Re: How to add double barlines to a gregorian chant?
Okay, I´ll try to play around with different versions. In the current case that´s not such a problem for me, because there are some chants I have to produce NOW and they have to look good. After that I probably won´t use gregorian chant that soon. Dominic 2008/8/12 Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008/08/11 11:13 AM, Dominic Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Kurt! I already solved some problems, for example by using \finalis, \divisioMinima and so on. The main remaining problem is the bad positioning of notes and lyrics when two or more noteheads are nearly in one place. After these places is too much space until the next notehead is printed. Now I updated from 2.11.44 to 2.11.55 hoping that it helps. But the output of http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/lilypond/Ancient-notation.ht ml looks other than online. Online there are not those ugly spaces, but on my system there are. [It´s Windows XP Pro, LilyPond version 2.11.55] (see attachment for this). Any ideas? It appears to have happened sometime between versions 2.11.51 (when the online output was generated) and 2.11.55 (the most current development version). I'm getting similar results on Mac OS X (10.4), using the same dev version. This cycle of progress-regress is tiresome but to be expected since we're working with a development version of the program. Ancient notation -- and Gregorian-type chant in particular -- has been neglected for quite some time, so even the modest advances that I've seen since version 2.8 (or so) are refreshing. You may also consider downgrading to the current stable version, 2.10.33. I have attached an example of that version's output. (Assuming that you *can* downgrade: it works fine on my Macintosh, but I can't test on WinXP. The only computer available to me that runs Windows XP is my work computer, and my employer (the State of California) penalizes inappropriate personal use of State property.) I'm sorry that I can't offer better help -- but I'm kind of stuck in the same situation as you, hoping that LilyPond's output doesn't regress too much. Maybe some of the gurus on this list (who have more experience with spacing issues) can help us out ...? Kurtis PS: There's always Grégoire (http://gregoire.tele.free.fr/) -- but it's even older than LilyPond (even though it was purpose-built for producing Gregorian chant). It doesn't have a layout engine; you integrate the results into your favorite word processor / DTP program. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: spacing problem
It's not specific to dotted notes but to notes which have longer durations, and which get squeezed far too much -- the same problem occurs for, say, half notes and whole notes. I simply want to control these squeezing values globally. The spacing is controlled by 2 values in the end: the ideal length of the spring, and the width of the fixed part (the remaining is the stretchable part). I guess you want to increase the fixed width for these notes (which also decreases the stretching in case of loose lines - the springs are symmetric in stretch and shrink). You could experiment with Spacing_spanner::musical_column_spacing to tweak the fixed length. You mean a factor for base_note_space (at least this is what I understand at looking at this code)? What about making it configurable? Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP -- Revised second draft of Fretted strings
Hi again Carl Another major addition! The new fretboard additions are very impressive! All very clearly and concisely written except for one paragraph, which just confused me: 2.4.1.4 Custom tablatures I found the first paragraph less than clear, maybe because I'm not familiar with tablature. In particular, I was left with the following questions: a) what is the order in which the strings should be specified - seems like lowest to highest? b) if so, why subtract more to give the pitch of higher strings? c) the sentence starting The numbers specified ... seems to go wrong in the second half, so what is it saying? After reading this I felt the only way to understand it was to go away and experiment :( Trevor - Original Message - From: Carl D. Sorensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lily-devel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: GDP -- Revised second draft of Fretted strings Dear Lilypond Users and Developers, We're pleased to announce a revised second draft of NR 2.4 Fretted strings. This draft includes the new predefined-fretboards functionality that enables transposable guitar fret diagrams. Please proofread this section carefully, and try an example or two to see if the documentation is clear (especially 2.4.1.5 through 2.4.1.7). As always, the GDP documentation can be found at http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/lilypond/index.html Thanks in advance for your reviews. Your careful reviews will help the quality of the documentation match the quality of LilyPond output. Carl Sorensen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: spacing problem
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not specific to dotted notes but to notes which have longer durations, and which get squeezed far too much -- the same problem occurs for, say, half notes and whole notes. I simply want to control these squeezing values globally. The spacing is controlled by 2 values in the end: the ideal length of the spring, and the width of the fixed part (the remaining is the stretchable part). I guess you want to increase the fixed width for these notes (which also decreases the stretching in case of loose lines - the springs are symmetric in stretch and shrink). You could experiment with Spacing_spanner::musical_column_spacing to tweak the fixed length. You mean a factor for base_note_space (at least this is what I understand at looking at this code)? What about making it configurable? It already is to some extent; look at lily/spacing-options.cc -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP -- Revised second draft of Fretted strings
