Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
2013/12/6 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: Having worked for two corporations that have fairly extensive (and stringent) visual identity and branding guidelines (colors, typeface, formatting, etc.), I've learned that there are ways to make an obvious change between two things while still making them look like they go together. A suggestion from my colleague: for a long time he kept confusing LM and NR, and he said that it would be nice if (for example) they had different color schemes so that one will know where to look at things (hmm, i remember seeing it in the blue manual...). Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net writes: The U.S. has the concept of fair use see 17 U.S.C. § 107 But we want LilyPond to be distributable in more than just the U.S.A. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: David Kastrup d...@gnu.org schrieb: We need to figure out how we can provide style sheets, similar to how LaTeX makes it possible to define document classes (layout definitions and tools) and packages (raw functionality packaged into coherent interfaces). Moving in the direction where this is possible also takes some pressure of stable/unstable development and features/fixes: something which comes in its own, optionally used file is not disruptive to the core stability. You can imagine that I like this idea ;-) Would also make it more straightforward for editors to implement functionality based on LilyPond or Scheme code that's not part of LilyPond itself. Is this just a thought or has there already been discussion about this? I think this has been mentioned a few times as an idea. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/6 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: Having worked for two corporations that have fairly extensive (and stringent) visual identity and branding guidelines (colors, typeface, formatting, etc.), I've learned that there are ways to make an obvious change between two things while still making them look like they go together. A suggestion from my colleague: for a long time he kept confusing LM and NR, and he said that it would be nice if (for example) they had different color schemes so that one will know where to look at things (hmm, i remember seeing it in the blue manual...). Learning - Green book Using - White book Notation - Blue book Extending - Red book Internals - Black book A complete color _scheme_ might be distracting, but it may make sense to have a title or side bar or other obvious always on-screen element color-coded. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Johan Vromans jvrom...@squirrel.nl writes: Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk writes: A real example using a template which provides an SATB choir on two staves with lyrics between them and a piano staff with accompaniment is attached. I've been using a similar approach for SLHML choir, with a skeleton template (attached). I haven't been able to add this to LSR since it's not a snippet file, but a package of associated files. A nice feature is that any context left without input is not printed, so the same template could be used for SA and piano, just piano, a variable number of verses, etc. Exactly. \use SA-TB-B-template An important 'feature' of the hypothetical \use (as opposed to \include) would be that it can do things in the beginning (e.g., settings), and at the end (e.g., handle the \score part(s)). Well, actually \include can be made to do that perfectly well since the \score parts are handled by hooks. But there is no nice user interface. The LaTeX distinction between class and package makes another point: there must always be exactly one document class, but you can have an arbitrary number of packages since those are providing features, not a layout. With LilyPond, the exactly one relation for document classes would not really hold: basically we have one per \score block. I'm not saying that we should copy the nomenclature, but differentiating between something providing a layout (or rather, all relevant output blocks) and something providing functionality makes sense. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work
2013/12/6 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: A suggestion from my colleague: for a long time he kept confusing LM and NR, and he said that it would be nice if (for example) they had different color schemes so that one will know where to look at things (hmm, i remember seeing it in the blue manual...). Learning - Green book Using - White book Notation - Blue book Extending - Red book Internals - Black book A complete color _scheme_ might be distracting, but it may make sense to have a title or side bar or other obvious always on-screen element color-coded. +1 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Extending LilyPond with packages
Hi Urs and all, I really have to document, what I did with my packages and what ideas are behind them. It would need /some/ way to make them a public usable product, meaning, it has to be documented and a little bit restructured, but it has a lot of the mentioned features. So I try to summarize some of its ideas: * Calling it lalily, was a little joke, because it's like la-tex and it also has templates, wich act a bit like document-classes. * I always wanted to automatically include my own extensions, so including lalily.ly implicitly include a whole bunch of files - optionally once - in dedicated places inside the lalily folder *and* the current project/document folder. * Like the above mentioned templates, I can register layout-, midi- and paper-blocks by name (in fact it's a list or better a path) and then register those names for score/book-creation in the dedicated path. * I have commands, wich produce the actual scores, bookparts or books, that can act conditionally. For most of that commands, the condition is does the parser-output-name match the current file-name?, so it only happens, if the file is compiled directly, but not, if it is only included to store the music. * Editing the music often means to tweak grobs and to force breaks or page-breaks. This is done by the edition engraver. * Sometimes editing means to place a comment/note in the score. Those comments shall be listed in a file and optionally in a markup-list (at the end of the file) with barnumber and context identifier. This is done by a command, wich outputs TextScript elements with an annotation property. (It might be better to divide Annotation-Grob and tracking the comments for the list ...) All these things grew with my own needs/wishes/ideas so they will need some restructuring/renaming/rewhatever, but I think, there are bunch of useful things in this context. The Template mechanism: --- A template in this context is a music-function with a signature (parser location piece options)(list? list?) The piece argument is a path, technically a list. It points to the current music. lalily stores a current music path/folder before it enters a template and resets it to its previous state, when the template function returns. There are function putMusic path music and getMusic path, that put/get music in the given path relative to the current path. So if I have a template that gets its music from #'(violin) and this template is called with a current path of #'(my impressive music), it gets the music stored at #'(my impressive music violin) And I can call another template with \callTemplate path-of-template path-of-music options. (There are some more ... most scores are for choir, so I often have to loop over choir-voices/parts) Now I can composite my music from a dedicated pattern while storing the music in separate file. And with my conditional score-creation, I have output for proof-reading (and hearing) and can savely include this file in a project file, that collects all music files. The fact, that the template-music-functions are called in a defined manner but are actually music-functions means, that on can place anything in a template. The Edition Engraver The edition engraver stores the edition modifications, like the music is stored, in a tree, where each element is addressed by a path #'(barnumber moment-in-measure music-path context-path) The edition engraver itself receives a path on creation, for which it is listening. The standard lalily-layout sets on for the current Score with the current music-folder and one for each voice with any edition-manager-path of any parent context. Now my templates usually let every Staff consist of a path, addressing the containing voice, so the voice inherit it. The edition-engraver now looks in the (global) tree for elements at the path #`(,barnumber ,moment ,@path-of-engraver) and applies them to the context (or the named parent context) The automatic inclusions lalily looks for files in dedicated folders and in the current folder and includes them. For this to work it extracts the path from the location argument (of some music, scheme or void function), normalizes it (removes all .. and . elements) and then appends the relative file-path. It then does include it with (ly:parser-include-string! parser \\include \~A\ file-path) (or the like) If the file-paths are normalized, I can store them in a global list and look, if I already included them, so I only include them once. Technical parts --- Most of my scheme-stuff is placed in modules, which can be loaded, because I extend %load-path with the path to the modules, I created. No I can simply say (use-modules (lalily lascm)). This is done in init.scm. This also lead to a bunch of functions, placed in scheme-modules, which are my personal shortcuts and should better be placed in my personal to be included files ... I am working on it. Another thing is: I
