collision beam with staff-crossing beam
[originally sent to lilypond-devel, resent to this list after
recommendation, with slight modifications]
Folks,
consider this real-life example (omitting the unimportant voices).
\new Staff = R \relative c' {
\voiceTwo
d16[ b
\change Staff = L \stemUp
g
\change Staff = R \stemDown
b d b]
}
\new Staff = L \relative c' {
\clef bass
\voiceOne
g8[ s g]
}
There is an ugly clash between the two beams. Due to the cross-staff
beam, this is sort-of expected.
What can I do to improve the formatting? Note that globally
increasing the distance between the staves is not a possible solution
since this would ruin the layout of the whole piece.
Werner
inline: beam-crossbeam-collision.png___
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Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Am 12.02.2013 03:05, schrieb David Kastrup: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Urs Liska li...@ursliska.de wrote: Music Engraving on Metal Plates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345o3Wu95Qo That's awesome! However, despite the fact that this man is truly skilled, there are some imperfections. For example http://youtu.be/345o3Wu95Qo?t=2m23s - the eight rests appear to be a bit too low. Also notice that there's too much space between first two letters in Andantino (http://youtu.be/345o3Wu95Qo?t=6m2s). I'm not saying this to deprecate his work! I just mean that we (LilyPond) can do *even better* than hand-engraving :) Uh, he was giving a demo if I understood correctly. At any rate, if you say the eight rests appear to be a bit too low, you are not criticizing his craft but his design choices, since his craft would be at issue if _some_ rests appeared too low. LilyPond can do no better than reflecting _our_ design choices. The advantage LilyPond has over the hand engraver is that it does not need to say I don't make mistakes. The hand engraver puts down the staff lines, and short of throwing the plate(s) away and starting over, the layout has to fit those lines, and the page breaks have to match those bars in eternity. And give me that transposed for Bb is an inexpensive option, as well as can you play that for me?. Like with CNC-milling of violins, or the tuning of organs, the advantage of the craftsman is not being consistently more precise than a machine, but of being able to focus precision and perceived precision on those aspects where they really count for human observers. I found it somewhat sobering to see him cutting ledger lines and slurs freehand without ruler, premade stencils or other aids. Reminded me of a talk of Hermann Zapf well in his eighties, constant tremor in his hands, talking about the design of New Palatino. And then he takes a piece of chalk and draws some swift strokes with his shaky hands with the broadside of the chalk on the blackboard, and the shapes are perfectly curved and aimed and smooth and balanced and a total likeness to the letters and shapes he is discussing. :-) That's my impression too. Seeing him cutting stems and beams etc. freehand was incredible. And seeing him 'draw' a slur made me think of how many iterations with adjusted offsets *I* need to bring a slur to a form I'm happy with ... ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Seeing him cutting stems and beams etc. freehand was incredible. And seeing him 'draw' a slur made me think of how many iterations with adjusted offsets *I* need to bring a slur to a form I'm happy with ... Well, he has drawn stems, beams, slurs, etc. beforehand with a pencil. Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Am 12.02.2013 10:17, schrieb Werner LEMBERG: Seeing him cutting stems and beams etc. freehand was incredible. And seeing him 'draw' a slur made me think of how many iterations with adjusted offsets *I* need to bring a slur to a form I'm happy with ... Well, he has drawn stems, beams, slurs, etc. beforehand with a pencil. Well, even that is adorable. What one should note in this context is that he has drawn stems, beams, slurs etc. many thousand times before. Urs Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
accidentalstyle in the layout-block?
Dear community, I would like to define the accidentalstyle for a piece with four mouvements in the layoutblock. Is it possible to do that in version 2.16.2? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Truly inspiring to watch a master craftsman engraving. I too was astonished at the cutting of beams and stems without a rule, and the virtuoso slur engraving. When you consider slurs are thinner at the ends, there must a lessening of the graver pressure at the ends of the slur which is incredibly subtle. Astounding technique. The video shows the plates in the archives 'lovingly preserved'. I note that the Henle website now has plates for sale for all of 31 euros each, for which I understand you get a random plate. So have they decided to disperse the collection and throw it away? Seems a great pity to lose such a valuable reference library of engraved material. Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: collision beam with staff-crossing beam
What can I do to improve the formatting? Note that globally increasing the distance between the staves is not a possible solution since this would ruin the layout of the whole piece. After some thinking, I would like to change the `padding' for beams so that the skyline's distance from the beam gets enlarged. I tried \once \override Beam.skyline-horizontal-padding = #50 and surprisingly it does what I want in my score. Unfortunately, I don't understand why, and in the example I've sent to the list it has no effect. What is the number good for? And especially, what dimension? Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: accidentalstyle in the layout-block?
