Re: keep git master clean

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Carl Sorensen" 




On 12/15/10 10:34 AM, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:



>
> The problem is that the snippet runs, but it generates an error (which 
> it's

> supposed to do).  But that error breaks the doc process.
>



Oops -- I was looking at the wrong regtest.



The problem with this regtest is that it creates no output, so there's no
.pdf to follow up on.  I'll try to get a regtest that will pass.



Thanks,



Carl



FWIW there are a number of regtests that generate no output - option-help.ly 
is an obvious example.  I found a couple of these because they cause a hung 
process in my regtest comparator.


--
Phil Holmes



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Re: keep git master clean

[John Mandereau]

Il giorno mer, 15/12/2010 alle 11.15 -0700, Carl Sorensen ha scritto:
> Graham Percival wrote:
> > For a symptomatic treatment, this particular case could be checked
> > with
> >   make test
> > instead of make doc.  That'd be 5-10 minutes instead of an hour.
> > Not ideal by any means, but better than nothing?
> 
> So can I consider it valid if I run make doc (not make doc-clean && make
> doc) and make test and both succeed?

IIRC, no if you have an old test build around (i.e. enough stuff in
out-test).  The problem is not so much about "test" or "doc" make
targets, but how clean the build is.  If you only want to check a
regtest, you can just

find input/regresssion -name out-www |xargs rm -rf

before making doc (this also cleans regtests from subdirs like
musicxml).

HTH,
John


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Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Bertrand Bordage]

Hello frogs (although I am French, I won't eat you) !

First of all, a huge thanks to the team for allowing us to freely use the
overall best music engraving software :p

I would like to report a tiny weakness I noticed.
It seems to me that LilyPond's standard fingerings for organ pedalboard are
incorrect.

Instead of this :

{ \clef F a4\ltoe a\lheel a\rtoe a\rheel }

We should have this:

{ \clef F a4_\rtoe a\lheel a\rtoe a^\lheel }

These fingerings are schematic representation of a foot. That's why they
shouldn't be directed according to their position (above or below the
staff). Fixed and opposite directions can also avoid any mistake when
reading quickly handwritten fingerings.
Especially since most publishers, I think, uses this behavior.
On the web I only found these examples, but I can assure you I saw this
notation in many other scores :

http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108056.jpg
http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108452.jpg
http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108452_midi.gif

I made a patch that removes the 2 useless definitions in
mf/feta-scripts.mfand update
scm/script.scm.

Regards,
Bertrand Bordage.
diff --git a/mf/feta-scripts.mf b/mf/feta-scripts.mf
index 35d09b9..5e94ed9 100644
--- a/mf/feta-scripts.mf
+++ b/mf/feta-scripts.mf
@@ -953,7 +953,7 @@ fet_beginchar ("Trill (`tr')", "trill");
 fet_endchar;
 
 
-def draw_heel =
+fet_beginchar ("heel", "pedalheel");
 	save radius, thickness;
 	save pat;
 	path pat;
@@ -986,22 +986,11 @@ def draw_heel =
 	   -- reverse pat xscaled -1 shifted (-feta_eps, 0)
 	   -- cycle;
 	fill pat;
-enddef;
-
-
-fet_beginchar ("left heel", "upedalheel");
-	draw_heel;
 	labels (1, 2, 3);
 fet_endchar;
 
 
-fet_beginchar ("right heel", "dpedalheel");
-	draw_heel;
-	y_mirror_char;
-fet_endchar;
-
-
-def draw_toe =
+fet_beginchar ("toe", "pedaltoe");
 	save ht, wd, thickness;
 
 	thickness := 1.5 linethickness;
@@ -1012,16 +1001,6 @@ def draw_toe =
 	set_char_box (wd#, wd#, 0, ht#);
 	draw_accent ((-h, -w), (0, w), thickness, 0.9);
 	currentpicture := currentpicture rotated -90;
-enddef;
-
-
-fet_beginchar ("left toe", "upedaltoe");
-	draw_toe;
-fet_endchar;
-
-
-fet_beginchar ("right toe", "dpedaltoe");
-	draw_toe;
 	y_mirror_char;
 fet_endchar;
 
diff --git a/scm/script.scm b/scm/script.scm
index 644c351..31dec42 100644
--- a/scm/script.scm
+++ b/scm/script.scm
@@ -123,7 +123,7 @@
 