Re: Images from snippets
snippet-icon = 85x85+95+107 Then these lines could produce the corresponding image: lilypond -fpng example.ly convert -crop 85x85+95+107 example.png example-icon.png This seems somewhat inconvenient to me (too manual). But i think we should rather speak about implementation details when we *have* a HTML frontend Just to make sure, I am understood correctly: The manual thing is the numbers, the script should take them automatically from the file and use them in convert. Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Images from snippets
2013/12/6 Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de: snippet-icon = 85x85+95+107 Then these lines could produce the corresponding image: lilypond -fpng example.ly convert -crop 85x85+95+107 example.png example-icon.png This seems somewhat inconvenient to me (too manual). But i think we should rather speak about implementation details when we *have* a HTML frontend Just to make sure, I am understood correctly: The manual thing is the numbers, the script should take them automatically from the file and use them in convert. Yes, i understand. But i would prefer not to ask snippet authors to add such numbers to the files if possible. One of my highest priorities is to keep things simple - so simple that noone would ever think i'd add this snippet, but i don't have time to fill all description fields. :-) best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Images from snippets
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/6 Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de: snippet-icon = 85x85+95+107 Then these lines could produce the corresponding image: lilypond -fpng example.ly convert -crop 85x85+95+107 example.png example-icon.png This seems somewhat inconvenient to me (too manual). But i think we should rather speak about implementation details when we *have* a HTML frontend Just to make sure, I am understood correctly: The manual thing is the numbers, the script should take them automatically from the file and use them in convert. Yes, i understand. But i would prefer not to ask snippet authors to add such numbers to the files if possible. One of my highest priorities is to keep things simple - so simple that noone would ever think i'd add this snippet, but i don't have time to fill all description fields. :-) Well, one does not need numbers. One can just use a tag- or tweak- like command on elements that should be included in the icon, and then the bounding rectangle of all those is taken. Possibly always including the staff lines on the given stretch. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Images from snippets
Well, one does not need numbers. One can just use a tag- or tweak- like command on elements that should be included in the icon, and then the bounding rectangle of all those is taken. Possibly always including the staff lines on the given stretch. I considered that, too. My reasoning might be wrong, but it was as follows: 1. there should be a fixed aspect ratio for a proper thumbnail look on an overview page, this is easier with numbers of pixels instead of bounding boxes. (desired aspect ratio still to be defined) 2. for a first visual impression, the whole object is often not necessary. In the example I gave, the hairpin does not have to be very long (not the whole hairpin needs to be shown), just the combination of hairpin and text must be visible 3. one can still invent some automatic default way to generate such an icon, in case the snippet-author did not supply the information. But a human decision what is the best part/detail will show a clearer message in 95% of the cases. Joram attachment: crop.png___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Images from snippets
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes: Well, one does not need numbers. One can just use a tag- or tweak- like command on elements that should be included in the icon, and then the bounding rectangle of all those is taken. Possibly always including the staff lines on the given stretch. I considered that, too. My reasoning might be wrong, but it was as follows: 1. there should be a fixed aspect ratio for a proper thumbnail look on an overview page, this is easier with numbers of pixels instead of bounding boxes. (desired aspect ratio still to be defined) 2. for a first visual impression, the whole object is often not necessary. In the example I gave, the hairpin does not have to be very long (not the whole hairpin needs to be shown), just the combination of hairpin and text must be visible 3. one can still invent some automatic default way to generate such an icon, in case the snippet-author did not supply the information. But a human decision what is the best part/detail will show a clearer message in 95% of the cases. With that image, you'd tag the \ and the poco. That _is_ a human decision. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
From: Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 6:34 PM It's not so much about texinfo but... ... but someone who is an experienced web page designer and/or JavaScript programmer/user. The separation between content and presentation is already there due to the very nature of texinfo. As a starter, it would help us a lot if such a person analyzes, say, the top-level lilypond web page, giving recommendations how to improve, ideally in small, logical steps. A complete redesign starting from scratch is *much* harder to implement, I believe. Werner Hi Werner, It looks like Carl Peterson is taking this on, so you have your man. I did have a very brief look at the home page however * why are you out-sourcing tracking (google analytics)? * why are you using DOM scripting (javascript http requests)? It makes no sense for the server to send a page to a browser, only for the browser to call the server again for more data to complete the page. Why is this data not being included in the page by the server in the first place? Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Hi, 2013/12/6 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net: I did have a very brief look at the home page however * why are you out-sourcing tracking (google analytics)? I suppose that when that was decided upon, there may have been no good free alternatives to Google Analytics. But now there is for example Piwik - we're using it for the blog, and i think it's good. Paul, do you think it would be a good fit for lilypond.org? best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Extending LilyPond with packages
Hi Jan-Peter, 2013/12/6 Jan-Peter Voigt jp.vo...@gmx.de: Hi Urs and all, I really have to document, what I did with my packages and what ideas are behind them. It would need /some/ way to make them a public usable product, meaning, it has to be documented and a little bit restructured, but it has a lot of the mentioned features. [...] I'm very sorry that i don't have time to look closely at LaLily, but from what i see, it's very interesting and a move in the right direction. Probably OrchestralLily (http://kainhofer.com/orchestrallily/Motivation.html#Motivation) would also be worth further investigating. best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
- Original Message - From: Janek Warchol janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:36 PM The way many Windows installers work is that they present you as a user with a list of components to select to be installed, of which some will be selected (or not) by default. There's no reason not to have Frescobaldi bundled with the installer but deselectable if you don't want it. +1 What about the option of having other editors such as Denemo as well as an option? I myself prefer Frescobaldi, but I know that a few prefer Denemo. I feel it to be a bit unfair to only have one option bundled with an installer. Frescobaldi is a text editor + previewer. It's simple and intuitive. I've never heard of anyone that doesn't like it, though some may prefer other choices. Denemo is GUI based notation software. Has a learning curve. Hides lilypond. Many do not like it, myself included (sorry if I offend anyone). Lilypond _is_ text based. Do you want to hide that or facilitate its use? If you want to hide it, then you may also consider Musescore and any others that can export to lilypond format. This is a good idea, but as David already said, it's actually not easy to implement. :-/ Hey, what about this (just for now): since it's hard to actually install additional software, we could at least have links to Frescobaldi/Denemo webpages in Lily's installer, so that the users could install them themselves. David, this should be easy to do? Janek What exactly is not easy to implement in Joseph Rushton Wakeling's suggestion of an optional frescobaldi install from lilypond's windows installer? Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