Stefan Thomas kontrapunktste...@gmail.com writes: Dear community, I would like to define the accidentalstyle for a piece with four mouvements in the layoutblock. Is it possible to do that in version 2.16.2? Sure, go ahead. URL:http://news.lilynet.net/?The-LilyPond-Report-23#post_scriptum_prelude_1_in_scheme -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Orientation of Ornaments
2013/2/12 Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com:
Mr. Morley:
Thank you again for the instructions:
mor =
#(define-event-function (parser location)() #{\tweak #'text \markup
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph #''scripts.mordent'' } -1
#}).
When compiling this error message appears:
error: wrong type for argument 1. Expecting string, found (quote
scripts.mordent'')
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph
#''scripts.mordent'' } -1.
Please point out my error.
Thank you for your kind attention.
Mark
Hi Mark,
please sent any request for help with LilyPond to the list. I tend to
ignore private mails or answer with long delay. For now I've quoted
your mail and cc'ed the user-list.
On topic:
My code compiles without problems on my machine with 2.16.1.
I assume a copy/paste-error or the wrong version (it will fail with 2.14.2)
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: Orientation of Ornaments
Thomas Morley thomasmorle...@googlemail.com writes:
2013/2/12 Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com:
Mr. Morley:
Thank you again for the instructions:
mor =
#(define-event-function (parser location)() #{\tweak #'text \markup
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph #''scripts.mordent'' } -1
I see '' instead of here two times.
error: wrong type for argument 1. Expecting string, found (quote
scripts.mordent'')
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph
#''scripts.mordent'' } -1.
Please point out my error.
On topic:
My code compiles without problems on my machine with 2.16.1.
I assume a copy/paste-error or the wrong version (it will fail with 2.14.2)
Looks very much like copy-paste error. Possible causes: inventive
news/mail reader, or pasting into a text processor rather than a proper
editor.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
On 02/12/2013 03:05 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
The advantage LilyPond has over the hand engraver is that it does not
need to say I don't make mistakes. The hand engraver puts down the
staff lines, and short of throwing the plate(s) away and starting over,
the layout has to fit those lines, and the page breaks have to match
those bars in eternity. And give me that transposed for Bb is an
inexpensive option, as well as can you play that for me?.
That's something of a dangerous assumption. Consider this little snippet, where
a trill-with-accidental is included according to the instructions on
articulations and ornamentations:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-attached-to-notes#articulations-and-ornamentations
{
\once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100
a'\trill^\markup{ \flat }
}
i.e. an A trilling with B flat. Now compare what comes out of a transposition
to the key of B flat:
{
\transpose bes c' {
\once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100
a'\trill^\markup{ \flat }
}
}
... which gives you a B natural trilling with C flat, whereas you _want_ to see
a B natural trilling with C natural.
This is a general problem of most computer notation programs, not just Lilypond
-- friends who work extensively on film/TV scores or who do regular workshops
with composition students in music colleges encounter these sorts of issues all
the time.
The other very typical one is seeing things like F-flats and B-sharps scattered
throughout an atonal score, because the automated transposition rules assume
tonal music.
Like with CNC-milling of violins, or the tuning of organs, the advantage
of the craftsman is not being consistently more precise than a machine,
but of being able to focus precision and perceived precision on those
aspects where they really count for human observers.
Indeed, and you can extend that to things like transposition -- even without the
mistakes in automation such as those described above, it may be convenient to
transpose a given note or passage in a slightly different way, to make it appear
nicer from the point of view of the player.
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Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
On 02/12/2013 03:05 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
The advantage LilyPond has over the hand engraver is that it does not
need to say I don't make mistakes. The hand engraver puts down the
staff lines, and short of throwing the plate(s) away and starting over,
the layout has to fit those lines, and the page breaks have to match
those bars in eternity. And give me that transposed for Bb is an
inexpensive option, as well as can you play that for me?.