Thanks, Trevor. Custom Tablatures was a section that I didn't edit; my contributions were limited to the Fret Diagrams section. Jonathan, as I worked on the FretBoards material, I came to understand the fret assignment algorithm a bit. Would you like me to take on this section, or would you prefer to respond to Trevor's concerns? Thanks, Carl On 8/12/08 8:12 AM, Trevor Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again Carl Another major addition! The new fretboard additions are very impressive! All very clearly and concisely written except for one paragraph, which just confused me: 2.4.1.4 Custom tablatures I found the first paragraph less than clear, maybe because I'm not familiar with tablature. In particular, I was left with the following questions: a) what is the order in which the strings should be specified - seems like lowest to highest? b) if so, why subtract more to give the pitch of higher strings? c) the sentence starting The numbers specified ... seems to go wrong in the second half, so what is it saying? After reading this I felt the only way to understand it was to go away and experiment :( Trevor - Original Message - From: Carl D. Sorensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lily-devel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: GDP -- Revised second draft of Fretted strings Dear Lilypond Users and Developers, We're pleased to announce a revised second draft of NR 2.4 Fretted strings. This draft includes the new predefined-fretboards functionality that enables transposable guitar fret diagrams. Please proofread this section carefully, and try an example or two to see if the documentation is clear (especially 2.4.1.5 through 2.4.1.7). As always, the GDP documentation can be found at http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/lilypond/index.html Thanks in advance for your reviews. Your careful reviews will help the quality of the documentation match the quality of LilyPond output. Carl Sorensen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: spacing problem
You mean a factor for base_note_space (at least this is what I understand at looking at this code)? What about making it configurable? It already is to some extent; look at lily/spacing-options.cc I can't see anything in this file which influences the minimum value of a note's fixed-length part. get_duration_space() is obviously not what I'm looking for; it rather produces a default value which can still be squeezed by a spring, right? Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: spacing problem
You're looking for whatever goes into the 2nd argument of the Spring constructor. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean a factor for base_note_space (at least this is what I understand at looking at this code)? What about making it configurable? It already is to some extent; look at lily/spacing-options.cc I can't see anything in this file which influences the minimum value of a note's fixed-length part. get_duration_space() is obviously not what I'm looking for; it rather produces a default value which can still be squeezed by a spring, right? Werner -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
2008/8/10 Trevor Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Absolutely. When the LM was written the appropriate sections in the NR did not exist, or at least the headings were expected to change. Now the headings have stabilised (more or less) the refs can be added. Could you please make a new patch, taking into account the comments made yesterday by others and push it to origin/master, as you now have git access? I'm pretty happy with all your changes, and the odd nit I can pick up afterwards. This will be easier than trying to discuss little points in a long patch. Done, except that I forgot to add xrefs to NR in today's commits. I also pushed changes to the rest of LM 3, and will proofread LM 4 Tweaking output real soon. Cheers, John ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
2008/8/11 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:54:44 +0200 Valentin Villenave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, this is a Johnism (I don't know why he keeps asking us to remove parentheses). Parentheses are discouraged in highly formal writing, but they add clarity and the docs aren't extremely formal, so let's use them. It's true that I excessively want to remove parentheses everywhere, and I agree parentheses are useful and add clarity for short phrases. However, using parentheses to enclose long phrases or even full sentences is poor in formal writing, in this case long dashes or footnotes are preferable. Our docs should follow formal writing, especially in NR, even if we can be more tolerant in LM. BTW good references for French typography discourage use of parentheses too, so I'm not very tolerant in this respect in French translations. What I have in mind when commenting an .itely file is that comments may be useful for the next documentation team (when the guys will start their own Grand Documentation Project in 10 years). In this specific case, theoretically doc writers are aware that the engraver is not used anymore... I'm afraid that some innocent docs writer is tempted to change back to Dynamic_engraver will check the Internals Reference first and see that this engraver is longer used in any context, although it still exists; that's why I left this comment in my commit, which doesn't cost much. Cheers, John ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