From: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 11:16 AM * why are you out-sourcing tracking (google analytics)? I suppose that when that was decided upon, there may have been no good free alternatives to Google Analytics. But now there is for example Piwik - we're using it for the blog, and i think it's good. Paul, do you think it would be a good fit for lilypond.org? best, Janek AWstats? Webalizer? Just about every web hosting server out there has one or both of these. Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: improving LilyPond useability
2013/12/4 Jacques Menu imj-...@bluewin.ch My recent experience creating choir scores for the first time, one of them with difference words a given stanza in a repeated part (see attachments), makes me think it would help to have off-the-shelf *commented* samples of some size and complexity, as a complement to the existing snippets. Sounds like a good idea. I could add some real-life score examples of my own. Where would you place such material? A new manual, or in an existing one? Janek Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:34:53 +0100 This is an excellent suggestion, examples of small ensembles of various genres suitably authorised by the keepers of the runes would be invaluable to the beginner. These should be as free as possible of tweaks as these will confuse and de-motivate the uninitiated. It would be nice if the invocations of instructions/tweaks could be intuitive - you cannot really say that for most Lily tweaks at present. Lilypond is very tweakable to produce all manner of complicated scores but this power needs to be either sheilded from the beginner whose musical/computational skills may not be up to it or made much more accesible. These are not meant to be critical comments just the observations of a convert with modest skills. regards Peter Gentry ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Extending LilyPond with packages
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:30:19 +0100 From: Janek Warcho? janek.lilyp...@gmail.com I'm very sorry that i don't have time to look closely at LaLily, but from what i see, it's very interesting and a move in the right direction. Probably OrchestralLily (http://kainhofer.com/orchestrallily/Motivation.html#Motivation) would also be worth further investigating. best, Janek I wish I had known about this years ago ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net writes: What exactly is not easy to implement in Joseph Rushton Wakeling's suggestion of an optional frescobaldi install from lilypond's windows installer? That very much provokes the answer Patches welcome, but of course that might already be too optimistic. Patches will be reviewed is somewhat more accurate hopefully. At any rate, why would we treat Windows different from others? Are you familiar with how the build of LilyPond installers is done, or is easy to implement just speculation? How are we going to control the versions selected for downloading? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
Carl, you might also like to keep in mind Lilypond's search rankings while you redesign. A first page listing would bump up traffic considerable, and shouldn't be hard to achieve given that whoever designed lilypond's homepage hasn't given any thought to SE ranking - there's just no relevant text. (might rank well with We are happy/pleased/proud to announce though). google search term: music notation software 1. musescore.org 2. sibelius.com 3. finalemusic.com . 18. lilypond.org google search term: free music notation software 1. musescore.org 2. finalemusic.com 3. noteflight.com . 200 lilypond.org (couldn't find it - I stopped at page 20) Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
2013/12/6 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net Carl, you might also like to keep in mind Lilypond's search rankings while you redesign. A first page listing would bump up traffic considerable, and shouldn't be hard to achieve given that whoever designed lilypond's homepage hasn't given any thought to SE ranking - there's just no relevant text. (might rank well with We are happy/pleased/proud to announce though). :-) google search term: music notation software 1. musescore.org 2. sibelius.com 3. finalemusic.com . 18. lilypond.org google search term: free music notation software 1. musescore.org 2. finalemusic.com 3. noteflight.com . 200 lilypond.org (couldn't find it - I stopped at page 20) This is really bad, I never checked it. These problems should be recorded in our tracker. So far I've seen 2 issues/feature requests: 1. improve SEO 2. associate a different color scheme to each manual This is the list of issues when searching website in our tracker: http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/list?can=2q=websitecolspec=ID+Type+Status+Stars+Owner+Patch+Needs+Summaryx=typecells=tiles A label:Website may be useful? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
strip dynamics for Piano music
Hi,
is it possible somehow, to split contents of a music expression into
two? I am asking for a piano staff which I would enter as follows:
upper = { a4\f g f e\p }
lower = { a,1 }
Then use it with a Dynamics context between the staffs and put the
dynamics there and the rest in the upper staff (with the
self-explaining, non-existant functions \removeDynamics and \dynamicsOnly):
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff \removeDynamics \upper
\new Dynamics \dynamicsOnly \upper
\new Staff \lower
Is that possible? Would it be a good idea? Or should I approach this
differently?
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: Lilypond Website Work
Federico Bruni writes: 2013/12/6 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net Carl, you might also like to keep in mind Lilypond's search rankings while you redesign. This is really bad, I never checked it. 1. improve SEO I guess I'm glad someone notices and seems to care http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-11/msg00258.html at last... Greetings, Jan -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
A side comment, picking up on a comment in the Windows experience thread: I hope the new site will avoid any hooks to Google analytics or other APIs. I'm behind the Great Firewall of China, and I see frequently how Google dependencies cause page loading times to balloon, while the browser waits for blocked connections to time out. This is one of the rare times when I can complain about that problem *before* the problem gets built into yet another website :-) hjh ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
From: David Kastrup d...@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 12:43 PM Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net writes: What exactly is not easy to implement in Joseph Rushton Wakeling's suggestion of an optional frescobaldi install from lilypond's windows installer? That very much provokes the answer Patches welcome, but of course that might already be too optimistic. Yes. Patches will be reviewed is somewhat more accurate hopefully. No. At any rate, why would we treat Windows different from others? Did I suggest that? However, if somethings possible on one platform and not another, do you deny the former because of the latter? Are you familiar with how the build of LilyPond installers is done No or is easy to implement just speculation? Did I say it was easy to implement? How are we going to control the versions selected for downloading? why would you want to select any other version of frescobaldi except the last one? Bundling software products from other companies with Windows Installer is so commonly done, that, although I have never needed to use it, I'm curious as to the difficulties...hence the question. Phil. David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: strip dynamics for Piano music
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
Hi,
is it possible somehow, to split contents of a music expression into
two? I am asking for a piano staff which I would enter as follows:
upper = { a4\f g f e\p }
lower = { a,1 }
Then use it with a Dynamics context between the staffs and put the
dynamics there and the rest in the upper staff (with the
self-explaining, non-existant functions \removeDynamics and \dynamicsOnly):
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff \removeDynamics \upper
\new Dynamics \dynamicsOnly \upper
\new Staff \lower
Is that possible? Would it be a good idea? Or should I approach this
differently?