 ("lheel"
  . (
-	(script-stencil . (feta . ("upedalheel" . "upedalheel")))
+	(script-stencil . (feta . ("pedalheel" . "pedalheel")))
 	(padding . 0.20)
 	(avoid-slur . around) ;guessing?
 	(direction . ,DOWN)))
@@ -141,7 +141,7 @@
 	(direction . ,UP)))
 ("ltoe"
  . (
-	(script-stencil . (feta . ("upedaltoe" . "upedaltoe")))
+	(script-stencil . (feta . ("pedaltoe" . "pedaltoe")))
 	(padding . 0.20)
 	(avoid-slur . around) ;guessing?
 	(direction . ,DOWN)))
@@ -218,13 +218,13 @@
 	(direction . ,UP)))
 ("rheel"
  . (
-	(script-stencil . (feta . ("dpedalheel" . "dpedalheel")))
+	(script-stencil . (feta . ("pedalheel" . "pedalheel")))
 	(padding . 0.20)
 	(avoid-slur . around) ;guessing?
 	(direction . ,UP)))
 ("rtoe"
  . (
-	(script-stencil . (feta . ("dpedaltoe" . "dpedaltoe")))
+	(script-stencil . (feta . ("pedaltoe" . "pedaltoe")))
 	(padding . 0.20)
 	(avoid-slur . around) ;guessing?
 	(direction . ,UP)))
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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 5:16 AM, "Bertrand Bordage"  wrote:

> Hello frogs (although I am French, I won't eat you) !
> 
> First of all, a huge thanks to the team for allowing us to freely use the
> overall best music engraving software :p
> 
> I would like to report a tiny weakness I noticed.
> It seems to me that LilyPond's standard fingerings for organ pedalboard are
> incorrect.
> 
> Instead of this :
> 
> { \clef F a4\ltoe a\lheel a\rtoe a\rheel }
> 
> We should have this:
> 
> { \clef F a4_\rtoe a\lheel a\rtoe a^\lheel }

It would be good to change the documentation to reflect this usage if it's
standard modern usage.

> 
> These fingerings are schematic representation of a foot. That's why they
> shouldn't be directed according to their position (above or below the staff).
> Fixed and opposite directions can also avoid any mistake when reading quickly
> handwritten fingerings.

> Especially since most publishers, I think, uses this behavior.

The problem with your patch is the idea that "most" publishers use this
behavior.  This means that some may not.  Therefore, we should not eliminate
the other notation from the font.


> On the web I only found these examples, but I can assure you I saw this
> notation in many other scores :
> 
> http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108056.jpg
> http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108452.jpg
> http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108452_midi.gif

This link shows that pedal indications have not always been the same:

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~eunjeonp/contents%204.htm

> 
> I made a patch that removes the 2 useless definitions in mf/feta-scripts.mf
> and update scm/script.scm.

Given that there is the possibility of using the inverted symbols, I don't
believe we should remove them from the font.  I don't think they're useless.
I think they're just non-standard.

I suppose that there is some argument for changing the names of the scripts,
e.g. from \rtoe to \stdtoe, and from \ltoe to \invtoe, with corresponding
changes to heel.  But this discussion should by part of the GLISS
discussion, to be held after 2.14 is out.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: lilybuntu 2

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 02:58:12PM +, Graham Percival wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 05:11:46AM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
> > If you want to test it, please feel free. Note that the lily-git.tcl
> > script is already in the user's home directory, ready to grab the
> > source code.
> 
> Actually, could people wait a few days?  I'd like to take this
> opportunity to have a thorough examination of our installation
> stuff.  I'd like to have one person try it and make notes about
> what worked and what didn't, then I'll tweak the docs, then a new
> person will try it, then I'll adjust the docs again, etc.