John Mandereau wrote Tuesday, August 12, 2008 5:42 PM 2008/8/10 Trevor Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Absolutely. When the LM was written the appropriate sections in the NR did not exist, or at least the headings were expected to change. Now the headings have stabilised (more or less) the refs can be added. Could you please make a new patch, taking into account the comments made yesterday by others and push it to origin/master, as you now have git access? I'm pretty happy with all your changes, and the odd nit I can pick up afterwards. This will be easier than trying to discuss little points in a long patch. Done, except that I forgot to add xrefs to NR in today's commits. I also pushed changes to the rest of LM 3, and will proofread LM 4 Tweaking output real soon. Thanks John. They all look fine. I learned you can have digits in context names! --- as long as the names are in quotation marks. Cheers, John Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:00:51 -0700 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having spent well over a hundred hours on such [stupid, newbie rtfm] idiodicies in the past four years, I have no patience left for them. Well, you don't say. I've no doubt you've done the Lilypond project a great deal of good, but there's no way you should be (stupid newbie) customer facing. IMO, this is just not the kind of thing that should be aired on any -user list, prime searching ground for those very newbies, and your attitude grates. If you don't like the rtfm questions, don't answer them. There are, fortunately, some folks on the list with an ounce of patience and good manners. For the record, I agree with Bertalan's original observation. -- Nicholas WASTELL France ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
Hello, BTW, AU is what? An Astronomical Unit??? IR is commonly recognized is InfraRed :-))) IMHO there should be some sort of FAQ :-))) And in the end - PCMCIA (People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms) ... :-))) Tomas Valusek Valentin Villenave napsal(a): 2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My point is that lilypond-user reading users won't get used to it. Many of them are newcomers and beginners. They don't usually follow the conversations on the list. Referring to NRx.x is still okay when you're talking to devs and doc writers, I think. But I agree with you, you can't say to a beginner RTF NRx.x.x.x, and STFU :-) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh computers. And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG? Am 12.08.2008 um 19:43 schrieb Tomas Valusek: Hello, BTW, AU is what? An Astronomical Unit??? IR is commonly recognized is InfraRed :-))) IMHO there should be some sort of FAQ :-))) And in the end - PCMCIA (People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms) ... :-))) Tomas Valusek Valentin Villenave napsal(a): 2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My point is that lilypond-user reading users won't get used to it. Many of them are newcomers and beginners. They don't usually follow the conversations on the list. Referring to NRx.x is still okay when you're talking to devs and doc writers, I think. But I agree with you, you can't say to a beginner RTF NRx.x.x.x, and STFU :-) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
\textLengthOn - choosing which note to lengthen
I'm running into a situation where \textLengthOn isn't behaving like I would expect it to. I have an organ piece where I'd like to put some text between the staves for the manuals. The text is a bit too long, however, so it hits the barline. Adding \textLengthOn seems to be the right solution. Unfortunately, I can't get it to do anything other than lengthen the space after the shortest note that occurs at the same time as the text, even the shorter note is in a different voice than the text. The expected/desired behavior for me would be to have that command lengthen the time interval for the note that the text is attached to - if it was attached to a whole-note in a 4/4 bar, for instance, I'd expect it to expand the whole bar to match the length of the text. Instead, it lengthens the length of the shortest note in the bar. I've whipped up an example of what's going on: http://temp.mvpsoft.com/ly/TextLength.ly http://temp.mvpsoft.com/ly/TextLength.png Thanks in advance. -Chris Snyder ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
2008/8/12 Nicholas Wastell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If you don't like the rtfm questions, don't answer them. There are, fortunately, some folks on the list with an ounce of patience and good manners. Graham will probably not answer that, but... if you had been following discussions on -user and -devel for more than a few months, I think you would feel sorry for having written that. There's a reason why Graham can afford being... whatever he is (though, granted, you can hardly guess this reason from such mails as this last one). Hint: please have a look at http://schlitt.info/applications/blog/index.php?/archives/541-10-golden-rules-for-starting-with-open-source.html (I learned a lot from this page in my days). Regards, Valentin Villenave. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Trevor Daniels wrote I learned you can have digits in context names! --- as long as the names are in quotation marks. which I regard as slightly more confirmation of my fragile suspicion that in (the current GDP) Learning Manual 3.1.1 - In summary there shouldn't be a backslash in front of StaffGroup where it says Every \context block will affect the named context (e.g., \StaffGroup) Cheers, Robin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
Actually, MG is a state of brazil, to me. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh computers. And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ? In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many of the discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a particular audience. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to change the vocabulary based on the discussion and/or audience; actually, we already do. If Graham or Valentin uses NR or LSR in a response to a question or statement of mine, I'll understand. If I'm responding to an apparent newbie, using LM could possibly either confuse them more or turn them off to the LilyPond community in general. But isn´t that a bit insular? I think the answers on the list are not only provided for the one who asked but for everybody, even the people searching the mailing list archive later. So differentiating is okay, but you should also have others in your mind. Dominic I don't understand a lot of the code discussions on the list (especially ones with long strings of Scheme coding), but that doesn't keep me from using the list. Peace, Ralph On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, MG is a state of brazil, to me. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh computers. And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: spacing problem
