay to be translated according to language (e.g
 the notation examples that show how the software improved). But as said I
 gave up long ago neither have the time for it at the present moment.

I can't speak for the future content of
http://lilypond.org/~graham/Text-input.html, but I will be working on
the next version of the essay (once the directory structure for images
in Documentation/ stabilizes), and it should not require any
bit-mapped text. Even in cases such as
http://lilypond.org/web/images/lily14-sarabande-correct.png, the
corrections could be highlighted visually without requiring that
descriptions occur in the image.

Andrew


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Re: HTML formatting for *all* LSR snippets descriptions?

2009-08-07 Thread Werner LEMBERG

 q/q becomes @qq{}
 
 One small concern: q produces double-quotes, whereas our texinfo
 @q{} produces single quotes.  I don't think it's a big deal, but
 it might confuse somebody down the road.

Read it again, Graham :-)


Werner


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