That's something of a dangerous assumption. Consider this little
snippet, where a trill-with-accidental is included according to the
instructions on articulations and ornamentations:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-attached-to-notes#articulations-and-ornamentations
{
\once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100
a'\trill^\markup{ \flat }
}
i.e. an A trilling with B flat. Now compare what comes out of a
transposition to the key of B flat:
{
\transpose bes c' {
\once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100
a'\trill^\markup{ \flat }
}
}
Looks we are missing the proper command for this. With \pitchedTrill,
transposition works.
This is a general problem of most computer notation programs, not just
Lilypond -- friends who work extensively on film/TV scores or who do
regular workshops with composition students in music colleges
encounter these sorts of issues all the time.
As long as we provide a _proper_ command for that _and_ the user learns
them and does not put the names/notes/accidentals manually, things
should work fine.
The other very typical one is seeing things like F-flats and B-sharps
scattered throughout an atonal score, because the automated
transposition rules assume tonal music.
You can write a pitch-normalizer for that purpose. Not sure whether we
might not already have something like that.
--
David Kastrup
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lilypond-book/LateX Beamer: best rendering practice?
Hi all, As mentioned earlier, I am planning to deliver a Lilypond workshop together with a friend at this year's Linux Audio Conference. For the workshop slides, I already have a working setup using lilypond-book --pdf in combination with pdflatex and LaTeX Beamer. However, I am not entirely satisfied with the *on-screen* PDF display that my current setup provides. In particular, the BWV 861 comparison between Finale (PDF from [1]) and Lilypond (generated with lilypond-book --pdf and pdflatex) does not look half as convincing as the PNG comparison on the website [2], no matter which PDF viewer I use. Don't worry, I am not gonna embark on a discussion of barline thickness for on-screen PDF rendering :) But I would be interested in your suggestions re. a best Lilypond rendering practice for my following requirements: ===BEGIN LETTER TO SANTA=== - On-screen display must be of sufficient enough quality to convince also without printed examples. The benchmark is the BWV 861 comparison mentioned above. - Must use lilypond-book and LaTeX Beamer, but choice of Lilypond/LaTeX output format (PDF, PNG, PS, etc.) is flexible. - I don't care which viewer application (acroread, Okular, etc.) I have to use for the presentation, but it should ideally work under Linux. - Doesn't hurt if the final document looks good in print, too :) However, I'd be willing to implement two parallel rendering toolchains for on-screen and print. ===END LETTER TO SANTA=== I have a feeling this might boil down to a PDF vs. PNG showdown? - For high-quality LaTeX documents, PDF seems to be preferable to PNG, hence my initial choice of pflatex and lilypond-book --pdf. - But I get the impression that PNGs (rather than PDFs) might be the way to go for better-quality on-screen display of Lilypond output? Any comments or pointers in the right directions will be greatly appreciated! Best, flo.H References: [1] http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/pictures/pdf/bwv861-finale2008a.pdf;h=b4d64e6d06f68af78e3e39a0f49283b04a48be03;hb=HEAD [2] http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/essay-big-page.html#Engraved-examples-_0028BWV-861_0029 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: giving MetronomeMarks the space they need
Hi Keith, The other thing people do is make a separate context, analogous to Dynamics, usually called MarkLine. Yes, I do this (ScoreMarks). As written it ignores time-signatures but you could probably figure out how to have it acknowledge time signatures and align the first tempo properly over the time signature. That's the point-stencil hack, I believe. The other thing MetronomeMark does is move slightly left over a full-measure rest, which the books say to do but some people don't like. If these details can be added, then maybe we should include MarkLine in LilyPond. I agree that we should get MarkLine/ScoreMarks to do all the right things (there are still many it doesn't do), and include it as a standard context. Thanks, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond-book/LateX Beamer: best rendering practice?
- Original Message - From: Florian Hollerweger f...@mur.at To: Lilypond User List lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM Subject: lilypond-book/LateX Beamer: best rendering practice? Hi all, As mentioned earlier, I am planning to deliver a Lilypond workshop together with a friend at this year's Linux Audio Conference. For the workshop slides, I already have a working setup using lilypond-book --pdf in combination with pdflatex and LaTeX Beamer. - But I get the impression that PNGs (rather than PDFs) might be the way to go for better-quality on-screen display of Lilypond output? I guess the benefit of PNG is that you're not reliant on the PDF on-screen renderer to control the look of the output. However, if you create the PNGs you're going to use at their final size, you're still dependent on a relatively unsophisticated mechanism to fit the lines and features to the pixels. I would experiment with creating PNGs much larger than you require and resizing them with an image processing application. Also experiment with LilyPond's anti-alias-factor. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
lilypond-book: clean up w/o --output?
