Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 08:05:40AM -0500, Laura Conrad wrote: > >> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >Jonathan> We North Americans do preserve some items of history > >Jonathan> that Europe has shed. Do not discriminate against us on > >Jonathan> that account. > > > >That being said, I'm one of the people who would use shape note support > >if it got added, and I'm willing to help, or even to start something if > >other people would be willing to help. I've never used metafont, but I > >do own The Book. So I gather the first thing is to produce the shapes > >in Metafont? > > I have a new job doing kernel development, and time is scarce. So is > money, but I'm prepared to donate $100 to the Lilypond project for the > sake of this feature. Where do I send the cheque? You can send the money via paypal to me, in which case I'll have a look to see what needs to be done. FWIW, the shapes have already been added to the font some two years ago, but have sat there unused ever since. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
> "Ruud" == Ruud van Silfhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ruud> I don't know if this is of interest but one of the older messages Ruud> in the lilypond mailing lists contained an attachment with a diff. Ruud> (the mail came from someone called Glen Prideaux) Then I have two email addresses for him in my records: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
Hi, I saw your discussion concerning shaped notes. I don't know if this is of interest but one of the older messages in the lilypond mailing lists contained an attachment with a diff. (the mail came from someone called Glen Prideaux) Perhaps this can be of any help. If you found it yourself already, then sorry for the noise. Regards, Ruud van Silfhout - Original Message - From: "Laura Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jonathan Walther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: did shaped note support ever get added? > >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jonathan> The important thing with shape notes is that the shape > Jonathan> be distinct. The triangle, square, diamond, circle, > Jonathan> hemisphere, and the other two. > > So what are the other two? And what does the hemisphere mean? I only > know anything about Sacred Harp. > > -- > Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) > (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 > 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 > > > > > ___ > lilypond-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel lilypond-1.5.37.diff.gz Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 01:22:43PM -0500, Laura Conrad wrote: "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan> The important thing with shape notes is that the shape Jonathan> be distinct. The triangle, square, diamond, circle, Jonathan> hemisphere, and the other two. So what are the other two? And what does the hemisphere mean? I only know anything about Sacred Harp. Do - equilateral triangle Re - half of a circle, straight edge facing up Mi - diamond Fa - right angle triangle So - full circle or oval La - square Ti - quarter of a circle, pointy end facing down You can see a picture here: http://fasola.org/introduction/note_shapes.html I am only interested in the Aiken and Sacred Harp shaped notes. I could scan some pages from my Aiken shape note hymnal (printed in 1999) if that would help, but as I said before, it isn't beautiful. Jonathan -- Patriarchy, Polygamy, Slavery ::: Fatherhood, Husbandry, Mastery Puritan: Purity of faith, Purity of doctrine. Sola Scriptura! Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 12706 99 Ave, Surrey, BC V3V2P8 (Canada) Contact: 604-582-9308 (between 7am and 11pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan> The important thing with shape notes is that the shape Jonathan> be distinct. The triangle, square, diamond, circle, Jonathan> hemisphere, and the other two. So what are the other two? And what does the hemisphere mean? I only know anything about Sacred Harp. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 08:05:40AM -0500, Laura Conrad wrote: "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan> We North Americans do preserve some items of history Jonathan> that Europe has shed. Do not discriminate against us on Jonathan> that account. That being said, I'm one of the people who would use shape note support if it got added, and I'm willing to help, or even to start something if other people would be willing to help. I've never used metafont, but I do own The Book. So I gather the first thing is to produce the shapes in Metafont? I have a new job doing kernel development, and time is scarce. So is money, but I'm prepared to donate $100 to the Lilypond project for the sake of this feature. Where do I send the cheque? And a typographical question: am I the only person who is bothered by both whatever font the Sacred Harp uses and the Finale font, because the triangle seems so much lighter weight than the other symbols? I don't know what font Finale uses, but my shaped note hymnal doesn't use a very good font either. This is something where we could probably excel. According to the list archives, it looks like someone already did the metafont for this; or else that is the stage they got stuck at. If the list archives had email addresses, I'd drop the person a note. The important thing with shape notes is that the shape be distinct. The triangle, square, diamond, circle, hemisphere, and the other two. Jonathan -- Patriarchy, Polygamy, Slavery ::: Fatherhood, Husbandry, Mastery Puritan: Purity of faith, Purity of doctrine. Sola Scriptura! Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 12706 99 Ave, Surrey, BC V3V2P8 (Canada) Contact: 604-582-9308 (between 7am and 11pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan> We North Americans do preserve some items of history Jonathan> that Europe has shed. Do not discriminate against us on Jonathan> that account. I don't know of any shape note tradition in Europe, and I've shown Sacred Harp to some Europeans with a *lot* of education in the history of music notation who had never seen any such thing. So I think it would be more accurate to say that North Americans are preserving their own history, and not imply that Europeans are not. That being said, I'm one of the people who would use shape note support if it got added, and I'm willing to help, or even to start something if other people would be willing to help. I've never used metafont, but I do own The Book. So I gather the first thing is to produce the shapes in Metafont? And a typographical question: am I the only person who is bothered by both whatever font the Sacred Harp uses and the Finale font, because the triangle seems so much lighter weight than the other symbols? Or is this a feature used by people who actually sing from the shapes? (I sing shape notes only occasionally, and I'm just reading the notes the way I'd read any other notes, not using the shapes to tell me what the intervals are.) -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
Don't misinterpret me, I'm just talking about the group of LilyPond users that make themselves heard on the mailing list. Only two requests during the 8 years that LilyPond has existed is very little compared to the amount of emails we have seen about other features. Also, I'm not the one taking any decisions, that's done by the all the hackers that contribute to this piece of free software. /Mats Jonathan Walther wrote: On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:23:12AM +0100, Mats Bengtsson wrote: Just as some other feature requests that pop up on the mailing list, the feature would be useful to a fairly narrow group of users Over there in Europe, it can look like we are only a "narrow" group of users, but here in North America there are a LOT of people who enjoy singing music that is in shaped note format. A lot of hymnals are still being printed in shaped notes. Finale did add shaped note support to their product for a reason; the market was there! We North Americans do preserve some items of history that Europe has shed. Do not discriminate against us on that account. Jonathan -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing Signals, Sensors and Systems Royal Institute of Technology SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
Jonathan Walther writes: > Finale did add shaped note support to their product for a reason; the > market was there! That may or may not be so, but that is irrelevant. LilyPond is free software, things work a bit differently over here. If enough users want a feature, surely one of them can implement it and send a patch. If none of them wants to do that, they can raise some money to pay for the feature to get it implemented. > We North Americans do preserve some items of history that Europe has > shed. Do not discriminate against us on that account. If you look at it this way, you see that ones to discriminate most against North Americans are the potential users of the shaped note feature. Until now, that potential user base has not been able to either produce a patch, to raise enough money or to produce enough moral pressure for a non-shapist to implement it. To name just one example, I guess that fret diagrams are wanted by even more people, yet it is only now in the process of being implemented. My guess is that most if not all useful features will be added to LilyPond sooner or later. It will be sooner if you help. Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:23:12AM +0100, Mats Bengtsson wrote: Just as some other feature requests that pop up on the mailing list, the feature would be useful to a fairly narrow group of users Over there in Europe, it can look like we are only a "narrow" group of users, but here in North America there are a LOT of people who enjoy singing music that is in shaped note format. A lot of hymnals are still being printed in shaped notes. Finale did add shaped note support to their product for a reason; the market was there! We North Americans do preserve some items of history that Europe has shed. Do not discriminate against us on that account. Jonathan -- Patriarchy, Polygamy, Slavery ::: Fatherhood, Husbandry, Mastery Puritan: Purity of faith, Purity of doctrine. Sola Scriptura! Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 12706 99 Ave, Surrey, BC V3V2P8 (Canada) Contact: 604-582-9308 (between 7am and 11pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: did shaped note support ever get added?
Jonathan Walther wrote: More than two years ago, someone on this list said they were working on shaped note support. Did this ever get added in? I need it for current and future projects. I am visiting a Mennonite denomination that still uses the Aiken shaped note system for their hymnal. I'd like to convert some of their hymns to lilypond format. I also have a composer friend who is composing hymns, but for most members of this denomination to be able to sing them, they have to be in shaped note format. Having Sacred Harp shaped note support would also be nice. There are some old hymns I want to add to my new churches hymnal. Is support for this planned, or present? There are a lot of old hymns I'm itching to get typeset, and then tweak to match modern theology for Sunday usage by large congregations. Not that I know of! It shouldn't be so hard to do if you are good at programming in Metafont (to implement the font symbols) and Scheme (to write a function that changes the note head depending on the pitch). Just as some other feature requests that pop up on the mailing list, the feature would be useful to a fairly narrow group of users, so it is hard to justify any major effort to add and support that feature compared to solving problems that still remain, related to traditional notation. On the other hand, if you are interested and have the competence, or can convince somebody who has the competence, it's just to go ahead and implement it. /Mats ___ lilypond-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