James has tried it and sent me comments, and I've made my first
revision of the process.  Unfortunately, the results aren't online
yet, but let's not panic.

Would any doc-savvy contributor like to try lilybuntu 2 and the
new version of the instructions?

1. Please rebuild the docs from current git master (or at least,
build the Contributor's Guide).

2. Start reading at 1.1 Help us.  Your "motivation" is that you
want to do "advanced tasks".  (if you are looking at a "help us"
page which does not list "advanced tasks", then you're looking at
old docs)

3. start following the instructions, and let me know where you end
up.  The goal is to have a streamlined set of instructions,
assuming a reasonably competent computer user but with no specific
knowledge of lilypond development (or development at all!).


I'm not totally sold on the revised docs; something feels a bit
"off" to me.  But I'll sleep on it and see what the next person
thinks about them.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: lilybuntu 2

[Jonathan Kulp]

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Valentin Villenave
 wrote:
>
> Jon, if you do make a new iso, then please feel free to create a
> torrent file as well, with the following URL as a tracker:
> http://torrents.lilynet.net/announce.php
>
> Then you can either upload the file or just send me the torrent, and
> the tracker will retrieve the file by itself :-)
>

I've made a new .iso file b/c I found 300 MB of tex docs I could
remove. The file is now 912 MB instead of 1.2G. Am about to start
uploading the iso, torrent, and checksum files.

Jon

-- 
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com

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scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Carl Sorensen]

I'm working on issue 1456, updating \overrideTimeSignatureSettings.

I've created a convert-ly rule, and tested it on my own files.

I ran

scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh

to update snippets and the docs.

It updated the snippets in input/regression

But it didn't update the snippets in Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely.

When I manually ran

convert-ly Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely > junkme

I could see that the file was properly converted.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:53:57AM -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> But it didn't update the snippets in Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely.

Mao.  Maybe this is an osx-incompatibility in find(1) ?  I thought
that I used posix find(1) options, but maybe I accidentally some
gnu options.

Go to your top source directory, and run:
  find Documentation/ -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms

I see 5 files.  Do you see anything?

if so, try this one:
  find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune \
  , -name '*.itely | grep rhythms

do you still see reasonable results?


I expect that one or both of those commands won't work on your
system, but I need to discover which one.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 9:26 AM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:53:57AM -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote:
>> But it didn't update the snippets in Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely.
> 
> Mao.  Maybe this is an osx-incompatibility in find(1) ?  I thought
> that I used posix find(1) options, but maybe I accidentally some
> gnu options.
> 
> Go to your top source directory, and run:
>   find Documentation/ -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
> 
> I see 5 files.  Do you see anything?

I see 7 files.

sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
Documentation//de/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//es/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//fr/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//out/rhythms.itely
Documentation//out-www/rhythms.itely
Documentation//snippets/rhythms-intro.itely

> 
> if so, try this one:
>   find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune \
>   , -name '*.itely | grep rhythms
> 
> do you still see reasonable results?


sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
-prune \
> , -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
find: ,: unknown option



It's the , in the find.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 09:52:07AM -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> 
> sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
> -prune \
> > , -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
> find: ,: unknown option
> 
> 
> 
> It's the , in the find.

Could you try replacing it with an -o ?  apparently -or is not
posix compliant, but it doesn't say that -o  is not posix.

find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune -o -name
'*.itely' | grep rhythms


... using -o instead of -or is one of the stupidest posixisms I've
heard of since "creat", but if it works I guess we just need to
grin and bear it.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Are engravers concerned by GLISS?

[Jean-Charles Malahieude]

Hi,

We have got a remark on the French list about a "bug" in the documentation:

The second sentence of the first paragraph of NR-5.1.4 (Modifying 
context plug-ins):

... the Voice context contains a Note_head_engraver and ...