Hi all,
Trying to establish a workflow for lilypond-book and LaTeX, I am caught up in a
conflict between wanting to clean up the small files that lilypond-book
creates, but not wanting to use its --output flag.
I usually encapsulate my LaTeX-only projects in a single directory containing:
- pics/: subdir with graphics, e.g., 'my.png'
- my.tex: file with commands such as\includegraphics{pics/my.png}
- make.sh: custom script that renders output 'my.pdf' in main project dir and
cleans up any other files created in the process
I'd like to organize projects using lilypond-book in a similar way:
- pics/:subdir with graphics, e.g., 'my.png'
- code/:subdir with Lilypond files, e.g., 'my.ly'
- my.lytex: file with \includegraphics{pics/my.png} and
\lilypondfile{code/my.ly}
- make.sh: custom script that renders output 'my.pdf' in main project dir
and cleans up any other files created in the process
The desire to clean up temporary files suggests the use of lilypond-book's
--output flag, as indicated at [1]:
lilypond-book --output=out my.lytex
cd out
pdflatex yourfile.tex
mv yourfile.pdf ..
cd ..
rm -r out/
However, this means I am *changing the directory from which pdflatex is run*,
so I'd need to change paths to any included files (e.g., graphics) in my.lytex:
\includegraphics{pics/my.png} - \includegraphics{../pics/my.png}
\lilypondfile{code/my.ly} - \lilypondfile{../code/my.ly}
A first-world problem, admittedly, but it can be annoying if I start off with a
LaTeX-only project, to which I later decide to add some Lilypond code.
Any ideas? Might one even dream of a --cleanup flag for lilypond-book? :)
Best,
flo.H
References:
[1]
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/usage/invoking-lilypond_002dbook#Command-line-options
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Re: lilypond-book/LateX Beamer: best rendering practice?
Hi Phil, I'll go and do as you say, but wouldn't I be facing the problem that pdflatex has its own ideas at which resolution to actually render PNGs? That's precisely why I have ended up using graphics in PDF format whenever I can with pdflatex, but maybe I should investigate LaTeX rendering options other than *pdf*latex... Best, flo.H Phil Holmes wrote: I guess the benefit of PNG is that you're not reliant on the PDF on-screen renderer to control the look of the output. However, if you create the PNGs you're going to use at their final size, you're still dependent on a relatively unsophisticated mechanism to fit the lines and features to the pixels. I would experiment with creating PNGs much larger than you require and resizing them with an image processing application. Also experiment with LilyPond's anti-alias-factor. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond-book/LateX Beamer: best rendering practice?
Florian Hollerweger f...@mur.at writes: Hi Phil, I'll go and do as you say, but wouldn't I be facing the problem that pdflatex has its own ideas at which resolution to actually render PNGs? It just packages them. It is up to you with what resolution you prepare them before inclusion into PDFLaTeX. That's precisely why I have ended up using graphics in PDF format whenever I can with pdflatex, With print, very much the best idea. Maybe it is worth checking out a number of PDF previewers, too. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
On 02/12/2013 12:48 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Looks we are missing the proper command for this. With \pitchedTrill, transposition works. Yes, absolutely. A proper command would also help with the appearance -- as it stands getting the accidental placed just right over the trill sign is a bit finnicky. Bear in mind it's not just trills but _any_ ornament (prall, mordent, turn, ...) where this applies, and some of them the accidental may be above or below (or conceivably, one above _and_ one below). One issue with \pitchedTrill: AFAICS it operates only with a trillSpan. It's not obvious from the docs how to get pitchedTrill notation without an extender line. As long as we provide a _proper_ command for that _and_ the user learns them and does not put the names/notes/accidentals manually, things should work fine. Yes. This is something where LP probably has a potential edge over WYSIWYG editors, because the ornament's appearance doesn't need to be calculated in real time as it were. You can write a pitch-normalizer for that purpose. Not sure whether we might not already have something like that. There's a snippet to that extent somewhere in the repository. At some point in the past I tried to rework that into a general framework for setting the rules of transposition, but I couldn't get it to a satisfactory conclusion :-( I can probably prepare a spec for what I'd like to see in terms of transposition rules, if that would be helpful. The short version: you need to have a variety of rule sets (at least 2: chromatic and tonal), you need to be able to switch arbitrarily between the two (e.g. some music may have tonal parts and atonal parts). ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
On 02/12/2013 01:24 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
we have a snippet
Documentation/snippets/transposing-pitches-with-minimum-accidentals-smart-transpose.ly
The problem with this snippet is that it's conceived as a function that wraps
a given piece of music. But as I recall, if you put a transposition function
_outside_ the call to naturalize-music, that transposition will not benefit from
the naturalization rules.