How about:
\version 2.17.29
upper = { a4\f g f e\p }
lower = { a,1 }
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff
\new Voice \with { \remove Dynamic_engraver } \upper
\new Dynamics \upper
\new Staff \lower
--
David Kastrup
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Re: strip dynamics for Piano music
Am 06.12.2013 14:48, schrieb David Kastrup:
\version 2.17.29
upper = { a4\f g f e\p }
lower = { a,1 }
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff
\new Voice \with { \remove Dynamic_engraver } \upper
\new Dynamics \upper
\new Staff \lower
Hi David,
it looks good, but it does not work for me (2.17.26). The dynamics are
printed twice as if the \remove was not there.
Joram
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Re: Lilypond Website Work
Am 06.12.2013 14:12, schrieb Federico Bruni: These problems should be recorded in our tracker. So far I've seen 2 issues/feature requests: 1. improve SEO 2. associate a different color scheme to each manual I think although not explicitly stated as a feature request the discussion surely yields 3. Clarify first steps/new user experience. Obviously it isn't clear enough what a new user has to expect from a text based notation program. If I follow the trail from the front page I will read a) Introduction. OK, this doesn't tell me anything about how I'd have to work with LilyPond, but that's OK for that page (IMO) b) Features. This is problematic, I think: - The Elegance box is OK, but I'm not sure why this is on a different page than Our Goals on Introduction. - Ease of use. I have several problems with this box - Text based input. Actually this says that you edit text files in an editor. But it does nothing to explain the concept who doesn't know about it already. The input contains all the information, so there is no need to remember complex command sequences: simply save a file for later reference I think this is simply misleading. - Mix music and text is actually a feature but doesn't have to do with Ease of use. - Extensible design with Scheme absolutely doesn't belong to Ease of use. c) Environment - I think the Editors section should be first here. OK, Free Software is important, but I think at least at this point the user should finally be told what kind of tool he is suggested to download: - Currently the Editors section sounds too optional, something like: If you want you also can try alternative editors. The term Easier Editing is suggesting this too. As a new user I'd probably think: OK, I'll come back to this but first I'll give it a try with the built-in editor :-( So: - make it explicit that LilyPond itself doesn't have a GUI and will only process text files it is given. - make it explicit that you have to use an editor for this. - Say that it's part of the beauty of text based tools that you can use _any_ text editor, but that it is highly recommended to use one of the available dedicated GUI programs. - Suggest Denemo and Frescobaldi as appropriate tools (maybe giving a few hints about their characteristics) and say that these tools will take care of installing LilyPond too. This can be quite short but should definitely contain a link to the Text input page. This is actually very useful in our context, but again the section about Easier Editing isn't explicit enough. Somehow this give the impression we're somehow ashamed of something. In any case the message is too weak. The user _has_ to know he's going to use a compiler and needs a programmer's editor for that. (Of course worded less bluntly). ### This isn't a one should post. I'm ready to contribute to this, as long as it is clear that changing contents on this level doesn't interfere with other current ideas of restructuring the web site. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: strip dynamics for Piano music
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
Am 06.12.2013 14:48, schrieb David Kastrup:
\version 2.17.29
upper = { a4\f g f e\p }
lower = { a,1 }
\new PianoStaff
\new Staff
\new Voice \with { \remove Dynamic_engraver } \upper
\new Dynamics \upper
\new Staff \lower
Hi David,
it looks good, but it does not work for me (2.17.26). The dynamics are
printed twice as if the \remove was not there.
Well, what do you expect if you don't specify the version you are using
(by the way: what point is there in using an outdated development
version?)?
In 2.17.26 the engraver is called New_dynamic_engraver instead.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Lilypond Website Work
Urs Liska m...@ursliska.de writes: Am 06.12.2013 14:12, schrieb Federico Bruni: These problems should be recorded in our tracker. So far I've seen 2 issues/feature requests: 1. improve SEO 2. associate a different color scheme to each manual I think although not explicitly stated as a feature request the discussion surely yields 3. Clarify first steps/new user experience. I don't think that this is the same topic. The listed requests are about the web site representation and possible restructuring, but you talk about content details. They may be worth amending, but that's not the Website Work that Carl is thinking about doing. It has nothing to do with website programming. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Symmetrical ties in TieColumn
Karol, On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Karol Majewski karo...@wp.pl wrote: Hi, David Your function for offsetting control-points of a TieColumn is very useful to me. Now it would be great if someone could improve it to make it work with ties over the line break. I'm glad that you find some utility in that function. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to modify it as you ask. I think that the routine in the older thread cited in your first post and \alignTies could be combined by someone wanting to take this on. BTW, I don't recall seeing this notation--is it associated with anyone in particular? --David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: strip dynamics for Piano music
Thanks David Well, what do you expect if you don't specify the version you are using (by the way: what point is there in using an outdated development version?)? laziness and lack of regular use. Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.netwrote: From: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 11:16 AM * why are you out-sourcing tracking (google analytics)? I suppose that when that was decided upon, there may have been no good free alternatives to Google Analytics. But now there is for example Piwik - we're using it for the blog, and i think it's good. Paul, do you think it would be a good fit for lilypond.org? best, Janek AWstats? Webalizer? Just about every web hosting server out there has one or both of these. Here is the question that gets to your question: what are the server-side capabilities of the LilyPond web server? I think one of the issues is that some of these require backend capabilities that may or may not be available. Also, is the code for those compatible where they can be included as part of the project (if that's an issue)? My question: does the lilypond server have PHP capability? If so, I can look at putting together a basic traffic/analytics package. But that's somewhat a down the road issue. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:42 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net writes: The U.S. has the concept of fair use see 17 U.S.C. § 107 But we want LilyPond to be distributable in more than just the U.S.A. Indeed. I am not a legal expert by any stretch (I've just read a lot of stuff on copyright law, between this project and some other related interests of mine). In particular, I would say that anything used should be incontrovertibly in the public domain (i.e., the older, the better). 1) While many jurisdictions recognize the rule of shortest term, this is not a guarantee, particularly if there is a specific agreement between two countries. For instance, I think the U.S. and Germany have a bilateral agreement that says each handles copyright according to its own laws, regardless of the country of origin. 2) As David has implied, Fair Use varies widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, if it exists at all in a jurisdiction. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
- Original Message - From: Carl Peterson Here is the question that gets to your question: what are the server-side capabilities of the LilyPond web server? I think one of the issues is that some of these require backend capabilities that may or may not be available. Also, is the code for those compatible where they can be included as part of the project (if that's an issue)? My question: does the lilypond server have PHP capability? If so, I can look at putting together a basic traffic/analytics package. But that's somewhat a down the road issue. Our server is provided on a goodwill basis, and so we would not want to use any scripting that might load it. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:00 AM, James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com wrote: A side comment, picking up on a comment in the Windows experience thread: I hope the new site will avoid any hooks to Google analytics or other APIs. I'm behind the Great Firewall of China, and I see frequently how Google dependencies cause page loading times to balloon, while the browser waits for blocked connections to time out. This is one of the rare times when I can complain about that problem *before* the problem gets built into yet another website :-) hjh This is one of a number of targets of what I would like to eventually work through, particularly: 1) No external server dependencies. This includes jQuery, external analytics, web font services, or any such things. Each of these are additional calls that make things take longer. I've mentioned on the previous thread that if the server has the capability, I would, at some point, like to look into an internal analytics system. 