According to the list of engravers and performers, it is called 
Note_heads_engraver. Here is the result of a git-grep:


Documentation/de/notation/changing-defaults.itely
 572 @code{Note_head_engraver}, der die Notenköpfe erstellt, und ein

Documentation/es/notation/changing-defaults.itely
 552 @code{Note_head_engraver} que crea las cabezas de nota y el contexto

Documentation/fr/essay/engraving.itely
1299 le module @code{Clef_engraver} fournit au @code{Note_head_engraver}

Documentation/fr/notation/changing-defaults.itely
 210 @code{Note_head_engraver}, chargé des têtes de notes et, dans le

Documentation/misc/CHANGES-1.1
1858 - removed Note_head_engraver

Documentation/notation/changing-defaults.itely
 571 @code{Note_head_engraver} and the @code{Staff} context contains a

lily/rest-engraver.cc
  46   Should merge with Note_head_engraver

As a matter of fact, amongst the 126 engravers and performers, only 5 
use a plural form:
Completion_heads_engraver, Dots_engraver (despite its fellow 
Dot_column_engraver), Drum_notes_engraver (despite its fellow 
Drum_note_performer), Note_heads_engraver and Tab_note_heads_engraver.


I'll take care of adding the missing "s" to the docs, but I think the 
naming might be worth some consistency with the 121 other.


my 0.1 nano

Jean-Charles


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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Bertrand Bordage]

>
> I suppose that there is some argument for changing the names of the
> scripts,
> e.g. from \rtoe to \stdtoe, and from \ltoe to \invtoe, with corresponding
> changes to heel.  But this discussion should by part of the GLISS
> discussion, to be held after 2.14 is out.
>

OK, I'll be back after 2.14 with this and a few other issues.
Or is there a way for me to help the development before the release of 2.14
?
I use Lilypond for 4 years and know programming in C++ and a little bit in
Scheme.
(I'm currently reading the contributor's guide to answer this question)
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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 12:41 PM, "Bertrand Bordage"  wrote:

>> I suppose that there is some argument for changing the names of the scripts,
>> e.g. from \rtoe to \stdtoe, and from \ltoe to \invtoe, with corresponding
>> changes to heel.  But this discussion should by part of the GLISS
>> discussion, to be held after 2.14 is out.
> 
> OK, I'll be back after 2.14 with this and a few other issues.
> Or is there a way for me to help the development before the release of 2.14 ?
> I use Lilypond for 4 years and know programming in C++ and a little bit in
> Scheme.
> (I'm currently reading the contributor's guide to answer this question)

There's always a way to help with the development before 2.14.  We'd love to
have your help!

You might search through the issues list for issues with the label "Frog".
Those are intended to be tasks that those with only limited LilyPond
development experience can tackle.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Trevor Daniels]

Graham, you wrote Thursday, December 16, 2010 5:25 PM



Could you try replacing it with an -o ?  apparently -or is not
posix compliant, but it doesn't say that -o  is not posix.

find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune -o -name
'*.itely' | grep rhythms


In case it's helpful, using the mingw command line under
Vista

 find Documentation/ -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms

produces

Documentation/de/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/es/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/fr/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/snippets/rhythms-intro.itely

 find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune \
 , -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms

simply returns with no output and

 find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune \
 -o -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms

produces

Documentation/de/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/es/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/fr/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

Replacing -o with -or gives the same output.

Is this as you would expect?

Trevor



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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 10:25 AM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 09:52:07AM -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote:
>> 
>> sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
>> -prune \
>>> , -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
>> find: ,: unknown option
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It's the , in the find.
> 
> Could you try replacing it with an -o ?  apparently -or is not
> posix compliant, but it doesn't say that -o  is not posix.
> 
> find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune -o -name
> '*.itely' | grep rhythms
> 
> 
> ... using -o instead of -or is one of the stupidest posixisms I've
> heard of since "creat", but if it works I guess we just need to
> grin and bear it.