What you actually want to see in a given passage is something like,
{
\set Staff.transposition = #'chromatic
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
\set Staff.transposition = #'tonal
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
The above would not affect the written music in concert pitch, but would be
called in to play if the music was ever passed through transposition.
Note that the transposition rule should be possible to apply at all levels,
Score, StaffGroup, Staff, Voice.
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Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
On 02/12/2013 01:24 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
we have a snippet
Documentation/snippets/transposing-pitches-with-minimum-accidentals-smart-transpose.ly
The problem with this snippet is that it's conceived as a function
that wraps a given piece of music.
Just like \transposition, it transforms music.
But as I recall, if you put a transposition function _outside_ the
call to naturalize-music, that transposition will not benefit from the
naturalization rules.
Sure.
What you actually want to see in a given passage is something like,
{
\set Staff.transposition = #'chromatic
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
\set Staff.transposition = #'tonal
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
That does not make all that much sense: transposition works at a time
when contexts are not live or active, so context properties are not
useful generally. They _could_ be used for manipulating the manner in
which _quoted_ music is getting transposed: this happens on-the-fly
during context interpretation.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: you need to have a variety of rule sets (at least 2: chromatic and tonal), you need to be able to switch arbitrarily between the two (e.g. some music may have tonal parts and atonal parts). +1 I had encountered a piece that needed different transposition rules for different parts. Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
On 02/12/2013 02:50 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
What you actually want to see in a given passage is something like,
{
\set Staff.transposition = #'chromatic
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
\set Staff.transposition = #'tonal
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
That does not make all that much sense: transposition works at a time
when contexts are not live or active, so context properties are not
useful generally. They _could_ be used for manipulating the manner in
which _quoted_ music is getting transposed: this happens on-the-fly
during context interpretation.
Well, we can discuss the right way to do it in terms of Lilypond's notation, but
the fact remains that musically what you want to be able to say is,
{
%% If you transpose the following, please do so in a chromatic way
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
%% If you transpose the following, please do so in a tonal way
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
A function that wraps, like naturalizeMusic, doesn't cut it, because if I do
something like,
\naturalizeMusic {
% a chromatic passage
% a tonal passage
% a chromatic passage
}
then the naturalization will affect both the chromatic _and_ tonal passages, and
that's undesirable.
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RE: Orientation of Ornaments
Mr. Kastrup:
Thank you for your reply and instructions. Changing the two apostrophes to
one quote allowed the file to compile.
As a beginning student of Lilypond (about six months) my inquiries are at a
basic level. I appreciate your patience and that of others in the user's
group.
Although the file (see below) is generated, the mordents are above the chord
rather than to the left of the middle pitches.
mor =
#(define-event-function (parser location)() #{ \tweak #'text \markup
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph #scripts.mordent } -1
#})
\relative c''
{
\once \set fingeringDirections = #'(left)
g, c\mor e r8 d' f
\once \set fingeringDirections = #'(left)
c e\mor g 4 r8 e c' |
}
Where is my error now?
Again, I thank you for your kind and patient attention.
Mark
-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
David Kastrup
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 3:18 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Orientation of Ornaments
Thomas Morley thomasmorle...@googlemail.com writes:
2013/2/12 Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com:
Mr. Morley:
Thank you again for the instructions:
mor =
#(define-event-function (parser location)() #{\tweak #'text \markup
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph #''scripts.mordent'' } -1
I see '' instead of here two times.
error: wrong type for argument 1. Expecting string, found (quote
scripts.mordent'')
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph
#''scripts.mordent'' } -1.
Please point out my error.
On topic:
My code compiles without problems on my machine with 2.16.1.
I assume a copy/paste-error or the wrong version (it will fail with
2.14.2)
Looks very much like copy-paste error. Possible causes: inventive
news/mail reader, or pasting into a text processor rather than a proper
editor.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Orientation of Ornaments
Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com writes:
Mr. Kastrup:
Thank you for your reply and instructions. Changing the two apostrophes to
one quote allowed the file to compile.
