RE: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems, on lilypond-user)
Hello
)-Original Message-
)From: lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org
)[mailto:lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org] On
)Behalf Of Keith OHara
)Sent: 10 June 2011 08:06
)To: lilypond-devel@gnu.org
)Subject: Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff
)stems, on lilypond-user)
)
)Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoullego at gmail.com writes:
)
) The change is almost certainly due to new beam collision algorithm.
) I'm forwarding this message to the development team so that they will
) know about this issue.
) I'm not sure if it's a bug, though
)
)I think it is a documentation issue. Sometimes we need to turn off the
)new automatic collision avoidance by beams.
)
)\version 2.12
)
) c'2
) \new Staff
)%% The cross-staff chord below worked until about 2.13.50,
)%% but now we need another override.
)%% I thought there was a nice way to say it is okay for beams to cross
)stems
)%% but I can't find it now.
)% \override Staff.Beam #'details #'collision-voice-only = ##t
)\clef bass
)\new Voice {\stemUp g8 g8 g8 g8 }
)\new Voice {
) \override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
) \override Stem #'length = #20
) c2
)}
)
[James' reply:] Anything you can give me specifically Keith? I've just got back
from my travels so am trying to catch up the threads that are pertinent to me,
so if you have done this or it has been resolved I apologise.
James
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Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems, on lilypond-user)
2011/6/14 James Lowe james.l...@datacore.com: [James' reply:] Anything you can give me specifically Keith? I've just got back from my travels so am trying to catch up the threads that are pertinent to me, so if you have done this or it has been resolved I apologise. I'm not Keith :) but this is rather closed now - no change to the docs is expected, a snippet Cross-staff chords - beaming problems workaround (id 770) was added. cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems,?on lilypond-user)
2011/6/12 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca: On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 02:06:35PM +0200, Janek Warchoł wrote: 2011/6/11 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca: Is this problem likely to be unfixed? Or is there a compelling reason to override our normal doc policy in this specific case? I am always happy to grant exceptions if there is a good reason. I'd say that what we have here is an architecture which may be interpreted as bug. (ofc it will be nice if the architecture was improved, but it isn't necessary buggy) I don't care whether it's a bug or an architecture. Is it a problem? yes. I'm not arguing about that. Now, should we discuss this problem in the official Notation reference? Well, that depends on whether the problem is likely to be fixed in the next year or so. If Keith, or Mike, or Han-Wen, tells me yes, we have absolutely no plans on changing this bug/architecture/problem/geography in the next few months, then our policy states that we should discuss this in the Notation reference. If not, then our policy states that we should *not* discuss this in the Notation reference. At the end of the day, i'd like to have something in the docs that helps avoiding this problem with cross-staff stems and beam collision. We may name it whatever we want. Then I suggest you add it to LSR, and tag it with docs. That's much faster and less messy than editing files in git! Unless you are doing it for the first time, that is :) Ok, it's not the time to discuss policies. Added as Cross-staff chords - beaming problems workarounds Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems,?on lilypond-user)
2011/6/11 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 07:05:34AM +, Keith OHara wrote:
Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoullego at gmail.com writes:
The change is almost certainly due to new beam collision algorithm.
I'm forwarding this message to the development team so that they will
know about this issue.
I'm not sure if it's a bug, though
I think it is a documentation issue. Sometimes we need to turn off the new
automatic collision avoidance by beams.
Our existing policy is only to document bugs which are not likely
to be fixed within a year or so. This is to avoid having lots of
old warnings in the docs which nobody remembered to remove when
making a bug fix.
The @knownissues should not discuss any issues that are in the
tracker, unless the issue is Priority-Postponed. The goal is to
discuss any overall architecture or syntax decisions which may be
interpreted as bugs. Normal bugs should not be discussed here,
because we have so many bugs that it would be a huge task to keep
the @knownissues current and accurate all the time.
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/contributor/section-organization
Is this problem likely to be unfixed? Or is there a compelling
reason to override our normal doc policy in this specific case?
I am always happy to grant exceptions if there is a good reason.
I'd say that what we have here is an architecture which may be
interpreted as bug.
(ofc it will be nice if the architecture was improved, but it isn't
necessary buggy)
Besides, we can avoid the problem with my doc patch by rearranging it.
See the attachment: i've changed it to be just another example, not a
@knownissue.
At the end of the day, i'd like to have something in the docs that
helps avoiding this problem with cross-staff stems and beam collision.
We may name it whatever we want.
HTH,
Janek
From 43b3e84cafe24db3e97912878dda3fed1cb1f6f6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Janek Warchol lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:39:40 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] doc: cross-staff chords and beam collision2
---
Documentation/notation/keyboards.itely | 35
1 files changed, 35 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
diff --git a/Documentation/notation/keyboards.itely b/Documentation/notation/keyboards.itely
index f62b210..4c5c903 100644
--- a/Documentation/notation/keyboards.itely
+++ b/Documentation/notation/keyboards.itely
@@ -451,6 +451,41 @@ Chords that cross staves may be produced:
@end lilypond
+Sometimes it is better to use stems from another staff
+for this purpose, because no problems with automatic beam collision
+avoidance arise. If the stems from the lower staff were used
+in the following example, it would be necessary to turn automatic
+beam collision avoidance off.