I can't see anything in this file which influences the minimum value of a note's fixed-length part. get_duration_space() is obviously not what I'm looking for; it rather produces a default value which can still be squeezed by a spring, right? You're looking for whatever goes into the 2nd argument of the Spring constructor. Hmm. In file note-spacing.cc, function Note_Spacing::get_spacing, which is used in Spacing_Spanner::musical_column_spacing, I see this code: Real distance = skys[LEFT].distance (skys[RIGHT]); Real min_dist = max (0.0, distance); ... Spring ret (max (0.0, ideal), min_dist); ... return ret; It seems to me that `distance' can even become zero. I can't say whether this can cause problems due to lack of knowledge of the source code. On the other hand, musical_column_spacing contains this code in case the above one isn't called: spring = Spring (max (base_note_space, options-increment_), options-increment_); This looks better, however it means that *all* notes, regardless of its duration, have a minimum width of `spacing-increment' (which is the Scheme parameter assotiated with `increment_'); the default value is the width of a note head. Can this be correct? Isn't this too small in tight situations? Note heads might (almost) touch... IMHO, this should be configurable. Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
I agree, Dominic. It wasn't intended to be insular. On the other hand, when someone is responding to a question about Scheme or about deep (I don't even know the correct term) code, I don't see how one can, or if one should try to, make the discussion intelligible to a newbie. Ralph On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Dominic Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ? In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many of the discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a particular audience. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to change the vocabulary based on the discussion and/or audience; actually, we already do. If Graham or Valentin uses NR or LSR in a response to a question or statement of mine, I'll understand. If I'm responding to an apparent newbie, using LM could possibly either confuse them more or turn them off to the LilyPond community in general. But isn´t that a bit insular? I think the answers on the list are not only provided for the one who asked but for everybody, even the people searching the mailing list archive later. So differentiating is okay, but you should also have others in your mind. Dominic I don't understand a lot of the code discussions on the list (especially ones with long strings of Scheme coding), but that doesn't keep me from using the list. Peace, Ralph On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, MG is a state of brazil, to me. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh computers. And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwenhttp://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ehanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Mats Bengtsson wrote Robin Bannister wrote: Trevor Daniels wrote I learned you can have digits in context names! --- as long as the names are in quotation marks. which I regard as slightly more confirmation of my fragile suspicion that in (the current GDP) Learning Manual 3.1.1 - In summary there shouldn't be a backslash in front of StaffGroup where it says Every \context block will affect the named context (e.g., \StaffGroup) I think the current text is correct, but it's completely out of context. I guess that it refers to the technique described in NR 5.1.4 Changing context default settings, but since this isn't described at all in the LM, the sentence you refer to should probably be removed. I agree. However, one of my TODOs is to add \context to the Learning Manual, although this will probably not happen before 2.13. It will not precede section 3.1.1, so, yes, it should be removed from that section to avoid violating the design principle that nothing is used unless it has been explained earlier. I'll do it now. Thanks, Robin /Mats Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
Sure, that´s right! 2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree, Dominic. It wasn't intended to be insular. On the other hand, when someone is responding to a question about Scheme or about deep (I don't even know the correct term) code, I don't see how one can, or if one should try to, make the discussion intelligible to a newbie. Ralph On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Dominic Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ? In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many of the discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a particular audience. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to change the vocabulary based on the discussion and/or audience; actually, we already do. If Graham or Valentin uses NR or LSR in a response to a question or statement of mine, I'll understand. If I'm responding to an apparent newbie, using LM could possibly either confuse them more or turn them off to the LilyPond community in general. But isn´t that a bit insular? I think the answers on the list are not only provided for the one who asked but for everybody, even the people searching the mailing list archive later. So differentiating is okay, but you should also have others in your mind. Dominic I don't understand a lot of the code discussions on the list (especially ones with long strings of Scheme coding), but that doesn't keep me from using the list. Peace, Ralph On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, MG is a state of brazil, to me. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh computers. And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Trevor Daniels wrote
Thanks, Robin
Well, you're welcome. Glad to be of some use.