2) No extraneous file loads. While there will be a separate CSS file (as there is now), I want to eventually eliminate any image file that does not contribute to content. The first victim of this will be the gradient images used for the header and navigation backgrounds. CSS gradients can be coded for fewer bytes and one less server request, with graceful degradation if CSS3 is not available on a browser. Regarding #2, this does not necessarily mean no images. I think we actually need *more* images. However, I think the images that we do have need to be content (examples of music, etc.), not window-dressing. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net wrote: Our server is provided on a goodwill basis, and so we would not want to use any scripting that might load it. I was thinking that was the case. This would be a script that would append all the request headers to a text file on the server, then load the static page and get out of the way. Don't know if that makes a difference, but I completely understand. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:42 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net writes: The U.S. has the concept of fair use see 17 U.S.C. § 107 But we want LilyPond to be distributable in more than just the U.S.A. Indeed. I am not a legal expert by any stretch (I've just read a lot of stuff on copyright law, between this project and some other related interests of mine). In particular, I would say that anything used should be incontrovertibly in the public domain (i.e., the older, the better). There is not such thing as incontrovertibly in the public domain as various governments are shifting the goal posts around retroactively. It is a perversion of the idea of copyright as a means of encouraging the creation of works when copyright extensions are granted after the death of the author since no extension can make him possibly work harder on creating new works for the sake of his heirs after he is already dead. So any extension announced after the death of an author should not apply to the works of an author who labored under different assumptions when creating the work. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
- Original Message - From: Carl Peterson I want to eventually eliminate any image file that does not contribute to content. The first victim of this will be the gradient images used for the header and navigation backgrounds. CSS gradients can be coded for fewer bytes and one less server request, with graceful degradation if CSS3 is not available on a browser. TBH, this is a complete waste of time. The image files are minuscule and affect loading time zilch. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:30 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: So any extension announced after the death of an author should not apply to the works of an author who labored under different assumptions when creating the work. +1 Indeed. That said, if a work is in the public domain, it's in the public domain. So while works created in the U.S. in the 1930s (which would have entered public domain 75 years after creation, if I recall correctly) have had their term extended with the U.S. adopting parts of the Berne Convention, the U.S. Congress cannot go back and grab works created in the 1910s which have passed into public domain. Granted, there could be a major upheaval of copyright that makes this happen, but the chances of this happening at this point seem to be minimal. On the other hand, the major media corporations (Disney being Exhibit A of this issue), may persuade governments to make it so that copyright keeps extending and works *never* pass into public domain. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:30 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: So any extension announced after the death of an author should not apply to the works of an author who labored under different assumptions when creating the work. +1 Indeed. That said, if a work is in the public domain, it's in the public domain. URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_European_Union#Duration_of_protection [...] This provision had the effect of restoring the copyrights in certain works which had entered the public domain in countries with shorter copyright terms.[23] -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work
Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net writes: - Original Message - From: Carl Peterson I want to eventually eliminate any image file that does not contribute to content. The first victim of this will be the gradient images used for the header and navigation backgrounds. CSS gradients can be coded for fewer bytes and one less server request, with graceful degradation if CSS3 is not available on a browser. TBH, this is a complete waste of time. The image files are minuscule and affect loading time zilch. They don't affect the network capacity significantly, but if they are fetched via a different TCP connection on a congested network, they may at times arrive later than other content. So for incrementally rendering browsers, this may occasionally improve flashing of the page updates. And graceful degradation is nice for text browsers. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
- Original Message - From: Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:35 PM Our server is provided on a goodwill basis, and so we would not want to use any scripting that might load it. Carl Perterson wrote: CSS gradients can be coded for fewer bytes and one less server request, with graceful degradation if CSS3 is not available on a browser. TBH, this is a complete waste of time. The image files are minuscule and affect loading time zilch. For every image link in an html page, a browser makes another http request to get that image! You said you want to save server load? Phil. Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:47 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:30 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: So any extension announced after the death of an author should not apply to the works of an author who labored under different assumptions when creating the work. +1 Indeed. That said, if a work is in the public domain, it's in the public domain. URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_European_Union#Duration_of_protection [...] This provision had the effect of restoring the copyrights in certain works which had entered the public domain in countries with shorter copyright terms.[23] Well, that just defies common logic. But that's government and bureaucracy for you. I think my original parenthetical statement---older is better---applies here. It would be much harder to restore copyright all the way back to Canon in D, the Brandenburg Concertos, or Moonlight Sonata, would it not? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
- Original Message - From: Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net To: Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net; Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com; James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com Cc: Mailinglist lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:59 PM Subject: Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience) - Original Message - From: Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:35 PM Our server is provided on a goodwill basis, and so we would not want to use any scripting that might load it. Carl Perterson wrote: CSS gradients can be coded for fewer bytes and one less server request, with graceful degradation if CSS3 is not available on a browser. TBH, this is a complete waste of time. The image files are minuscule and affect loading time zilch. For every image link in an html page, a browser makes another http request to get that image! You said you want to save server load? Phil. Well, yes, as CPU load. I remain of the view that this is not a good use of time - there are other things that will be of greater value for less effort. Remember, you'll not be doing this by editing HTML, but the texi2HTML control files. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
On 05/12/13 21:18, Janek Warchoł wrote: as promised, here are engraving comparisons that i hand out to musicians i meet: What Finale version are you using to generate these examples? I hate to say this, but from my point of view (as a Lilypond user and enthusiast) I think that rather than favouring Lilypond, this rather supports the contention that in general Finale's output is good enough. I presume what you have there is untweaked Finale engraving, and many of the issues you identify are very minor or most likely easily fixed. The only thing that I can see that really irritates and really seems dangerous from a performing perspective is the dot on the dotted 8th notes, whose regular misplacement does create some potentially nasty reading ambiguities. If you want a real comparison, give two expert users -- one of Finale, one of Lilypond -- the same score and give them an hour to engrave as much as they can, with the goal that every single bar they engrave is perfect. Then compare what they achieve. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work (was: A thought on Windows Experience)
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net wrote: Well, yes, as CPU load. I remain of the view that this is not a good use of time - there are other things that will be of greater value for less effort. Remember, you'll not be doing this by editing HTML, but the texi2HTML control files. From looking at the git repo, I was under the impression that changing the background image of the header would be handled by a CSS file, which appears to exist as a monolithic css file in the repo. So that would be a direct edit. That's why the facelift is item #1 on my list, because it requires the least technical knowledge to make happen. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
hideNotes
Hi,
currently \hideNotes does not hide articulations, slurs, ties etc.