+
+@lilypond[verbatim,quote]
+\new PianoStaff
+ \new Staff = up
+\relative c' {
+
+{ r4
+ \override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
+ \override Stem #'length = #19 % this is in half-spaces,
+ % so it makes stems 9.5 staffspaces long
+ \override Stem #'Y-offset = #-6 % stems are normally lenghtened
+ % upwards, so here we must lower the stem by the amount
+ % equal to the lenghtening - in this case (19 - 7) / 2
+ % (7 is default stem length)
+ e e e }
+{ s4
+ \change Staff = bottom
+ c, c c
+}
+
+}
+ \new Staff = bottom
+\relative c' {
+ \clef bass
+ \voiceOne
+ g8 a g a g a g a
+}
+
+@end lilypond
+
@snippets
@lilypondfile[verbatim,lilyquote,texidoc,doctitle]
{indicating-cross-staff-chords-with-arpeggio-bracket.ly}
--
1.7.0.4
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Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems,?on lilypond-user)
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 02:06:35PM +0200, Janek Warchoł wrote: 2011/6/11 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca: Is this problem likely to be unfixed? Or is there a compelling reason to override our normal doc policy in this specific case? I am always happy to grant exceptions if there is a good reason. I'd say that what we have here is an architecture which may be interpreted as bug. (ofc it will be nice if the architecture was improved, but it isn't necessary buggy) I don't care whether it's a bug or an architecture. Is it a problem? yes. I'm not arguing about that. Now, should we discuss this problem in the official Notation reference? Well, that depends on whether the problem is likely to be fixed in the next year or so. If Keith, or Mike, or Han-Wen, tells me yes, we have absolutely no plans on changing this bug/architecture/problem/geography in the next few months, then our policy states that we should discuss this in the Notation reference. If not, then our policy states that we should *not* discuss this in the Notation reference. At the end of the day, i'd like to have something in the docs that helps avoiding this problem with cross-staff stems and beam collision. We may name it whatever we want. Then I suggest you add it to LSR, and tag it with docs. That's much faster and less messy than editing files in git! Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems, on lilypond-user)
On 10 June 2011 08:05, Keith OHara k-ohara5...@oco.net wrote: I think it is a documentation issue. Sometimes we need to turn off the new automatic collision avoidance by beams. \version 2.12 c'2 \new Staff %% The cross-staff chord below worked until about 2.13.50, %% but now we need another override. %% I thought there was a nice way to say it is okay for beams to cross stems %% but I can't find it now. % \override Staff.Beam #'details #'collision-voice-only = ##t \override Staff.Beam #'collision-voice-only = ##t Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems,?on lilypond-user)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 07:05:34AM +, Keith OHara wrote: Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoullego at gmail.com writes: The change is almost certainly due to new beam collision algorithm. I'm forwarding this message to the development team so that they will know about this issue. I'm not sure if it's a bug, though I think it is a documentation issue. Sometimes we need to turn off the new automatic collision avoidance by beams. Our existing policy is only to document bugs which are not likely to be fixed within a year or so. This is to avoid having lots of old warnings in the docs which nobody remembered to remove when making a bug fix. The @knownissues should not discuss any issues that are in the tracker, unless the issue is Priority-Postponed. The goal is to discuss any overall architecture or syntax decisions which may be interpreted as bugs. Normal bugs should not be discussed here, because we have so many bugs that it would be a huge task to keep the @knownissues current and accurate all the time. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/contributor/section-organization Is this problem likely to be unfixed? Or is there a compelling reason to override our normal doc policy in this specific case? I am always happy to grant exceptions if there is a good reason. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems, on lilypond-user)
Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoullego at gmail.com writes:
The change is almost certainly due to new beam collision algorithm.
I'm forwarding this message to the development team so that they will
know about this issue.
I'm not sure if it's a bug, though
I think it is a documentation issue. Sometimes we need to turn off the new
automatic collision avoidance by beams.
\version 2.12
c'2
\new Staff
%% The cross-staff chord below worked until about 2.13.50,
%% but now we need another override.
%% I thought there was a nice way to say it is okay for beams to cross stems
%% but I can't find it now.
% \override Staff.Beam #'details #'collision-voice-only = ##t
\clef bass
\new Voice {\stemUp g8 g8 g8 g8 }
\new Voice {
\override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
\override Stem #'length = #20
c2
}
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problem with beam collision (was: problem with cross-staff stems, on lilypond-user)
Hi David,
glad it worked :)
The change is almost certainly due to new beam collision algorithm.
I'm forwarding this message to the development team so that they will
know about this issue.
I'm not sure if it's a bug, though - Phil, you are the bugmaster, can
you give us your opinion? :)
cheers,
Janek
2011/6/9 David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com:
Hi Janek,
2011/6/9 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com
2011/6/9 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
PS overridding beam positions seems to work too:
%%%
\version 2.14.0
top = \relative c' {
{ r4 e e e }
{ s4
\change Staff = bottom
\override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
\override Stem #'length = #20
\override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
c, c c
}
}
bottom = \relative c' {
\clef bass
\voiceOne % similar results with \voiceThree or \stemUp
\override Beam #'positions = #'(4.5 . 4.5)
g8 a g a g a g a
}
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff = top {
\top
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\bottom
}
%%%
HTH,
Janek
This works perfectly. I checked the beam override with this example in 2.14
and with my more complicated example, and it solves the problem. Thank you
so much!!
(I ran into this difficulty when converting a score from 2.12.3 to 2.14. It
seems that one or the other of the overrides you suggest is now necessary.
The attached image shows my example as I wrote it above processed with
2.12.3.)
Best,
David
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