But also disappointed,
because I thought I had understood something (from reading the manual!),
and now it seems I hadn't.
Statistics for NR (pdf dated 2008-08-09, only slightly stale):
A: 21 hits for \context Staff
B: 14 hits for \context { \Staff
Or is it that I'm talking about A, and you are talking about B?
Cheers,
Robin
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Re: [PATCH] Re: Duration dots and Bar lines on custom Staves.
2008/8/12 Joe Neeman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would say that the second case should just be false. Unless 'me' is a staff symbol, you should not call Staff_symbol::on_line(me). And if 'me' is a staff symbol, it is not a staff symbol referencer, so no one should be calling Staff_symbol_referencer::on_line(me). Ah yes, I really do get it now. :) Just a quick question before I commit this: Staff_symbol_referencer::on_line () is overloaded, but only on_line (Grob *, int) is used; the same applies to Staff_symbol_referencer::on_staff_line (). Can I junk the redundant functions? Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Augmentation dot problem in 2.11.55
Jay Anderson wrote: Strange I'm seeing the same problem with this example. I've tested on Ubuntu 8.04 which should have the same install as fedora and on osx 10.4 PPC. I'm not sure what would be causing this if the same install produces normal output for some people and not for others. Are others seeing this also? I don't see a bug filed yet. Using yesterday's git-pull I see the same problem on Ubuntu 8.04. Today's git-pull is the same, I still see the same problem rendering. Patrick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Robin Bannister wrote
A: 21 hits for \context Staff
B: 14 hits for \context { \Staff
I think I get it now.
It must be that \context is overloaded,
does two quite different things.
Upon meeting a \context you must categorise it as A or B.
The uninitiated attach no particular significance to
the decisive { or, in my case, the word block.
Especially when they're still chewing over \context vs.\new.
Cheers,
Robin
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Re: Augmentation dot problem in 2.11.55
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Patrick Horgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Using yesterday's git-pull I see the same problem on Ubuntu 8.04. Today's git-pull is the same, I still see the same problem rendering. Neil is almost ready to push this fix, so it is not yet in git. -Patrick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote: I must note however that I strongly disagree with the approach you must read the manual first. Honestly, when you buy an house-hold appliance you first read the manual? I doubt. For making the first cup of coffee you won't read the manual. Later, when you want to make different kinds of exotic coffees you will. Though this is a bit off-topic. I agree only because it gives the appearance of a hostile atmosphere on the lilypond user's list which I know is not the truth. A one line RTFM answer is not good communication. If instead you said, well you could blah blah blah, and if you want more information, HERE's where you would look in the documentation, people would be more happily motivated. I also agree about the acronyms. I still, because of the way my memory works, have to go to the documenation page and compare the names to the acronyms to figure out where to look. Patrick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Expert question on named contexts
2008/8/10 Trevor Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
There may be better ways, but this works, and is adequate
for experimentation:
Thanks for this, Trevor; it's easier to see what's going on than using
\displayMusic.