Is that on purpose?
{
\hideNotes
a-.\cresc b-\! a?( \parenthesize b) |
a\ ~ a-1 \tuplet 3/2 {a4 a a\f } a4 \glissando a'
}
I would suggest to add this to \hideNotes in ly/property-init.ly and the
corresponding reverts to \unHideNotes:
\override AccidentalCautionary.transparent = ##t
\override Script.transparent = ##t
\override ParenthesesItem.transparent = ##t
\override Slur.transparent = ##t
\override Tie.transparent = ##t
\override LaissezVibrerTie.transparent = ##t
\override RepeatTie.transparent = ##t
\override Glissando.transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket.transparent = ##t
\override TupletNumber.transparent = ##t
\override Fingering.transparent = ##t
It would also make sense to hide dynamics:
\override DynamicText.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicTextSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicLineSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override Hairpin.transparent = ##t
Did I miss something? Clusters probably.
I could not find out how to hide tremolo beams.
Arpeggios can not be hidden, LP crashes with: No Notehead for Appegio
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: hideNotes
Thankfully it does not hide articulations. It seems to be the only way
to make cross staff/cross voice slurs in piano/organ scores. I just
spent several hours yesterday doing just that to six pages of music.
It would be great if there was a simpler way and issue 2411 was
resolved. So the invisible voice trick with visible articulations is
invaluable yet.
Shane
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de wrote:
Hi,
currently \hideNotes does not hide articulations, slurs, ties etc.
Is that on purpose?
{
\hideNotes
a-.\cresc b-\! a?( \parenthesize b) |
a\ ~ a-1 \tuplet 3/2 {a4 a a\f } a4 \glissando a'
}
I would suggest to add this to \hideNotes in ly/property-init.ly and the
corresponding reverts to \unHideNotes:
\override AccidentalCautionary.transparent = ##t
\override Script.transparent = ##t
\override ParenthesesItem.transparent = ##t
\override Slur.transparent = ##t
\override Tie.transparent = ##t
\override LaissezVibrerTie.transparent = ##t
\override RepeatTie.transparent = ##t
\override Glissando.transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket.transparent = ##t
\override TupletNumber.transparent = ##t
\override Fingering.transparent = ##t
It would also make sense to hide dynamics:
\override DynamicText.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicTextSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicLineSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override Hairpin.transparent = ##t
Did I miss something? Clusters probably.
I could not find out how to hide tremolo beams.
Arpeggios can not be hidden, LP crashes with: No Notehead for Appegio
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: hideNotes
- Original Message -
From: Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de
To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 4:21 PM
Subject: hideNotes
Hi,
currently \hideNotes does not hide articulations, slurs, ties etc.
Is that on purpose?
{
\hideNotes
a-.\cresc b-\! a?( \parenthesize b) |
a\ ~ a-1 \tuplet 3/2 {a4 a a\f } a4 \glissando a'
}
I would suggest to add this to \hideNotes in ly/property-init.ly and the
corresponding reverts to \unHideNotes:
\override AccidentalCautionary.transparent = ##t
\override Script.transparent = ##t
\override ParenthesesItem.transparent = ##t
\override Slur.transparent = ##t
\override Tie.transparent = ##t
\override LaissezVibrerTie.transparent = ##t
\override RepeatTie.transparent = ##t
\override Glissando.transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket.transparent = ##t
\override TupletNumber.transparent = ##t
\override Fingering.transparent = ##t
It would also make sense to hide dynamics:
\override DynamicText.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicTextSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override DynamicLineSpanner.transparent = ##t
\override Hairpin.transparent = ##t
Did I miss something? Clusters probably.
I could not find out how to hide tremolo beams.
Arpeggios can not be hidden, LP crashes with: No Notehead for Appegio
Cheers,
Joram
Whether it's deliberate or not, it's very useful. You can use hidden notes
as a starting and ending point for slurs, ties, etc., and thus often
overcome limitations with them moving into or out of voices. Not a good
idea to change this, IMHO.