Works great:

sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
-prune -o -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
Documentation//de/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//es/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//fr/notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//notation/rhythms.itely
Documentation//out/rhythms.itely
Documentation//out-www/rhythms.itely
Documentation//snippets/rhythms-intro.itely

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 6:04 AM, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On 12/16/10 5:16 AM, "Bertrand Bordage"  wrote:
> 
>> Hello frogs (although I am French, I won't eat you) !
>> 
>> First of all, a huge thanks to the team for allowing us to freely use the
>> overall best music engraving software :p
>> 
>> I would like to report a tiny weakness I noticed.
>> It seems to me that LilyPond's standard fingerings for organ pedalboard are
>> incorrect.
>> 
>> Instead of this :
>> 
>> { \clef F a4\ltoe a\lheel a\rtoe a\rheel }
>> 
>> We should have this:
>> 
>> { \clef F a4_\rtoe a\lheel a\rtoe a^\lheel }
> 
> It would be good to change the documentation to reflect this usage if it's
> standard modern usage.
> 

BTW, I have checked Read, Stone, and Ross.  All three are consistent with
Bertrand's report.  All three indicate that ^ and u should be used for toe
and heel, respectively, and that right foot indications go above the staff
and left foot indications go below the staff.

Only Stone lists the possibility of alternate markings of v and o for toe
and heel, and he lists it as o, not as an upside-down u.

Clearly, Bertrand is correct about modern usage.

Thanks,

Carl



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Re: Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[bordage . bertrand]

You might search through the issues list for issues with the label "Frog".
Those are intended to be tasks that those with only limited LilyPond
development experience can tackle.


:o) What a wonderful organization ! And GOP hasn't started yet !
I'll do my best on these issues !



BTW, I have checked Read, Stone, and Ross. All three are consistent with
Bertrand's report. All three indicate that ^ and u should be used for toe
and heel, respectively, and that right foot indications go above the staff
and left foot indications go below the staff.



Only Stone lists the possibility of alternate markings of v and o for toe
and heel, and he lists it as o, not as an upside-down u.


Do we know why, where and when the O was used ?
It's always interessing to dispose of several notations.

Speaking of several notations, I would also like to improve the parmesan  
font, starting with the brevis\longa noteheads (only 3 stafflinethickness  
of holeheight...). But it's another topic !
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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 3:17 PM, "bordage.bertr...@gmail.com"
 wrote:
> Do we know why, where and when the O was used ?
> It's always interessing to dispose of several notations.

Here's a page that recommends the use of v and o in "modern" notation.

http://www.filepie.us/?title=Modern_musical_symbols

Look under articulations to see the reference.

But I'm having trouble finding anything authoratative.

Thanks,

Carl


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Fix 1456 (issue3693042)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

Reviewers: ,

Message:
Here's a fix for issue 1456.

I've taken the context argument out of \overrideTimeSignatureSettings
and \revertTimeSignatureSettings.  They now apply to the Timing context.

I've also added an example showing how to have different time signature
settings in different staves.

Please review.

Thanks,

Carl


Description:
Fix 1456

Eliminate the context argument from \overrideTimeSignatureSettings
and \revertTimeSignatureSettings, since the settings that apply must
be those from the Timing context.

Update documentation to go along with this change.

Run convert-ly on the docs and snippets.

Please review this at http://codereview.appspot.com/3693042/

Affected files:
  M Documentation/de/notation/rhythms.itely
  M Documentation/es/notation/rhythms.itely
  M Documentation/fr/notation/rhythms.itely
  M Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely
  M input/regression/multiple-time-sig-settings.ly
  M input/regression/skiptypesetting-multimeasurerest.ly
  M ly/music-functions-init.ly
  M python/convertrules.py
  M scm/time-signature-settings.scm



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Re: scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh appears not to work on Documentation/notation/rhythms.itely

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 2:39 PM, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/16/10 10:25 AM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 09:52:07AM -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote:
>>> 
>>> sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
>>> -prune \
 , -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
>>> find: ,: unknown option
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's the , in the find.
>> 
>> Could you try replacing it with an -o ?  apparently -or is not
>> posix compliant, but it doesn't say that -o  is not posix.
>> 
>> find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets' -prune -o -name
>> '*.itely' | grep rhythms
>> 
>> 
>> ... using -o instead of -or is one of the stupidest posixisms I've
>> heard of since "creat", but if it works I guess we just need to
>> grin and bear it.
> 
> Works great:
> 
> sorensen2:lilypond Carl$ find Documentation/ -path 'Documentation/snippets'
> -prune -o -name '*.itely' | grep rhythms
> Documentation//de/notation/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//es/notation/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//fr/notation/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//notation/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//out/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//out-www/rhythms.itely
> Documentation//snippets/rhythms-intro.itely
> 

I also changed the line in scripts/auxiliar/update-with-convert-ly.sh, and
the script successfully ran on my Mac.