I noticed something strange going on when using \addlyrics; perhaps it
should be documented as a `known issue'. Consider the following
snippet:
verseOne = \lyricmode { Joy to the world the Lord is come }
\score {
\new Voice = one \relative c'' {
\autoBeamOff
\time 2/4
c4 b8. a16 g4. f8 e4 d c2
}
\addlyrics { \verseOne }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto one \verseOne
}
You'd guess that this would produce a stave with two sets of lyrics,
but what actually happens is that \addlyrics renames the voice context
to `uniqueContext0', which means the \new Lyrics block can't find
anything to attach itself to. I presume this is a known bug, since the
helper function used by \addlyrics to retrieve the context id has a
TODO saying `It seems that this function rarely returns anything
useful.' :)
Regards,
Neil
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Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
2008/8/12 Patrick Horgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree only because it gives the appearance of a hostile atmosphere on the lilypond user's list which I know is not the truth. A one line RTFM answer is not good communication. Except for very rare cases (some questions about MacOS10.5, I think), I haven't seen /any/ one-line RTFM answer on any of these lists for months years. Even in very short answers, we use to provide at least one HTML link to the relevant LSR snippet or doc section. Us being concise doesn't necessarily imply that we're rude :-) (Graham's answer, which Nicholas referred to earlier, was also to be read with that in mind.) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
Ralph Palmer wrote: Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ? In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many of the discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a particular audience. I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to change the vocabulary based on the discussion and/or audience; actually, we already do. If Graham or Valentin uses NR or LSR in a response to a question or statement of mine, I'll understand. If I'm responding to an apparent newbie, using LM could possibly either confuse them more or turn them off to the LilyPond community in general. I don't understand a lot of the code discussions on the list (especially ones with long strings of Scheme coding), but that doesn't keep me from using the list. If you mean a private reply to your question I agree with you, but on the list, it will still be read by all. Patrick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:07:51 +0200 Valentin Villenave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except for very rare cases (some questions about MacOS10.5, I think), I haven't seen /any/ one-line RTFM answer on any of these lists for months years. Then you need to RTFML. Especially things from me. :) - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Robin Bannister wrote Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:36 PM
Robin Bannister wrote
A: 21 hits for \context Staff
B: 14 hits for \context { \Staff
I think I get it now.
Yup - you got it.
It must be that \context is overloaded,
does two quite different things.
Upon meeting a \context you must categorise it as A or B.
The uninitiated attach no particular significance to
the decisive { or, in my case, the word block.
Especially when they're still chewing over \context vs.\new.
It is to try to explain this that is on my TODO list.
For now, I'm just adding an extra paragraph or two to
the Learning Manual, but more will need to be done
later.
Cheers,
Robin
Trevor
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Re: [PATCH] Re: Duration dots and Bar lines on custom Staves.
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 22:15 +0100, Neil Puttock wrote: 2008/8/12 Joe Neeman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would say that the second case should just be false. Unless 'me' is a staff symbol, you should not call Staff_symbol::on_line(me). And if 'me' is a staff symbol, it is not a staff symbol referencer, so no one should be calling Staff_symbol_referencer::on_line(me). Ah yes, I really do get it now. :) Just a quick question before I commit this: Staff_symbol_referencer::on_line () is overloaded, but only on_line (Grob *, int) is used; the same applies to Staff_symbol_referencer::on_staff_line (). Can I junk the redundant functions? It's ok with me. Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Comments on Learning Manual 3 -- Fundamental concepts
Robin Bannister wrote Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:56 PM
Statistics for NR (pdf dated 2008-08-09, only slightly stale):
A: 21 hits for \context Staff
B: 14 hits for \context { \Staff
Or is it that I'm talking about A, and you are talking about B?
Yes, or more to the point, the Learning Manual was talking
about B.
Cheers,
Robin
Trevor
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Re: \textLengthOn - choosing which note to lengthen
Chris Snyder wrote Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:12 PM I'm running into a situation where \textLengthOn isn't behaving like I would expect it to. I have an organ piece where I'd like to put some text between the staves for the manuals. The text is a bit too long, however, so it hits the barline. Adding \textLengthOn seems to be the right solution. Unfortunately, I can't get it to do anything other than lengthen the space after the shortest note that occurs at the same time as the text, even the shorter note is in a different voice than the text. The expected/desired behavior for me would be to have that command lengthen the time interval for the note that the text is attached to - if it was attached to a whole-note in a 4/4 bar, for instance, I'd expect it to expand the whole bar to match the length of the text. Instead, it lengthens the length of the shortest note in the bar. The action of \textLengthOn can be better understood as extending the length of the moment in time at which it occurs. All notes which occur at a later musical moment will be displaced to the end of the text, whichever staff or voice they are in, in order to remain synchronous. This doesn't help you with your problem though. You can attach two or more texts to a single note - they appear one above the other. Might this help? -Chris Snyder ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Please forget LM MG NR IR SL AU
2008/8/13 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Then you need to RTFML. Especially things from me. :) - Graham Nah, I decided to skip all these months ago -- actually from the day you referred to me as a Callifornia Valley Girl :-) As a matter of fact, I've even configured a mail filter which prevents me from receiving your mails, and therefore I'm totally not answering you right here ;) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Still confused about context vs. new
lily-user at chubb.wattle.id.au writes:
I personally have *never* needed to use \new.