--
Phil Holmes
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Re: hideNotes
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes: Hi, currently \hideNotes does not hide articulations, slurs, ties etc. Is that on purpose? Yes. \hideNotes is often used for fudging things like cross-voice slurs. If you hide everything _attached_ to the notes, where is the point in using notes at all? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: hideNotes
Am 06.12.2013 17:29, schrieb Shane Brandes: Thankfully it does not hide articulations. It seems to be the only way to make cross staff/cross voice slurs in piano/organ scores. Ok, if this is needed (and it hides notes (only) as it says), how about a similar \hideVoice command that hides all the voice-related objects (as I proposed for \hideNotes before)? My use case are education materials where this is convenient to make the exercises and the solutions with the same score only changing \hideNotes. Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: hideNotes
… and I use the hiding (transparent = ##t) here, because that way the spacing is preserved (in case you wonder why I write the notes there at all). ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: hideNotes
Am 06.12.2013 17:31, schrieb Phil Holmes: - Original Message - From: Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 4:21 PM Subject: hideNotes Hi, currently \hideNotes does not hide articulations, slurs, ties etc. Is that on purpose? ... Whether it's deliberate or not, it's very useful. You can use hidden notes as a starting and ending point for slurs, ties, etc., and thus often overcome limitations with them moving into or out of voices. Not a good idea to change this, IMHO. I find this solution very problematic. http://lilypondblog.org/2013/07/voice-contexts-in-temporary-polyphonic-sections/ shows part of the problem, a post on cross-voice curves has yet to be written. \hideNotes makes the notes _transparent_. This causes them to be invisible but part of the collision avoidance. In particular with notes with flags you'll run into the situation that the slur just doesn't do what you want because it avoids the invisible flag. So in my experience it is generally cleaner to do remove the stencil. At least one should be aware of that issue and explicitly decide whether to hide or remove the items. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
If you want a real comparison, give two expert users -- one of Finale, one of Lilypond -- the same score and give them an hour to engrave as much as they can, with the goal that every single bar they engrave is perfect. Then compare what they achieve. While I think this is a good idea, I have a few reasons to hesitate. We don't want to just promote LilyPond to expert users; wouldn't we want any user to switch over? Any professional can make anything look good. An expert Micro$oft Paint user could probably reproduce the Mona Lisa if given enough time. What LilyPond does better than Finale/Sibelius is more excellent default engraving. How many times have people used Finale and gotten that dreaded last-bar-on-its-own-page problem? I believe the best test would be using ONLY defaults for Finale, Sibelius, and LilyPond to show what the programs can do--not what experienced users can do. - Ryan McClure Music Education Major, Shepherd University Luna Music Engraving www.lunamusicengraving.com -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/engraving-comparisons-and-other-promotional-materials-tp155133p155232.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
I just did a Google search on a computer that I've never used/logged into before. My account was fresh, and I did these searches without any previous history affecting my results: Music notation software Lilypond came in at 25. Free music notation software It came in at 11. Free music typesetting software It was 7. Music typesetting software It's number 1. Just thought I'd share the different results I got. - Ryan McClure Music Education Major, Shepherd University Luna Music Engraving www.lunamusicengraving.com -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-Website-Work-was-A-thought-on-Windows-Experience-tp155110p155236.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
Am 06.12.2013 19:53, schrieb Joseph Rushton Wakeling: I disagree, because the faults of default Finale output are not serious faults if they're quick and easy to fix. Some more aspects to this: How reliably can these faults be fixed? What happens to the fixes if you screw up with a tweak. What if the layout changes because of corrections or a different paper format? How can someone else fix issues in a score? etc. etc. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
agreed, but Ryan stated he was in the U.S. I am in the and therefore have had to deal directly with that code of laws, having knowledge of that useful and interesting bit of the law I mentioned it in the hopes of spurring on discovery of what others might know about the current situation across the globe. Copyright law is as has been pointed out grossly perverted beyond its original useful intent, but how far that madness extends is something unknown to me, not being a lawyer or even for that matter an international lawyer. My point was that at some point examples have to be created that reflect current usage practices and there are ways that can be accomplished without infringement. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:42 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net writes: The U.S. has the concept of fair use see 17 U.S.C. § 107 But we want LilyPond to be distributable in more than just the U.S.A. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
On 06/12/13 20:02, Urs Liska wrote: Some more aspects to this: How reliably can these faults be fixed? What happens to the fixes if you screw up with a tweak. What if the layout changes because of corrections or a different paper format? How can someone else fix issues in a score? etc. etc. Yes, all fair questions. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
From: Ryan McClure ryanmichaelmccl...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 6:59 PM I just did a Google search on a computer that I've never used/logged into before. My account was fresh, and I did these searches without any previous history affecting my results: Music notation software Lilypond came in at 25. Free music notation software It came in at 11. Free music typesetting software It was 7. Music typesetting software It's number 1. Just thought I'd share the different results I got. Ah yes, forgot, I was using google.co.uk when I did that search. Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
From: Ryan McClure ryanmichaelmccl...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 6:59 PM I just did a Google search on a computer that I've never used/logged into before. My account was fresh, and I did these searches without any previous history affecting my results: Music notation software Lilypond came in at 25. Free music notation software It came in at 11. Free music typesetting software It was 7. Music typesetting software It's number 1. Just thought I'd share the different results I got. Ah yes, forgot, I was using google.co.uk when I did that search. Phil. And a correction to my own search (google.co.uk)... free music notation software 9. lilypond.org I thought it was a bit strange that I couldn't find lilypond after 20 pages! Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials
Mr. McClure, On two previous mailings I have extoled the values of Lilypond for the new user (loaded mine this last March), or what might be called its out of the box capabilities. Since installation I have transcribed 20+ piano scores for my own study and use. All of them are crisper than the published version and are more uniformly spaced on the page. Mark -Original Message- From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Ryan McClure Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:59 AM To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Subject: Re: engraving comparisons and other promotional materials While I think this is a good idea, I have a few reasons to hesitate. We don't want to just promote LilyPond to expert users; wouldn't we want any user to switch over? Any professional can make anything look good. An expert Micro$oft Paint user could probably reproduce the Mona Lisa if given enough time. What LilyPond does better than Finale/Sibelius is more excellent default engraving. How many times have people used Finale and gotten that dreaded last-bar-on-its-own-page problem? I believe the best test would be using ONLY defaults for Finale, Sibelius, and LilyPond to show what the programs can do--not what experienced users can do. - Ryan McClure Music Education Major, Shepherd University Luna Music Engraving www.lunamusicengraving.com -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/engraving-comparisons-and-other-promot ional-materials-tp155133p155232.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