As a beginning student of Lilypond (about six months) my inquiries are at a
basic level. I appreciate your patience and that of others in the user's
group.
Although the file (see below) is generated, the mordents are above the chord
rather than to the left of the middle pitches.
mor =
#(define-event-function (parser location)() #{ \tweak #'text \markup
{ \fontsize #5 \musicglyph #scripts.mordent } -1
#})
\relative c''
{
\once \set fingeringDirections = #'(left)
g, c\mor e r8 d' f
\once \set fingeringDirections = #'(left)
c e\mor g 4 r8 e c' |
}
Where is my error now?
You have been given a working example with the correct property names,
and LilyPond puts out a flurry of warnings about the wrong property
names:
warning: cannot find property type-check for `fingeringDirections'
(translation-type?). perhaps a typing error?
Computers are traditionally bad at divination, so starting with
copypaste rather than retyping things and/or trying to go by memory
might be a good idea.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: giving MetronomeMarks the space they need
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:31:12 -0800, Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote: The other thing people do is make a separate context, analogous to Dynamics, usually called MarkLine. Yes, I do this (ScoreMarks). You reported a problem with ScoreMarks https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2013-01/msg00895.html Others solved that problem with MarkLine https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-02/msg00169.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: giving MetronomeMarks the space they need
Hi Keith, Others solved that problem with MarkLine https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-02/msg00169.html Unfortunately, that fix doesn't solve the problem I posted about (and still have). Thanks anyway, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: collision beam with staff-crossing beam
Hi Werner, On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org wrote: consider this real-life example (omitting the unimportant voices). [..] There is an ugly clash between the two beams. Due to the cross-staff beam, this is sort-of expected. What can I do to improve the formatting? If the line breaking isn't expected to change, i think that the most reliable solution would be to explicitely set staff distance in this particular system. You have to put this override at the musical moment when the system begins (in any stave). If you have more than two staves, you have to specify remaining distances. \overrideProperty #Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-system-details #'((alignment-distances . (12))) (this is the old syntax, i haven't upgraded to dot-separated lists yet) hth, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A must-see for anybody on this list
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
On 02/12/2013 02:50 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
What you actually want to see in a given passage is something like,
{
\set Staff.transposition = #'chromatic
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
\set Staff.transposition = #'tonal
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
That does not make all that much sense: transposition works at a time
when contexts are not live or active, so context properties are not
useful generally. They _could_ be used for manipulating the manner in
which _quoted_ music is getting transposed: this happens on-the-fly
during context interpretation.
Well, we can discuss the right way to do it in terms of Lilypond's
notation, but the fact remains that musically what you want to be able
to say is,
{
%% If you transpose the following, please do so in a chromatic way
c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage
% will be chromatic
%% If you transpose the following, please do so in a tonal way
c' d' e' f' % whereas this will be treated tonally
}
A function that wraps, like naturalizeMusic, doesn't cut it, because
if I do something like,
\naturalizeMusic {
% a chromatic passage
% a tonal passage
% a chromatic passage
}
then the naturalization will affect both the chromatic _and_ tonal
passages, and that's undesirable.
If you want different passages in music behave differently when included
in a single \transpose command, that more or less means that they need
to use different callbacks at least in some anchoring expressions (like
we use a relative-callback for doing \relative on diverse expressions).
But how would one deal with quoted music?
One implementation strategy might be to _not_ use callbacks for
transposing at all, but instead have a callback for cleaning up after
transposition. Those callbacks would then be exercised only when
scorifying (meaning that they would not bother about correcting
accidentals to the printable range when transposing back and forth).
Everything before that stage would not be restricted concerning its
accidentals (like having 4 sharps on a note).
Still not sure how this should combine with quoting, though.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: bounty hack for some (non-Mike) Schemer out there
Hi Mike, You won't be able to do this with a metronome mark because that Grob is an item whereas the text spanner is a spanner, meaning it can take up multiple columns witthout stretching the music too much. So I'd use a customized text spanner in a separate context (like Dynamics...or you could create your own). I've already got one (ScoreMarks), so I'll do it there. Thanks, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Fingering with guide indications difference 2.16.2 - 2.17.11
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Nick Payne nick.pa...@internode.on.netwrote: The code below (I think it might have come from David Nalesnik) builds without any error on both 2.16.2 and 2.17.11, but the output is correct on 2.16.2 and incorrect on 2.17.11. On 2.17.11, the fingerings with guide indication that are to the left become centred on the note - on 2.16 they stay in the correct position to the left. Is this difference anything to do with the fingering changes that were introduced earlier in 2.17? Nick Thanks, Nick. This has been submitted as issue 3171 : http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3171 Ralph ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Partcombine, lyrics and colliding dots
Hi!