\context implicitly instantiates a new context if the
one named doesn't yet exist, so \new is redundant, *except* where you
want multiple distinct contexts with the same name, or you're using
unnamed contexts (which, internally, is the same thing)
I have found a place where \new is needed.
If you would like to make a StaffGroup consisting of a TabStaff (on the top)
and a Staff on the bottom, you would normally do:
\context StaffGroup
\context TabStaff {
\mymusic
}
\context Staff {
\mymusic
}
However, if you do this, LilyPond returns errors, and the TabStaff and Staff
are somehow combined (the clef shows on the TabStaff, for example).
However, if you do
\context StaffGroup
\context TabStaff {
\mymusic
}
\new Staff {
\mymusic
}
everything works as it should. Apparently, in the first usage, the unnamed
Staff context had been implicitly created and was unsuccessfully reused.
Given this result, it appears to me that \new is safer than \context for
unnamed context, so I believe it should be the preferred behavior.
Thanks,
Carl
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Re: spacing problem
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're looking for whatever goes into the 2nd argument of the Spring constructor. Hmm. In file note-spacing.cc, function Note_Spacing::get_spacing, which is used in Spacing_Spanner::musical_column_spacing, I see this code: Real distance = skys[LEFT].distance (skys[RIGHT]); Real min_dist = max (0.0, distance); ... Spring ret (max (0.0, ideal), min_dist); ... return ret; It seems to me that `distance' can even become zero. I can't say whether this can cause problems due to lack of knowledge of the source code. On the other hand, musical_column_spacing contains this code in case the above one isn't called: spring = Spring (max (base_note_space, options-increment_), options-increment_); This looks better, however it means that *all* notes, regardless of its duration, have a minimum width of `spacing-increment' (which is the Scheme parameter assotiated with `increment_'); the default value is the width of a note head. Can this be correct? Isn't this too Yep. small in tight situations? Note heads might (almost) touch... In tight situations, the rods take over the spacing. I think there is a small threshold that makes sure they don't touch. IMHO, this should be configurable. You could look into the Note_spacing class, which could decide to add some more fixed width if the left side is a dotted note, or perhaps scale up the fixed width for notes longer than 1/8th. (If you do anything, please make sure it does the right thing for polyphonic situations too.) I am not sure if you should use durations rather than dottedness. Should a dotted 64th need a lot of space to accomodate for the dot, or should it be treated like a very short note? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [PATCH] Re: Duration dots and Bar lines on custom Staves.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Neil Puttock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Staff_symbol_referencer::on_staff_line (). Can I junk the redundant functions? yes. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Second review of NR 2.7 Chords
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Carl D. Sorensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are pleased to announce the second review of NR 2.7 Chords. Thank you to those who reviewed this section in its previous draft. All of the recommended changes have been made, and we believe that this section is nearly final. Please take a few minutes to review this section of the documentation at http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/index.html Thanks in advance for your careful review, which helps to ensure the high quality of the LilyPond documentation. Hi Carl, This section looks very good! The only suggestion I have is to include a glossary entry for figured bass in section 2.7.3.1 -- figured bass is already in MG, so this would be an easy update. Thanks, Patrick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP -- Revised second draft of Fretted strings
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Carl D. Sorensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Lilypond Users and Developers,
We're pleased to announce a revised second draft of NR 2.4 Fretted strings.
This draft includes the new predefined-fretboards functionality that enables
transposable guitar fret diagrams.
Please proofread this section carefully, and try an example or two to see if
the documentation is clear (especially 2.4.1.5 through 2.4.1.7).
Hi Carl,
Wow! This section is very clearly written and very *comprehensive*.
It is a wonderful addition to the docs.
I only have suggestions for GDP policy:
** the subsubsection--unnumberedsubsubsec conversion
2.4.1.1: Duplicate the link to Collision resolution in @seealso
2.4.1.7: The entries in @predefined should be inside @code{...}
2.4.3.1: Use Installed Files: for the scm/output-lib.scm reference in @seealso
Thanks!
-Patrick
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