Urs, 2013/12/6 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Urs Liska m...@ursliska.de writes: Am 06.12.2013 14:12, schrieb Federico Bruni: These problems should be recorded in our tracker. So far I've seen 2 issues/feature requests: 1. improve SEO 2. associate a different color scheme to each manual I think although not explicitly stated as a feature request the discussion surely yields 3. Clarify first steps/new user experience. I don't think that this is the same topic. The listed requests are about the web site representation and possible restructuring, but you talk about content details. They may be worth amending, but that's not the Website Work that Carl is thinking about doing. It has nothing to do with website programming. David is right, this is a different kind of task - not technical, but creative. And i think it's worth doing; personally i agree with your suggestions. Since this is separate from Carl's work, i think you could start right now and work in parallel to him. For starters, create a patch with a set of most obvious changes - it should go through easily, and i'll gladly review it! best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Website Work
Am 06.12.2013 21:26, schrieb Janek Warchoł: Urs, 2013/12/6 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Urs Liska m...@ursliska.de writes: I think although not explicitly stated as a feature request the discussion surely yields 3. Clarify first steps/new user experience. I don't think that this is the same topic. The listed requests are about the web site representation and possible restructuring, but you talk about content details. They may be worth amending, but that's not the Website Work that Carl is thinking about doing. It has nothing to do with website programming. David is right, this is a different kind of task - not technical, but creative. And i think it's worth doing; personally i agree with your suggestions. Since this is separate from Carl's work, i think you could start right now and work in parallel to him. For starters, create a patch with a set of most obvious changes - it should go through easily, and i'll gladly review it! OK, I'll review the entry path again - more closely and concretely - and will think about an outline. Once that's finished I'll decide whether to create a patch directly or put that outline up for discussion first. Urs best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Gittip (and Supporting my work on LilyPond financially)
On 12/02/2013 02:03 AM, Paul Morris wrote: I have been keeping my eye on Gittip. It's basically a tool that lets individuals make ongoing weekly payments to other individuals (or organizations) to support whatever work they do. It happens that more often than not this is volunteer work on free/open-source software. What really makes it compelling is that Gittip does not make any money off of the transactions that go through it. They only charge a minimal fee to cover their own transaction costs (credit card fees). Gittip is itself funded by voluntary donations made through Gittip. The code that runs Gittip is in the public domain and hosted on Github. I'm not affiliated with Gittip, I'm just really interested and intrigued by its potential. I've often thought that it would make sense for projects like LilyPond/Frescobaldi/etc. After my own initial curiosity and Paul's words above I have now created an account on Gittip. On 12/05/2013 10:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote: The thought if everybody contributed just a little seems compelling. It's actually my experience that those who pledge to contribute a monthly payment less than €10 tend to stop after few months, probably because they think it does not make a difference. David, would you consider joining me? I think it would mean that it will be easier in general for people to set up a monthly payment (for LilyPonds future development). Anyway, it could perhaps attract some new people both to LilyPond itself and to its funding. (But it seems that it's more convenient to withdraw the money if you have an US bank account.) Best Peter ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
lilypond.org Pondings
Hi, I always was subconciously aware of the fact that there are quite few and repeated Pondings on the lilypond.org entry page. Now I found them in the LilyPond Git repository and noticed that there really are _only three_ different items! Come on, it's not possible that the LilyPond community has so little to offer in terms of projects. Step out of the dark and tell the world what we do! Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
Urs Liska wrote Hi, I always was subconciously aware of the fact that there are quite few and repeated Pondings on the lilypond.org entry page. Now I found them in the LilyPond Git repository and noticed that there really are _only three_ different items! Come on, it's not possible that the LilyPond community has so little to offer in terms of projects. Step out of the dark and tell the world what we do! Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@ https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user What is the official definition of a ponding? - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-org-Pondings-tp155249p155251.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
Am 06.12.2013 22:51, schrieb SoundsFromSound: Urs Liska wrote Hi, What is the official definition of a ponding? http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-04/msg00533.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
2013/12/6 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net: What exactly is not easy to implement in Joseph Rushton Wakeling's suggestion of an optional frescobaldi install from lilypond's windows installer? Well, i'm not familiar with this area, but keep in mind that one has to find a free, open-source solution that works for every platform we support (Win, Mac, various Unixes) and can be automated. It's not enough to go and create one installer - we need software that would recreate such installer, without manual intervention, for every release. If you could look into this and implement it (at least a proof-of-concept), that would be very welcome! best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
Hi all, Come on, it's not possible that the LilyPond community has so little to offer in terms of projects. Step out of the dark and tell the world what we do! Tomorrow, MSU's Home For the Holidays spectacular will include around over 330 musicians singing over 25 minutes of Lilypond-engraved music (composed and/or arranged by yours truly). I also gave a kick-butt Lilypond sales pitch at the composition seminar I taught this afternoon — the professors and students were extremely impressed with the output, the algorithmic possibilities, and some of the tricks I showed them (like polymetrics). K. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reducing horizontal spacing
My goal is to reduce the horizontal spacing so that I fit four measures
per system instead of two.
Unfortunately I can't work out where the override statement is supposed
to go. I've tried mimicking the locations shown in the documentation but
they all give errors for my score.
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/changing-spacing
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/the-override-command
See attached for my score.
David
\version 2.14.0
tune = \relative c' {
\clef treble
\key c \major
\time 8/1
% prevent bar number display on the second line
\set Score.barNumberVisibility = #(every-nth-bar-number-visible 100)
\override SpacingSpanner.common-shortest-duration = #(ly:make-moment 1/2)
d1^\markup{\large{\bold{1. Dorian}}}_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} e f g a b_\markup{\large{*}} c d
e,^\markup{\large{\bold{3. Phrygian}}}_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} f g a b c d e
f,^\markup{\large{\bold{5. Lydian}}}_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} g a b_\markup{\large{*}} c d e f
g,^\markup{\large{\bold{7. Mixolydian}}}_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} a b c d e f g
\break
a,,^\markup{\large{\bold{2. Hypodorian}}} b_\markup{\large{*}} c d_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} e f g a
b,^\markup{\large{\bold{4. Hypophrygian}}} c d e_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} f g a b
c,^\markup{\large{\bold{6. Hypolydian}}} d e f_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} g a b_\markup{\large{*}} c
d,^\markup{\large{\bold{8. Hypomixolydian}}} e f g_\markup{\large{\bold{f}}} a b c d
}
#(set-default-paper-size letter 'landscape)
#(set-global-staff-size 22)
\score {
\new Staff \with { \remove Time_signature_engraver} { \tune }
\layout { }
}
\markup{\large{* Under certain conditions, the B is flatted in modes 1, 2, 5, and 6.}}
\paper { indent = 0\mm }___
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Re: Reducing horizontal spacing
2013/12/7 David Bolton davidkbol...@gmail.com: My goal is to reduce the horizontal spacing so that I fit four measures per system instead of two. Unfortunately I can't work out where the override statement is supposed to go. I've tried mimicking the locations shown in the documentation but they all give errors for my score. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/changing-spacing http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/the-override-command See attached for my score. It didn't work because you haven't specified appropriate context - SpacingSpanner lives in the Score context. And by the way, why are you using documentation for versions 2.16 and 2.17 while the file is marked as 2.14? This looks like a bad idea. best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