I'm trying to use partcombine and lyrics by using a hidden voice for
the melody, as suggested by Daniel E. Moctezuma at
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general/73934
The only problem is that the dots are pushed from their normal
positions, apparently by the dots in the hidden voice.
I tried many tricks, such as setting stencil to false, setting
dot-count to 0, setting grob extents and offsets, removing
Dot_column_engraver. Nothing helps. Transposing the hidden voice
helps, but I don't consider it a reliable solution. Also, it
interferes with key changes in the melody.
Any suggestions how to prevent the hidden dots from pushing the
real ones?
I'm using Lilypond 2.16.1 from Fedora 18.
\version 2.16.1
soprano = {
e'4.
}
alto = {
c'4.
}
verseOne = \lyricmode {
Dots
}
\score {
\new Staff = upper
\new Voice {
\partcombine \soprano \alto
}
\new Voice = soprano-hidden {
\override Slur #'transparent = ##t
\override Tie #'transparent = ##t
\override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
\hideNotes \soprano
}
\addlyrics \verseOne
}
--
Regards,
Pavel Roskin
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Reimplement figuremode with links to notes for correct transposition?
On 12 February 2013 12:40, Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: On 02/12/2013 03:05 AM, David Kastrup wrote: The advantage LilyPond has over the hand engraver is that it does not need to say I don't make mistakes. The hand engraver puts down the staff lines, and short of throwing the plate(s) away and starting over, the layout has to fit those lines, and the page breaks have to match those bars in eternity. And give me that transposed for Bb is an inexpensive option, as well as can you play that for me?. That's something of a dangerous assumption. Consider this little snippet, where a trill-with-accidental is included according to the instructions on articulations and ornamentations: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-attached-to-notes#articulations-and-ornamentations Speaking of accidentals not correctly handled when using transposition: the current implementation of figured bass in LilyPond is only graphical (contrary to chords/chordmode). It is possible to add accidentals to the figures with + ! -, but since figuremode is not (currently) somehow linked to notes, these accidentals are not correctly modified when the piece is transposed. I do not see how one could do that, nor if this feature is really asked/needed a lot, the amount of work or possible compatibility breaks, hence before submitting a feature request to bug-lilypond, I would like to know your thoughts about this. Cheers, Xavier -- Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Add tempo spanners
On 4 February 2013 16:01, Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Hello all! A few weeks ago, in response to Mike Solomon's call for features and bugs, I posted a request: 2. Allowing a text markup (especially a MetronomeMark) to have a minimum measure length. This would avoid collisions, particularly where there are lots of multi-measure rests (e.g., orchestral parts). His response was: #2 is doable via a hack. Minimum lengths can only work if you use spanners, but you can hijack the tempo print function for a text spanner (and suppress the line afterwards) and then create a scheme engraver for text spanner that uses whatever as the left bound and the next bar line's non-musical paper column as the right bound. Or you could just use the existing engraver and use the last note in the measure as a bound, although this will potentially create uneven spacing in a measure. You'll have to manually put this TextSpanner in the topmost context and/or use ly:side-position-interface::move-to-extremal-staff (I'd recommend the former, as the latter is powerful but falls in the category of LilyPond black magic). Make sure to use springs and rods and set a minimum-length - there's an example in the docs with a hairpin or glissando or something spanner-y that does this. Is there anyone out there who can work on this with me? I've got some money to put towards the implementation. It would be great to have a TempoTextSpanner, for example in order to handle common notation such as rit. - - - - a tempo or rall - - - - I do not see this request tracked yet. Bug squad, could you add it? Maybe Kieren or Mike could give a proper description. Link to the original thread: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2013-02/msg00064.html Cheers, Xavier -- Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Add tempo spanners