I haven't pushed the change to update-with-convert-ly.sh, because I wanted
to separate it, and I didn't want to risk breaking things in the build.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Bertrand Bordage]

Something quite better :
http://books.google.com/books?id=c9x1XBrdwuIC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false

and this ... http://www.ldsorganistblog.com/2009/10/pedal-points.html
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FW: Organ pedalboard fingerings

[Carl Sorensen]

This should have come to -devel, but I sent it to -user.

Thanks,

Carl

-- Forwarded Message
From: Carl Sorensen 
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:22:50 -0700
To: Bertrand Bordage 
Cc: lilypond-user 
Conversation: Organ pedalboard fingerings
Subject: Re: Organ pedalboard fingerings




On 12/16/10 4:17 PM, "Bertrand Bordage"  wrote:

> Something quite better :
> http://books.google.com/books?id=c9x1XBrdwuIC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=fal
> se 
>  e&q&f=false>

Yes -- page 4 shows the regular and inverted symbols, and indicates why you
would want to use them -- when the pedal and left hand lines are written in
the same staff.

> 
> and this ... http://www.ldsorganistblog.com/2009/10/pedal-points.html

Also interesting.

Thanks,

Carl

-- End of Forwarded Message


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Re: issue classification: priority guidelines

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi,

2010/12/15 Phil Holmes :
> Jan,
>
> I think I can fix your LilyBuntu problem - I had the same.  Try _installing_
> LB, not running _live_ (I'm guessing this is what's happening - it was for
> me).  At the very initial text prompt, type install rather than live.

2010/12/15 Graham Percival :
>
> 2010/12/15 Janek Warchoł :
>> i struggle with 800x600 VirtualBox resolution
>
> Answer is in the CG in version 2.13.43.  Look at the lilybuntu page right now.

Indeed, i used to run lilybuntu live instead of installing it and then
running it from (virtual) hard drive - thanks, Phil!
Now i installed it and ran from hd. I had problems with guest
additions: clicking "install guest additions" from "devices" menu
apparently didn't do anything (tutorials on the web suggest that a
wizard should appear but it didn't). Surprisingly when i restarted
VirtualBox VBOXADDITIONS_ appeared out of nowhere. Is this behaviour
expected?
Nevertheless, now i can take advantage of 1920x1080 resolution. Looks
great! 2 hours of work had paid for themselves.

2010/12/15 Graham Percival :
> 2.  Asking people about information that we haven't documented, unless
> you've made an obvious effort to understand it yourself first, is not
> going to win you friends.

Oops, i didn't want to sound like that... Sorry.

> 3.  Don't start with the hardest / highest-priority issues.  Pick
> something tagged with "frogs" to get started on.

Isn't that obvious? Along with the fact that i'd prefer to work on the
issues that bother me the most, no matter their difficulty?
:-)
Well, maybe i'll manage to resist the temptation.

> You might actually want to wait a week or so, while we do a massive
> shake-down of the lilybuntu and compiling instructions.

I don't know. Maybe i'll just get familiar with things.

W dniu 15 grudnia 2010 17:58 użytkownik Carl Sorensen
 napisał:
> Section 9.1 of the Contributor's Guide gives the 30-second overview of how
> LilyPond works.  It is, however, missing a description of the output stage,
> when she code that produces the postscript or svg commands is actually
> executed.

Yeah, i've read it already.
Do you think i should read
http://lilypond.org/web/images/thesis-erik-sandberg.pdf?

> Section 9.7 of the CG gives a rundown of a process used to trace the object
> relationships that might help you better understand how lilypond works.
> Give it a try.
> A debugger might help, but I find it LilyPond to be so complex in its
> execution that tracing it through a debugger is rarely helpful.

I'll probably try both. At least at some { c } score.

> If you search through the source code (along with studying chapter 9 of the
> Contributor's Guide) and then come up with specific questions about the code
> that you're studying, I'd expect that we'll be willing to answer them.

:)
Thanks for help.
Good ...morning? (it's 3 am here in Poland)
Janek

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Re: issue classification: priority guidelines

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/16/10 7:24 PM, "Janek Warchoł" 
wrote:
> 
>> 3.  Don't start with the hardest / highest-priority issues.  Pick
>> something tagged with "frogs" to get started on.
> 
> Isn't that obvious? Along with the fact that i'd prefer to work on the
> issues that bother me the most, no matter their difficulty?
> :-)
> Well, maybe i'll manage to resist the temptation.

Actually, if you've got something that is bugging you, it might be something
to get started on.  I know it's not the recommended practice, but it
provides lots of motivation.  We can always tell you you're in over your
head after you try.
>  napisał:
>> Section 9.1 of the Contributor's Guide gives the 30-second overview of how
>> LilyPond works.  It is, however, missing a description of the output stage,
>> when she code that produces the postscript or svg commands is actually
>> executed.
> 
> Yeah, i've read it already.
> Do you think i should read
> http://lilypond.org/web/images/thesis-erik-sandberg.pdf?

It's hard for me to say.  I read the thesis before I wrote section 9.1 of
the CG.  I think the stuff in 9.1 is the takeaway I got from the thesis.
But feel free to take a look at it.  You can decide it yourself.


> 
>> Section 9.7 of the CG gives a rundown of a process used to trace the object
>> relationships that might help you better understand how lilypond works.
>> Give it a try.
>> A debugger might help, but I find it LilyPond to be so complex in its
>> execution that tracing it through a debugger is rarely helpful.
> 
> I'll probably try both. At least at some { c } score.
> 

Rather than trying to step through, I'd recommend that you pick an engraver
that you want to set a breakpoint in, then run it in the debugger and do a
stack trace after the break.  I think you'll be surprised by the depth of
the stack trace (I know I am).

> :)
> Thanks for help.

You're welcome.

> Good ...morning? (it's 3 am here in Poland)

Evening here in Utah..

Sleep well.

Carl


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Re: lilybuntu 2

[Colin Campbell]

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 13:48 +, Graham Percival wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 02:58:12PM +, Graham Percival wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 05:11:46AM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
> > > If you want to test it, please feel free. Note that the lily-git.tcl
> > > script is already in the user's home directory, ready to grab the
> > > source code.
> > 
> > Actually, could people wait a few days?  I'd like to take this
> > opportunity to have a thorough examination of our installation
> > stuff.  I'd like to have one person try it and make notes about
> > what worked and what didn't, then I'll tweak the docs, then a new
> > person will try it, then I'll adjust the docs again, etc.
> 
> James has tried it and sent me comments, and I've made my first
> revision of the process.  Unfortunately, the results aren't online
> yet, but let's not panic.
> 
> Would any doc-savvy contributor like to try lilybuntu 2 and the
> new version of the instructions?
> 
> 1. Please rebuild the docs from current git master (or at least,
> build the Contributor's Guide).
> 
> 2. Start reading at 1.1 Help us.  Your "motivation" is that you
> want to do "advanced tasks".  (if you are looking at a "help us"
> page which does not list "advanced tasks", then you're looking at
> old docs)
> 
> 3. start following the instructions, and let me know where you end
> up.  The goal is to have a streamlined set of instructions,
> assuming a reasonably competent computer user but with no specific
> knowledge of lilypond development (or development at all!).
> 

I gave it a look at the office, where I run VBox with an Ubuntu 10.10 VM
on WinXP.
After d'l the .iso, the following took a bit less than an hour:

Build a VM: 1GB, 128Mb display memory, everything else defaulted.
Assign .iso to VM CD
Boot VM
Got an ISOLINUX console, and typed Install
Take defaults (it even found the correct time zone!)
Installed VBox Guest Additions as instructed: pleasant surprise, as I
was used to doing it from a root shell.
Boot into new VM
Use FF to go to LP website, follow path from Community - Help Us -
Advanced Tasks to Use Lilybuntu
Clicked on link to lily-git.tcl source, watched it open as a text file,
thought "Silly bunt!", opened Nautilus and found the script already in
my home.
Double-clicked, said "run in terminal", clicked "get source" and all is
well.
Being the possessor of well-worn moccasins, I went to the Requirements
section of 3.3 and was delighted to find I only had to install
xfonts-cronyx-100dpi and -75dpi, with all other requirements for
compiling and building documentation already installed! Very well done,
indeed!
Riding a wave of optimism, fired up a terminal and ran
the .\autogen.sh ./configure make sudo make install routine with no
obvious errors.
Went to the website and copied the code from LM 2.3.3 Lyrics to Multiple
Staves and put it into a .ly on my desktop, just as a test.
Ran lilypond from a terminal and reproduced the image in the LM.
All told, a very painless experience.

All that said, however, I think that both lily-git and lilybuntu are
rather awkwardly shoehorned into the CG. It might be worth reorganizing
a bit:
1. * Help us::
* Overview of work flow:
move lilybuntu, to ensure the flow to
* Mentors::

2. (new) Setting up the environment
* Lilybuntu
* Requirements (moved from 3.3)

3. Working with source code (was section 2)
* left as is, although why do we use git on Windows if we can't build?
If we're pointing Windows and MacOS users to lilybuntu, let's just drop
(2).5 entirely
Move section 3.4 Getting the source code in here.

4. Compiling
* Combine 3.2 Overview of compiling with 3.1 dropping the first bit
about lilybuntu, and adding a note that the rest of the section assumes
the use of lily-git
* Rest of the section as is

This is not overly thought out, just a reaction to following the path
Graham set out, and trying to be as naive as possible.  I think the
existing setup tries to combine a focus on the tools (lilybuntu and
lily-git) with laying out the process (set up the environment, get the
source, compile, specialize), to the detriment of both.

Returning to Graham's question, and setting aside the above rant, I
think lilybuntu2 is excellently done, and the instructions in the CG
specific to getting lilybuntu up and running are fine

The changes I'm suggesting are pretty much a repackaging, not a total
rewrite, but to me, they seem to be a more logical view of the path from
how do I help, how do I set up m,y machine, where's the source, how do I
build it, to the more detailed how can I help.

cheers,

Colin

-- 
Excellent day for putting Slinkies on an escalator. 
Dan Galvin, TFTD List 20070228-- 



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Re: lilybuntu 2

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 09:44:17PM -0700, Colin Campbell wrote:

> Use FF to go to LP website, follow path from Community - Help Us -
> Advanced Tasks to Use Lilybuntu
> Clicked on link to lily-git.tcl source, watched it open as a text file,
> thought "Silly bunt!", opened Nautilus and found the script already in
> my home.

Oops, sorry!  I forgot that the website would be updated
immediately.  My instructions about "if you don't see 'advanced
tasks', then you're looking at old docs" were inaccurate.


> All that said, however, I think that both lily-git and lilybuntu are
> rather awkwardly shoehorned into the CG. It might be worth reorganizing
> a bit:

Sorry, you were looking at the CG before I spent 5 hours working
on this type of reorganization.  :(


unfortunately kainhofer doesn't seem to be updating with the new
CG (or even the new website), so until I release 2.13.44, the only
people who can see the updated instructions are those who can
already compile git.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: lilybuntu 2

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 04:54:45AM +, Graham Percival wrote:
> unfortunately kainhofer doesn't seem to be updating with the new
> CG (or even the new website), so until I release 2.13.44, the only
> people who can see the updated instructions are those who can
> already compile git.

Further to this, I'll upload a current version of the CG pdf to
somewhere.  It's not ideal (since the official docs will still be
out of date), but at least lilypond-devel people can read the
latest draft while we're working on these instructions.

Cheers,
- Graham

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