Xavier Scheuer writes: On 4 February 2013 16:01, Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Hello all! A few weeks ago, in response to Mike Solomon's call for features and bugs, I posted a request: 2. Allowing a text markup (especially a MetronomeMark) to have a minimum measure length. This would avoid collisions, particularly where there are lots of multi-measure rests (e.g., orchestral parts). His response was: #2 is doable via a hack. Minimum lengths can only work if you use spanners, but you can hijack the tempo print function for a text spanner (and suppress the line afterwards) and then create a scheme engraver for text spanner that uses whatever as the left bound and the next bar line's non-musical paper column as the right bound. Or you could just use the existing engraver and use the last note in the measure as a bound, although this will potentially create uneven spacing in a measure. You'll have to manually put this TextSpanner in the topmost context and/or use ly:side-position-interface::move-to-extremal-staff (I'd recommend the former, as the latter is powerful but falls in the category of LilyPond black magic). Make sure to use springs and rods and set a minimum-length - there's an example in the docs with a hairpin or glissando or something spanner-y that does this. Is there anyone out there who can work on this with me? I've got some money to put towards the implementation. It would be great to have a TempoTextSpanner, for example in order to handle common notation such as rit. - - - - a tempo or rall - - - - I do not see this request tracked yet. Thanks for the report, Xavier, but I think we already have this feature in Lilypond, don't we? See: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/writing-text#text-spanners which documents syntax such as: \override TextSpanner.bound-details.left.text = rit. b1\startTextSpan e,\stopTextSpan Bug squad, could you add it? I'm not clear on what you are proposing. Could you give an example of the new syntax? Maybe Kieren or Mike could give a proper description. OK, well, if Kieren, Mike or you could propose the syntax then we'll have a complete feature request and sure, we can add it. Cheers, Colin. -- Colin Hall ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Add tempo spanners
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Colin Hall colingh...@gmail.com wrote: It would be great to have a TempoTextSpanner, for example in order to handle common notation such as rit. - - - - a tempo or rall - - - - I do not see this request tracked yet. Thanks for the report, Xavier, but I think we already have this feature in Lilypond, don't we? See: If I'm understanding the request correctly this functionality isn't currently available. Text spanners live in the staff. TempoTextSpanners would live in the score and be set like current tempo marks (bold and above the system). I've often wanted this feature as well. -Jay ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Add tempo spanners
Jay Anderson writes: On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Colin Hall colingh...@gmail.com wrote: It would be great to have a TempoTextSpanner, for example in order to handle common notation such as rit. - - - - a tempo or rall - - - - I do not see this request tracked yet. Thanks for the report, Xavier, but I think we already have this feature in Lilypond, don't we? See: If I'm understanding the request correctly this functionality isn't currently available. Text spanners live in the staff. TempoTextSpanners would live in the score and be set like current tempo marks (bold and above the system). I've often wanted this feature as well. Thanks, Jay, that makes it much clearer. Just need some proposed syntax now. Cheers, Colin. -- Colin Hall ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: giving MetronomeMarks the space they need
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 05:23:08 -0800, Kieren MacMillan
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:
By default, MetronomeMarks have settings requesting specifically that
LilyPond ignore them when spacing notes and rests, analogous to \textLengthOff
I use the two overrides below.
There are still irregularities
Can these things be easily regularized?
There seems to be a complicated historical reason for the irregularities. Some
special-case behavior around full-measure rests was added with the fix to the issue
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=684 -- the same fix that
gave us options on what tempo marks attach to, including the ability to put tempo
marks properly over the time-signature.
But, we can set the options to ignore full-measure rests, and avoid the
irregularities. I am now very satisfied with the four overrides below:
\version 2.17.4
% The first two measures is better after the fix for issue 1700, version 2.17.4
\paper {ragged-right = ##t indent = 0 }
\relative f { \compressFullBarRests
\key b\major \tempo Larghissimo 4=30 gis'4( dis' gis dis')
\tempo Più mosso R1*2
\bar || \key b\major
\tempo Molto adagio R1*8
\tempo Meno dis,4( fis ais dis')\break
\tempo Più mosso R1*2
\tempo Meno mosso R1
\tempo Più mosso b,,2 dis
\bar || \key bes\major
\tempo Molto Adagio R1
\tempo Presto d4 f f' d'\break
\bar || \time 3/4 \key e\major
\tempo Meno mosso R2.
\bar || \key g\minor
\tempo Larghissimo g,,4 bes d g2.\bar |.
}
\layout { \context { \Score
\override MetronomeMark #'extra-spacing-width = #'(-1 . 0.5)
\override MetronomeMark #'Y-offset = #5
\override MetronomeMark #'break-align-symbols =
#'(time-signature key-signature) % omit key-signature to obey the textbooks
\override MetronomeMark #'non-break-align-symbols =
#'(paper-column-interface)
} }
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